Kingdom Come: Deliverance II - Henry's coming to see us on February 4th

[Paul_cz]

I know gypsies were in, but I am surprised to see a guy from actual africa. Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

 

[Melcar]

Next up, interracial (gay) romance DLC.

 

[Infinitron]

Those images could be FAKE, but if they aren't then they're leaks from this:

Seen from a couple journos that another round of previews are dropping on the 10th.

 

[Hag]

I know gypsies were in, but I am surprised to see a guy from actual africa. Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

There is no reason not to. Since there was active diplomatic and commercial activity between Europe and China in the 14th Century it would make sense rich African empires would be around too.

 

[DKunit]

I know gypsies were in, but I am surprised to see a guy from actual africa. Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

Sub-Saharans were known to cross the desert to make contact with Europeans looking to open trade routes. With how wealthy and important to the nobility Kuttenberg was, it would not be out of the question to see some African traders travel there.

 

[Toffeli]

Mansa Musa is perhaps the most based negro in history

But Mansa Musa died in 1337, game takes place in 1403, so it can't be him.

 

[Paul_cz]

Hmm. Either way, if it's real, Vávra is going to eat lot of shit for this

 

[DKunit]

Another:

 

[Bulo]

Mansa Musa is perhaps the most based negro in history

But Mansa Musa died in 1337, game takes place in 1403, so it can't be him.

Aw hell that nigga back from the dead

 

[DKunit]

Hmm. Either way, if it's real, Vávra is going to eat lot of shit for this

Eatin' shit all the way to fuckin' bank.

 

[Ascetic]

For reference, here's a map of Mali in 1337, basically at the height of their power. By the time of KCD, they would be on the decline.

I'm personally not against "diversity" that's historically accurate, however it seems to me that they basically included the closest black people they could find. Because while there would've been people from Northern Africa and the Middle East in Eastern Europe, they're not black.

Considering that there was criticism against KCD specifically not having black people -- and Vavra famously stated that there weren't any black people in Bohemia -- I have to say I find this quite suspicious. In fact, the Twitter post Vavra responded to referenced the Moors, who weren't actually black but were north of Mali and thus closer to Europe. Did the historians that Warhorse works with discover some new documents about feminist black Muslim scholars chilling in Bohemia?

 

[Larianshill]

I'll sound like I'm coping, but I think this is fake - at the very least, the subtitles.

 

[Deadass]

enjoy your kingdom woke chuds

 

[Elttharion]

Biography. Daniel Vávra was born in Rychnov nad Kněžnou, before moving to Prague. He has partial Jewish ancestry

 

[DKunit]

For reference, here's a map of Mali in 1337, basically at the height of their power. By the time of KCD, they would be on the decline.

I'm personally not against "diversity" that's historically accurate, however it seems to me that they basically included the closest black people they could find. Because while there would've been people from Northern Africa and the Middle East in Eastern Europe, they're not black.

Considering that there was criticism against KCD specifically not having black people -- and Vavra famously stated that there weren't any black people in Bohemia -- I have to say I find this quite suspicious. In fact, the Twitter post Vavra responded to referenced the Moors, who weren't actually black but were north of Mali and thus closer to Europe. Did the historians that Warhorse works with discover some new documents about feminist black Muslim scholars chilling in Bohemia?

While they would have been on the decline, the Malian Empire went through a very long, slow decline. They still would have been very wealthy at the time. And since there was not much realistic Malian art from that period, they probably went of that famous piece of Mansa Musa that portrayed him as very dark-skinned.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

It doesn't make much sense, because that's not how trade worked in that time period. Even if a trader from Mali would want something from Bohemia that he couldn't otherwise purchase closer to home, he wouldn't go there to buy it. Long distance trade was facilitated through, often very long, chains of intermediaries and agents. It was credit and goods that travelled, not people.

Is it possible that a man from Mali ended up in Kuttenberg in early 15th century? Yes. Is it probable? No. Does it make narrative sense? I very much doubt it.

 

[Hag]

It was credit and goods that travelled, not people.

It could have been an ambassador or simply a curious guy. There have always been travelers at all times - in particular from wealthy countries.

I'm actually kind of curious about the guy now.

 

[Ascetic]

While they would have been on the decline, the Malian Empire went through a very long, slow decline. They still would have been very wealthy at the time. And since there was not much realistic Malian art from that period, they probably went of that famous piece of Mansa Musa that portrayed him as very dark-skinned.

The point is that even at its largest, Mali was quite far from Europe. The Portuguese trade post in Cap-Vert in 1445... that's when the Portuguese first arrived. In other words, the first -- and Western-most -- Europeans didn't even reach Western Africa until decades after KCD is set.

 

[DKunit]

While they would have been on the decline, the Malian Empire went through a very long, slow decline. They still would have been very wealthy at the time. And since there was not much realistic Malian art from that period, they probably went of that famous piece of Mansa Musa that portrayed him as very dark-skinned.

The point is that even at its largest, Mali was quite far from Europe. The Portuguese trade post in Cap-Vert in 1445... that's when the Portuguese first arrived. In other words, the first -- and Western-most -- Europeans didn't even reach Western Africa until decades after KCD is set. Of course, Africans have always been more intent on getting.

Very true. Eh, I'll wait and see how this guy is written. Assuming these images are real, he isn't even a trader, but a scholar and explorer.

 

[Cpt. Dallas]

Are they tagged essential?

 

[thr]

If it gets confirmed (and I doubt anyone would bother photoshoping this), then it's a no buy for me. It will not make just Vavra into an absolute clown, but also all those fans who were defending Warhorse for years against the ridiculous demands to add blacks. You can't say there were no blacks in medieval bohemia, hold that position for half a decade, and then go "jk here have a negro in medieval bohemia".

 

[Habichtswalder]

Never heard of Mansa Musa and empire of Mali, does it make any sense that trader from there would find himself around Kuttenberg?

It doesn't make much sense, because that's not how trade worked in that time period. Even if a trader from Mali would want something from Bohemia that he couldn't otherwise purchase closer to home, he wouldn't go there to buy it. Long distance trade was facilitated through, often very long, chains of intermediaries and agents. It was credit and goods that travelled, not people.

Is it possible that a man from Mali ended up in Kuttenberg in early 15th century? Yes. Is it probable? No. Does it make narrative sense? I very much doubt it.

Also, Kuttenberg is not a city by the sea, but is located in the interior of a continent. If merchants from other countries made personal purchases in Europe, it was probably in port cities, if at all.
It would have been very inefficient for a merchant (or any other person) from Africa to travel to the interior of today's Europe with the travel possibilities of the time, there would have to be an extraordinary reason for this.
To my knowledge, the presence of people from sub-Saharan Africa in Bohemia at the times of KCD is also not historically justified, as Warhorse has repeatedly argued by themselves in their defense in the course of discussions when KCD 1 was released. That's why I find it strange to opt for such an ahistorical figure now, provided it's not a fake.

 

[Melcar]

It's over.

 

[NecroLord]

I'm excited for the sheer amount of new drip on offer in KCD2.

Bohemian DRIP.

 

[DKunit]

New Horsey Drip, as well.