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Kenshi - open-ended sandbox RPG set in a desert world

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,041
I was undecided if this game was my cup of tea, so I just tried it. Damn is that game good! I started with 5 friends and was about to start my great journey, that lasted for 1 minute of walking, than some Reavers found me, in seconds it was over and we got enslaved. That's the point when I was sold. Has a Gothic-feel to it, you are a nobody.

Puzzled that the game has no bigger audience on the Codex, no levels, skills grow organically with use, no level-scalling, grim world, no classes, you can play however you want (trader, warrior, farmer, outlaw, miner, crafter). Really amazing game!

Recommend playing as an lone Wanderer first to learn the game.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,872
Kenshi is #2 on Steam top sellers right now! Looks like there was a popular thread on Reddit that may have generated a lot of interest.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
12,719
After spending some time in the deserts of the east, I returned home to the west and stumbled across a mountain fasthold filled with bandits, one of whom turned out to be the Dust King with a bounty worth 35 thousand. +M

npHKNPR.jpg


QHbrmHt.jpg
 

SmartCheetah

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
1,097
Anyone knows if loot containers in shops are actually "respawning" loot? I mean, is it clever to try robbing clean the same vendor after a few days, or I'll just end up lockpicking into the empty shop?
 

RoBoBOBR

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
709
After several lucrative trips from Hub to Squin, thieving my way to nearly 35 kilo-cats and getting a cool backpack and every map i could get, i decided to visit World's End, to check out their shops. That trip showed me how beautiful this game can be, some of the vistas were very cool.
Some views (cross-post from Screenshot thread):
46374283071_1d36d265cc_o_d.jpg

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46374282981_8c1a558aa3_o_d.jpg
This world is yuge, i like that scale very much. Adds to the whole "you're not chosen one" feel.
 

Saduj

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,576
I only get the occasional pause for loading on the world map. But the game does crash once in a while. And every time I exit on my own, without fail, I get the program not responding message.

Oh and every time I start, I get a “this game needs a steam key” message from Steam that covers the bottom right corner of my screen and I have to shift-tab to close it. The game has never asked me for this key. If anyone knows how to get rid of that, I’d love to know how.

Loving the game though. Although finding a Lost Armoury last night only to discover it was filled with mechanical rape spiders seemed like a troll move by the devs. By the time I can beat that many of those things I probably won’t need whatever is in there....
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,872
I wouldn't say unplayable. But for me I do get a pause to buffer loading the world every 7-12 seconds or so if I am traveling across the map at 3x speed. At 2x Speed it doesn't happen that often, usually just when it has to load in a lot of assets like a town. It almost never happens at normal speed for me. I have gotten used to it and it only bothers me a little, but I could see how some people would be very irritated by it.

Although I am going to get an SSD with my next computer (the prices did come down recently) and this is the game that most influenced that decision.

I have an SSD (although it's a few years old) and I have similar issues with loading. Not a huge deal, but I was considering upgrading my GPU to see if it would help? Idk that much about hardware so not sure where the bottleneck would currently exist. Here's my current rig:

i5-4670K
GTX 770
8GB DDR3 RAM
128GB SSD

I built this PC back in 2014 and it was sort of an upper-mid range build back then. I was waiting on Mount & Blade Bannerlord to build a new rig but who knows when / if that will ever release lol.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Edgy Vatnik
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
6,941
Location
Albania
Basically 90% of the game's performance is the disk. Majority of sort of modern components have no problems with it, but it has to load shittons of stuff whole the time so it's either on ssd or it sucks. I've considered pcie SSD for a while just for this game
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,580
I wouldn't say unplayable. But for me I do get a pause to buffer loading the world every 7-12 seconds or so if I am traveling across the map at 3x speed. At 2x Speed it doesn't happen that often, usually just when it has to load in a lot of assets like a town. It almost never happens at normal speed for me. I have gotten used to it and it only bothers me a little, but I could see how some people would be very irritated by it.

