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Arcanum Journey to the center of Arcanum concept pitch

eric__s

ass hater
Developer
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Jun 13, 2011
Messages
2,301
Got to say, since the man is here himself: Well done on the switcheroo with Arronax, signposted throughout the game and so obvious in hindsight, but I genuinely was oblivious until I found Arronax. Few games that get one over on me like that, especially when its so well hinted at.
I never understood this, actually. When you're going to the Wheel Clan from the Isle of Despair, you get interrupted by that apparition that says it's Arronax and then it's just never mentioned again. Why would that happen? Why would Kerghan say he was Arronax? To throw you off? I don't know, that one scene felt very strange to me.
 

SionIV

Cipher
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590
Czapki z głów
Hats off

Tim jest mistrzem w moderów trollingu
Tim is a master at trolling modders

Mówię tylko prawdę.
I'm just saying the truth.

Every codexer should know his google translator.
 
Weasel
Joined
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Messages
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And every Codexer should know the previous posting history of Temple of Elemental Kurwa :salute:
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
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Jul 10, 2013
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14,251
He's an RPGCodex national treasure
 

Murk

Arcane
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Jan 17, 2008
Messages
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I never understood this, actually. When you're going to the Wheel Clan from the Isle of Despair, you get interrupted by that apparition that says it's Arronax and then it's just never mentioned again. Why would that happen? Why would Kerghan say he was Arronax? To throw you off? I don't know, that one scene felt very strange to me.

It is, I believe, to get the Dark Elves to help him in coming to this side (they are the ones responsible for banishing the BMC Dwarves who then build the dimensional device.)

It's also feeds into the theme that the prophecy, whether it's real or fake, takes on a life of its own by people simply believing in it -- becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 

Xor

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Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
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I never understood this, actually. When you're going to the Wheel Clan from the Isle of Despair, you get interrupted by that apparition that says it's Arronax and then it's just never mentioned again. Why would that happen? Why would Kerghan say he was Arronax? To throw you off? I don't know, that one scene felt very strange to me.
Well, from a narrative standpoint, I believe it's the first real evidence that "Arronax" actually is real, and he is coming back and needs to be stopped, so it helps nudge the player in the direction of the main plot. From a story perspective, though, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Kerghan to show up and taunt the player, unless he actually wanted the player to get involved with the dark elves and eventually be banished to the void.

Maybe TimCain can give some insight?
 

Neanderthal

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Made sense to me for a few reasons in retrospect:

1. He wanted to know if you'd heard owt from Stennar, about who he was and whether his deception was successful or if he'd been discovered, this was answered by the protagonist.

2. He might very well have feared Nasrudin, and wanted to see whether he truly had been reborn, considering what the old dude did in his youth you can understand Kerghan being wary. He grills you over this pretty openly.

3. Getting rid of the Darkl Elves, it's perfectly possible that he wanted them taking out of the picture, they'd served their uses and were best disposed of. You can imagine how pissed they'd have been when the first human member of the Elven Council and their beloved masters greatest enemy stepped forth from the void, and Kan Hua was a powerful beggar no doubt.

4. Test the bounds of how much of himself he was able to project into Arcanum, and how much power he could manifest. Fair bit by look on it.
 

szmotsu

Barely Literate
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
1
Arcanum story wasn't the best IMO, but other things like gameplay and "feeling" was Grade A.

@Drog i have question to you about translating Arcanum (with UAP etc). May we speak by priv?
 
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Roguey

Codex Staff
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Joined
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Messages
31,754
Another combatfag detected. Gameplay doesn't equal combat, FFS.

What was Arcanum's "gameplay" and how is it different from Telltale's/Gone Home/Life is Strange/Her Story "gameplay."
 
Joined
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Messages
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Another combatfag detected. Gameplay doesn't equal combat, FFS.

What was Arcanum's "gameplay" and how is it different from Telltale's/Gone Home/Life is Strange/Her Story "gameplay."
Gone Home/Her Story have no gameplay at all you either walk or watch dvds you dumbfuck. Telltale games/Life is Strange are shitty cinematics with QTE and illusory C&C. None of that shit is in Arcanum

Arcanum had robust and useful as fuck crafting from herbalism to blacksmithing, gambling and riddles, stealth , pick pocketing, deep magic system letting you teleport,charm or talk to people you killed. Quests that could be solved by being smart and perceptive. It wasnt just either fight them or talk your way out of it.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Arcanum had robust and useful as fuck crafting from herbalism to blacksmithing,

Crafting isn't gameplay. It's a system that feeds into gameplay (combat).

gambling and riddles,

As I recall, gambling in Arcanum was just a single win/loss check. I don't remember riddles, except for the adventure gamey puzzle near the end.

stealth , pick pocketing,

The stealth was bad, stealing items was once again a pass/fail check.

deep magic system letting you teleport,charm or talk to people you killed.

Not gameplay.

Quests that could be solved by being smart and perceptive. It wasnt just either fight them or talk your way out of it.

You mean giving your character enough points in intelligence and perception allows you to choose a win-button dialogue option (not gameplay).
 

likaq

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
1,198
The stealth was bad

deep magic system letting you teleport,charm or talk to people you killed.
Not gameplay.

