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Indie Legendary Journeys - a new open world blobber - now available on Early Access
- Thread starter Kevin French
- Start date
Thanks, I didn't say I didn't like it, but just what I took is that is was either intense or not at all. Imagine Ultima 7 but it was always the Battle music. Remember, I'll be playing this for 20+ hours and not all of it will be (I hope) fighting. Need some "down time" music as well.
Kevin French
Blind Monkey Games
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
- Messages
- 43
Thought I would talk about spell sytem. First up is acquisition and power.
Since my early days of playing RPGs (tabletop and electronic), I have played a magic user of some type. So, when it came time to work on the magic system
of The Eye of Baal, there are many systems to draw inspiration. I like aquisition of spells by finding or purchasing spellbooks vs. automatically knowing
your next set of spells when you level. So, you will need to purchase or find spellbooks during your adventures. Each spellbook represents the very basics
of that spell. As long as you have the appropriate magic skill, you will be able to learn that spell. Originally, I was going to have a check against an
Arcane Language or learning skill to see if the character could learn the spell with consumtion of the spellbook once read. But, I decided that was a
little be to "hard core" for most gamers these days - even the old timers like myself. Thus, you can learn it as long as you have the appropriate skill.
One system of a spells power increase was Everquest's. The next level of the spell became available as you leveled. I liked this from a "what do I want to do today" type of play.
I started down this path originally when I remembered what happens in the later part of the character's life. In the end, it seemed 90% of your spellbook was worthless (though I understood why it was setup).
I liked Might and Magic's system where a spell became more powerful as you increased your knowledge of a magic skill. This path made it more about the character's knowledge vs. how many monsters were bashed
upside their head.
So,I settled on the following:
A spell has a total of 4 ranks. Rank 1 is the base level of the spell.
A spell's base power increases as you increase the character's knowledge of the skill (Novice, Expert, Master) and your skill rank.
There are tomes in the world which can change the spell. Either its power or some of the mechanics of the spell. These tomes can be found in dungeons, shops, and as loot.
The tomes are ranked II, III, IV (I know, not very original). A II ranked tome can be used by novices, III by experts, and IV by masters. Of course, the higher skill can apply
the lower level tomes. Master in Fire Magic can use Firball II on their fireball spell if they have not done so before.
Let's look at a quick example:
I think this makes spell acquisition easy; but, provides the player a goal of increasing their spell's power. The IV tier tomes are not found in shops.
They will be results of quests, dungeon crawling, and loot drops (I'm thinking EQ style loot drops).
Casting a spell is similar to the melee combat system.
The chance of casting a spell is based on a percentage "TO CAST" roll.
This formula involves the Mind and Perception stats of the target; and, the Mind and Dexterity stats of the caster. Again, I tried to make stats important to both parties involved.
Failing a to cast roll results in a "fizzle" of the spell. So, your cleric may fail to cast that much needed healing spell on your warrior at the worst possible time. I know; I have had it happen
to me more than once during testing. Some may not like this; I find it a nice way to add chaos to a battle.
The caster's magic skill for the spell in use comes into play as well.
Back to that healing spell.
A cleric with high rank and leveled Healing Magic will almost always succeed. There is always a small percentage chance of failure.
So, increasing the cleric's knowledge (Novice, Expert, Master) and their adeptness (skill rank) in Healing Magic becomes important in preventing fizzles. I'll discuss skills in another post.
Just like melee combat, resists affect how a spell effect applies to the target. If casting a fireball on a monster immuned to fire damage, it doesn't matter how advanced the character's fire magic
is; the monster will not be affected by the fireball. On the other hand, if that monster is weak to fire based damage, that fireball could do double or triple damage.
Well, I hope that gives you something to think about. I appreciate the comments. And, enjoying the discussion.
Since my early days of playing RPGs (tabletop and electronic), I have played a magic user of some type. So, when it came time to work on the magic system
of The Eye of Baal, there are many systems to draw inspiration. I like aquisition of spells by finding or purchasing spellbooks vs. automatically knowing
your next set of spells when you level. So, you will need to purchase or find spellbooks during your adventures. Each spellbook represents the very basics
of that spell. As long as you have the appropriate magic skill, you will be able to learn that spell. Originally, I was going to have a check against an
Arcane Language or learning skill to see if the character could learn the spell with consumtion of the spellbook once read. But, I decided that was a
little be to "hard core" for most gamers these days - even the old timers like myself. Thus, you can learn it as long as you have the appropriate skill.
One system of a spells power increase was Everquest's. The next level of the spell became available as you leveled. I liked this from a "what do I want to do today" type of play.
