Editorial Jeff Vogel hates Ultima IV

[MisterStone]

VOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Norfleet]

Vogel's always been a troll. It's in his earliest writings from before he even developed anything. I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Luzur]

just another Bizarro Vogel blog.

 

[Zeus]

Vogel's always been a troll. It's in his earliest writings from before he even developed anything. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Where the heck did you find pre-game Vogel rants? Did you stumble across old USEnet posts or something?

 

[Lomm Cuz]

I spend all my gaming time with my XBox 360 or PS3. (Or, on increasingly rare occasions, my Wii.)

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

 

[Silellak]

I spend all my gaming time with my XBox 360 or PS3. (Or, on increasingly rare occasions, my Wii.)

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

I wonder how many people know where that image came from or realize that it's being used sarcastically.

 

[waywardOne]

i agree that, from a how-do-i-play-this perspective, old games make me want to rip my fingers off. i also admit to having gotten spoiled by in-game tooltips and journals that save me hundreds of post-it notes on my desk and monitor.

i disagree with this, especially: "Ultima IV had an epic quest and morality woven into the game, which was amazing at the time. But everyone does those things way better now."

i'd love to know which games, and i'll need at least 20 examples since "everyone" does it.

clearly vogel is fat.

 

[Sceptic]

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

To be honest I don't really blame him specifically for this. When you spend most of your waking time in front of a computer making a computer-exclusive game, I can understand that, when it comes time to let steam off, the last thing you'd want to do is spend MORE time in front of the computer. Moving out of the office and to the living room, turning on the console then slumping onto the couch is by far more preferable. As much as I love my PC gaming there have been many times where I just did not want to sit at my PC for my fun, and I spend less a tenth of my working time on it. The retardo kicks in specifically because of the arguments he uses to diss PC games, especially older ones ("Hi Jeff, have you taken some time off your games to actually PLAY them? no? good, please make sure you never do").

I wonder how many people know where that image came from or realize that it's being used sarcastically.

To be honest I find this image to be a wonderful double-irony. It may have beem meant as sarcasm against PC gaming because it's too "elite", but not only does it turn out to be more accurate than its makers thought, it also makes us feel justified about the elitism. Morale of the story: be careful what you're being sarcastic about.

 

[Jaesun]

What.The.Fuck. Sceptic?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

He has a 360, a PS3, a Wii and a PC. I imagine he doesn't give a shit about system wars.

 

[Twinkle]

I spend all my gaming time with my XBox 360 or PS3. (Or, on increasingly rare occasions, my Wii.)

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

I wonder how many people know where that image came from or realize that it's being used sarcastically.

Hint: it appeared in the review of one of the most love-hated games here, which was ironically accused of being a JRPG.

 

[Sceptic]

He has a 360, a PS3, a Wii and a PC. I imagine he doesn't give a shit about system wars.

I hope it's Vogel you're talking about...

What.The.Fuck. Sceptic?

What? I said I can understand he wouldn't want to spend more time on his PC. I also said sometimes I don't want to spend more time on my PC, but I did not say that I go play on consoles instead... don't worry I'm still on your side

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS ULTIMA 4 IS SO EASY TO GET INTO AND HAS A BEAUTIFUL INTERFACE WITH NO LEARNING CURVER I JUST DONT KNOW WHY DUMBFUCK VVOIGEL POPAMOLE DOGFUCKER SHITCOJNASKDFJBNLA;SJ OLD GAMES WERE EASIER TO LEARN AND EASIER TO GET INTO HORSECUM

 

[Azrael the cat]

Good developer makes retarded comments about games. In other news, Avellone says something retarded about PS:T and in an amazing turn of events the Israel/Palestine peace process is not yet resolved.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

To be honest I don't really blame him specifically for this. When you spend most of your waking time in front of a computer making a computer-exclusive game, I can understand that, when it comes time to let steam off, the last thing you'd want to do is spend MORE time in front of the computer. Moving out of the office and to the living room, turning on the console then slumping onto the couch is by far more preferable. As much as I love my PC gaming there have been many times where I just did not want to sit at my PC for my fun, and I spend less a tenth of my working time on it. The retardo kicks in specifically because of the arguments he uses to diss PC games, especially older ones ("Hi Jeff, have you taken some time off your games to actually PLAY them? no? good, please make sure you never do").
.

