KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[felipepepe]

I actually did think about writing a review, not with the presumption of it being on the front page but just to vent my disappointment with a sequel I was looking forward to after really liking the original. But I don't think it'd be right to do that without beating the game and I have no intention of trying to beat the game in its current state.

Yeah, this is probably the most disappointing game I've ever played. It's not that it's the worst game I've ever played, it's just the biggest let-down from what I expected. I was so hyped before I tried it because I thought the first module would allow me to play it with 10 different parties to try cool and different stuff. This mess is just insanity. It seems like Pierre's plan to fix this difficulty problem is to give options for max HP on level-ups and feats every two levels, but that's not really the kind of fixes I was hoping for.

Even if the current content is too extreme, the editor alone makes this a candidate for GOTY.

Hell, with the editor we can just edit the module and make a "non-bullshit" version. Delete some cultists, put a skeleton with some basic gear in the dungeon where you're teleported, make the ambush have 2-3 mimics, not 5, etc... most of the game's enemies have no script tied to them, you can just select & delete them, the module will play exactly as it is.

Takes time to do it, of course, but still faster than making a module from zero, especially if you already played the game. I might try to do a "redux" version of the initial map, just to see how it goes.

Fuck, it's actually much harder than I imagined... there's a lot of scripts that change the NPCs status from neutral to enemy, or start combat with a set group... if any NPC is missing from those scripts, he game crashes. Since you can't check "all scripts that reference this creature", you basically have to check every single script in the map & edit it to no longer reference the creatures you removed. Still doable, but 10x more work than I imagined.

Now I get it why Pierre wants to change a global factor like HP on level up instead of editing the module's content. :/

 

[Darth Canoli]

felipepepe I played your module yesterday (still didn't touch augury of chaos), it's good but a bit claustrophobic.

Also checked the editor when i realized i didn't have enough gold to level up to try to remove that gold for level up nonsense but didn't find any option to do so, i hope it's not hardcoded...

Will review when i complete it.

I'll also my skills with the editor before the summer's end.

 

[felipepepe]

Also checked the editor when i realized i didn't have enough gold to level up to try to remove that gold for level up nonsense but didn't find any option to do so, i hope it's not hardcoded...

It is. Everything related to races, classes, feats, XP tables, item & equipment categories and things like that are hardcoded.

The editor is very powerful, you can make some very interesting scripts that change parts of the map, replace artwork, cast custom spells, set extremely specific combat tactics, play custom sounds (you could voice act an entire module if you want), etc... but those few core things can't be changed at all. The sandbox can be changed to anything you imagine, but you will always play in it with the same bucket & shovel.

So we can't add a Summoner class ourselves, nor make throwing weapons like Javelins. And you can't open doors mid-combat

While having restrictions always sound bad, KOTC2 already suffers from lack of restrains. Not sure having people play the game with custom OP stuff like "I'm a Mecha-Tarrasque" would improve the game.

 

[Darth Canoli]

And you can't open doors mid-combat

This one sucks too, i entered from a locked southern door (The half giant gladiator lost 2 CON ) and the first fight was against the beast and then the northern central room and my mage knight was locked out and couldn't get in from the other door...

So, no way to create new feats or spells either ?

 

[Mortmal]

Area round the castle cleared, everyone is 19-20, it's time to put this thing to bed.

Also noticed an odd bug, not sure if it's been reported, but if you scribe a scroll from a stack and then transfer another item into your inventory, the used up scroll goes back into the stack.

Everyone 19-20 after clearing everything outside ? Mine are 15-17...You banked xp ?

 

[Rpguy]

So, no way to create new feats or spells either ?

Feats no. Spells yes.

 

[Mortmal]

Tips megathread when?

Here you go bro I spent a few hours putting this tips mega compilation together for you

just win initiative

just reload

All right cruelio will also write the KOTC2 review .We can count on him for something accurate and short.

I actually did think about writing a review, not with the presumption of it being on the front page but just to vent my disappointment with a sequel I was looking forward to after really liking the original. But I don't think it'd be right to do that without beating the game and I have no intention of trying to beat the game in its current state.

You can beat it too i will update the pro tips list : WIn init , reload till you win init , Bank xp .
That said i am not too pleased either anymore.

 

[Daidre]

It is. Everything related to races, classes, feats, XP tables, item & equipment categories and things like that are hardcoded.