Although I am going to get an SSD with my next computer (the prices did come down recently) and this is the game that most influenced that decision.

I have an SSD (although it's a few years old) and I have similar issues with loading. Not a huge deal, but I was considering upgrading my GPU to see if it would help? Idk that much about hardware so not sure where the bottleneck would currently exist. Here's my current rig:

i5-4670K
GTX 770
8GB DDR3 RAM
128GB SSD

I built this PC back in 2014 and it was sort of an upper-mid range build back then. I was waiting on Mount & Blade Bannerlord to build a new rig but who knows when / if that will ever release lol.
I've got basically the same experience with roughly similar specs but slightly older GTX 750. Loading times are generally bearable unless I need to swap between my thief naruto-running across the map at 30mph and my base- then things get irritatingly slowed down. Some areas are far worse than others though. It's much easier to load a barren desert than some area strewn with random doodads.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,872
True. I have gotten in the habit of just pausing the game for a few seconds whenever there is a lot of stuff to load. Once you let it catch up it will usually run pretty well from there.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,616
Oh and every time I start, I get a “this game needs a steam key” message from Steam that covers the bottom right corner of my screen and I have to shift-tab to close it. The game has never asked me for this key. If anyone knows how to get rid of that, I’d love to know how.

You can disable the key message.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,616
Long post.

Very far East from Hub I found an abandoned outpost filled with stuff:
0E964015A3A72B67BBF336E8928826091153706F


Then I decided to go South for The Bugmaster's head. Unfortunately it turned out into Starship Troopers :) I had no choice but to turn back.
CDD8A383FCF5FD3C84CEDE809CBFFA95C48BC6BE


Got another companion while traversing the Shek territories. Got rekt from Kral's supporters :) These bastards are tough.
BA8E25D2DFC7352D936FB50D4B036F6DC2CD709A


On the way back to HUB I wiped out a wolves den :) Felt good.
FDC73320FB0E7C6B1E6D4F1F0C2BF2FFACEE7042


Surprise! Surprise! Two gangs are waiting for me in my own outpost :)
1561F5ED10D58F0A7DEFC584090274E5213625C8


Got rekt again and again until God had mercy on me! The bandits attacked the slave mongers!! This gave me time to heal and pick bandits one by one.
F89508BD22D94E0E2CED4147B74E552A9884FC8E


With some humongous portion of luck I was victorious in the end :) Molly is my waifu.
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No pictures: Robbed every corpse, sold every piece of armor and weapon (got like 20k cats) and bought food and one pack bull. Decided to go West this time (also I got a tower location from a map I bought in Squin).

First encounter in Vain was brutal :)
7FDF0D2981399E9DD57190A90284CDCF8DC7DC90


Had to rest for a long time. These beasts kept on coming. Beak thing my ass.
CA23FD710811335838A7A676550B360E0430BD3A


Lot of fights. Encountered another abomination.
26B27A16B8FCED21B7CEF4668EEA290C18996727


Finally managed to reach the West coast. The tower was on a island. Well, it's time for acid bath!
00EC7E4E7534217DCC80ACDA508E4CD0A6BB8951


A little bit further from the coastline the acid is gone but all Sheks swim like bricks.
7617F1664E4A957A2C9C88CF128F39D8E0B51EA7


Finally on land!!
69F79A2F11A19B821D7844D957D73BF7D07E3845


Hit the Motherload!! First shy ...
15C695A252274FF4807D7C2C30B107CA0D9122CF


... but then solid: One Engineering Research!
ACD6DA0D670672DBF43562F763C42B7B85D55B26


But that's not enough!! Here there are 3 more!!! Omfg, it's heaven!! :)
CBCD200FF3C950055055BA18CFDFC607CC126B1E


They deserved a rest. They really do :)
87C704E3F35A77BA84B6F488710A9D5D088F11BD


And that was the good part because the return to Hub was a nightmare.

