Achdulieber
Literate
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2023
- Messages
- 7
Well, thank God.
That's a whole lot of words just to miss the point. It doesn't matter that this site is dedicated to CRPGs, the fact of the matter is that every single CRPG that followed the late 1990s either wanted to be Baldur's Gate or Diablo. And that includes Freedom Force, which doesn't come up nearly as much as Baldur's Gate ever did since you're talking about interviews with one guy about one game series that was popular for a time and then vanished. I'm talking every. single. AAA published. CRPG wanted to be either Baldur's Gate or Diablo in the 2000s.But this is a site specifically catering to CRPG fans
It’s hilarious that you think kids didn’t play M rated games.
Doom, or at least some version of it, (probably Final Doom) used to be set up on computers at Walmart in those years they used to do that.
Were you a teenage before 1996, or were you a teenage in the late 2000s when the PC boom had ended and that average person that would’ve been buying a nice PC before was maybe getting a laptop that wasn’t much good for playing video games...and then even later just getting a tablet. Maybe the Walmart stuff clued you into this, but I don’t live in Europe, and everyone I knew as a kid, before I was a teen, had a pretty nice PC they could play video games on by at least 1997.
Let’s take a look at those KickStarter numbers for Obsidians’ spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate: Pillars of Eternity (Project Eternity) - 73,986 backers. Now, if a game was only ever bought by 75,000 people, would you be arguing that it was some well known successfully brand that guaranteed future sales in the millions for some sequel? By 2016 it’s sales were at 700,000. That is not a big game that everyone knows of. Those are not big numbers.
That's a whole lot of words just to miss the point. It doesn't matter that this site is dedicated to CRPGs, the fact of the matter is that every single CRPG that followed the late 1990s either wanted to be Baldur's Gate or Diablo. And that includes Freedom Force, which doesn't come up nearly as much as Baldur's Gate ever did since you're talking about interviews with one guy about one game series that was popular for a time and then vanished. I'm talking every. single. AAA published. CRPG wanted to be either Baldur's Gate or Diablo in the 2000s.But this is a site specifically catering to CRPG fans
So, with the partial exception of the first... Complete shit?You start getting stuff like Nox, Arcanum’s real-time combat system, and the real-time combat aspect of Fallout Tactics.
It’s hilarious that you think kids didn’t play M rated games.
Some did. I'd say most did not.
There was a massive political shitstorm in the mid-90s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993–94_United_States_Senate_hearings_on_video_games
Politicians freaked out about Night Trap, a campy fmv game with no blood or gore or nudity, simply because it depicted actresses in peril (whom you're supposed to save, not hurt). The culture was not laissez faire about this, though it became moreso in the 00s.
Doom, or at least some version of it, (probably Final Doom) used to be set up on computers at Walmart in those years they used to do that.
No way. Walmart wouldn't even sell cds with the explicit content sticker, all their albums were clean/censored. They weren't going to expose small kiddies to blood and gore.
Were you a teenage before 1996, or were you a teenage in the late 2000s when the PC boom had ended and that average person that would’ve been buying a nice PC before was maybe getting a laptop that wasn’t much good for playing video games...and then even later just getting a tablet. Maybe the Walmart stuff clued you into this, but I don’t live in Europe, and everyone I knew as a kid, before I was a teen, had a pretty nice PC they could play video games on by at least 1997.
I was a teen in the late 90s/early 00s. I see you come from wealth. Wealthy people in the US are a minority.
My family's financial status was atypical, but I'd say most of my peers were middle/working class and most didn't have computers up until I switched high schools where the crowd was more upper-middle-class, more teens with computers.
Let’s take a look at those KickStarter numbers for Obsidians’ spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate: Pillars of Eternity (Project Eternity) - 73,986 backers. Now, if a game was only ever bought by 75,000 people, would you be arguing that it was some well known successfully brand that guaranteed future sales in the millions for some sequel? By 2016 it’s sales were at 700,000. That is not a big game that everyone knows of. Those are not big numbers.
Just because millions of people aren't interested in buying it doesn't mean they haven't heard of it. After Bioware, Beamdog, Obsidian went on and on about Baldur's Gate to sell their own newer products, not to mention all the many journalists who compared Divinity Original Sin to Baldur's Gate (much to Swen's annoyance who was at least glad they finally stopped comparing it to Diablo) it's reasonable to say that the millions of people who had PCs and Steam knew what Baldur's Gate was when they bought BG3. "People who don't play games or only play console games never heard of Baldur's Gate before," likely true. But BG3 can only be bought by people with internet connections and Steam accounts, they sure as hell know what it is.
