Last Epoch - time travel action-RPG

[Peachcurl]

and with strange aeons even death may die

 

[somerandomdude]

With Path of Exile 2 around the corner and Diablo 4, this game is going to be fucking dead. Its only value will be in the single player offline for players who don't want to play online.

There's enough of a market for all three.

Ok, then what is it about this game in particular that sets it apart from anything else out there? Gameplay wise, IMO it's patently mediocre. It's as mediocre as a game like Warhammer: Chaosbringer, or Van Helsing: Final Cut. I actually had more fun playing those games than this game. So, we got a mediocre ARPG with an always-online DRM. I guess that's to keep people from enjoying the game how they want with mods.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Don't forget that the main monetization scheme for LE is gonna be a cosmetic cash shop. The devs have their heads in the clouds if they think that's gonna fly without making the base game a lot better than what it is right now.

 

[somerandomdude]

Don't forget that the main monetization scheme for LE is gonna be a cosmetic cash shop. The devs have their heads in the clouds if they think that's gonna fly without making the base game a lot better than what it is right now.

Yep, pay to play on top of MTX monetization, the game better set a new gold standard for the ARPG genre, or it's not gonna go over well. They don't have a big name recognition like Diablo, so they won't get away with what Blizzard does. It's gonna be even more of a disaster if they go back on their word for a single player offline option at launch. Because then it's going to be obvious that they killed single player offline simply out of greed for their MTX model, which would honestly make them no better than the worst offending game studios out there.

 

[Peachcurl]

With Path of Exile 2 around the corner and Diablo 4, this game is going to be fucking dead. Its only value will be in the single player offline for players who don't want to play online.

There's enough of a market for all three.

Ok, then what is it about this game in particular that sets it apart from anything else out there? Gameplay wise, IMO it's patently mediocre. It's as mediocre as a game like Warhammer: Chaosbringer, or Van Helsing: Final Cut. I actually had more fun playing those games than this game. So, we got a mediocre ARPG with an always-online DRM. I guess that's to keep people from enjoying the game how they want with mods.

Warhammer Chaosbane was extremely shallow. Next to meaningless itemization. Luckily also quite short.

Van Helsing was fun, agreed. There's other games that are fun in this genre. Like W40k Inquisitor. Or Grim Dawn.

So what?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

they're looking for games to be addicted to and spend 4k+ hours on, not games you play through the campaign once

they need to go to dopamine addicts anonymous

 

[pickmeister]

Yeah, this genre is dead.

that which was never alive can never truly be dead

Stillborns are dead too, you bigot.

they're looking for games to be addicted to and spend 4k+ hours on, not games you play through the campaign once

they need to go to dopamine addicts anonymous

Never looked at them as a bunch of cokeheads. Explains a lot. Like why I can never keep up with them.

 

[Dadd]

They should've focused on making single player as good as possible. How would they compete against Path of Exile and Diablo 2?

 

[ADL]

How would they compete against Path of Exile

Step 1.) Slow the gameplay down
Step 2.) Don't have $300 "micro"transactions in your store
ezpz

 

[rusty_shackleford]

They should've focused on making single player as good as possible. How would they compete against Path of Exile and Diablo 2?

by using he/him pronouns?

 

[somerandomdude]

they're looking for games to be addicted to and spend 4k+ hours on, not games you play through the campaign once

they need to go to dopamine addicts anonymous

I honestly prefer a straight up campaign, something 40, 60, 80hrs. But that's clearly not what Last Epoch is aiming for. They're looking to compete with the heavy hitters like PoE for the type of audience you're talking about, and the MTX monetization is also targeted to that audience as well.

 

[somerandomdude]

With Path of Exile 2 around the corner and Diablo 4, this game is going to be fucking dead. Its only value will be in the single player offline for players who don't want to play online.

There's enough of a market for all three.

Ok, then what is it about this game in particular that sets it apart from anything else out there? Gameplay wise, IMO it's patently mediocre. It's as mediocre as a game like Warhammer: Chaosbringer, or Van Helsing: Final Cut. I actually had more fun playing those games than this game. So, we got a mediocre ARPG with an always-online DRM. I guess that's to keep people from enjoying the game how they want with mods.

Warhammer Chaosbane was extremely shallow. Next to meaningless itemization. Luckily also quite short.

Van Helsing was fun, agreed. There's other games that are fun in this genre. Like W40k Inquisitor. Or Grim Dawn.

So what?

I didn't think Warhammer was too bad, I enjoyed zooming around with a mage like I had enigma runeword from Diablo 2, and nuking stuff with fire and lighting.

Chaos 10 is an intentional slough, but Chaos 8 clear speed was considerably faster. I most definitely didn't farm gear at 10.


And to respond to the "so what?" The problem with Last Epoch, is the game isn't sophisticated enough, and the studio is dramatically over reaching with their expectations with their general model for this game. It's a case of someone aiming for the stars and massively under delivering. Their goal shouldn't be Path of Exile, it should be reigned in to be a single player offline game without online DRM login, and maybe go the route that crate did with Grim Dawn. People will make mods for the game, and maybe people can enjoy it. The game isn't good enough, and won't ever be good enough to be played as a hardcore time sink ARPG game, yet that's what they're shooting for. And that also sums up the reason why I can't enjoy the game even compared to other mediocre ARPG installments like Warhammer, or Van Helsing.