First I got chased by cannibals:
3DECAF2F654AC4C4C29EA3EFF46BACD0B2B32A69


Then every fucking beak thing raped me. This is what I saw for like 2 hours:
063DB7976FC3CC6E8859EEA76F4AB0988D1734FB


But in end I've reached my outpost. It was a good day! A glorious day! Now, I should find some Ancient Books :)

Fun fact: The pack bull had Athletics 35 by the end of the expedition.
 
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Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,872
Fyi the Beak Things are attracted by the smell of blood, so in their territory you don't want to make camp near the site of a battle.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,616
Fyi the Beak Things are attracted by the smell of blood, so in their territory you don't want to make camp near the site of a battle.

Thanks for confirmation. It crossed my mind. At some point I could not do shit because they were swarming me. That's why I decided to camp only on new ground (and probably that's how I managed to leave that place).

Also the North of Vain is pure nightmare. On one side there are the Beak Things while on the other side are the Cannibals. Worst path for a newbie.
 

Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
Patron
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
35,569
Location
Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/12/19/how-kenshis-world-is-designed-not-to-care-about-you/

How Kenshi's world is designed not to care about you
Tough love


70


The Mechanic, where Alex Wiltshire invites developers to discuss the difficult journeys they’ve taken to make their games. This time, Kenshi [official site].

You’re not the hero in Kenshi. You’re not the chosen one. There’s nothing out there for you to save – other than your own skin. You’re just another inhabitant of a huge open world that doesn’t care about you. That’s its magic, and it takes design to create a world so exquisitely uncaring.

Merry Christmas, everybody!

mech_kenshi_00012.jpg


Put it this way. Designer Chris Hunt, who’s been making Kenshi for some 12 years, has wondered about making a character come to a player at the beginning of their game and call them the chosen one. “Then he’d use that to fleece some money out of you and then run away or something.”

Thankfully, he hasn’t gotten around to adding it, but his sister, Natalie Hunt, did add a similar player-taunting detail that underscores the uncaring nature of this vast and demanding RPG. Go and speak to the emperor of the largest faction, the United Cities, and he’ll appear to give you a quest. “In reality, you’d probably be arrested for walking up to an emperor,” says Hunt. “So he gives you made-up quest and all the characters in the room start laughing at you. I’ve seen forum posts where people didn’t quite get it and ask how to finish the quest, going to the far end of the desert to find some wizard with a stupid name.”

Kenshi, after all, has no quests, just the ones you set yourself as you carve out a place for yourself within its world as a trader, a farmer, a raider, a thief, or a leader of a settlement of your own. Whatever you choose to do in Kenshi, it’s driven by the design of the world itself.

mech_kenshi_00008.jpg


But even though the world is simulated, everything within it is hand-placed, whether it’s a town, the loot in a tower, the weather, animals and vegetation, mining spots, fertile ground, NPCs and the contents of shops. Filling a world of 870 square kilometres with things to do and interact with was, Hunt says, the hardest thing about developing the game.

“The whole thing is one consistent long battle of complexity so I never really stopped at it, I guess. The size overcomplicates anything and everything you do,” he says. But Kenshi had to be big. “I like the feeling of exploring and ending up in different lands. There aren’t many games that really do that. You know if you go to some island in Asia, you can stand there and feel you’re miles away from anything you know? I wanted to have a game where you can feel you’re in a far-away alien place.”

Kenshi’s often harsh topography, created by artist Oli Hatton, reflects that idea. He used terrain generators to build sections before going in to hand-edit and then fold them into the rest of the world to produce a shifting and often-desolate landscape. It’s often strange in form, capturing the alien nature that Hunt wanted, but he also wanted a sense of realism, with erosion and other naturalistic features.

mech_kenshi_00003.jpg


And then they had to fill it with interesting stuff. “There’s no point in travelling for miles and miles across the map if everything’s the same,” says Hunt, so he avoided evenly distributing things. He split the world up into some 60 different biomes, geographical areas distinguished by certain NPC cultures, weather, topography and other factors. But, often working entirely on his own, and with a team that never exceeded six members, he only had a limited stock of different items.

