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Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
God, this is stupid.

I prefer staying under the radar and finding shit out as a servant, instead of being a moron who tries to sell the worst condom in the multiverse then comes back to have some sex. "Hey, Merchant Guy, You gonna use your sheath when you do it with me?" Is that clear enough for you or are you going to keep arguing with Invisible Straw Man?

Random Word's Yao stuff is the first intelligent case for C, yes. That might work better, though I'll think about whether we'd just be suspected as an imposter. Anyone can stick Yao's name on it.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Random Word's Yao stuff is the first intelligent case for C, yes. That might work better, though I'll think about whether we'd just be suspected as an imposter. Anyone can stick Yao's name on it.

Yeah, this is an important point; we can't actually prove that we were Yao's apprentice. People at the tournament suspected we were Zhang's disciple based on both the rumors and the demonstration of our brutal style in combat against Guo Fu, but making a case here is far more difficult.

I just think that it's far easier to come in as a client, get an audience with the madam and lay out that we're friends of the Grand Taoist and the Abbot. This is information that not any idiot would be privy to, so it could establish trust between us. The only problem is, I don't know if the madam here is part of the conspiracy or not. I don't think that she is, but I'd rather either pose as a servant or blend in as a client in the meantime to gain more information on things here. It just seems a far better bet than hawking some stupid product... and hoping for what exactly?

Oh, and the money arguments are silly, IMO. If getting an identity on the WiB and getting more information on who they are means going broke, then that is fine by me. Out of all the things we need - money, information, techniques - money is by far the easiest of the three to obtain, so we can't be stingy with money when we know that it can be traded for information. As Qi Liuwu told us, don't worry about the cash, because "money is where you find it". If we burn up a lot of our winnings, we can make do regardless.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Tigranes said:
Is that clear enough for you or are you going to keep arguing with Invisible Straw Man?
Not clear enough, no.
We are not flashing our Secret Police badge, which we don't even have. How is being a moron salesman (which is the worst case scenario) any less 'under the radar' than any other regular customer, I have no idea. Except that it precludes your favorite B option in case of its failure, which is why you are so eager to argue against it.

If you want to mop the floors for them and call it infiltration, be my guest.
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
We should try C.

If that fails we could always go with A,they won't refuse a client. Although B has it's advantages as we could learn more as a servant.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
If that fails we could always go with A,they won't refuse a client.
I don't think we would be able to fall back on one of the remaining options (something unpredictable always happens in these LPs), and I don't care. One way or the other, we will know what is happening around here. I'm going with C for a pure amusement factor.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
If that fails we could always go with A,they won't refuse a client. Although B has it's advantages as we could learn more as a servant.

Look, if we come off as an annoying peddler who is trying to con them, they might not let us back in. I don't think that'll be the case, but pick a choice with success in mind, not failure. We have a shitload of cash! Why is everyone so averse to spending it? This is mind-boggling.
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
Well entering as a client doesn't guarantee we come off with information. The women working at such an exquisite place are known for their privacy and DISCRETION, when it comes to other clients and the affairs of the so called Hall, and I doubt our 7 CHA and our lovemaking skills can make them talk. And it's not just a quarter of our money we're giving, it might be way more after we enter, maybe all of it, maybe we even get in debt.

So we risk our money and have a chance to gain nothing. As a merchant the risk is reduced to a slightly bad reputation (more like annoying than actually bad). As a servant we might eavesdrop to a couple of conversations and get a pass behind the scenes. As a thief the risk is maximum but the rewards likewise.

All choices have their good and bad points. I stick with C because I consider it the most sensible option(low risk/moderate reward) versus A(moderate risk/low reward), B(moderate risk/moderate reward), and D(high risk/high reward).

Then again our bad luck might hit us, someone actually dies using our condoms and we get thrown in prison. That would be fun.
 
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Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
2,951
Well, I could certainly see all choices working, except possibly D because sneaking in doesn't make much sense if we are looking for information. In A we sacrifice our cash for information. B could work as well - we sacrifice some of our time instead to get what we need. C too - if there is any market for this, it's here. And they are already using something similar, Yao has only improved on it (or so he says).

I think I'm going with B > A for now, provided that servant means hired muscle and not "servant". We are strong, excellent fighter, reasonably bright and with considerable medical skills - I see no reason we shouldn’t be able to get a job here. My reason for B is that it gives us the most time in there to find what we are looking for.

edit: update my vote. I too somewhat prefer Jing the high roller over Jing the shady merchant.
 
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Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I dont care that we can try A if C fails. There has been hardly any actual arguments about C working, and I prefer B. Simple as that.

