Let's Play VtM: Night Empire

[SCO]

No one sees the wisdom in my nosie warren scheme?

Guess i need to up mani... persuasion.

And invite Nos in is extreme dangerous. Do remember Nos are professional information sellers. With sufficient monetary reasons, the which many barons can give, they will sell our secret in a heartbeat.

And we are predicting an attack directly at our residence. It simply make sense to fortify the place anyway we can.

They would sell ... what exactly: their own sub-warren layout and possible entrance?
We are MORE in danger of being "sold out" right now. Do you think that Cripps doesn't know what a air current underground MEANS? He actually lead Sommers into the inner chamber.
Indeed, he says it:

You glance around the mithraeum once more, with mingled admiration for the grandeur of the place and contempt for its wastefulness. On the other side of the pool, Cripps idly kicks out with his hob-nailed boots, apparently immune to curiosity, and calls out, harshly,
“Doors.”

You glance back and note with interest that the heavy metal doors, fitted onto rollers, are equipped with thick deadbolts. Someone might blast through them with enough explosives, but they’d certainly provide a moderate obstacle to any attackers.

Suddenly, you catch it – incredibly faint, playing about your cheeks, the gentlest of breezes.
Of course, you think. When dawn finally comes, you’re standing alone, your enemies gathered around you…you’re nothing without an escape route.

It's only Sommers insecurity that leads him to discard Cripps seeing where the exit is. He can pretty much find it at will, especially considering there are NO GUARDS.


PS: Ahhhh a elegant assassination attempt on our boy would be to tip off the hunters and sabotage the methane in the exit-trap and/or just put something very heavy on the lid. If he doesn't die outright, considering the lack of guards or a surveillance network to alert him, he's trapped/followed without a contingency. A bolthole can very easily be turned into a trap on both ends.... think about it - just a phone call... and the people you believe will "sell you out" already know. Are you willing to risk using dominate on Cripps - that, btw, is probably lower generation that you - for making him "forget"?

 

[laclongquan]

You are slightly tip me into that direction... but no. Sure, it's one thing for a Nos of our entourage to know about this secret, the loss of which mean we can easily identify the source, it's totally another Kine's neck when we give that secret to another faction with god know how many members. I can agree to it if there's more benefits, angles, and facts support this move, which mean in future. As of now I cant.

 

[SCO]

Giving a favor to be immediately redeemed is gauche. And it gives them negotiating leverage, instead of a generic favor for us, because of they will know what the tit for the tat is, and can stall for better terms, because we'd probably be desperate. And this way, they would watch and guard this way out without it being a "favor" you see? Double for nothing.

They would need time to actually fortify it and moving people there too, waiting until we have hunters breathing down our neck is not good policy.

 

[SerratedBiz]

I'd be more worried about us not knowing exactly what we'll get from this exchange. They owe us a favor, yes. And when we come collecting, what's stopping them from saying no? "We absolutely can't do -that- but, please, come by again."

 

[SCO]

Normally, if the favors were roughly equivalent, that would be grounds for other clans not to reply to their obligations to the offending clan: if they don't act on good faith on this structure, the public face of the camarilla is weakened.

However, you're right to be worried: this is a special situation, both because of the place (a embarrassment to both the Toreador and the Ventrue - which would draw heat on us) and the nature of clan Nosferatu (I assume they hold most boons as they are more or less indispensable as the eyes of the Camarilla).

Because there is no prince, we'd have to privately appeal to the next up on the chain - the venetian councilor - which would probably not go well for anyone.

I doubt the nossies are moronic enough to let us do that though. If they really really don't want to do what we want, expect to die soon. Mysteriously. But they'll probably do it. As long as it's not totally stupid obligation that is, otherwise, they explain the situation to the councilor and he/her/it will punish us for wasting his/hers/its time.

resuming: don't be a ass about what you eventually ask and it will go fine.
Might be useful in the prince selection, if we can get other clans to come around - don't you want to be king makers? How do you think it's done: use obligations to make them see they want to do something they have allies to do.

The ventrue will never support us if we don't deal with Turcov. The Toreador will probably be pissed if they find out we sold their forgotten failure. The Grangel are already sounding us out and want to play at king. The Nosferatu seem to blow with the wind (the impression i got from Oscar), but are influential. The Tremere are in shambles (if the council dude is Tremere he's probably going to focus on them - he's a potential danger to the scheme and a possible prince). The Malkavians... err, moving on, the camarilla Brujah we never meet the higher ups, but we fought with their soldiers in that fight with the ravnos where 1 died (bad) but where we avenged him (good) - and we actually dealt a blow to the sabbat, that is good reputation for them.