I started down this path originally when I remembered what happens in the later part of the character's life. In the end, it seemed 90% of your spellbook was worthless (though I understood why it was setup).
I liked Might and Magic's system where a spell became more powerful as you increased your knowledge of a magic skill. This path made it more about the character's knowledge vs. how many monsters were bashed
upside their head.
So,I settled on the following:
A spell has a total of 4 ranks. Rank 1 is the base level of the spell.
A spell's base power increases as you increase the character's knowledge of the skill (Novice, Expert, Master) and your skill rank.
There are tomes in the world which can change the spell. Either its power or some of the mechanics of the spell. These tomes can be found in dungeons, shops, and as loot.
The tomes are ranked II, III, IV (I know, not very original). A II ranked tome can be used by novices, III by experts, and IV by masters. Of course, the higher skill can apply
the lower level tomes. Master in Fire Magic can use Firball II on their fireball spell if they have not done so before.
Let's look at a quick example:
Fireball I (base) spell.
It does 1d4 +1/skill rank fire damage to a single target.
Fireball IV (used Firball IV tome)
It does 3d6+1 +1/skill rank fire damage to a single target.
Some spells reduce their mana cost with each rank increase.
Some spells go from a single target to group target.
Some increase the duration of their effects with each rank.
It does 1d4 +1/skill rank fire damage to a single target.
Fireball IV (used Firball IV tome)
It does 3d6+1 +1/skill rank fire damage to a single target.
Some spells reduce their mana cost with each rank increase.
Some spells go from a single target to group target.
Some increase the duration of their effects with each rank.
I think this makes spell acquisition easy; but, provides the player a goal of increasing their spell's power. The IV tier tomes are not found in shops.
They will be results of quests, dungeon crawling, and loot drops (I'm thinking EQ style loot drops).
Casting a spell is similar to the melee combat system.
The chance of casting a spell is based on a percentage "TO CAST" roll.
This formula involves the Mind and Perception stats of the target; and, the Mind and Dexterity stats of the caster. Again, I tried to make stats important to both parties involved.
Failing a to cast roll results in a "fizzle" of the spell. So, your cleric may fail to cast that much needed healing spell on your warrior at the worst possible time. I know; I have had it happen
to me more than once during testing. Some may not like this; I find it a nice way to add chaos to a battle.
The caster's magic skill for the spell in use comes into play as well.
Back to that healing spell.
A cleric with high rank and leveled Healing Magic will almost always succeed. There is always a small percentage chance of failure.
So, increasing the cleric's knowledge (Novice, Expert, Master) and their adeptness (skill rank) in Healing Magic becomes important in preventing fizzles. I'll discuss skills in another post.
Just like melee combat, resists affect how a spell effect applies to the target. If casting a fireball on a monster immuned to fire damage, it doesn't matter how advanced the character's fire magic
is; the monster will not be affected by the fireball. On the other hand, if that monster is weak to fire based damage, that fireball could do double or triple damage.
Well, I hope that gives you something to think about. I appreciate the comments. And, enjoying the discussion.
Kevin French
Blind Monkey Games
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
- Messages
- 43
aweigh: I whole heartedly agree 100%. Since I have the core mechanics in place, I liked getting everyone's opinions on mapping systems. It's something that I have turned off right now (the original system that I did). And, will need to visit later.
Daemongar: excellent point. Might be one of the reasons I turn off music in games. It's the same pieces over and over.
Daemongar: excellent point. Might be one of the reasons I turn off music in games. It's the same pieces over and over.
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Without spoiling too much, will there be different competing factions in the game?
Kevin French
Blind Monkey Games
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
- Messages
- 43
My original plan was to include factions. However, with the amount of work that I would need to do, I haven't decided if they would be in on release. I'm on the fence. If they don't make it in for release, they would make it in a later update.
Factions would work a bit like Everquest (for those who played the game). Some mechanics I had in mind for factions are:
If your faction with the region's merchant guild is high enough, you could get a deep discount on purchases or a nice premium when selling your wares. Maybe certain jobs come open, etc (standard faction stuff these days).
The one idea that I have been toying around with is a character's choice in deity would be governed by faction; not picking it from a list. Do enough deeds for a certain god, your favor with that god goes up. If it reaches high enough, the god may bestow special abilities, protections, etc upon that character. But, this would mean falling out of favor with other gods. Now, if you start making the other gods happy, you would start to fall out of favor with the god that gave a character a special ability would take it back. Just a thought, haven't fully fleshed this idea out (or if it is even worth it).
Hope that is enough info.
