Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Just Finished Chrono Trigger

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
8,986
Location
Nottingham
What did you expect from Facebook?

Very true, and very naïve of me.

But I did expect there to be more balance. Yes I totally expected some of the deeper games such as PST and Fallout 1 & 2 to get overlooked, but I purposely put some more mainstream games in there so that the fucking stupid cunts could redeem themselves on those. Witcher 3, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Persona 5, Mass Effect etc. I wouldn't have any of them as particularly great stories, but they're all light-years ahead of fucking FF6 and Chrono Trigger. It takes very little to appease the tards. They're the types who thought Attack of The Clones was amazing because of Yoda's fight scene with Dooku.
 

InSight

Learned
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
357
I polled a Facebook group to get the normie angle on CT.......
zfSlLeD.png




To extend on that, this was the same group's opinion on great stories in RPGs too.....

eQd2yb3.png


vjzO6PN.png


RCfZoU2.png


E07hsXQ.png


tqDYmnH.png

So that's right, according to the vast majority, FF6, FF Tactics and Chrono Trigger (145 votes in total for 3 games) all total have better stories than Planetscape Torment, Fallout 1 & 2, The Witcher 1 & 2, Deus Ex, Lost Odyssey and Disco Elysium (16 votes in total for 8 games).

How can anyone not want to exterminate this mass of retarded cunts with extreme prejudice? They are the decline in flesh form. They are the reason we get force-fed souless capeshit whilst John Carpenter movies are relegated to the back of beyond. They are the scum who influenced what started as Baldur's Gate now becoming Tranny Age. They're a fucking disgrace to gaming and a blight on society and human evolution.

I think it's safe to say that CT is so well loved and so successful for similar reasons to Skyrim - it's a mong's game. That's not to say it doesn't have good attributes which none-mongs can enjoy or that there's anything wrong with enjoying it or certain aspects of it. But basically the retarded majority of society want something easy, unengaging, and don't have the capacity to process stories above the level of "kill big bad to save the world".

Such use of pools are bad/faulty/unreliable for accurate assessment. For it to be of accurate/good/valid use, one would need to confirm that all the voter of the poll have played all the games mentioned(preferably to a finish if not twice) and in the order of their release date. a hard/difficult/hefty task if one wants proper/true/solid results due to games length. A movie can be experienced in hours while a game can require days/weeks/months. One can assume the voter simple voted based on their limited experience, They have not played the other games, if they did ,one could assume the results to be different. What such polls measure is the popularity of the game, the influence of dopamine or the influence/power/control of marketing.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
8,986
Location
Nottingham
I polled a Facebook group to get the normie angle on CT.......
zfSlLeD.png




To extend on that, this was the same group's opinion on great stories in RPGs too.....

eQd2yb3.png


vjzO6PN.png


RCfZoU2.png


E07hsXQ.png


tqDYmnH.png

So that's right, according to the vast majority, FF6, FF Tactics and Chrono Trigger (145 votes in total for 3 games) all total have better stories than Planetscape Torment, Fallout 1 & 2, The Witcher 1 & 2, Deus Ex, Lost Odyssey and Disco Elysium (16 votes in total for 8 games).

How can anyone not want to exterminate this mass of retarded cunts with extreme prejudice? They are the decline in flesh form. They are the reason we get force-fed souless capeshit whilst John Carpenter movies are relegated to the back of beyond. They are the scum who influenced what started as Baldur's Gate now becoming Tranny Age. They're a fucking disgrace to gaming and a blight on society and human evolution.

I think it's safe to say that CT is so well loved and so successful for similar reasons to Skyrim - it's a mong's game. That's not to say it doesn't have good attributes which none-mongs can enjoy or that there's anything wrong with enjoying it or certain aspects of it. But basically the retarded majority of society want something easy, unengaging, and don't have the capacity to process stories above the level of "kill big bad to save the world".

Such use of pools are bad/faulty/unreliable for accurate assessment. For it to be of accurate/good/valid use, one would need to confirm that all the voter of the poll have played all the games mentioned(preferably to a finish if not twice) and in the order of their release date. a hard/difficult/hefty task if one wants proper/true/solid results due to games length. A movie can be experienced in hours while a game can require days/weeks/months. One can assume the voter simple voted based on their limited experience, They have not played the other games, if they did ,one could assume the results to be different. What such polls measure is the popularity of the game, the influence of dopamine or the influence/power/control of marketing.

