Josh Sawyer Q&A Thread

[Flying Dutchman]

Fallout 2 was as bad as New Vegas when it came out and arguably worse

Is there a list of those still there?

The big clue of burn out without any passion was Sawyer not caring enough to be part of Avowed, it felt like a big "fuck you even I don't like the shit world I made" but that was him cutting his own throat with his own design

Sorry, hated Pillars 1 and hated Pillars 2 for different reasons and do not care if the tabletop rules he is never going to finish ever see the light of day - the new game he is working on might be interesting but I doubt it

That's kind of harsh. The tabletop Pillars RPG keeps him away from the actual games, at least.

As for avoiding Avowed, that's his business if he doesn't want to keep working in his own world, it might mean someone else makes it fun to play or worth engaging with (I agree Pillars 2 wasn't worth engaging with). Also, this is just from the trailer, but Avowed looks boring and generic as shit, at least Pillars 2 had half-assed pirate gameplay that stood out.

I find it even more amazing (and it must require some unique skill) to quantify what's wrong with Pillars 1, try to fix everything you think is broken in Pillars 2, and end up with an arguably worse game as a result of your attempts to "improve" it. Participation award, for sure.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Can't you blame him, i think when they failing metacritic bonus for FNV that leads to layoff really not just affecting him but their company as whole.

Imagine putting their maximum effort on it but only to meet a failure and putting their company at risk. So i can understand from their perspective to never bring themselves to put an overambitious and overachiever game design ever again if only that it even more failures and putting their company at risk of bankruptcy.

And that's why i don't think Sawyer or Obsidian as whole will ever change again for better because of that experience that leads them to decline of their quality post FNV.

Was the FNV metacritic bonus the reason for layoffs? [Citation Needed]

I thought it was Sawyer's handling of the old Microsoft project that got that project shitcanned and then the layoffs happened - but Sawyer seemed to survive the layoffs while the rest of the team got the axe.

Arguably, it was their own fault for missing the bonus by 1%, find it hard to blame Bethesda when FNV could have definitely done with less content and more bug-fixing.

 

[Roguey]

The bonus didn't mean anything, but the "avoid being bugsidian" mindset is company-wide, not just a Sawyer thing.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Sawyer will never get fired. According to MCA, for whatever reason Feargus loves him. Most likely Sawyer just knows how to speak to him properly and manipulate him, etc.

I don't think Metacritic was reason for the layoffs. But that was Feargus more and less anyone else. Feargus agreed to the metacritic score. He should have spent more $$ early on to get some good QA going before launch rather than being a cheap cunt. Then he would have gotten the cash.
Additionally, he could have simply done what everyone else does and paid for a bunch of reviews. That shit was what eventually got me done with Obsidian.

Perpetual victim syndrome.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Arguably, it was their own fault for missing the bonus by 1%, find it hard to blame Bethesda when FNV could have definitely done with less content and more bug-fixing.

The alleged bad-blood between the two companies stems primarily from the implication alluded to by various devs that it was Bethesda, not Obsidian, who was contractually responsible for QA. Some people have taken this as evidence that Bethesda intentionally skimped on QA in order to not have to pay Obsidian their bonus, although that has always struck me as a bit tinfoil-hat.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Arguably, it was their own fault for missing the bonus by 1%, find it hard to blame Bethesda when FNV could have definitely done with less content and more bug-fixing.

The alleged bad-blood between the two companies stems primarily from the implication alluded to by various devs that it was Bethesda, not Obsidian, who was contractually responsible for QA. Some people have taken this as evidence that Bethesda intentionally skimped on QA in order to not have to pay Obsidian their bonus, although that has always struck me as a bit tinfoil-hat.

It's still Obsidian's fault in this scenario.
lmao at relying on bethesda for QA

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Arguably, it was their own fault for missing the bonus by 1%, find it hard to blame Bethesda when FNV could have definitely done with less content and more bug-fixing.

The alleged bad-blood between the two companies stems primarily from the implication alluded to by various devs that it was Bethesda, not Obsidian, who was contractually responsible for QA. Some people have taken this as evidence that Bethesda intentionally skimped on QA in order to not have to pay Obsidian their bonus, although that has always struck me as a bit tinfoil-hat.

It's still Obsidian's fault in this scenario.
lmao at relying on bethesda for QA

? Because clearly their product and business reputation would have come out much better if they had gone into the relationship with the attitude of "We assume that you, the entity pretty much subsidizing our company's existence at the moment, are completely incompetent and/or total fucking liars"?

That seems either incredibly naive or incredibly cynical.

 

[LizardWizard]

It's still Obsidian's fault in this scenario.
lmao at relying on bethesda for QA

You're acting like Obsidian had a choice. 18 month dev cycle.

New Vegas is honestly a fucking miracle

 

[Wunderbar]

It's still Obsidian's fault in this scenario.
lmao at relying on bethesda for QA

You're acting like Obsidian had a choice. 18 month dev cycle.