 

[SCO]

Resuming: we need to build goodwill among the clans to play to our strengths during the prince selection. Which is politics, since we are certainly never going to dominate any other vampire.

Laclongquan idea of trying to give the idea of being top dog with a empty deck will only make us another competitor for the "prize". Instead, be a facilitator, a faction builder.
I don't mean we can't be nasty once in a while. In fact, I hope you all are considering ways to sabotage the probable ambitions of the foreigner about to come "set things right". Alienate the local clan representatives while a majority of them are actually talking under his nose would be a good way for that.

Let's hope he's not Ventrue otherwise we are probably _fucked_ and will need to support him, because to do otherwise we'd need to backstab both him and Tucov (or god forbid... be made puppet prince ourselves).
But don't rush into anything, see how he presents himself first.

 

[laclongquan]

Look, a show of force down south doesnt make us a contender for the throne, as our very bloodline's rank make it unlikely. Nobody but absolutely nobody will think we are a serious candidate.

What it does is setting us as a force to reckon with, a baron with real fangs.

And it draws the Southern barons to us, as they hope to get some inconspicuous help to deal with Sabbat. They expect us to help them with the south in return for some public recognition of our worthiness, so that we no longer an upstart.

That is their expectation and we can play into that well, using our manipulator skill.

 

[SCO]

Wait until the sabbat is actually TRYING to do something will you? They'll just say "good job chap but we could have handled that, and who were those handsome kine in camouflage?"

And trying to use them for a actual boon (ie: a bargain) is what we need. You don't go do their job, and THEN ask for a reward and expect them to bite like if this was bloody baldur's gate.

 

[ironyuri]

Look, a show of force down south doesnt make us a contender for the throne, as our very bloodline's rank make it unlikely. Nobody but absolutely nobody will think we are a serious candidate.

What it does is setting us as a force to reckon with, a baron with real fangs.

And it draws the Southern barons to us, as they hope to get some inconspicuous help to deal with Sabbat. They expect us to help them with the south in return for some public recognition of our worthiness, so that we no longer an upstart.

That is their expectation and we can play into that well, using our manipulator skill.

That choice is no longer on the table til grotsnik gives it to us as a possibility again. Focus on choices at hand:

The bankers, the scruffy kindred (Vogel?), visit Op. Wistman OR track down "Mandrake".

Two contact building options (one kine, one kindred), one option to shore up our power base, and one intrigue/quest option.

We used to have alot of kindred we could contact if shit hit the fan: We've lost the Ravnos (whose name I forget), we've lost Erika, we've lost Griddle, we've lost Oscar, we've lost Don Jameson, we've lost Samantha Earnes, we've lost Turcov.

As it stands, the number of kindred Sommers can count on to provide information, alliance, materiel support (materiel as in, armed support) or even just friendship (as it exists in kindred society) can be counted on ONE hand.

I'd also like to remind everyone flopping to (P)hone Humphrey Trentbridge, that Antonia does not live at our old Whitehall residence, unless grotsnik is implying that she has been moved into our less grand, old haven, now that we've taken Witanhurst. In the last campaign, if we needed Antonia's services after dark, we had to contact her and have her come over. Maybe grotsnik can clarify, but the choice to go wait on the scruffy kindred might preclude seeing Antonia, and I feel we really need to start working on the 'Mandrake' thread, or it could punish us. It's a loose end we should tie up as soon as possible before the Venetian Envoy arrives, for the simple reason that if someone exposes Sommers and breaks the Masquerade, it gives the other barons a reason to stake him out for a sunrise with no questions asked. As a Ventrue, Sommers' ability to preserve the Masquerade against threats, while maintaining strong kine networks, might be seen as highly valuable, if risky.

I also still think it's best to leave the mithraeum as it is. Giving it to the Nosferatu might not be the worst idea, but it's not the best. We'd lose face with all other high humanity kindred in the Camarilla, we'd gain an ally that is at best, dubious. Remember Sommers' trip to the sewers, he was laughed out by Jack, the Nos primogen, and barely escaped with his (un)life during the Sabbat raid. The Nos don't hold Sommers in high regard and would more than likely hang him out to dry if they as much as desired it on a whim. Meanwhile, fortifying it or rebuilding it draws unecessary attention to the place. A compromise might be to have Cripps organise for the tunnel and methane to be rigged as a single fire trap. If Anthony ever has to use the bolt hole, he's fucked already and won't live to see the end of the campaign, especially with the little resources he has.