”Basically I just stare at an image of the map for hours and hours and try to think about how it’d work,” says Hunt. In many ways, creating the world was like solving a huge, interlocking puzzle, fitting together each area so they provide the uneven scatter of culture he wanted while also being good to play in. Kenshi might seem not to care about you, but it’s still entirely designed for you.

“You want a zone full of treasure to be in the far reaches, you don’t want it to be easily accessible,” he explains. “And maybe you want some dangerous inhabited zones in between, and you have to think about how they work together. What’s blocking access to another zone? Where are the main hangout areas, the easy areas, the difficult areas, the exploration zone?”

mech_kenshi_00010.jpg


So Hunt partly thinks about Kenshi’s world in terms of the journeys players take through it. “I always saw designing the map as laying traps for the player,” he says. “I consider myself the player’s enemy. I set traps and things that can go wrong. Sometimes I like to try to deceive the player.”

His main tool is player expectation. “If you can subvert it in a fun way, then you’ve got yourself a fun trap.” One such trap is a tower, one of many that players will have learned hold lots of technology and treasure. In this trap tower, however, players will find a trail of semi-valuable items going up the stairs, and when they arrive at the top they’ll find a hundred cannibals and nothing else.

Some of those journeys are trading routes. One such is between the lawless Swamp, where you can buy extremely cheap locally grown hashish, and the Great Desert in the north-east where the United Cities is based. Hashish is illegal there, but if you can cross half the map, braving all the threats on the way without starving (you won’t be able to grow anything since the lands you tread are pretty much totally infertile), and you can get your contraband past city guards, you’ll make a 2000% markup.

mech_kenshi_00009.jpg


Hunt also had to think about the journeys that the AIs take. You don’t directly control your characters in Kenshi – RTS-style, you click on the landscape or map and they’ll navigate there themselves. ”Sometimes Oli would make big impassible mountain ranges and I’d have to make him break them up a bit so we could put some paths through that the AI could handle,” Hunt says.

These paths aren’t necessarily visible roads. They’re for the AI, the result of a problem Hunt encountered with pathfinding in such a large space. The game only loads nine ‘zones’ around the location of the camera, simulating everything that happens in them. As you move the camera around, the game loads in the next three zones in the direction you travel, and unloads the three behind. But you might send a character out of these zones. Since the game doesn’t have terrain in memory, it can’t pathfind. “So we had to make this abstract global system of roads,” says Hunt. They’re like AI motorways that help it get around when the world doesn’t exist.

As well as journeys, Hunt also thinks about the world in terms of stories. He wanted parts of it to hold hints to its history, such as a crater which may have been the site of a meteor landing, or where a bomb exploded. The details are never fully explained – Hunt is not a fan of exposition – but they might be alluded to in the game’s sparse lines of NPC dialogue, adding layers of new context which it’s up to the player to put together.

mech_kenshi_00011.jpg


Like so much of Kenshi, these features aren’t evenly spread across the world. “Sometimes the entire feature of a zone might be that it’s empty, desolate and lifeless,” says Hunt. Or it could be the local weather or the kind of NPCs that live there. “We’ve tried to lay everything out logically, based on the story and the physics that’d occur. So you’ve got a volcano zone, where the water is acidic and there’s continually falling ash. There’s another zone that’s a desert with harsh storms in it. We try to connect everything up.”

The way the culture of the different factions is reflected in the items shops stock is a good example of this relationship between story and world design. In the Shek kingdom, a faction of tall warriors, you’ll only find large weapons. Because that’s what they’d stock, and if you want something smaller, well, tough. Likewise, in the Fog Islands where the cannibalistic Fogmen live, who capture their victims and eat their legs (Kenshi has a detailed body damage system), you can find a shop which sells the very best robotic limbs, if you can get to it.