Todd: - let's talk about development length and deadlines.
Todd, thinking to himself - "gonna give them a ridiculously short timeframe to create some space for negotiation, they will probably ask for more and we will end with around 2 or 2 and half years"
Todd: - is 18 months enough?
Feargus: - YES

 

[LizardWizard]

Feargus: - YES

Beggars can't be choosers

Publishers generally handle QA cost

 

[Roguey]

Some people have taken this as evidence that Bethesda intentionally skimped on QA in order to not have to pay Obsidian their bonus, although that has always struck me as a bit tinfoil-hat.

Fargo said Bethesda moved the release date up. Anthony Davis once coyly shared an anecdote about that scene from Empire Strikes Back when Darth Vader changed the deal with Lando. Avellone wants to take full responsibility, but he's also a loser who hates himself and Feargus and willing to turn blame inward first.

 

[S.torch]

Avellone wants to take full responsibility

Wasn't Sawyer the Director of New Vegas?

 

[Kazuki]

You're acting like Obsidian had a choice. 18 month dev cycle.

New Vegas is honestly a fucking miracle

Obsidian always had a choice, including to refuse a contract with questionable clause that will bite them in the ass down to line if that didn't fulfilled.

Also 18 month dev cycle with Bethesda engine and reusing alot of Fallout 3 asset isn't that miracle come to think of it, Josh Sawyer said that Bethesda Engine is the easiest to work with compare with other game engine he worked on. But because it's their first time using that engine, they didn't know the limitation resulting a probably one of the buggiest Obsidian game on release.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Obsidian always had a choice, including to refuse a contract with questionable clause that will bite them in the ass down to line if that didn't fulfilled.

Yes clearly they should have taken the moral high-road and just let the 40-50 people go they couldn't afford without signing a contract.

 

[Kazuki]

Yes clearly they should have taken the moral high-road and just let the 40-50 people go they couldn't afford without signing a contract.

It's still a choice, even if that a bad one.

Who knows back then, if they refuse FNV contract. Alpha Protocol could be a major hit resulting financial stability and prestige to company.

We never knew.

 

[Roguey]

Wasn't Sawyer the Director of New Vegas?

Yes, and Avellone personally blames Sawyer for the bugs because he insisted on forcing the programmers to get his pet features working (ammo crafting, looping reload animations) over dropping them immediately as soon as they proved non-trivial to implement and focus on improving game stability.

 

[Sannom]

Arguably, it was their own fault for missing the bonus by 1%, find it hard to blame Bethesda when FNV could have definitely done with less content and more bug-fixing.

Considering that Bethesda's business model for Fallout and The Elder Scrolls is pretty much "more content, less bug-fixing", I wouldn't dismiss their influence on that count.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Wasn't Sawyer the Director of New Vegas?

Yes, and Avellone personally blames Sawyer for the bugs because he insisted on forcing the programmers to get his pet features working (ammo crafting, looping reload animations) over dropping them immediately as soon as they proved non-trivial to implement and focus on improving game stability.

Is that actually true or is it BS?
If it's true, it means Sawyer bears a LOT more responsibility than I thought previously.

 

[Ol' Willy]

How much assets FNV shares with Fagout 3?

For comparison, there is a Fallout 2 mod on New Vegas foundation currently in development (by whom, take a guess). This guys are not very fond of Shittesda half-assed models of various scenery and weapons and try to replace them all according to the original.

Spoiler

Don't get too excited though, this thing will not be finished until much later.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I might not be allowed to get excited, but I am liking that look.

 

[Gordian Nutt]

Yes, and Avellone personally blames Sawyer for the bugs because he insisted on forcing the programmers to get his pet features working (ammo crafting, looping reload animations) over dropping them immediately as soon as they proved non-trivial to implement and focus on improving game stability.

Edit: And Caravan

This is like Icewind Dale 2 on repeat, although Dale was more stable if I remember correctly but Sawyer was in charge of that too

I believe IWD2 programmers were also worked to death to update the D&D ruleset which no one cared about except Sawyer

Someone said autistic which might be unfair but strange choices are insisted on which is fine if there is time to do them - 18 months is not one of those times and IWD2 was not one of those times either if remembering correctly considering how bad Black Isle was suffering

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Someone said autistic which might be unfair

 

[Butter]

I believe IWD2 programmers were also worked to death to update the D&D ruleset which no one cared about except Sawyer

WotC probably cared. They've got this funny trait of trying to sell the current edition instead of old editions.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Yeah, I believe I’ve seen statements that “no one on the dev-team cared about it besides Josh”, but I’m also fairly certain it was mandated by WotC, so IWD2 isn’t the greatest example.

I think MCA may also have been annoyed that Ulysses/bunch of CL content was cut, but all of Josh’s pet stuff like caravan, gun mods, ammo types stayed in (which is a fair thing to annoyed about imo).

 

[Voids]

Josh really likes bikes, doesn't he