Think about this: Anthony is attacked 2 nights from now- he uses the bolt hole. He escapes. Where does he go? He has no kindred that would *happily* take him in, especially if he is attacked by a more powerful baron (or Turcov). If he is attacked by hunters, the other barons might just let him be found and staked to give them a casus belli to bring war to the hunters. If he gets attacked by Sabbat, the other barons might let him be killed so they can claim prestige when they take revenge for the death of one of London's worthiest Ventrue barons (at least that's how they'd spin it). The fact we have the bolt hole right now is good enough, but it's a last resort. Knowing it's there gives us an out, but now we need to start building up what CappenVarra said, a wall of kindred and kine to fortify our position. A bolt hole is no use if we don't have a fortress to defend it.

 

[SCO]

Duh, that's what i was looking for, but i don't want to only survive this, i want to be a Basi... err primogen.

Are you going to get a obligation of whatever wall of kindred you get around you, or are you going to have to be in their debt?

 

[laclongquan]

Since I vote for going to Whitehall,
+ Anthony can check on existing Mandrake leads from that central position, if Mandrake has anything to do with Kine politicians.
+ As the scruffy Kindred want to meet the next night there, we can meet him and therefore no need to call Antonina to check on him. It's implied Antonina work for us at our Whitehall office but stay at our old resident house, not Wittanhurst.
+ Reinforce our core power base, which is Whitehall politicians. Visit it semi-regularly IS a good idea.
+ As long as we hold Whitehall securely in our grasp, we have a refuge there. No Kindred dare attack there straight on for fear of breaking the Masquerade, other than Sabbat. And dont forget, funding for the ghoul hitsquad come from Kine government.

As for the reinforcement of the base, dont be a cheapstake. We got money, we got a big fat glittering residence, it's late trying to keep low profile. Defend our castle, by itself, is an important politic goal. You can try attacking Anthony's home but dont expect to win.

 

[ironyuri]

Lac, you've misunderstood grotsnik's post. I re-read it to be sure, myself:

Antonia left us a message saying a scruffy looking kindred had visited. He will return tomorrow evening at the same time. The ball is also tomorrow evening.

The options are mutually exclusive. Would you rather snub a kindred, or a kine?

Vogler, a Baron in Swansea (Wales) is described as: "“Anything else on him?” you ask, pointing at a blurry photograph of a bony-looking Gangrel, with a ragged beard and a pair of fashionable sunglasses, deep in conversation on a wretched-looking high street. “A Baron in Swansea? I didn’t even realise we had a council there.”
“As it happens, we don’t,” Costello says, puffing out a delicate wisp of smoke. “I’m reliably informed it’s little more than a gang of independents and ne’er-do-wells – but Vogler’s a fine self-promoter and they say he has someone’s ear. He’s asked for information about you, in fact; could be you won’t have to even approach him.”"

Alot of you, and especially you, if I remember, Lac, have been talking about getting Schiller back. We've already made some ties to the Hampstead Heath gangrel and if we can forge an alliance with a gangrel baron who is not Camarilla affiliated, we might be able to bring the London gangrel back into the fold. That would do better things for our political position as a Ventrue powerbroker than most anything else on our plate at the moment. If nothing else, a gangrel ally might lead us to Erika and bring her back on side with Tony.

We can go to the ball, or see Vogler (if Vogler it is), we can't do both.

 

[laclongquan]

I made it quite clearly that I vote for going to Whitehall to meet this chap, didnt I? that is BBBBB

I admit, the possibility of this option lead to renew contact with Erika Schiller is tiny, and I didnt mean to use it to find her. However, if it leads to her: PURE GRAVY!

EDIT: and no, A is meeting Trentbridge and it's assuredly not at Whitehall. Man is out of government already.

 

[ironyuri]

I made it quite clearly that I vote for going to Whitehall to meet this chap, didnt I? that is BBBBB

I admit, the possibility of this option lead to renew contact with Erika Schiller is tiny, and I didnt mean to use it to find her. However, if it leads to her: PURE GRAVY!

EDIT: and no, A is meeting Trentbridge and it's assuredly not at Whitehall. Man is out of government already.

Haha, sorry, bro. I thought you were flopping to A given your previous post.

"Anthony can check on existing Mandrake leads from that central position, if Mandrake has anything to do with Kine politicians.
+ As the scruffy Kindred want to meet the next night there, we can meet him and therefore no need to call Antonina to check on him. It's implied Antonina work for us at our Whitehall office but stay at our old resident house, not Wittanhurst."