Shop goods was an important part of designing Kenshi’s world, because they do so much to push players out into the world, and Hunt’s philosophy was guided by what he doesn’t like in other games. “One of the worst things games do nowadays is base the contents in shops on the player’s level,” he says. “So you’re level two and see nothing but level two leather armour and iron swords. There’s no choice. The best part of shopping is to look at the fancy stuff you can’t afford and wish you could and get excited. It gives you the drive to earn money and do something in the game.”

mech_kenshi_00004.jpg


Kenshi looks like it doesn’t care about you when the shops don’t have what you need, forcing you to go to places that might not be good for you. “Personally, I think it’s fun to venture into an area, realise you’re in over your head, panic and flee,” says Hunt. And it looks like it doesn’t care about you when you’re stuck in the middle of nowhere, with no access to water and food. “If you’re somewhere there isn’t what you need to equip to survive, then that’s your own fault, it’s part of the game.”

But in truth, this harshness, this shove to be part of and make the best of Kenshi’s world, it’s all about you.

This really made me curious. I suppose I'm gonna have to try out the demo later today.
 
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toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,616
... snip ...

It starts with:
You’re not the hero in Kenshi. You’re not the chosen one. There’s nothing out there for you to save – other than your own skin. You’re just another inhabitant of a huge open world that doesn’t care about you.

... and it ends with this:
But in truth, this harshness, this shove to be part of and make the best of Kenshi’s world, it’s all about you.

That article's conclusion on Kenshi is retarded. No surprise considering the source.

The game is not about you at all, in fact it's the opposite, the game is entirely about the Kenshi's world and its simulation.

Each part of the game is sub-par: the graphics are bad, the UI is atrocious, the combat sucks, the economy is broken, the grind is real and so on.

The only reason to play this game is to experience the world's inner simulation and the emergent gameplay. This is where the game shines and all its sins can be forgiven.

One difference between this and Mount and Blade is that this is a pure simulation game: You can never take direct control of a character. (Makes me wonder if this is a God game like Populous!?)

Then there is the RTS layer where in Kenshi you can use squads to perform different tasks (mine, trade, craft or fight). You can play it like a 4X is you want but that's not the point of the game.

And then there is the RPG aspect where you can indirectly assign a role to each of your characters (Thief, Assassin, Fighter, Trader, Crafter, Miner, Slave and so on). And you can play solo if you have big balls.

I'm not sure M&B has the same mechanics as it's more focused on massive battle's simulation. Kenshi is much more than that.

There is no main story but that should not be confused with no story or lore. In fact the environmental storytelling in this game is brilliant: your interactions/adventures will make you learn about the particularities of each region or species you encounter.

Anyway, this is truly a sandbox game where you can explore the world in any way you want. There are no end game goals therefore you can make your own.

Honestly I did no expect to like this game but now I'm 40+ hours into it and in some way I love the fact that I can put it down and start playing later.

In most games I tend to play continuously because I don't want to forget about the story and the characters ... but in Kenshi I feel like I'm liberated from the narrative constraints. Pure game bliss.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,982
Location
where east is west
I think next I'll grab the two closest skellies to recruit, then load up on tons of food and get some acid gear to head to the Black Desert City to grab the skellie there before grinding combat like Zanz aid at Mongrel.

I've run into the same issue with saving once but only once, so it's probably a semi-random, infrequently-occurring bug. :M

Yeah I didn't run into it last time I played after I reported it.

Still, whenever it happens do a verify of the game integrity, should bring up and replace one or two files that are fucked.

Anyone knows if loot containers in shops are actually "respawning" loot? I mean, is it clever to try robbing clean the same vendor after a few days, or I'll just end up lockpicking into the empty shop?