Yeah I agree to some degree.

But, whilst it won't be entirely accurate, it still gives a broad idea of how retarded these fuckwits are. Plenty in that group talk about a lot of the other games on that list, yet they site FF6 as the peak of stories. It's cliched and been done plenty of other times in plenty better ways too.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
5,949
Considering all the sudden negativity towards Chrono Trigger (and FFVI for some reason) let's remember, fellow CT storyfaqs, who's in our corner:

Chris Avellone: They're role-playing games as long as some choice you make causes some change in the environment, so not everyone has the same experience. Like, a character's attitude may change, or something. Chrono Trigger was clearly an RPG to me - one of the best ever, even.

:buildawall:
 
Last edited:

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
2,801
Location
Nedderlent
I assume anyone that enjoys rpgs. If you are playing JRPGs for the plot, I pity you.
For me it's not so much the plot but the "vibe" where certain JRPGs excel, and deliver something not really found anywhere else. And by JRPG I don't mean Anime-Dungeon-Blobber, that's a different ballgame.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
8,986
Location
Nottingham
I assume anyone that enjoys rpgs. If you are playing JRPGs for the plot, I pity you.
For me it's not so much the plot but the "vibe" where certain JRPGs excel, and deliver something not really found anywhere else. And by JRPG I don't mean Anime-Dungeon-Blobber, that's a different ballgame.

Agreed.

But I am a bit gobsmacked at how simple some people are that just having said vibe is enough for them. Don't get me wrong, it's a great, much needed part of it, but personally I want more meat on the bone. It's a bit like dating a stunning woman who wears a mint perfume and has a sweet seductive voice, that's all well and good but if she's a crap shag and boring to spend time with I'd get fed up. Like a good tart, a good JRPG should be good on the senses AND good to play with. CT definitely falls over with the latter.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
9,981
FF6 as the peak of stories. It's cliched and been done plenty of other times in plenty better ways too.
What games are you talking about that did what FF6 did but better? You say it's cliched so you're saying it's been done numerous times in previous games? I see a lot of mention that there were better RPGs than CT and FF6 even on the SNES but no mention of titles.
 

Lord of Riva

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,225
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I recently replayed Chrono Trigger and Terranigma with my 6- year old.

From my perspective both are extremely well written, and that is even true with the horrible german translations which i have to correct every two textboxes, what you have to consider is who the target audience is for these games, namely young children.

And seemingly from a time past these games are full of wonder and a sense of adventure that is hardly seen anymore. They have thematic elements that are far more nuanced when it comes to morality than anything done for children these days with all it's coddling.

The Heroes archetypes is missing in western media for ages now and it shows.

It seems way more important for children to understand that the protagonist Ark from Terranigma is created as an Avatar of Darkness, his purpose to create a world for the Dark to inherent and to defy his destiny while sacrificing himself.
Or that while trying to do the good thing you end up becoming Evil (like Magus).

than whatever they currently get in entertainment deemed suitable for their age bracket.

Is this as complex as other stories? surely not, but the complexity for chidlrens entertainment and how they can hook young boys especially is fucking amazing.

Additionally the games are just very fun to play so thats a bonus.

I am currently on to Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals and while that lacks interesting story hooks he by now can play it alone, learning logic through puzzles which he mostly can do alone, Math due to the combat mechanics and reading speed and comprehension.

These games and this hobby is a Boon and you should all be happy that you can enjoy it.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
5,949
Is this as complex as other stories? surely not, but the complexity for chidlrens entertainment and how they can hook young boys especially is fucking amazing.

Will say here, that the *complexity* of said other stories is often fake/overrated and distilled down to its essence inferior or less interesting than a well written more *basic* story.
 

Reality

Learned
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
246
Is this as complex as other stories? surely not, but the complexity for chidlrens entertainment and how they can hook young boys especially is fucking amazing.

Will say here, that the *complexity* of said other stories is often fake/overrated and distilled down to its essence inferior or less interesting than a well written more *basic* story.