This is new low even for you.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,233
Arcanum had robust and useful as fuck crafting from herbalism to blacksmithing,

Crafting isn't gameplay. It's a system that feeds into gameplay (combat).

gambling and riddles,

As I recall, gambling in Arcanum was just a single win/loss check. I don't remember riddles, except for the adventure gamey puzzle near the end.

stealth , pick pocketing,

The stealth was bad, stealing items was once again a pass/fail check.

deep magic system letting you teleport,charm or talk to people you killed.

Not gameplay.

Quests that could be solved by being smart and perceptive. It wasnt just either fight them or talk your way out of it.

You mean giving your character enough points in intelligence and perception allows you to choose a win-button dialogue option (not gameplay).
1. And none of games you mentioned have that kind of system. Shit you could craft in Arcanum was usefull outside of combat like Auto Skeleton Key or Eye Gear.

2. You could gamble for more expensive items with higher ranks in gambling. Isnt gambling in real life a simple pass/fail check?

3. No it wasnt. Was as "good" as in Fallout/IE games or PoE. Stealth/Stealing is always pass/fail check you dumbfuck. Better rank in PP allowed you to get caught only on critical failure, steal bigger items without penalties or plant items on npc

4. Not gameplay :notsureifserious: Yes, killing quest related NPC and than raising him from dead to coerce him into giving me answers i needed to solve the quest and all that thanks to a spell i learned is not gameplay at all. GTFO retard

5. No i mean shit like playing dumb bitch with high beauty and having sexy dress gives +100 to npc reactions or playing sorcerer with no persuasion skills at all but still dominating everybody with spells or using Tarant Hall of Records to solve quests. Yep simply a win-button :lol:
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Sawyerite
Joined
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Messages
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1. And none of games you mentioned have that kind of system. Shit you could craft in Arcanum was usefull outside of combat like Auto Skeleton Key or Eye Gear.

A slightly-better lockpick and a buff-item that gives you +2 to perception. :hmmm:

2. You could gamble for more expensive items with higher ranks in gambling. Isnt gambling in real life a simple pass/fail check?

More expensive items that do what...? Help you in combat.

There are more elaborate gambling games, however Troika didn't include them because gambling is not part of Arcanum's core gameplay.

3. No it wasnt. Was as "good" as in Fallout/IE games or PoE. Stealth/Stealing is always pass/fail check you dumbfuck. Better rank in PP allowed you to get caught only on critical failure, steal bigger items without penalties or plant items on npc

Stealth was deterministic, which is good, but bad because you needed it practically maxed out to actually stealth past enemies, in which case, it was practically an invisibility spell. Moreover, while the UI would tell you whether or not you were in danger of getting caught, to get this information, you had to hold your cursor over the person in real time (and you can't do that at the same time as issuing move orders). It was a mess.

Here's some games where stealing is the gameplay: Thief, Invisible Inc. Thievery in Arcanum doesn't compare, and it's mostly just a means to get better things that will help you in combat. Not core gameplay.


4. Not gameplay :notsureifserious: Yes, killing quest related NPC and than raising him from dead to coerce him into giving me answers i needed to solve the quest and all that thanks to a spell i learned is not gameplay at all. GTFO retard

There's nothing demanding about that at all. It's role playing. It's not playing a game.

5. No i mean shit like playing dumb bitch with high beauty and having sexy dress gives +100 to npc reactions or playing sorcerer with no persuasion skills at all but still dominating everybody with spells or using Tarant Hall of Records to solve quests. Yep simply a win-button :lol:

NPC reactions in Arcanum are completely cosmetic. Light investigation is "Telltale's/Gone Home/Life is Strange/Her Story"-tier "gameplay."

Here's a definition of game

a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules

Where's the competition here? One could make dialogue a game, but in that case, it stops being role playing and starts being a puzzle. This isn't the case in Arcanum, where the core gameplay is combat and there's also a lot of role playing.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,233
Here's a definition of game

a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules

Where's the competition here? One could make dialogue a game, but in that case, it stops being role playing and starts being a puzzle. This isn't the case in Arcanum, where the core gameplay is combat and there's also a lot of role playing.

You have a chance to win a gamble, stay invisible or pick pocket NPC. Therefore all those activities outside of combat are "gameplay" according to your definition of game. Deal with it:smug:

NPC reactions in Arcanum are completely cosmetic

ok now i know you did not play this game.

There's nothing demanding about that at all. It's role playing. It's not playing a game.
You heard it here first folks. Casting a spell to resolve a quest is not "core gameplay". Its fucking LARPing:retarded: Why do i even bother :negative:
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
31,754
You have a chance to win a gamble, stay invisible or pick pocket NPC.

Those are all way too simple to be core gameplay. A coin toss is not core gameplay.

ok now i know you did not play this game.

I have. When you have a negative reaction you get a negative initial response, then you apologize, then dialogue continues on as usual. When you get a really high reaction they'll greet you with a positive line.

You heard it here first folks. Casting a spell to resolve a quest is not "core gameplay". Its fucking LARPing

Role playing is not LARPing. LARPing is when your role playing isn't acknowledged by the systems within the crpg.
 

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