Plus there's the time-old phenomenon that game developers view games in a fundamentally different way to non-developers, and often have tastes that seem utterly bizarre compared to their own products. They like the stuff they don't/can't make themselves, because they aren't approaching it while thinking 'is this fun', but rather 'how would you make this? How does it work?'. I've noticed the same thing in writers, musicians and painters - some of the folks with the best work like the most retarded stuff. That's why I'm far from certain that Cain was being sarcastic when he listed Oblivion as the best crpg of the 2000s - it did what he was never able to do: make fuckloads of money.

Reminds me of a 3d animator / designer I know who specialises in making CGI for TV/films/ads and occasionally games. Smart guy, great knowledge of the arts, was a stage actor for a while and knows his classics in literature, film and stage. Before he went into CGI professionally, his favourite crpgs were fallout and PS:T, favourite game was System Shock 2, and had played the RoA, Wizardry and Ultima series when they came out. But by the time Mass Effect came out, he was doing CGI professionally and was utterly convinced (and still is) that Mass Effect is the greatest game ever made. When you manage to extract why, it just seems that he was so blown away by how it achieved the 'cinematic feel', and little nuances in the way faces were done, that every other aspect of the game (the textures, the dialogue and, well, the fucking gameplay) just seemed irrelevant to him.

I suspect that's very common. I've known a couple of musos who have had some limited commercial success - won't namedrop, but they had a couple of UK top 20s before fading into obscurity. You get them to listen to ANY piece of music, and because they're into electronica and guitar every other piece of the song seems invisible. Doesn't matter how repetitive the vocals or how plain shit the song is, they'll latch on to some aspect of it and go 'holy shit, how did they do that', and declare it fucking awesome.

It's why in the golden era of stage, papers ensured that film and theatre critics weren't 'wannabe' or 'washed up' actors/directors/script-writers. It might 'sound' like a good idea to have someone 'in the business' do the review, but they are coming from a very different perspective than the general audience, or even a narrow audience segment made up of people who liked the reviewer's film/stage work. A good reviewer/critic ought to be from the audience and on the side of the audience. The last person whose opinions I'd trust about a game would be someone who makes games.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO AZREAL THAT IS SOME GOOD SHIT

BUT P[EARLS BEFORE SWINER OR POPAMOLE BEFORE RETARDS OR SOME SHIT

LLOLLOLLOLLOL TO BE MORE BROLIKE EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE AQ PC AS THERED MAIN ENTERRTAINMENT CENTER BRO THAT IS HOW TRUE ELITE BROS DO IT CONSOLEFAGS WITH THERE FAGGOT COMPUTERS ON A FAGGOT DESK LOLLOLLOL

 

[Clockwork Knight]

He has a 360, a PS3, a Wii and a PC. I imagine he doesn't give a shit about system wars.

I hope it's Vogel you're talking about...

Uh..yeah! Vogel. There's no need to search for hidden cameras in your room. Really.

Spoiler

not yet

 

[The Vanished One]

Hint: it appeared in the review of one of the most love-hated games here, which was ironically accused of being a JRPG.

It was accused of being a MMORPG actually.

My personal opinion is that Yahtzee was rather unprofessional in that review, and he should have played the game more. It's true that there's a lot of running around doing fetch quests in Chapter I of The Witcher but while anyone is entitled to drop a game if they think it should be immediatly good, a reviewer should finish it. Or at least go one third/halfway through if it's a "first impressions".
Besides, one gets the impression that he just can't stand even a moderately complex character building system.
The fake Painkiller dub at the end was great fun though.
Anyway, I agree that the master race picture, though used satirically in the review, is great on its own to make the opposite point. An example of using criticism to one's advantage. Remember how Daft Punk got their name?

 

[Luzur]

I spend all my gaming time with my XBox 360 or PS3. (Or, on increasingly rare occasions, my Wii.)

