Lets finally settle the age old question: Is Jagged Alliance 2 an RPG?

[mibbles]

I still don't know what an RPG even is.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

The more important question, are Jagged Alliance 1 and Deadly Games RPGs?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Back when I lurked/just joined Mount & Blade-threads were in General Gaming, but not any longer.
Could someone enlighten me, why?

RPG Codex has adopted the official policy that any game is an RPG if it identifies as one, regardless of how lacking it is in RPG elements or whether it is closer to another established genre. Mount & Blade does not containany exploration elements but has been reassigned to the RPG forum due to its being categorized as an RPG elsewhere (Steam, GOG, et cetera). The last two decades have seen a proliferation of games describing themselves as RPGs while containing only a few RPG elements, e.g. Alpha Protocol, the "espionage RPG" that contains little espionage and where the RPG elements extend neither to combat nor to exploration, yet many people continue to take self-assigned genre identity at face value.

 

[Ol' Willy]

a proper espionage RPG

 

[fantadomat]

RPG Codex has adopted the official policy that any game is an RPG if it identifies as one, regardless of how lacking it is in RPG elements or whether it is closer to another established genre. Mount & Blade does not containany exploration elements but has been reassigned to the RPG forum due to its being categorized as an RPG elsewhere (Steam, GOG, et cetera). The last two decades have seen a proliferation of games describing themselves as RPGs while containing only a few RPG elements, e.g. Alpha Protocol, the "espionage RPG" that contains little espionage and where the RPG elements extend neither to combat nor to exploration, yet many people contain to take self-assigned genre identity at face value.

Nigga have you even played the fucking game? The skill increase affected both combat and exploration lol.

 

[Lord_Potato]

RPG Codex has adopted the official policy that any game is an RPG if it identifies as one, regardless of how lacking it is in RPG elements or whether it is closer to another established genre. Mount & Blade does not containany exploration elements but has been reassigned to the RPG forum due to its being categorized as an RPG elsewhere (Steam, GOG, et cetera). The last two decades have seen a proliferation of games describing themselves as RPGs while containing only a few RPG elements, e.g. Alpha Protocol, the "espionage RPG" that contains little espionage and where the RPG elements extend neither to combat nor to exploration, yet many people contain to take self-assigned genre identity at face value.

Nigga have you even played the fucking game? The skill increase affected both combat and exploration lol.

True. The increase is dramatic, especially with stealth and pistols. Rifles, on the other hand, I used throughout the game without much skillpoint investment. They were so good out of the box and stayed so until the very end.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

If at least one cRPG in the world deserves to be considered good, it is JA2.

Everyone who thinks otherwise is worse than woke black Gypsyjew pro-Trump social-vatnik soviet fascist fluid-gender lesbogays from resetera/4chan/twitter.

 

[Sweeper]

If at least one cRPG in the world deserves to be considered good, it is JA2.

Why would you want JA2 to be an RPG?
RPGs fucking suck dick, always have.
JA2 is above them, beyond them.

 

[mondblut]

So people who rotate their party in Baldur's Gate 1 (which is definitely possible considering the amount of recruitable party members in that game) don't consider it an RPG?

That's fair. I can accept JA2 not being an RPG if BG1 isn't, either.

I dunno, ask them. As far as I am concerned, if you constantly dismiss party members and replace them with new ones, you are doing it wrong.

 

[Bony Hands]

It's a safer bet to call it a turn based tactics game, but that genre already shares a lot of blood with RPGs anyway.

 

[mondblut]

That's a pretty good answer, but I would also add that it matters if you roll a custom merc and treat him as your "main PC".

We roll 6 custom mercs and treat them as "main party"

You could use a stable party in Enemy Unknown too, but imo that doesn't increase the RPG-ness of it.

You have to be very lucky and really good at XCom to keep the same squad throughout the game without constant attrition and regular losses. Regardless, a mission-based game cannot be an RPG, ever. That's what separated the original roleplaying game from squad tactics to begin with.

 

[octavius]

Regardless, a mission-based game cannot be an RPG, ever. That's what separated the original roleplaying game from squad tactics to begin with.

Hmm...Pool of Radiance?

 

[mondblut]

Regardless, a mission-based game cannot be an RPG, ever. That's what separated the original roleplaying game from squad tactics to begin with.

Hmm...Pool of Radiance?

There is nothing mission-based in Pool of Radiance save for the choice of word for the council quests.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Regardless, a mission-based game cannot be an RPG, ever.

harebrained's shadowrun games

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

It's on the spectrum.

More so than say, Witcher 3

Eh i could only find this!

 

[mondblut]

Regardless, a mission-based game cannot be an RPG, ever.

harebrained's shadowrun games

Beats me, haven't played. But if they are indeed briefing-scenario-debriefing crap, RPGs they are not.

