Vapourware KOTOR 2 Restoration Project (not the Restored Content Mod)

[Alec McCabe]

even during the first day after the leak I thought that they are still making this mod for the people.

Where does this come from? They've never been making it 'for the people', I thought, it's just a hobby for them.

I know they have a website and all, but really - who doesn't?

 

[Trash]

Oh come on.

 

[Alec McCabe]

You come on. Who really mods purely for other people? There are always elements of 'to see if I can do it' or 'because I want to do it' or 'because I think it should be done' alongside the 'other people will enjoy it', and a myriad other reasons. People find their own reasons to mod, can't do anything about it. Some find joy in seeing others use their creation; others enjoy the creation itself, etc etc etc.

So one group falls more towards one reason than another. ... fine, I guess?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Then why the site or the axing of the beta team? If they'd make it purely for themselves, they wouldn't have given a damn about the leak and carried on without any changes.

 

[Alec McCabe]

Would you want to carry on business as usual if there was someone you couldn't trust in your beta group? The method may be extreme, but I can understand the sentiment behind it; and they have a backlog of bugs to work on already.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

If you'd be making it purely for yourself or to see if you can do it, you most certainly wouldn't care. You're just making excuses here.

 

[aron searle]

Does not compute.

Why would you care about it being leaked if you're making it for yourself, why would you care about "trusting" the beta team to not leak it?

If you're making it for yourself that is.

And what has a backlog of bugs got to do with anything, they can just get a bunch of willing lackys to deal with bug reports if they can't be arsed to do it themselves, a point i made to them, and something other mod teams do.

But this is just one great big circle jerk, these points keep getting made and you lot are to busy rimming team gizka to answer such points with reason.

 

[Alec McCabe]

And I think you're being overly judgemental. A betrayal of trust is going to make you uncomfortable at the very least, especially when someone's taken liberties with the things you've made. This team aren't saintly hermits any more than they are cackling misers.

Making something for yourself and wanting it to be as complete as possible when other people see it are not mutually incompatible.

 

[mondblut]

I can't see what's wrong with it. Nobody in his right mind would play beta anyway.

How so? The majority of mods - those who employ sane development models, that is - are permanently a "beta", being regularly updated with new fixes and content, yet are used and enjoyed by everyone around.

Isn't Arcanum mod technically a beta, since it is still being worked on, not "finished"?

 

[aron searle]

LALALAALALAAL finger in ears LALAALALALALA

If you can't answer a fucking simple question, fuck of back to you're forums where you can continue to circle jerk each other off.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

And I think you're being overly judgemental. A betrayal of trust is going to make you uncomfortable at the very least, especially when someone's taken liberties with the things you've made. This team aren't saintly hermits any more than they are cackling misers.

You seem to be ignoring what you say: That they're making the mod for themselves.

In that case, you'd place trust for the testers to 1) find the bugs and report them 2) not sabotage your work 3) not take your work as theirs

And no, none of those has happened. Nobody is passing TG's work as their own or harming their progress in any way.

But maybe they haven't been making the mod for themselves, eh?

 

[aron searle]

using logic with these people is about as productive as trying to discuss something with cleve blakemore.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

using logic with these people is about as productive as trying to discuss something with cleve blakemore.

True.

Let's go back to more effective tactics...

PLANE TICKETS BITCH!!!

 

[Ander Vinz]

I can't see what's wrong with it. Nobody in his right mind would play beta anyway.

How so? The majority of mods - those who employ sane development models, that is - are permanently a "beta", being regularly updated with new fixes and content, yet are used and enjoyed by everyone around.

If team gizka used an open beta approach there won't be *any* game-breaking bugs left because they've been already reported and fixed.

Isn't Arcanum mod technically a beta, since it is still being worked on, not "finished"?

It's finished until someone finds a new bug. Same with Killap's and Wesp's patches.

even during the first day after the leak I thought that they are still making this mod for the people.

Where does this come from? They've never been making it 'for the people', I thought, it's just a hobby for them.
I know they have a website and all, but really - who doesn't?

How come I don't have my own forum yet?

'to see if I can do it' or 'because I want to do it' or 'because I think it should be done'

What about 'I'll have a lot of fanboys'?

 

[aron searle]

Can someone name me a popular but buggy game, that at present has no mod teams working on it.

I get wet at the thought of having such fanboys rimming me on demand, it looks quite appealing. I would like to start my own "fake" mod and a website....

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Daggerfall.

 

[MetalCraze]

even during the first day after the leak I thought that they are still making this mod for the people.

Where does this come from? They've never been making it 'for the people', I thought, it's just a hobby for them.