They respawn. I loaded up on shit in Squin, but hesitated to sell the skellie repair kits I got from doing so even though they're the best thing you et from em, but by the time I got back to there from fencing it all at the Hub they'd restocked along with more repair kits.

If you're going to rob stores I recommend and buying a full sized thieves bag to do so at first (buy a small to normally use, it comes without any penalties so no reason not to use one when not stealing), then make a run to a larger city, (for me I went from Squin to Admag) and buy a large backpack. That is a must for stealing in Shek territory, since the Shek love their huge heavy weps, which have a 10 item slot width. Without a large backpack you can only carry one in your main weapon slot to take back to fence and Shek wep shops can sell as many as ten or more of the things that sell from 1500-5000 cats.

That's an awesome way to work up Str too. I loaded both my small thieves up with random gear, then a large one with heavy weps and walked around Admag with 280 pounds on me for some quick 50 Str.

Also keep an eye on trying to picpocket or KO store owners to loot em for store backpacks which are even larger than the large ones.

Same thing happens to Bar containers too. The one in the Squin bar under the stairs is perfect to get food from, but it can restock empty. The nice thing about the Shek places is they seem to love Meat Wraps, which are a nice meal with 50 nutrition. Only problem for me is often by the time I look in it I'm full of stolen gear and don't have room to grab much food.

Oh and every time I start, I get a “this game needs a steam key” message from Steam that covers the bottom right corner of my screen and I have to shift-tab to close it. The game has never asked me for this key. If anyone knows how to get rid of that, I’d love to know how.

Click "Don't shot this again" on the key window. I often have it show up on games when I first play them, but that always does the job.

Basically 90% of the game's performance is the disk. Majority of sort of modern components have no problems with it, but it has to load shittons of stuff whole the time so it's either on ssd or it sucks. I've considered pcie SSD for a while just for this game

I'm so damn used to playing slow games over the year this is just like coming home for me. Hell, I played Sins of a Solar Empire of huge maps that would take days to finish on my old early 2000s store bought comp, this is nothing.
 
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Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,982
Location
where east is west
Attacking enslaved bandits is a good way to work up crossbows at the beginning. They don't attack and just follow the slavemongers who just heal em up and don't aggro you.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,872
Kenshi, after all, has no quests, just the ones you set yourself as you carve out a place for yourself within its world as a trader, a farmer, a raider, a thief, or a leader of a settlement of your own. Whatever you choose to do in Kenshi, it’s driven by the design of the world itself.

I love this aspect of the game, but sometimes I wish there was a bit more reactivity in the way you interact with factions and other people within the world.

For instance let's say you set the goal for yourself of genociding all cannibals from the world. A reasonable way to do that would be to join the Cannibal Hunters faction, but you can't, even though realistically the faction needs recruits to replace losses and expand its power. I'm not saying they would let any dumbfuck off the street join, but if a qualified adventurer showed up you would expect they would take them in. So what if you could have a conversation like this:

You: "I want to join the Cannibal Hunters."
Faction leader: "Who the fuck are you? We have no use for random shitheads."
You: "I can handle myself, trust me."
Faction leader: "All right then, badass. Bring me the left ears from 50 cannibals and then we'll talk."

Then you go kill the cannibals, loot the ears, and are allowed to join and gain access to faction services. I know this reeks a little bit of "go fetch me 10 flowers" bullshit from MMOs, but it's asking you to play the game, not do some inane busy work. Very similar to the Shinobi, except you have to kill mobs instead of pay money. And you don't have to go heavy on "questing" from here either -- maybe just a couple of big ones to wipe out cannibal villages, and ultimately capture / kill the cannibal big kahuna.

Maybe I am off base here, idk. Like I said, the free form nature of the game is definitely one of its biggest strengths, but I wonder if it couldn't be even better if things weren't quite so sparse.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,872
They sell the blueprint at
Scraphouse
but I don't remember seeing them in any shops. Maybe in the southeast? I still haven't explored that area very much.
 

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