 

[Peachcurl]

I didn't think Warhammer was too bad, I enjoyed zooming around with a mage like I had enigma runeword from Diablo 2, and nuking stuff with fire and lighting.

Chaos 10 is an intentional slough, but Chaos 8 clear speed was considerably faster. I most definitely didn't farm gear at 10.

And to respond to the "so what?" The problem with Last Epoch, is the game isn't sophisticated enough, and the studio is dramatically over reaching with their expectations with their general model for this game. It's a case of someone aiming for the stars and massively under delivering. Their goal shouldn't be Path of Exile, it should be reigned in to be a single player offline game without online DRM login, and maybe go the route that crate did with Grim Dawn. People will make mods for the game, and maybe people can enjoy it. The game isn't good enough, and won't ever be good enough to be played as a hardcore time sink ARPG game, yet that's what they're shooting for. And that also sums up the reason why I can't enjoy the game even compared to other mediocre ARPG installments like Warhammer, or Van Helsing.

Even in its current state, Last Epoch is already more sophisticated than Warhammer Chaosbane. Not just a bit. By an order of magnitude. Maybe they can't compete with PoE, although that mainly depends on how the late game content turns out in the end. We'll see. But sure, I'd prefer every game to be offline and moddable. It's unfortunately the exception.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I didn't think Warhammer was too bad, I enjoyed zooming around with a mage like I had enigma runeword from Diablo 2, and nuking stuff with fire and lighting.

Chaos 10 is an intentional slough, but Chaos 8 clear speed was considerably faster. I most definitely didn't farm gear at 10.

And to respond to the "so what?" The problem with Last Epoch, is the game isn't sophisticated enough, and the studio is dramatically over reaching with their expectations with their general model for this game. It's a case of someone aiming for the stars and massively under delivering. Their goal shouldn't be Path of Exile, it should be reigned in to be a single player offline game without online DRM login, and maybe go the route that crate did with Grim Dawn. People will make mods for the game, and maybe people can enjoy it. The game isn't good enough, and won't ever be good enough to be played as a hardcore time sink ARPG game, yet that's what they're shooting for. And that also sums up the reason why I can't enjoy the game even compared to other mediocre ARPG installments like Warhammer, or Van Helsing.

Even in its current state, Last Epoch is already more sophisticated than Warhammer Chaosbane. Not just a bit. By an order of magnitude. Maybe they can't compete with PoE, although that mainly depends on how the late game content turns out in the end. We'll see. But sure, I'd prefer every game to be offline and moddable. It's unfortunately the exception.

Chaosbane was so janky and shit, it was one of the worst entries in the genre I've played and I played Darkstone ffs. (It's better than Darkstone, but what isn't?)

 

[somerandomdude]

I didn't think Warhammer was too bad, I enjoyed zooming around with a mage like I had enigma runeword from Diablo 2, and nuking stuff with fire and lighting.

Chaos 10 is an intentional slough, but Chaos 8 clear speed was considerably faster. I most definitely didn't farm gear at 10.

And to respond to the "so what?" The problem with Last Epoch, is the game isn't sophisticated enough, and the studio is dramatically over reaching with their expectations with their general model for this game. It's a case of someone aiming for the stars and massively under delivering. Their goal shouldn't be Path of Exile, it should be reigned in to be a single player offline game without online DRM login, and maybe go the route that crate did with Grim Dawn. People will make mods for the game, and maybe people can enjoy it. The game isn't good enough, and won't ever be good enough to be played as a hardcore time sink ARPG game, yet that's what they're shooting for. And that also sums up the reason why I can't enjoy the game even compared to other mediocre ARPG installments like Warhammer, or Van Helsing.

Even in its current state, Last Epoch is already more sophisticated than Warhammer Chaosbane. Not just a bit. By an order of magnitude. Maybe they can't compete with PoE, although that mainly depends on how the late game content turns out in the end. We'll see. But sure, I'd prefer every game to be offline and moddable. It's unfortunately the exception.

If Last Epoch ends up getting offline mode maybe I'll give it another shot. If not, it'll forget it even exists.

 

[somerandomdude]

I didn't think Warhammer was too bad, I enjoyed zooming around with a mage like I had enigma runeword from Diablo 2, and nuking stuff with fire and lighting.

Chaos 10 is an intentional slough, but Chaos 8 clear speed was considerably faster. I most definitely didn't farm gear at 10.