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

I wonder how many people know where that image came from or realize that it's being used sarcastically.

its still true.

and i think the sarcasm has evaporated long since.

 

[zeitgeist]

My personal opinion is that Yahtzee was rather unprofessional in that review, and he should have played the game more. It's true that there's a lot of running around doing fetch quests in Chapter I of The Witcher but while anyone is entitled to drop a game if they think it should be immediatly good, a reviewer should finish it.

But he's not a reviewer, he's an internet comedian.

 

[The Vanished One]

But he's not a reviewer, he's an internet comedian.

There's such thing as being both funny and accurate. Here's a better example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJarz7BYnHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBhi6qqFLA

 

[Twinkle]

It was accused of being a MMORPG actually.

I'm not talking about Yahtzee here.

 

[Achilles]

I spend all my gaming time with my XBox 360 or PS3. (Or, on increasingly rare occasions, my Wii.)

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

I wonder how many people know where that image came from or realize that it's being used sarcastically.

its still true.

Indeed. It may have been used sarcastically at that point, but Yahtzee has pointed out the dumbing down of games many times. Watch his Bioshock review and you'll see what I mean:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/4-BioShock

 

[Elzair]

Somebody needs a big cup of shut the fuck up.

To be honest I don't really blame him specifically for this. When you spend most of your waking time in front of a computer making a computer-exclusive game, I can understand that, when it comes time to let steam off, the last thing you'd want to do is spend MORE time in front of the computer. Moving out of the office and to the living room, turning on the console then slumping onto the couch is by far more preferable. As much as I love my PC gaming there have been many times where I just did not want to sit at my PC for my fun, and I spend less a tenth of my working time on it. The retardo kicks in specifically because of the arguments he uses to diss PC games, especially older ones ("Hi Jeff, have you taken some time off your games to actually PLAY them? no? good, please make sure you never do").
.

Plus there's the time-old phenomenon that game developers view games in a fundamentally different way to non-developers, and often have tastes that seem utterly bizarre compared to their own products. They like the stuff they don't/can't make themselves, because they aren't approaching it while thinking 'is this fun', but rather 'how would you make this? How does it work?'. I've noticed the same thing in writers, musicians and painters - some of the folks with the best work like the most retarded stuff. That's why I'm far from certain that Cain was being sarcastic when he listed Oblivion as the best crpg of the 2000s - it did what he was never able to do: make fuckloads of money.

Reminds me of a 3d animator / designer I know who specialises in making CGI for TV/films/ads and occasionally games. Smart guy, great knowledge of the arts, was a stage actor for a while and knows his classics in literature, film and stage. Before he went into CGI professionally, his favourite crpgs were fallout and PS:T, favourite game was System Shock 2, and had played the RoA, Wizardry and Ultima series when they came out. But by the time Mass Effect came out, he was doing CGI professionally and was utterly convinced (and still is) that Mass Effect is the greatest game ever made. When you manage to extract why, it just seems that he was so blown away by how it achieved the 'cinematic feel', and little nuances in the way faces were done, that every other aspect of the game (the textures, the dialogue and, well, the fucking gameplay) just seemed irrelevant to him.

I suspect that's very common. I've known a couple of musos who have had some limited commercial success - won't namedrop, but they had a couple of UK top 20s before fading into obscurity. You get them to listen to ANY piece of music, and because they're into electronica and guitar every other piece of the song seems invisible. Doesn't matter how repetitive the vocals or how plain shit the song is, they'll latch on to some aspect of it and go 'holy shit, how did they do that', and declare it fucking awesome.

It's why in the golden era of stage, papers ensured that film and theatre critics weren't 'wannabe' or 'washed up' actors/directors/script-writers. It might 'sound' like a good idea to have someone 'in the business' do the review, but they are coming from a very different perspective than the general audience, or even a narrow audience segment made up of people who liked the reviewer's film/stage work. A good reviewer/critic ought to be from the audience and on the side of the audience. The last person whose opinions I'd trust about a game would be someone who makes games.

Wow Azrael the Cat! You hit the nail right on the head!

 

[Gragt]

My personal opinion is that Yahtzee was rather unprofessional in that review, [...]

Was he ever professional?