Factions would work a bit like Everquest (for those who played the game). Some mechanics I had in mind for factions are:
If your faction with the region's merchant guild is high enough, you could get a deep discount on purchases or a nice premium when selling your wares. Maybe certain jobs come open, etc (standard faction stuff these days).
The one idea that I have been toying around with is a character's choice in deity would be governed by faction; not picking it from a list. Do enough deeds for a certain god, your favor with that god goes up. If it reaches high enough, the god may bestow special abilities, protections, etc upon that character. But, this would mean falling out of favor with other gods. Now, if you start making the other gods happy, you would start to fall out of favor with the god that gave a character a special ability would take it back. Just a thought, haven't fully fleshed this idea out (or if it is even worth it).
Hope that is enough info.
Kevin French
Blind Monkey Games
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
- Messages
- 43
Have a question for those who are following this thread. This involves with how you interact with NPCs in the world. Currently, to speak with NPCs in the game, you visit their place of business or house and click on the door. This brings up a "door menu" with either the NPCs located there or a list of options with the one NPC at that location. Similar to how Might and Magic 6 and The Quest work. I went this route because of the reduce NPC models I would need. I have plenty of portraits to represent the various denziens of Farmoor. Plus, the amount of time to either, create interior scenes or building models that you can enter.
I have been tempted to switch to 3D NPCs (click on the door of a house, it opens, you walk in and see the NPC standing there); in the end the same set of options are displayed for interacting with that NPC. I've played games with both styles. I'm fine with either one. From a developer's standpoint, switching to 3D NPCs would require more dev time. From a player's standpoint, it is a little more immersive.
So, what are your thoughts on this matter?
I have been tempted to switch to 3D NPCs (click on the door of a house, it opens, you walk in and see the NPC standing there); in the end the same set of options are displayed for interacting with that NPC. I've played games with both styles. I'm fine with either one. From a developer's standpoint, switching to 3D NPCs would require more dev time. From a player's standpoint, it is a little more immersive.
So, what are your thoughts on this matter?
2D portrait with a list of interactions in a menu.
No reason to waste dev time making a 3D model... what for? Not that it being 3D would matter to me I"M just saying I wouldn't think it superior merely different.
Something the Elminage games do is portray NPCs in the game world as a humanoid white shape and when you move onto their tile a 2D portrait appears with a list of interactions. I SAy this because you might want to place NPCs in the actual dungeon levels instead of sticking them all behind doors.
They also make them move around sometimes this way in the game world (humanoid white shape). This allows you to have that kind of thing in your game without making a 3D model.
Also bosses are presented as moving Red Shapes that track your movement. Another idea you might want to incorporate. Having bosses chase you around the map is quite thrilling.
No reason to waste dev time making a 3D model... what for? Not that it being 3D would matter to me I"M just saying I wouldn't think it superior merely different.
Something the Elminage games do is portray NPCs in the game world as a humanoid white shape and when you move onto their tile a 2D portrait appears with a list of interactions. I SAy this because you might want to place NPCs in the actual dungeon levels instead of sticking them all behind doors.
They also make them move around sometimes this way in the game world (humanoid white shape). This allows you to have that kind of thing in your game without making a 3D model.
Also bosses are presented as moving Red Shapes that track your movement. Another idea you might want to incorporate. Having bosses chase you around the map is quite thrilling.
Last edited:
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I think I prefer the whole 3d models approach, but it's def. not a deal-breaker if done the M&M6 way. It's just lower on my priority list than for example well done interactions, lets say a solid dialogue system as in W8 compared to Bioware's dialogue wheel. Also, if you have good portraits, maybe interactive ones, that can be a nice stylistic choice of its own
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I think it's good to be able to see the inside of the place - for example, Realms of Arkania also brings up just a 2D image with buttons when you click on a house, but the 2D image is that of the inside and the NPC. It's probably more work than even 3D models though. And your 3D models are pretty good, so I'd say go with that.
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I really like when factions actually compete or fight each other - so you get choices & consequences from joining one group and rising in its ranks. For example, something like getting increasingly difficult jobs that harm another faction (or two). It can be quite simple, like the T'Rang and Umpani in Wizardry 7.
For an indie RPG I think I would actually prefer menu houses. I get that it's cutting corners, but it's quite acceptable to me. It also allows you to have more structures in your cities so they feel a bit more populated. The problem with 3D interiors is not just dev time, but you also end up with a lot of copy paste interiors which can be less immersive.