I choose to interpret this as "Suikoden is shit". Maybe Genalogy of the Holy War, FFT, and Ogre Tactics too
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
8,986
Location
Nottingham
FF6 as the peak of stories. It's cliched and been done plenty of other times in plenty better ways too.
What games are you talking about that did what FF6 did but better? You say it's cliched so you're saying it's been done numerous times in previous games? I see a lot of mention that there were better RPGs than CT and FF6 even on the SNES but no mention of titles.

Most the other FF games for starters.

In terms of JRPGs that, off the top of my head, I think are better than both FF6 & CT I'd list:
  • Final Fantasy 4
  • Final Fantasy 5
  • Final Fantasy 7
  • Final Fantasy 9
  • Final Fantasy 10
  • Final Fantasy 12
  • Final Fantasy Tactics
  • Lufia 2
  • Shining Force 2
  • Shining Force
  • Phantasy Star 4
  • Lost Odysessy
  • Last Remnant
  • Tales of Berseria
  • Tales of Zesteria
  • Persona 5
  • Xenogears
  • Vandal Hearts
  • Shadow Hearts
  • Shadow Hearts Covenant
  • Earthbound
  • Undertale
  • Star Ocean:Till the End of Time
  • Valkyria Chronicles
  • Sieken Detsuken 3
  • Suikoden 2
  • Nier
  • Nier Automata
  • Disgea

In terms of RPGs just look at the Codex's top 70 RPGs for a load more. Shadowrun Returns & Dragonfall, Badlurs Gate 1 & 2, Underrail, Morrowind, Witcher 1 & 2 etc. these absolutely piss all over FF6 & CT from a massive height, and even did back in the day. I remember playing through CT for the first time and being amazed by it, only to get a PC and Baldur's Gate 1 shortly afterwards and feeling like I stepped away from driving a BMW into driving a Ferrari.

Even though I hate I wouldn't say CT was shit. It just bugs me that what is essentially a BMW of RPGs gets noshed off as if it's a Ferrari F40. CT & FF6 wouldn't get in my top 50 RPGs, and it'd be questionable if they made the top 100 tbh. I recognize their good qualities, but others don't seem to recognize that both are a chore to play for large parts of them.

Hell I wouldn't have either above Buck Rogers: Countdown To Doomsday. I still play, and enjoy, that semi-regularly now.
 
Last edited:

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
8,339
Location
Water Play Catarinense
You listed better games, sure, but I think he wanted "games that did what FF6 did, but better" and not just "games that are better than FF6". They are not the same. Now, if you are going to list games better than FF6 and CT, I believe he wanted SNES only.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
8,986
Location
Nottingham
You listed better games, sure, but I think he wanted "games that did what FF6 did, but better" and not just "games that are better than FF6". They are not the same. Now, if you are going to list games better than FF6 and CT, I believe he wanted SNES only.

The same answer is still in there tho. Almost all the other Final Fantasy games for starters, and all the SNES games which I list.

The SNES' JRPGs are HUGELY overrated anyway. Most are a real chore to play now because of excessive, simplistic random battles and clichéd stories. It's a bit sad that so many see that as the systems' main strength.
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
8,339
Location
Water Play Catarinense
I don't think SNES's JRPGs are overrated, I do think Squaresoft ones are overrated, though. Usually most people only mention square's jrpg when they talk about snes's games.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
8,986
Location
Nottingham
I don't think SNES's JRPGs are overrated, I do think Squaresoft ones are overrated, though. Usually most people only mention square's jrpg when they talk about snes's games.

Over the past year on SNES I've replayed:
  • Chrono Trigger
  • FF4
  • FF5
  • FF6
  • Secret of Mana
  • Lufia 2
  • Monster Shell Story
  • Eternal Filena
  • Dual Orb 2
  • Earthbound
  • Breath of Fire
  • Breath of Fire 2
  • Dragon View
  • EVO Search for Boredom
  • 7th Saga
  • Bahmut Lagoon
And the only one's I particularly enjoyed and would return to again were FF4, FF5 and Lufia 2.

7th Saga I'm gonna replay the hacked version because I like the setup, but the grind was way too much. Bahmut Lagoon was way too easy, but a nice change of pace.