Thought you were saying we could keep the scruffy one waiting. Well, if we're not phoning Antonia, we should at least tell her in person that we want her to start working on Mandrake. Need to use our nights as effectively as possible, and phoning Humphrey means we'd be using two contact options.

If we have Antonia follow up Mandrake, we have one contact (w/ Vogler) and one intrigue option. Also, if we don't track down Mandrake quickly, it'll start causing problems for our kine contacts. No point consolidating with Humphrey when it could lead to us being exposed.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

I would leave whitehall as it is (option C). Right now its biggest advangage is secrecy. I'll give that the NOS will probably know about it, but (atm) only Crips and the ones he reports to will know. If we renovate it (in any way) the secret is probably going to go right away. "Oh, lots of workmen going into and out of the place? How about a quick talk to them". This means that any increase in the security of the bolt hole is balanced by the lack of secrecy (also it not like the secret entrance can be fortified *that* much. The fact that money even comes up shows that Anthony is hurting for that a bit. This means that a lot of money for null gain (+def but with -secret) is not a good way to spend resources, and he certainly could not afford a second renovation to act as coverage. Conversly, I don't even credit trying to turn it into a showpiece. Not only is Anthony too low a status to have much luck getting kindred (of merit) to visit, but the whole thing stinks (at best) of new wealth, like cutting the pages in the Great Gadsby's library.

Deciding where to go, IMO, it clearly is option A. If I was Anthony, keeping up ties with with our powerbase (read: the kine) is more important than meeting some scruffy kindred who *could* be Vogel, or is just likely be some Malk who will spend the whole night telling us about the oncoming Ghenna. I don't know much about how long the ball will go, but since we know the kindred is coming back we could tell him either a) Anthony will be happy to meet him the following night, b) he has a prior engagement for early evening, but he will meet him at around 0200, or c) here is a cell phone so they can talk more easily (either information or to set up a meeting).

Speaking of phone calls. I would call Edgar. We don't want him to drift away, and calling to check in is a way to keep up (and measure a bit) the ties of loyalty (not as good as a face to face, but better than nothing). Oh, and if he happens to have a couple of spare landmines lying around then we can use them to do a "fortification" of our bolt hole that not even Crips may know about (P.S. a landmine makes a great "trigger" for methene). Don't push though, it is not worth stressing our bond with Edgar over the mines.

 

[ironyuri]

Unless grotsnik starts trolling us, he has always been very good in creating a tight narrative. It's unlikely he'd introduce some random Malk as a dead-end plot, when he introduced a Welsh gangrel baron who wants to contact us and now has a "scruffy kindred" coming to our residence. He has come once, he will come only once more.

If we snub him, that's a kindred who has "someone's ear" down the drain. If we go to the ball, we'll become tabloid fodder (again), which could further erode our position or make Anthony a target for the hunters.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

I understand that one should "always take the sidequests", but that feels a bet meta-gamey in this narrative. If we don't go to the ball then not only do we not strengthen the kine ties that, but we cause our host to lose face (he promised the board they'd finally meet the us), and this will likely weaken our connections. Remember, this is the guy who kept the prince waiting to meet a prior engagement. I still don't think it is either wise, or in character, to drop everything for some unknow kindred. I still stick with leaving a message and offer to meet later shows consideration without compromising us.

Frankly, if Anthony has to worry about the costs of renovations then getting on the board of a couple of banks should be a nice way to up the reserves. Being able to throw money at a problem can often be swiss-army solution, even among the kindred.

P.S. we don't know he will come only once more, only that he will return again (although he might be pissed at being forced to wait).

 

[Kz3r0]

I understand that one should "always take the sidequests", but that feels a bet meta-gamey in this narrative. If we don't go to the ball then not only do we not strengthen the kine ties that, but we cause our host to lose face (he promised the board they'd finally meet the us), and this will likely weaken our connections. Remember, this is the guy who kept the prince waiting to meet a prior engagement. I still don't think it is either wise, or in character, to drop everything for some unknow kindred. I still stick with leaving a message and offer to meet later shows consideration without compromising us.

Frankly, if Anthony has to worry about the costs of renovations then getting on the board of a couple of banks should be a nice way to up the reserves. Being able to throw money at a problem can often be swiss-army solution, even among the kindred.

P.S. we don't know he will come only once more, only that he will return again (although he might be pissed at being forced to wait).