 

[Zibniyat]

For a place priding itself with loving (good) RPGs, it's really shocking that it still has no official stand on what an RPG is, or its definition. And then to use said stand to cover games properly, meaning if a game does not satisfy the definition it does not get covered as an RPG.

Maybe you are all just try-hards after all?

And for those saying "well if it markets itself as an RPG, then it is one", then I suppose that settles it. An RPG is what markets itself as one. Needless to say how utterly idiotic and even horrific such a definition would be, but at this point I expect nothing better from the Codex either.

 

[mondblut]

For a place priding itself with loving (good) RPGs, it's really shocking that it still has no official stand on what an RPG is, or its definition.

We are democracy here, not caliphate.

 

[Cleric of Asmodeus]

It’s pointless, ahab

 

[Shadenuat]

JA2 is more an RPG than many which call themselves so and is a better game than most of them, so I think we can give it a break and forgive it for actually having good combat and call it RPG.

 

[fantadomat]

RPG Codex has adopted the official policy that any game is an RPG if it identifies as one, regardless of how lacking it is in RPG elements or whether it is closer to another established genre. Mount & Blade does not containany exploration elements but has been reassigned to the RPG forum due to its being categorized as an RPG elsewhere (Steam, GOG, et cetera). The last two decades have seen a proliferation of games describing themselves as RPGs while containing only a few RPG elements, e.g. Alpha Protocol, the "espionage RPG" that contains little espionage and where the RPG elements extend neither to combat nor to exploration, yet many people contain to take self-assigned genre identity at face value.

Nigga have you even played the fucking game? The skill increase affected both combat and exploration lol.

True. The increase is dramatic, especially with stealth and pistols. Rifles, on the other hand, I used throughout the game without much skillpoint investment. They were so good out of the box and stayed so until the very end.

Yeah,rifles were a bit lame,i preferred to punch people in the face. Dumped the rest in to computers and electronics or what ever their names were.

 

[Corvinus]

Hardly pointless. The discussion is ongoing because of ignorance on part of those who plays games and those that make them. I think this holds more than a little merit:

The original Dungeons and Dragons, the first role-playing game*, was born out of wargaming, and could be viewed as a continuation of the wargame Chainmail. In fact, it references Chainmail on many occasions, perhaps most notably that you are given the choice to resolve combat using the Chainmail rules - or by using the D20-based Alternative System. Which still assumes that you are familiar with the Chainmail rules.

So, what is a wargame?
It's a tabletop game where you control a score of soldiers and you send them to murder the soldiers of your opponent. A simulation of warfare, especially skirmishes, and beyond. Essentially, early D&D is the same but the focus is on controlling one character instead of many. However, it was not uncommon for (the original) players to play with multiple characters, knowing full well that casualties were to be expected. It was also normal to hire mercenaries and other aides. While dungeons were common places to visit, D&D was also a game of exploration, and included rules for overland, aerial and overseas travel, pursuit and combat, complete with unique encounter tables and more.

What then, is the definition of a RPG? I'd say it is - obviously - a game that is similar to the original D&D. So is Jagged Alliance 2 a RPG? It has all the elements of one right down to the wargame roots. So yes, Jagged Alliance 2 is a RPG.

With this, the discussion is settled permanently.

While anyone can claim that Call of Duty or why not Rape Games on SNES are RPGs, because "they have story and you control a character" it does not make it so, and arguments in that direction leads to the ignorant trash definition used here on the 'Dex and elsewhere, when anything and everything can be a RPG.


*Unsurprisingly, games with role-playing elements had existed before this, but D&D was the most successful and the genre maker. It is what 1993 Doom is for first-person shooters (known as "Doom Clones" in 90's lingo).



EDIT: If you want to know more about the background of D&D I recommend this site as a very good starting point.

 

[Percy]

Maybe if you killed rats or had homosex it could be considered a RPG

 

[Zibniyat]

For a place priding itself with loving (good) RPGs, it's really shocking that it still has no official stand on what an RPG is, or its definition.

We are democracy here, not caliphate.

You are simply stupid, politics in this case has nothing to do with it.

 

[Darth Canoli]

harebrained's shadowrun games

Beats me, haven't played. But if they are indeed briefing-scenario-debriefing crap, RPGs they are not.

Shadowrun disguised its mission based core with a useless city hub you can explore but everything happening there is mission dependent...
It also happen to be smaller and less interesting than Arroyo.

In a parallel universe, Troïka didn't go bankrupt and developed an actually good if not amazing true Shadowrun cRPG, unfortunately, we're stuck on this one so it's better not to touch it even with a ten feet pole.