Its clear people are just voting for C without thinking it through at all because we just finished an arc and it feels like a low risk choice. I have faith treave will write lulzy shit happening to 1 luck jing in a whores den without us screwing ourselves over by voting like prosper.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Tigranes said:
Its clear people are just voting for C without thinking it through at all because we just finished an arc and it feels like a low risk choice.
It is clear that people argue against C without thinking because they just like their choices more.

YPS is exactly the sort of thing the establishment might be interested in, so it grants you an audience with the Madam. There you can decide if you tell her the truth or not.

If you don't, you can offer her to speak with the girls yourself to find out if they would be interested. You can find out about who works there that way, and also learn the layout of the place, should you need to sneak in later.

This is not a con, we aren't selling something that isn't doing its job. We are in no risk of being thrown out without a way back. This is your 'under the radar' option.

If you like your choice more - fine by me, but don't go out of your way to discredit those of others, not without an actual argument.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Oh, for fuck's sake. Demon Master Zhang Jue taught us what to do in situations like these: kill shit until you get answers. Then kill the survivors anyway.
Have we learned nothing?
:rpgcodex:
All jokes aside: the argument for C is just dumb, "let's sacrifice success and a great chance at establishing a valuable contact in the underworld for simple lulz." Look, this place screens the customers with a hefty buy-in, like bouncers and security in high-class bars, only the girls here are the security. Moreover, the Madame of such a spot is definitely a busy woman and won't have time for a two-bit peddler selling a stanky condom, when a place like this definitely has their own in stock (treave, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chinese were making fancy silken condoms by this period, right?). And they definitely can afford to tell us to fuck off, they're swimming in cash, and other things, to be choosy about their clientèle.

Jing was a good bullshitter back in the day, and I doubt he would be able to pull it off then, but after spending eighteen months on an island punching tigers and learning from a sexless, batshit recluse, I think his barely existant conning skills are gone by this point. Honestly, this isn't the savvy rabbit rogue.

That being said, A doesn't appeal to me as much as D does, because we're badass at stealth and can overhear much more important information behind the public areas and make it easier to see the Madame, since I'm sure she's a rather busy person to socialize with every Joe Schmo. We'll probably have to swing our street cred around to get an audience. Not mention the practice we'll get out of this, but I'll go with A. It's about time Jing got some, this blushing maid behavior is unbecoming of him. If Wang and Zhengchong could use their neiggong techniques to destroy some cervixes, I'd love to see how Yuhua's girls handle a fragment of the great Hundun, the faceless Chaos, creator of all that is.
:incline:
 
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Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Well, I could certainly see all choices working, except possibly D because sneaking in doesn't make much sense if we are looking for information. In A we sacrifice our cash for information. B could work as well - we sacrifice some of our time instead to get what we need. C too - if there is any market for this, it's here. And they are already using something similar, Yao has only improved on it (or so he says).

I think I'm going with B for now, provided that servant means hired muscle and not "servant". We are strong, excellent fighter, reasonably bright and with considerable medical skills - I see no reason we shouldn’t be able to get a job here. My reason for B is that it gives us the most time in there to find what we are looking for.

This is a very good point in favour of C. If there's one place to use Yao's patented sheath, it's this place. And, as Random Word said, we have reason to believe that the madam of the brothel and Yao both know each other, so this could very well be a decent option. The product has problems in that it probably won't work as is, but that doesn't mean that there isn't potential here. However, trying to sell a product that is potentially useful could be setting ourselves up for trouble; you can't really knock on someone's door as a complete stranger and sell them a product that isn't useful to them immediately.

Maybe it'll be more tolerable with some perfumes to mask the scent, but this really sounds like a shaky business proposal. Look at this way - we're going to attempt to enter an establishment with a huge cover charge for free (designed that way to keep losers out) in order to sell a product that has huge, obvious flaws that aren't easy to hide.

The time investment of B does make me a bit wary of it. If it's a choice between going broke and getting a stronger lead on the WiB's now versus investing a few months of our time here investigating, I am fine with burning all of our winnings here as a shortcut to more information. Of course, I'm simplifying here, but I'm just trying to point out that information is more precious than money is.

Moreover, the Madame of such a spot is definitely a busy woman and won't have time for a two-bit peddler selling a stanky condom, when a place like this definitely has their own in stock (treave, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chinese were making fancy silken condoms by this period, right?). And they definitely can afford to tell us to fuck off, they're swimming in cash, and other things, to be choosy about their clientèle.