This, and you guys should stop to think as plebs, we are a baron for fuck' sake, why we should oblige to the desiderata of the first hobo vampire passing by?

 

[ironyuri]

I understand that one should "always take the sidequests", but that feels a bet meta-gamey in this narrative. If we don't go to the ball then not only do we not strengthen the kine ties that, but we cause our host to lose face (he promised the board they'd finally meet the us), and this will likely weaken our connections. Remember, this is the guy who kept the prince waiting to meet a prior engagement. I still don't think it is either wise, or in character, to drop everything for some unknow kindred. I still stick with leaving a message and offer to meet later shows consideration without compromising us.

Frankly, if Anthony has to worry about the costs of renovations then getting on the board of a couple of banks should be a nice way to up the reserves. Being able to throw money at a problem can often be swiss-army solution, even among the kindred.

P.S. we don't know he will come only once more, only that he will return again (although he might be pissed at being forced to wait).

This, and you guys should stop to think as plebs, we are a baron for fuck' sake, why we should oblige to the desiderata of the first hobo vampire passing by?

If the hobo vampire is Vogler, who "has someone's ear", according to Costello, then we could be losing a new ally that would perhaps be able to get us into a surer position in kindred society. If we piss him off, then whoever's ear he has might just hear some unpleasant things.

 

[Kz3r0]

If the hobo vampire is Vogler, who "has someone's ear", according to Costello, then we could be losing a new ally that would perhaps be able to get us into a surer position in kindred society. If we piss him off, then whoever's ear he has might just hear some unpleasant things.

What makes you think is Vogler?

 

[ironyuri]

If the hobo vampire is Vogler, who "has someone's ear", according to Costello, then we could be losing a new ally that would perhaps be able to get us into a surer position in kindred society. If we piss him off, then whoever's ear he has might just hear some unpleasant things.

What makes you think is Vogler?

See my post above where I have quotations from prologue and last update. God damnit nobody reads anything.

 

[laclongquan]

I understand that one should "always take the sidequests", but that feels a bet meta-gamey in this narrative. If we don't go to the ball then not only do we not strengthen the kine ties that, but we cause our host to lose face (he promised the board they'd finally meet the us), and this will likely weaken our connections. Remember, this is the guy who kept the prince waiting to meet a prior engagement. I still don't think it is either wise, or in character, to drop everything for some unknow kindred. I still stick with leaving a message and offer to meet later shows consideration without compromising us.

Frankly, if Anthony has to worry about the costs of renovations then getting on the board of a couple of banks should be a nice way to up the reserves. Being able to throw money at a problem can often be swiss-army solution, even among the kindred.

P.S. we don't know he will come only once more, only that he will return again (although he might be pissed at being forced to wait).

This, and you guys should stop to think as plebs, we are a baron for fuck' sake, why we should oblige to the desiderata of the first hobo vampire passing by?

Chica, it's not to meet that hobo we go to Whitehall. sure, sure, going there mean we are on time for the meeting. But going there has many benefits:

+ Anthony can check on existing Mandrake leads from that central position, if Mandrake has anything to do with Kine politicians.
+ As the scruffy Kindred want to meet the next night there, we can meet him and therefore no need to call Antonina to check on him. It's implied Antonina work for us at our Whitehall office but stay at our old resident house, not Wittanhurst.
+ Reinforce our core power base, which is Whitehall politicians. Visit it semi-regularly IS a good idea.
+ As long as we hold Whitehall securely in our grasp, we have a refuge there. No Kindred dare attack there straight on for fear of breaking the Masquerade, other than Sabbat. And dont forget, funding for the ghoul hitsquad come from Kine government.
Mind you, it's nice if he's Vogler or somebody's ear. My gut say he's an emissary of the South. But either way he just be gravy.

 

[Kz3r0]

See my post above where I have quotations from prologue and last update. God damnit nobody reads anything.

That's just an assumption you made, and it's not that we can't give dispositions to Antonia on how properly receive him and asking politely what he wants while we are busy defending kindreds' interests.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Kz3ro makes a good point there. Perhaps we should have someone meet with this Gangrel fellow and find out what their identity / purpose is before we actually meet with them. Would any of our contacts be suitable for this? 'cause we can't exactly send Cripps for this one.

Vote status: on the brink of flip-flopping.

 

[Excidium]

Forgot to (well, itentionally delayed) post my votes.

It's A) for the first option (+Creepies watching out for unpleasentness) and C) for the second one.

Also (P) Antonia to do her job and see what exactly is the business this scruffy guy wants with Tony.