I know they have a website and all, but really - who doesn't?

why the fuck will you have a forum where you will let people discuss your mod (Though only in a good light) if you don't plan to share it with them in the first place?
and this shit with "no fuckers, we won't let you enjoy 1.0b10 by moving files" - how to call this? TG is nothing more but a bunch of attention whores right now. I'm glad that mod was leaked.
at least now we have not ideal but better KotOR2 and a bunch of butthurt individuals who perfectly knew it would've came to them sooner or later.
it was damn 3.5 years man. KotOR2 doesn't have THAT much cut content.
if you can't finish your mod - then get out of the scene, share the source and let others finish it until the interest is there.

now before you will go with your traditional fanboy retarded defense a la "then why nobody did start a parallel mod?" - nobody will bother with parallel mods especially at this point. in 2005 people just thought that TG will actually move their butt to finish it so nobody else bothered.

 

[Ander Vinz]

and this shit with "no fuckers, we won't let you enjoy 1.0b10 by moving files" - how to call this?

Don't be such a crybaby. You'll be able to finish the game twice before they move to 1.0b10. And then occasionally you'll get fed up with KOTOR2 and AoD will come out.

 

[jaylittle]

Fuck 1.0b10. It could be years before that gets released. As for the autoupdate - has anybody actually tried it? When Dashus mentioned it to me, I was skeptical as it is all too easy to move the files. On top of that, I have no fucking clue what the auto updater is capable of. And neither do any of you. I have no idea what information it would transmit back and forth between me and TG. I have no idea what capabilities it has in regards to updating / deleting / uploading / downloading files.

I personally have not tried it. A healthy dose of paranoia keeps me from going the distance in that regard. Frankly the game was immeasurably better with 1.0b8 and I've already beaten it using that. A few bugs here and there but there was nothing truly game breaking.

As far as I am concerned, future versions are meaningless. The major reasons for needing a mod like TSLRP in the first place have been addressed in the current 1.0b8 leak. TSLRP 1.0b8 is a much better experience than TSL was. TSLRP 1.0 will surely be better, but given the speed at which they work on the TG team, I could be drawing social security before then.

At the end of the day: It's just a game folks. TSLRP 1.0b8 is your best shot at playing a complete version of TSL nowadays. And regardless of how much douchebaggery we are seeing from the TG forum mods and fanbois, the devs themselves have been fairly evenhanded about this whole thing. Sure they are slow, but Dashus comment to me seemed to imply that while disappointed, they weren't too surprised. He's a realist.

As for copyright issues, the worst part of the mod (which they are claiming copyright for) is the part where their custom voice overs are used (r.e. Kaylee character in Jedi Enclave). The quality is shit. It adds a bit to the game sure, but claiming copyright on those voice overs is like claiming copyright on the pile of shit my dog just dropped in your front yard.

 

[OccupatedVoid]

I, for one, can not wait until registration is open again. :twisted:

 

[MetalCraze]

Don't be such a crybaby. You'll be able to finish the game twice before they move to 1.0b10. And then occasionally you'll get fed up with KOTOR2 and AoD will come out.

I don't care about 1.0b10 that much, I'm just surprised how TG continues to prove that they are douchebags at every corner.

the closed registrations thing is just lol. first their trolls attacked the Codex, but when the Codex came to them it was too hardcore for them to handle. it was just 1 topic that forced them to tremble in fear before our own trolls. it's even not like Codex spammed every popular thread there with tubgirl and goatse

 

[aron searle]

On the auto update

The next one will be going through a different channel, and AFAIK it won't be possible to update.

It's been said, but i couldn't see if anyone actually said it here, so copy/paste.

There seems to be no reason for this other than them being a bunch of petulant little fuckers.

And they're still banging on about an open beta just causing massive amounts of duplicate reports, even though the solution to that has been suggested to them (and it's not rocket science).

I, for one, can not wait until registration is open again. Twisted Evil

I never had the intention of trolling their boards the first time, and tried to be reasonable.

The codex has made me a new man, they have taught me the value of trolling.

Long live the KKKODEX!

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Long live the KKKODEX!

We're not fans of Mr. Blakemore you know...

 

[aron searle]

Long live the KKKODEX!

We're not fans of Mr. Blakemore you know...

I have seen the general discussion board y'know.

 

[jaylittle]

Oh and in case you are still reading Pastrami, I guess I wasn't successfully IP banned from TG afterall:

The problem is that the closed beta testers were chosen for a reason - ie maturity, intelligence etc etc, you get the idea.

That's why the lot of you leaked the thing and got shut out, right? Oh wait, you are the white knight. The only new tester not kicked off the team. You know what I think? That you leaked it and sold everybody else out in an effort to hide the truth and save your own ass. Congratulations, it worked.

Anyway with the leak of TSLRP, everyone can get it (though they shouldn't). If TG allowed everyone to post bugs though, there would be a massive number posted of bugs (a) already solved, (b) already reported, and (c) not existing.