Jing was a good bullshitter back in the day, and I doubt he would be able to pull it off then, but after spending eighteen months on an island punching tigers and learning from a sexless, batshit recluse, I think his barely existant conning skills are gone by this point. Honestly, this isn't the savvy rabbit rogue.

They have their own condoms:

“This is my latest medical creation, based off the preventive caps they hand out in the brothels. Of course, it is far superior to those little toys. I call it Yao’s Protective Sheath. The special ointment makes the lamb’s intestine a lot more reliable for vigorous use without compromising on sensitivity. It also wards off illnesses a lot more effectively. I think it will be a good addition to the herbal wares we have.”

Yao's condom is actually much, much better than what the brothel here has. If you don't mind the smell, of course.

Also, I'd like to point out that Jing's diplomacy skills haven't really atrophied or decreased. He's still as charming as ever if you look at the character sheet. It just seems that a valid point against C is that this condom is a very hard sell to a place that like this. Maybe they have a perfume that would eliminate or mask the scent, so it could work out, but unless that happens, our personal charm isn't going to make this smelly cock-sheath into a more palatable business venture.

And let's not oversell Jing's stealth skills. Yeah, with the Kuanglang Step boosting his ability he's decent, but without it, he isn't much of a sneak. If you want to sneak in a night later, A does provide the best method of casing the place. Working as a servant here could allow us to do that as well, though of course we'd need to invest more time into the matter.

The biggest drawback with A is the money we'd need to lay down. It costs us a quarter of our money just to get in, so imagine how much money it's going to take to get into one of the VIP rooms where we might find clues as to who some of the previous courtesans here might have been. It could be more money than we even possess in the first place.
 
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ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,370
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Putting my vote as B>D.

As I mentioned before, I suspect we'd be better off analysing repeat customers and such, and that is better and more sustainably done as a servant, than as a customer or merchant.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
As I mentioned before, I suspect we'd be better off analysing repeat customers and such, and that is better and more sustainably done as a servant, than as a customer or merchant.

What makes you say that? The two leads that we have are the Woman-in-Black, who struck us with the Yuhua Duqing Palm, and another woman pretending to be Zhang's apprentice, who struck us with a technique similar to the Yuhua Duqing Palm. This points to a rogue courtesan, so why are we interested in the customers here? No matter what we're doing, we're probably going to pay more attention to the prostitutes than we are to the johns.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
A>C
We serve enough masters. I don't want to add another!

What does this even mean? Serving who?

We aren't part of any sect, so we don't have to listen to the Abbot, Grand Taoist, Abbess or Qi - we don't owe them any allegiance, they are just great contacts for us to have. The only people who we serve is Zhang - who is so hands-off about our task that he doesn't seem to care how we go about accomplishing things so long as they are accomplished - and Shun, who we haven't seen in years.

I'd say that we're more free than anybody we know.
 

Grimgravy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
3,469
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
A>C
We serve enough masters. I don't want to add another!

What does this even mean? Serving who?

We aren't part of any sect, so we don't have to listen to the Abbot, Grand Taoist, Abbess or Qi - we don't owe them any allegiance, they are just great contacts for us to have. The only people who we serve is Zhang - who is so hands-off about our task that he doesn't seem to care how we go about accomplishing things so long as they are accomplished - and Shun, who we haven't seen in years.

I'd say that we're more free than anybody we know.
That's all true. We do have a lot of freedom for a servant. I rather like that and don't want to give any of that up to serve in a brothel.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Thinking more, with A we would need to try and force a conclusion quickly, since our money will barely last a week, if even a couple of days. We'd be banking on finding something within those few encounters to either learn something about WiB or find some other reason to stick around. With B, we're guaranteed a lot more time to learn, but I assume this kind of elite establishment doesn't just hire off the street, no questions asked. I'm sure we'd be subject to some sort of scrutiny.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Just a question: how are we going to prove we're Yao's apprentice selling Yao's recipe to the face controll?
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
Any number of small things that we've learned from actually being his apprentice for months would probably work. Our knowledge of herbalism and access to some of his recipes, lucky laxatives and so on would seem to point towards us being legitimate.
 

kazgar

Arcane
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
2,164
Location
Upside Down
treave As I assume fast travel/teleporters don't exist yet, how long has it been since we left the island on our one year mission from Zhang, or did the one year start after the tournament? (and if it did start from the end of the tournament, how long did we spend with the scholars and travelling to where we are now)
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
To the Madame, yes, she probably knows Yao along with the rest of the Frathouse, probably Miecao too :lol: , but I'm thinking about the face control. To them, we're a guy in his twenties selling a reeking intestine in a stanky marinade.
 

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