This is kinda horrible. Both IE games and NWNs always had the most of the races/classes/feats stuff in .2da that are notoriously easy to edit. I was adding new races to NWN 2 for personal use with only notepad and .dlg reader at my disposal. From recent examples, P:K modding scene is still alive thanks to easy rule editing and class/feats/spell packs.

While having restrictions always sound bad, KOTC2 already suffers from lack of restrains. Not sure having people play the game with custom OP stuff like "I'm a Mecha-Tarrasque" would improve the game.

So no, it is as bad as it sounds without excuses.

 

[Tweed]

Everyone 19-20 after clearing everything outside ? Mine are 15-17...You banked xp?

Yes, it's just about the only way, my level up map went like this:

Level 2 for sharkman druid, 3 for the cultist fight though some did it at 2.
Level 3 for mimics, the crypt, fire cave, and efreeti.
Level 5 for the solo goblin arena victor.
Level 6 or 7 for the king can't remember.
Level 7 for hydra, golem, chapter 3 starting fight, mimics, water passage, evil eyes, all slimes, psi beetle ambush and psi beetles next to the chess master, jarl and trolls, formian vs cultist fight, rust monsters, elementals and stalkers, minotaurs, and I think I got the gorgons as well.
Level 16 for everything else left in the sewers and everything around Gleegold keep.
Level 19-20 for the frontal assault.
Level 20-21 for final battles.

 

[Jasede]

For the record, I didn't XP bank at all in my winning run until Chapter 3, where I cleared the 'trash' (evil eyes, water passage, slimes, psi beetles, formians vs cultists, rust monsters, elementals + stalkers and minotaurs) before leveling up to do the hard encounters.
So it's sort of possible without banking or with very little banking; I was 17-18 at the gate fight.

However, nobody in my party EVER had Raise Dead cast on him, and nobody ever died in a fight - so there was no lost XP ever.

So, either bank or never use Raise Dead.

 

[Dickie]

Fuck, it's actually much harder than I imagined... there's a lot of scripts that change the NPCs status from neutral to enemy, or start combat with a set group... if any NPC is missing from those scripts, he game crashes. Since you can't check "all scripts that reference this creature", you basically have to check every single script in the map & edit it to no longer reference the creatures you removed. Still doable, but 10x more work than I imagined.

Now I get it why Pierre wants to change a global factor like HP on level up instead of editing the module's content. :/

Interesting. I think maybe it's the enemy levels and spell access that are a big part of the problem. It's rough having an underwater fight start with a dude using Quicksand on your two guys or having King Dickhead (level 13 vs your 5-7 party) cast spells like Summon Vrock or empowered Ice Storm when those are party killers.

 

[Dickie]

nobody ever died in a fight

I prefer to read this as you never had to reload a fight because your dudes were such badasses.

 

[Jasede]

I just don't get how some people can play this with sub 14 CON or sub 14 DEX PCs. <14 Dex and the reloading would kill me, < 14 Con and your HP would average too low to survive the massive AoE spam you are meant to take to the chin.

Also, feel free to sell every single armor you find because melee is NEVER the problem.

 

[Tweed]

Yeah, you can't afford to let anyone die without a true resurrection handy, the loss is too severe. Nobody ever died that didn't get a TR before the fight was over in my game. One big advantage to banking xp though is being able to level exactly when you need to, so a lot of crap that was white knuckled before becomes manageable now. By the end I had 3 people capable of throwing tornado blast, 3 people capable of casting prismatic void, and 2 people who could cast mass heal when needed on top of all the other helpful spells and powers. Sculpted energy cone and wave are absolute musts for psionics, spell penetration really seemed to help out I had to sacrifice some spell range for it, but that's ok.

I just don't get how some people can play this with sub 14 CON or sub 14 DEX PCs

Rock Kobolds are capped at 14 base dex in exchange for con and str and all kobold con scores are pretty bad.

I dunno what to do with myself now, this game has been my obsession since it came out.

 

[Jasede]

I don't know about you but here's my current obsession:

 

[Mortmal]

Yeah, you can't afford to let anyone die without a true resurrection handy, the loss is too severe. Nobody ever died that didn't get a TR before the fight was over in my game. One big advantage to banking xp though is being able to level exactly when you need to, so a lot of crap that was white knuckled before becomes manageable now. By the end I had 3 people capable of throwing tornado blast, 3 people capable of casting prismatic void, and 2 people who could cast mass heal when needed on top of all the other helpful spells and powers. Sculpted energy cone and wave are absolute musts for psionics, spell penetration really seemed to help out I had to sacrifice some spell range for it, but that's ok.