Assisted Living Godzilla How old are you? This isn't a snarky question as it seems you are looking at the 1990s through the lens of today's video game market size. Back in the 90s "gaming" was still relatively smaller and when one spoke of "gaming" you thought table-top or board game. The % of people that computer gamed and knew of BG was quite large as there were so few true cRPGs available. You can't just look at sales numbers at the time and say anyone hardly noticed this game, especially compared to today's numbers. At the time if you knew anything about computer games, which was an adult market w/ consoles (Nintendo) clearly a kid's box, it was DOMINATED by BG and Diablo. So the percentage of players that were aware of these games was huge when compared to the percentage of today's gamers where there are literally thousands of choices that dilute awareness.
Plus it was D&D! That was, and still is, THE role-playing game so it being branded as such only increased its visibility. It was in every rpg magazine (adverts & articles) at the time.
Assisted Living Godzilla How old are you? This isn't a snarky question as it seems you are looking at the 1990s through the lens of today's video game market size. Back in the 90s "gaming" was still relatively smaller and when one spoke of "gaming" you thought table-top or board game. The % of people that computer gamed and knew of BG was quite large as there were so few true cRPGs available. You can't just look at sales numbers at the time and say anyone hardly noticed this game, especially compared to today's numbers. At the time if you knew anything about computer games, which was an adult market w/ consoles (Nintendo) clearly a kid's box, it was DOMINATED by BG and Diablo. So the percentage of players that were aware of these games was huge when compared to the percentage of today's gamers where there are literally thousands of choices that dilute awareness.
Plus it was D&D! That was, and still is, THE role-playing game so it being branded as such only increased its visibility. It was in every rpg magazine (adverts & articles) at the time.
In the year which the first Baldur's Gate came out (1998), Starcraft came out and that game sold 11 million copies by 1999. I think it is ridiculous to pretend BG was anyway near as "dominating" as Starcraft. Also TSR was bankrupted and sold to WOTC in 1997 and D&D was in a dark place then until 3rd ed was released, after BG2.
Previous page man: "StarCraft's worldwide sales reached 4 million units by July 2001; South Korea accounted for 50% of these copies"In the year which the first Baldur's Gate came out (1998), Starcraft came out and that game sold 11 million copies by 1999.
Assisted Living Godzilla How old are you? This isn't a snarky question as it seems you are looking at the 1990s through the lens of today's video game market size. Back in the 90s "gaming" was still relatively smaller and when one spoke of "gaming" you thought table-top or board game. The % of people that computer gamed and knew of BG was quite large as there were so few true cRPGs available. You can't just look at sales numbers at the time and say anyone hardly noticed this game, especially compared to today's numbers. At the time if you knew anything about computer games, which was an adult market w/ consoles (Nintendo) clearly a kid's box, it was DOMINATED by BG and Diablo. So the percentage of players that were aware of these games was huge when compared to the percentage of today's gamers where there are literally thousands of choices that dilute awareness.
Plus it was D&D! That was, and still is, THE role-playing game so it being branded as such only increased its visibility. It was in every rpg magazine (adverts & articles) at the time.
IGN said:This data comes from PC Data, and according to them represents some 80% of the US retail market, based on units sold by forty-two retail and mail order chains.
Rank Title Publisher 1 Starcraft Cendant Software 2 Deer Hunter GT Interactive 3 Myst Learning Company 4 Titanic Cendant Software 5 Flight Simulator Microsoft 6 Diablo Cendant Software 7 Cabela's Big Game Hunter Activision 8 Lego Island Learning Company 9 Riven Learning Company 10 Age of Empires Microsoft 11 Unreal GT Interactive 12 Deer Hunter II 3D GT Interactive 13 Frogger Hasbro Interactive 14 Quake II Activision 15 Monopoly Hasbro Interactive 16 Links LS Golf 98 Access Software 17 Rocky Mountain Trophy Hunter GT Interactive 18 Star Wars Rebellion LucasArts 19 NASCAR II Cendant Software 20 SimCity 2000 SE Electronic Arts
Source: PC Data Take-Two Takes TalonSoft Maryland-based wargaming house acquired in stock swap. Shortly before the holiday break, Take-Two Interactive announced that it had completed its acquisition of TalonSoft.
Assisted Living Godzilla Perhaps I should have said RPGing. Regards, we're all talking in circles and you won't convince me that BG was just a small largely unknown niche game. I lived that era (as an adult not kiddy consoler) and know it was one of THEE games to be released that year based on gaming mags (both video and table-top), online and physical store adverts and chatter (EB, Egghead, etc.). I will once again say that if your "theory" were correct then why even use the name Baldur's Gate let alone put a 3 on it.... You use the name because it carries with it a following/fan base, nostalgia, built in name recognition, etc. Marketing 101
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I am not so sure :When all this news broke of them walking away from BG Swen also stated their next game won't be the "Big RPG" he's talked about over the years.Yet sven recently said their next game will dwarf BG3. From gamespot interview:I feel like the safe guess is to just assume they'll make another game with gameplay similar to the two D:OS games and BG3, but with a smaller scopeSo...what now for Larian? As was said, Bioware and Obsidian ditched what they were good at and started experimenting with dumb shit with results being what they are.