And to respond to the "so what?" The problem with Last Epoch, is the game isn't sophisticated enough, and the studio is dramatically over reaching with their expectations with their general model for this game. It's a case of someone aiming for the stars and massively under delivering. Their goal shouldn't be Path of Exile, it should be reigned in to be a single player offline game without online DRM login, and maybe go the route that crate did with Grim Dawn. People will make mods for the game, and maybe people can enjoy it. The game isn't good enough, and won't ever be good enough to be played as a hardcore time sink ARPG game, yet that's what they're shooting for. And that also sums up the reason why I can't enjoy the game even compared to other mediocre ARPG installments like Warhammer, or Van Helsing.

Even in its current state, Last Epoch is already more sophisticated than Warhammer Chaosbane. Not just a bit. By an order of magnitude. Maybe they can't compete with PoE, although that mainly depends on how the late game content turns out in the end. We'll see. But sure, I'd prefer every game to be offline and moddable. It's unfortunately the exception.

Chaosbane was so janky and shit, it was one of the worst entries in the genre I've played and I played Darkstone ffs. (It's better than Darkstone, but what isn't?)

The only class I liked playing in Chaosbane was the mage, I didn't care much for how the others played. The only reason I liked the mage, was zoom zoom and boom boom. The game also played fairly well on a controller, and most ARPG games don't. I could stream it to my big TV and play it on the couch with a pad.

 

[Tacgnol]

I didn't think Warhammer was too bad, I enjoyed zooming around with a mage like I had enigma runeword from Diablo 2, and nuking stuff with fire and lighting.

Chaos 10 is an intentional slough, but Chaos 8 clear speed was considerably faster. I most definitely didn't farm gear at 10.

And to respond to the "so what?" The problem with Last Epoch, is the game isn't sophisticated enough, and the studio is dramatically over reaching with their expectations with their general model for this game. It's a case of someone aiming for the stars and massively under delivering. Their goal shouldn't be Path of Exile, it should be reigned in to be a single player offline game without online DRM login, and maybe go the route that crate did with Grim Dawn. People will make mods for the game, and maybe people can enjoy it. The game isn't good enough, and won't ever be good enough to be played as a hardcore time sink ARPG game, yet that's what they're shooting for. And that also sums up the reason why I can't enjoy the game even compared to other mediocre ARPG installments like Warhammer, or Van Helsing.

Even in its current state, Last Epoch is already more sophisticated than Warhammer Chaosbane. Not just a bit. By an order of magnitude. Maybe they can't compete with PoE, although that mainly depends on how the late game content turns out in the end. We'll see. But sure, I'd prefer every game to be offline and moddable. It's unfortunately the exception.

They aren't planning to compete directly with POE anyway. They've already said their seasons/leagues will be timed around POEs to avoid direct competition.

 

[Poseidon00]

I wish "action RPG" meant 2D fighter or old school beat-em-up for once. The "action" part of Action RPGs always leaves so much to be desired.

 

[somerandomdude]

I wish "action RPG" meant 2D fighter or old school beat-em-up for once. The "action" part of Action RPGs always leaves so much to be desired.

ARPGs are about gear and builds, not skill. If you got the gear and the build you destroy the content. Git Gud = Git Bild in these games.

 

[Dadd]

Nioh and such games are also action rpgs aren't they?

 

[mediocrepoet]

Technically, I suppose. I still think that most people over a certain age will think of Diablo-likes if you say ARPG though, rather than Souls-likes. In fact, whereas Diablo clones started to be known as ARPGs, people refer to Nioh and similar games as Souls-likes or Soulsborne games. (The philistines!) I mean, technically Borderlands and similar games could also be called ARPGs, but they get termed as Looter Shooters. Ergo ARPGs refer to Diablo clones and not these other offshoots and mutations of the genre.

This has been your TED Talk.

 

[Saark]

Ok, then what is it about this game in particular that sets it apart from anything else out there?

Good crafting, an interesting take on the skill system that is a blend of the D3/Lost Ark tripod system with PoE's skill tree, and visuals that aren't a complete clusterfuck. It plays noticeably slower than both D3 and PoE at the peak of the end-game.

Ultimately, I doubt that any of the devs expected or even want to compete with or "beat" GGG/Blizzard. Judging by their interviews and engagement with their playerbase, they just made a game they wanted to play, and neither PoE nor D3 nor Grim Dawn gave them what they wanted out of the genre - but they still enjoyed those titles. So they decided to make their own game, take what they liked from other games with their own ideas, and see where it takes them. Obviously the game will be worse than PoE, which has seen active development for 10+ years, or the Diablo franchise, which exists for even longer than that now.

Making a game that makes sense to be developed from a financial point of view is a garbage way to design and develop a game anyway. The foundations in Last Epoch are solid, I genuinely enjoy the visual clarity over the high GRift clusterfucks or super juiced PoE maps, and both the crafting and skill system are a great base that can be built on for years to come.

 

[Perkel]

bought it tried it and it is effectively even more janky Wolcen without actually good things Wolcen did great like actual combat feel and skill customization that feels worse then in wolcen.

 

[Peachcurl]

Wolcen? Not even a contest, and that's comparing released&patched against early access. Skill customization in Wolcen is dreadfully boring. At release, the combat feel was okay-ish for melee, but completely fucked for projectiles.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Did they release the persistent multiplayer yet?