I just don't get how some people can play this with sub 14 CON or sub 14 DEX PCs

Rock Kobolds are capped at 14 base dex in exchange for con and str and all kobold con scores are pretty bad.

I dunno what to do with myself now, this game has been my obsession since it came out.

Wait for solasta ,realms beyond and BG3 ...

 

[Strange Fellow]

While having restrictions always sound bad, KOTC2 already suffers from lack of restrains. Not sure having people play the game with custom OP stuff like "I'm a Mecha-Tarrasque" would improve the game.

People can't make custom classes for use in their own modules made on their own time, and that's supposed to be a good thing? C'mon nigga

 

[felipepepe]

While having restrictions always sound bad, KOTC2 already suffers from lack of restrains. Not sure having people play the game with custom OP stuff like "I'm a Mecha-Tarrasque" would improve the game.

People can't make custom classes for use in their own modules made on their own time, and that's supposed to be a good thing? C'mon nigga

This is a one-man indie game that already has an amazing editor AND suffers from having too many exotic classes & races that are OP and turn the game into a min-max nightmare.

Yes, in an ideal world it would allow you to edit everything and be perfectly balanced. But right now I would prefer having a more restricted selection of races & classes, but a campaign that's actually playable by more than 1% of the player base. Especially since having such a terrible first module harms the game's potential more than any modding restrictions.

 

[Tweed]

How many people have finished the game so far?

 

[NJClaw]

how does this efreet at the end of the crypt work? he keeps destroying my party with awesome maneuvers like ->5 foot step + 2x spell like ability + full attack (4x), or move + wizard spell + 2 x SLA
I mean, why? This must be bugged, right?

Use the deep slumber scroll on him then hit him with the coup de grace. You still have the deep slumber scroll, right?

You don't need the Deep Slumber scroll. Just cover the entire area with Silence (you can keep your casters out of it) and maybe hit him with a Slow or something. By then, you can also easily reach level 5 with your Wizard, so you really don't need the scroll: just learn Deep Slumber as a level 3 spell and then respec it if you don't care about it.

 

[Strange Fellow]

While having restrictions always sound bad, KOTC2 already suffers from lack of restrains. Not sure having people play the game with custom OP stuff like "I'm a Mecha-Tarrasque" would improve the game.

People can't make custom classes for use in their own modules made on their own time, and that's supposed to be a good thing? C'mon nigga

This is a one-man indie game that already has an amazing editor AND suffers from having too many exotic classes & races that are OP and turn the game into a min-max nightmare.

Yes, in an ideal world it would allow you to edit everything and be perfectly balanced. But right now I would prefer having a more restricted selection of races & classes, but a campaign that's actually playable by more than 1% of the player base. Especially since having such a terrible first module harms the game's potential more than any modding restrictions.

That's really a different issue, and doesn't have anything to do with the editor itself. It's fine if implementing custom classes on top of everything else is too much work for one tiny Pierre all by his lonesome, I understand that, but that's no reason to pretend it wouldn't improve it.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Patch out yet?

 

[NJClaw]

I am curious how you did the Fire room without using any of the ice scrolls or the confusion scroll.

Wizard + Fighter (equipped with the outsider bane sword). As soon as the salamander approaches, you trip him with your fighter and attack for something around 40 damage. You can disable the elemental in many different ways: I went for a simple Glitterdust (I respecced him and took Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus, reaching a 65% success chance) and that was enough to render him useless (while blind, he couldn't hit anyone). When the salamander stands up that's another 40 damage with the AoO and he usually wastes his standard action to attack in melee (if he casts a fireball, that's an immediate reload). Another 40 damage with a melee attack in the next round and then you just need to take out the blind elemental and a single round should be enough to do that.

You can also blast the salamander with the wand that you find in the room if the fighter gets bad damage rolls, but you don't need that.

Both character were level 4.

 

[Dickie]

but a campaign that's actually playable by more than 1% of the player base.

And even the developer isn't in that 1%.

 

[Jasede]

One of the easiest fights in the entire game, too... shame on you, Pierre.