Factions are good fun, I really like the idea of having a patron god decided through your actions. I'd even suggest that you could drop relations with a certain god enough to make them an enemy if you go with that. Just might be fun to have a dungeon gain an extra encounter with a monster/priest/curse trap brought by your enemy god triggered on relation being under a certain threshold for a little C&C. You'd probably have to have your gods pair up antagonistically for it to not be a clusterfuck though. i.e. improving relations with god A drops relations with god B & C, but really drops relations with god D.
Factions are good fun, I really like the idea of having a patron god decided through your actions. I'd even suggest that you could drop relations with a certain god enough to make them an enemy if you go with that. Just might be fun to have a dungeon gain an extra encounter with a monster/priest/curse trap brought by your enemy god triggered on relation being under a certain threshold for a little C&C. You'd probably have to have your gods pair up antagonistically for it to not be a clusterfuck though. i.e. improving relations with god A drops relations with god B & C, but really drops relations with god D.
Kevin French
Blind Monkey Games
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
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- 43
Lady Error: There is an interior picture shown when interacting with "door menus" based on the building. For instance, a tavern scene would be shown when visiting a tavern.
Grauken: Don't worry. No city menus.
aweigh : Never played Elminage. I really need to start playing games again instead of making one I seemed to have missed a few good ones.
Based on what I am seeing here, factions are liked (I like factions as well). I'll see what I can do to work the faction system in for the initial release instead of a later update. I'll probably have the system in place and an x number of factions to start with plans to add some more in a later update.
Grauken: Don't worry. No city menus.
aweigh : Never played Elminage. I really need to start playing games again instead of making one I seemed to have missed a few good ones.
Based on what I am seeing here, factions are liked (I like factions as well). I'll see what I can do to work the faction system in for the initial release instead of a later update. I'll probably have the system in place and an x number of factions to start with plans to add some more in a later update.
StarCrawlers uses factions to develop itemization and dungeon completion rewards as well as branching story paths (basically what dungeons open to the player and which close off).
The factions themselves don't actively compete against each other as Lady Error prefers but they inform a player's playthrough quite thoroughly in other ways.
Obviously this is because the game was a budget title, like all true blobbers are, which means there wasn't room to make factions more than just dungeon and loot parameters. In any case siding with one would produce mutually exclusive content so it achieves the same end.
EDIT: Some dungeons will sometimes present differing goals/objectives which align with a respective faction as well.
The factions themselves don't actively compete against each other as Lady Error prefers but they inform a player's playthrough quite thoroughly in other ways.
Obviously this is because the game was a budget title, like all true blobbers are, which means there wasn't room to make factions more than just dungeon and loot parameters. In any case siding with one would produce mutually exclusive content so it achieves the same end.
EDIT: Some dungeons will sometimes present differing goals/objectives which align with a respective faction as well.
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That sounds like a fun idea. Or maybe having something like several pairs of antagonistic gods, so you can either stay neutral or increase your allegiance to one of them. Gods could be about certain magic types: Water vs Fire, Air vs Earth, Divine vs Evil, Chaos vs Order, etc. So that maybe you can unlock the most powerful spells, items or quests only if you align enough with a particular god.
V_K
Arcane
Chiming in with a dissenting opinion, personally, I always found factions a rather dumb and contrived trope. Even hardcore cults have less group unity than a typical RPG faction. And it's particularly annoying when your char is forced to pick a side without the possibility to give the middle finger to everyone. I'd much rather have something like Arcanum's reputations and NPCs reacting individually to these reputations.
Gods-as-factions, on the other hand, sound like a much better idea - once again, as long as playing an atheist is also an option.
Gods-as-factions, on the other hand, sound like a much better idea - once again, as long as playing an atheist is also an option.
That's too simplistic. Something like Wu Xing kind of scheme would me more fun.
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I think in most RPG's with factions it's possible to give the middle finger to everyone. And the reputations are just a part of the overall 'competing factions' system.
Yeah, that's probably better. Or maybe something similar to AD&D and Planespace, eg. a True neutral god, Chaotic evil god, Lawful good god, etc.
V_K
Arcane
I don't mean numeric faction reputations but attribures like "Butcher of Stillwater" etc.
Off the top of my head - Gothic, PoE, Dragon Age 2, Witcher 2, Geneforge 5. It's a 50/50 at best.
Kevin French
Blind Monkey Games
- Joined
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- 43
Factions with the gods is based around alignments between the different members of the pantheon. By allying your (character or party, haven't figured out which yet) with one god, you get in with that god's allies; however, you offend their enemies. How that plays out in game, I haven't figured out.