"Prior to development on Baldur's Gate 3, Larian CEO Swen Vincke was already planning out the company's future, and this included what he calls "the very big RPG that will dwarf them all."
3D Tetris VR in 8k by Larian Studios!I am not so sure :When all this news broke of them walking away from BG Swen also stated their next game won't be the "Big RPG" he's talked about over the years.Yet sven recently said their next game will dwarf BG3. From gamespot interview:I feel like the safe guess is to just assume they'll make another game with gameplay similar to the two D:OS games and BG3, but with a smaller scopeSo...what now for Larian? As was said, Bioware and Obsidian ditched what they were good at and started experimenting with dumb shit with results being what they are.
"Prior to development on Baldur's Gate 3, Larian CEO Swen Vincke was already planning out the company's future, and this included what he calls "the very big RPG that will dwarf them all."
“I don’t know if we’re going to pull it off, but looking at our narrative, visual and gameplay plans, I think what we’re working on now will be our best work ever. I get excited like a kid watching the key imagery, want to show it to everyone now and grumble in frustration at having to wait until it’s actually all working. Yes, it’s hype but it’s hype because it really looks and feels good.” - Excited Swen, April 17th 2024.
I'm going to doubt it, but there is no doubt in my mind that Larian is a developer that actually gives a shit about their properties. While I never finished D:OS2, I had the PC version for quite a while when they released the Switch version. Then they released the Switch patch which made it so your save games on PC could be ported over to the Switch and then back again to the PC. So, I bought the Switch version when I caught it on sale as well, because not many developers actually go that far when it comes to ports of their games.Yeah, there is some brand recognition going with DnD and Baldur's Gate series, but the biggest draw for the crowd were Larian's Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2. No doubt about it.
There's larian written on it, i'll buy it anyway.3D Tetris VR in 8k by Larian Studios!I am not so sure :When all this news broke of them walking away from BG Swen also stated their next game won't be the "Big RPG" he's talked about over the years.Yet sven recently said their next game will dwarf BG3. From gamespot interview:I feel like the safe guess is to just assume they'll make another game with gameplay similar to the two D:OS games and BG3, but with a smaller scopeSo...what now for Larian? As was said, Bioware and Obsidian ditched what they were good at and started experimenting with dumb shit with results being what they are.
"Prior to development on Baldur's Gate 3, Larian CEO Swen Vincke was already planning out the company's future, and this included what he calls "the very big RPG that will dwarf them all."
“I don’t know if we’re going to pull it off, but looking at our narrative, visual and gameplay plans, I think what we’re working on now will be our best work ever. I get excited like a kid watching the key imagery, want to show it to everyone now and grumble in frustration at having to wait until it’s actually all working. Yes, it’s hype but it’s hype because it really looks and feels good.” - Excited Swen, April 17th 2024.
"You can almost feel the blocks in your hand!" -- Swen
It's not about the money, it's about sending a message.While I can’t honestly say I have any particular affection for D&D/Forgotten Realms as a setting, what I find a bit perplexing about this move of stepping immediately away from the license from Larian is… How wasteful it feels in terms of assets.
They had tons of models, animations, creatures, spells and so on specifically modeled around D&D and they barely had a chance to make full use of them even in BG3, where often some types of enemies barely showed up for a single, semi hidden fight.
Doing more with some of these in a sequel, let’s say in the way BG2 expanded significantly on the first, sounded like a natural follow up.
And a very cost-effective one.
While I can’t honestly say I have any particular affection for D&D/Forgotten Realms as a setting, what I find a bit perplexing about this move of stepping immediately away from the license from Larian is… How wasteful it feels in terms of assets.
They had tons of models, animations, creatures, spells and so on specifically modeled around D&D and they barely had a chance to make full use of them even in BG3, where often some types of enemies barely showed up for a single, semi hidden fight.
Doing more with some of these in a sequel, let’s say in the way BG2 expanded significantly on the first, sounded like a natural follow up.
And a very cost-effective one.
The largest draw for the crowd is "look you can fuck a bear". Also the early access let people play the game's best part which lead people to have a misjudgement about the quality of the game.Yeah, there is some brand recognition going with DnD and Baldur's Gate series, but the biggest draw for the crowd were Larian's Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2. No doubt about it.
The largest draw for the crowd is "look you can fuck a bear". Also the early access let people play the game's best part which lead people to have a misjudgement about the quality of the game.Yeah, there is some brand recognition going with DnD and Baldur's Gate series, but the biggest draw for the crowd were Larian's Divinity: Original Sin 1 & 2. No doubt about it.
Original Sin series is nowhere near as important as some people thinks.