I started Seiken Densetsu 3, but wiped the saves by accident so will try that again too.

There are so many better RPGs out there on other systems.
 
Last edited:

Reality

Learned
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
246
I would say the problem is moreso just that people act like the Super NES is half platformer and half RPG with nothing else, when it actually has a lot of pretty good action games and stuff on it.

Really a case of a console being remembered for the wrong things (I remember putting SNES like 2nd to last in the rank the nintendo consoles thread before I remmembered the games I ACTUALLY play on on it)
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
8,339
Location
Water Play Catarinense
Tbh, if we ignore JRPGs, then the rest of its competition(Mega Drive and PC-Engine, mostly) have better games. Even in JRPG terms that is questionable. Not saying SNES is a bad video game, far from it. Just saying that either of those video games were worth your money.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
8,986
Location
Nottingham
I would say the problem is moreso just that people act like the Super NES is half platformer and half RPG with nothing else, when it actually has a lot of pretty good action games and stuff on it.

Really a case of a console being remembered for the wrong things (I remember putting SNES like 2nd to last in the rank the nintendo consoles thread before I remmembered the games I ACTUALLY play on on it)

It's a real shame, because all these Super Nintendo lovers are actually killing it dead now, telling young kids to play all this bollocks, when they're used to far better RPGs from Baldur's Gate 2, to The Witcher series, to Lost Odyssey, to a million other RPGs on various formats that blow the SNES's simple "charm-story-grind" bullshit away. They're trying to get them into games which just haven't kept up.

Yet the system has Contra 3, King of Demons, Actraiser, Link To The Past, F-Zero, Biometal, Blackthorne, Super Metroid, Combat Tribes, Final Fight 3 etc. To me a lot of those still hold up excellently today, and provide great blasts.

Mind you, now around 250 games into my 16-bit era revisit, and the Megadrive is creaming the SNES around 2/1. I'm at the point now where I can't stop going back to Megadrive games to play each night. It does help that they had a lot of PC games on there such as Dune and Star Control too.
 
Last edited:

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
2,801
Location
Nedderlent
how simple some people are that just having said vibe is enough for them.
Yeah, guilty as charged when combined with numbers going up, the numbers may be laughably playdoh if the vibe vibes enough.
I want more meat on the bone.
Fair enough. There's so much meat out there though :M
I am currently on to Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals
50e.png

Quintessential JRPG; Local village hero opening, overworld globetrotting, cryptic foreshadowings, anime-like episodic bell-curve story delivery, simple but fun itemization, simple but engaging dungeon gameplay with arrows, bombs, pallet of fun puzzles, only overworld random encounters, proto pokemans, archtypical story with cool beats, epic JRPG ending.
Great OST.
yasunori-shiono-2799.png
:incline:
fucking love lufia 2
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
8,339
Location
Water Play Catarinense
Lufia 1 had one hell of an opening track:

and

I liked it, btw. It's raw JRPG, it clicks every box on how to make a basic JRPG, but I still liked it. But Lufia 2 was something else. What a game.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
9,981
You listed better games, sure, but I think he wanted "games that did what FF6 did, but better" and not just "games that are better than FF6". They are not the same. Now, if you are going to list games better than FF6 and CT, I believe he wanted SNES only.
Well he said FF6 was cliched so I wanted to know what games had done what FF6 had done but better and before FF6 had come out.

But looking at those lists of games, he's obviously insane. Return to FF4 or Lufia 2? What ever for? I enjoyed Lufia 2 as well, but it's not something I'd ever want to replay after conquering the special dungeon they had. FF4 was ok but ultimately forgettable.

FF6 is good for a one time play through and I can kind of understand why some people might prefer it over CT, but it is a slog to replay through because there is so much story stuff and sad emotional crap to deal with. The saddest track on the SNES plays in the background as every character recounts their sad backstory, usually having to do with how the Empire has wronged them.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,251
Lufia 1 had one hell of an opening track:

and

I liked it, btw. It's raw JRPG, it clicks every box on how to make a basic JRPG, but I still liked it. But Lufia 2 was something else. What a game.

I hardly remember anything about whichever Lufia I played, but starting the game as the ultimate badasses that save the world was pretty cool.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Top Bottom