One of the biggest things I wanted to do with factions is make it difficult to get back in the good graces of a faction you have totally ticked off. One thing about EQ that always bothered me. Yeah, I have obliterated your brethren for years...now, I offer you the muffins of allegiance.
mondblut that was the reason I chose 4 party members. I wanted you to think about your party make-up before you began your adventure. Something I always enjoyed. Plus, if you enjoyed the game, you might play it again with a different party to see how things play out.
I didn't do my update post this weekend - dealing with family issues. I've been cleaning up the spells this week. Making sure they all have the necessary notifications when the spell lands, damage, fizzled, etc. Nothing exciting to post about. I am looking into game capturing software (FRAPS, BandiCam, OBS, Windows, etc). I want to start posting some current game play videos. Just short videos of the core systems that are in place right now (combat, spells, crafting, gathering, quests, travelling, etc).
One of the biggest things I wanted to do with factions is make it difficult to get back in the good graces of a faction you have totally ticked off. One thing about EQ that always bothered me. Yeah, I have obliterated your brethren for years...now, I offer you the muffins of allegiance.
mondblut that was the reason I chose 4 party members. I wanted you to think about your party make-up before you began your adventure. Something I always enjoyed. Plus, if you enjoyed the game, you might play it again with a different party to see how things play out.
I didn't do my update post this weekend - dealing with family issues. I've been cleaning up the spells this week. Making sure they all have the necessary notifications when the spell lands, damage, fizzled, etc. Nothing exciting to post about. I am looking into game capturing software (FRAPS, BandiCam, OBS, Windows, etc). I want to start posting some current game play videos. Just short videos of the core systems that are in place right now (combat, spells, crafting, gathering, quests, travelling, etc).
Kevin French
Blind Monkey Games
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2018
- Messages
- 43
For those that are interested:
I have posted a few videos showing off the current alpha state of the game. They show the party creation screen (ignore the class icons from WoW, I forgot to remove those before I recorded the video
), some combat, me running from a group of goblins in combat, and visiting the local shaman on the island of Nerah's Landing.
And, for those who like to play early builds, bugs and all, I'm working on getting an alpha demo ready for release next month. The purpose of the release is to get some early player feedback of the systems that are in place. This is NOT a steam Early Access - that will be beta stage. The demo will consist of 3 outdoor zones and 1, maybe 2, dungeons. Here are some of the systems that will be in the demo:
I have posted a few videos showing off the current alpha state of the game. They show the party creation screen (ignore the class icons from WoW, I forgot to remove those before I recorded the video
), some combat, me running from a group of goblins in combat, and visiting the local shaman on the island of Nerah's Landing. And, for those who like to play early builds, bugs and all, I'm working on getting an alpha demo ready for release next month. The purpose of the release is to get some early player feedback of the systems that are in place. This is NOT a steam Early Access - that will be beta stage. The demo will consist of 3 outdoor zones and 1, maybe 2, dungeons. Here are some of the systems that will be in the demo:
- Party Creation
- Trainers
- Shops
- Spells
- Combat
- Travel (3 outdoor zones and 1 dungeon)
- Character Level Up
- Spell Tomes - used to increase the power of spells
- Quests - small quests, and the start of the main quest
- In game Map (current region and world)
- Crafting
- Save/Load
- Factions
- In game Map - points of interest are filled in as you explore the zone <- not sure if I am going to keep this; so, doing it with the starting zone only
- Options menu - currently just music and sound fx level
Looks fine!
Only thing I would comment is that you should allow selection/movement of the combat menu via keyboard keys (arrows) and then pressing Enter or whatever to select the option.
Oh, and you really should add a visual indicator of when a regular attack hits an enemy! It's sorely missing. It can be something as simple as a white line flashing onscreen, or some other type of simple shape.
Only thing I would comment is that you should allow selection/movement of the combat menu via keyboard keys (arrows) and then pressing Enter or whatever to select the option.
Oh, and you really should add a visual indicator of when a regular attack hits an enemy! It's sorely missing. It can be something as simple as a white line flashing onscreen, or some other type of simple shape.
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Looks pretty good indeed. One major thing that seems to be missing is damage or health reports in combat. There should be either a window with that information, or damage numbers (or health bar or all of it together) appearing above the enemies.
The inside of the house looks awesome actually. On the character creation screen, I'd just have to nitpick some of the color choices and fonts - eg. the title and button font needs more spacing between characters. And the modern arial font on the same screen as the "Old English" font do not really fit together well. But that's just minor stuff.
The inside of the house looks awesome actually. On the character creation screen, I'd just have to nitpick some of the color choices and fonts - eg. the title and button font needs more spacing between characters. And the modern arial font on the same screen as the "Old English" font do not really fit together well. But that's just minor stuff.
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