Absolutely clueless. Already solved bugs wouldn't be bugs and therefore wouldn't exist to be reported. Unless you are referring to the handful of fixes that were made for 1.0b9. In which opening the process and allowing the community at large access to interim beta builds would solve that problem. Already reported bugs doesn't seem to be an issue for the thousands upon thousands of open source projects and game mods already out there, so I'll discount that one purely on the basis of your ignorance. Not existing? Heh. When this leak first hit, you and crew ran around and chanted the "it's buggy as shit don't download it or your computer will blow up" mantra time and time again. Now you are worried about people reporting non-existant bugs. Get your story straight Darth Windu.

EDIT: err...no. As a modder myself I know EXACTLY how I do things, exactly what I've done and how I've done it.

Your comments betray your true lack of experience. You've never written a line of code in your life, much less debugged a large codebase. You have no idea how things work in an open source development project. You have no idea how collaborative development works. Writing a half baked proposal for crappy Star Wars game mods, does not make you a modder much less a developer.

So kindly climb off your high horse and stop acting like you are God on Earth. Those of us that have done the background research on you know better. Note: If anybody is interested in viewing the full range of Darth Windu's experience as well as his body of available work, you need go no further than here.

Wouldn't the added step of reviewing the fix and implementing it (as well as getting it in the first place) increase the time spent on an individual bug?

It would appear to myself as well as other observers of this project that the bulk of the time is spent on actually getting around to coding the fix and cataloging it appropriately. It is the development that is lagging behind the testing, not the other way around. Checking the validity of submitted fixes can be done via testers and doesn't necessarily require a full fledged developer. I think the risk TG would run in opening the development process would be showing the world that in fact over large periods of time, things aren't being done. They appear to get into spurts of development, but then they stop again. As a fellow developer, I understand this. My personal projects often flow in the same sort of way. However I don't go out of my way to hide it either.

Silence, that's the kind of thing you PM to people. If you have a problem with something that someone says talk to them privately about it. If you can't come to a resolution, then you talk to a moderator. Publicly insulting people is not cool.

Really? Since when? My name has been raped in these forums since this leak hit the net. I've been publicly blamed and torn to bits here and on other forums by members of these forums. Darth Windu and PastramiX are the primary offenders in this regard. However there have been others. Team Gizka itself has been very reserved and realistic in their approach to this situation. Their mostly now ex-beta testers have not been. The forum mods here have also operated with less than stunning integrity in the last week. So for you to claim that such rants should be taken to private messages is laughable at best. Stop being hypocritical.

So are you saying that NO ONE else on the internet is capable of doing this?

That's exactly what Darth Windu is saying. Of course I think his ego is due to take a bit of a dive once people start cruising over to his personal website and check out the work he claims makes him a "modder".

I'm saying if you have someone come in and change something while you're still working on the mod, it's going to probably mess everything up. Especially with something as complex as the Restoration Project.

Yeah because writing a script for an RPG game is "complex". Give me a break. The task may be difficult because of the state the TSL code was left in after completion, but to call it "complex" is just over the top ass kissing. Just stop already. TG has a download for the source code to this mod on their website and it's certainly not "complex".

I didn't think I would ever come back here. Truthfully, I didn't want to ever come back here. The truth is that I got everything I wanted out of this project when I downloaded the leak from TBP and played through it. Team Gizka has restored the flawed masterpiece of K2:TSL to it's rightful place on the RPG totem pole. The conduct of the people here however serves only to detract from that however. Clearly Team Gizka is not interested in going the open source route. That's fine. It's their decision. But a year from now, when this project continues to drag on, and the fanbois here look back, I want you to consider this moment. Consider that at this moment a decision could've been made that took this project in a different direction when you are scouring torrent sites for the leaked beta download a year from now.

Consider that the beta test team that leaked this thing (or was blamed for it) may have been trying to send the developers and the community here a message. Remember that the point has been missed. Also remember that out of all the beta testers to kick to the curb, keeping Darth Windu was a spectacularly poor decision. His conduct during this incident serves only to show me as well as others that he has something to hide in all of this. He managed to survive the cut, but I suspect he has something driving him personally to act like such an asshole about it. Perhaps it's a inbred fear that somebody will stumble upon his crappy website with his crappy mod design documents. Or perhaps there is something else there.... perhaps he is the leaker. Perhaps he screwed a lot of people to maintain his position in the face of all this. He has a hardon for me obviously, so who would put it past him to upload a torrent using a username very similar to one that I use here? He couldn't register the same one because I already had that username on TBP. That is of course the fatal flaw of his plan.

Nevertheless, this is my final post here at Team Gizka. It however is not because I will almost surely be banned after this post. Nor is it because of the fact that I've already circumvented at least open IP ban to get back in here. It is because this community and the concept it embodies are dead to me.

That's just in case they delete the post.