[LP CYOA] 傳

[Kashmir Slippers]

Maybe I don't understand how this Wuxia setting works, but it would seem like fighting with a weapon>fighting without a weapon.

 

[Baltika9]

Maybe I don't understand how this Wuxia setting works, but it would seem like fighting with a weapon>fighting without a weapon.

This is how fists work in Wuxia. They are good against everything:

 

[treave]

Maybe I don't understand how this Wuxia setting works, but it would seem like fighting with a weapon>fighting without a weapon.

You got it right. It's just that in the setting, your fists are also weapons.

 

[Esquilax]

Maybe I don't understand how this Wuxia setting works, but it would seem like fighting with a weapon>fighting without a weapon.

Another indicator of what others have mentioned is the list of the Five Great Pugilists; Master Zhang is an unarmed combat specialist who has probably killed off a shitload of armed warriors over in Japan and won a war pretty much single-handed. As far as I know, the Grand Taoist's signature technique seems to be the Taiji Fist, which implies that his best asset is unarmed fighting too. If it's good enough for the most feared and revered men of the jianghu, it's good enough for us.

 

[Kipeci]

And we didn't really pass up a lot of stealthy-tricky approaches, so I don't see your point there.

I don't know about that, we do have a bit of a tendency to be kinda open about these things. We don't infiltrate the BDS, we 'pay our respects' to their elders. We don't sneak Yu out of Yuhua Hall, we walk in as a condom merchant and buy his freedom, and so on. Jing does take the sneaky approach sometimes, but when there's an option to burst in with a huge trollface on that generally tends to be what happens.

I think the "too many eggs in one basket" is more accurate for the sword bonus than the SoH bonus.

Most people pushing the sleight-of-hand option are talking about how BJ would never expect such a thing due to his outwardly prim appearance and so on. If he come at loggerheads with any agents of the Wudu at some points in his career (again, just because he's orthodox doesn't mean he's never fought unorthodox scum like us before), he may have experience with it, and if we fight anyone beforehand knowledge of our use of the silk will likely spread because Jing isn't shy about casually using these sorts of techniques in the midst of battles against mooks. This isn't bad, since tying up Bai Juitian would probably need some practice from tying up others since he's very strong and special, but if we don't face off right after we break out of the cave then he's not going to be surprised by anything aside from maybe how low we can sink to in our unorthodoxy.

If you are hedging all of your bets on beating BJ at his own game with a 6 Sword skill, then that's just not going to happen. The dude/dudette spent years upon years practicing and mastering swords, one point won't make much of a difference.

You mean just like the recently deceased darling of another sword school, a fellow student of Huashan? BJ may be more technically skilled, but we do have the advantage in raw strength in an actual battle, and maybe even with agility if we're using all of our buffs in that. We might be able to match him even if we take the time to become more technically proficient here so that he doesn't just vastly outclass us right in that regard. Furthermore, one point can make all the difference; there's a great gulf separating later skill levels from earlier ones, as you might notice from how at skill level 5 in sword combat we're just more skilled than the average pugilist while with unarmed combat level 6 we're mopping up mobs and mobs of lesser peons.

Another indicator of what others have mentioned is the list of the Five Great Pugilists

That's hardly fair when the Sword Saint refuses to participate in the ranking matches for that stuff, he could be the strongest for all we know.

 

[treave]

As far as I know, the Grand Taoist's signature technique seems to be the Taiji Fist, which implies that his best asset is unarmed fighting too. If it's good enough for the most feared and revered men of the jianghu, it's good enough for us.

Even so, he'd still use the Taiji Sword technique against a swordsman of similar or higher caliber, like, say, the Sword Saint. And he'd use Fist against Zhang because the counter attacking sword isn't as suitable for handling unarmed attackers getting all up in your face. It all boils down to what a technique can do, and that cannot be determined from just the type of weapon it employs.

 

[Kipeci]

By the way, treave did Qilin tell us about her mom? She mentioned something about not being like her mom in the update, but I don't recall her ever describing her mom.

As a side note, I reviewed that old min/max list I made for all the combinations at the start of the LP, and I've come to the conclusion that Yang Xue is the Dog Adjutant. That one had the tie for the best possible spear skill with the Doc Doctor as well as the worst possible luck stat, it all fits!

 

[Baltika9]

I think the "too many eggs in one basket" is more accurate for the sword bonus than the SoH bonus.

Most people pushing the sleight-of-hand option are talking about how BJ would never expect such a thing due to his outwardly prim appearance and so on. If he come at loggerheads with any agents of the Wudu at some points in his career (again, just because he's orthodox doesn't mean he's never fought unorthodox scum like us before), he may have experience with it, and if we fight anyone beforehand knowledge of our use of the silk will likely spread because Jing isn't shy about casually using these sorts of techniques in the midst of battles against mooks. This isn't bad, since tying up Bai Juitian would probably need some practice from tying up others since he's very strong and special, but if we don't face off right after we break out of the cave then he's not going to be surprised by anything aside from maybe how low we can sink to in our unorthodoxy.

Except the whole episode in Youxia City displayed exactly how naive and cloistered BJ is. The dude has no street smarts at all, he just expects the worst of every unorthodox fighter, but that won't really help him.

You mean just like the recently deceased darling of another sword school, a fellow student of Huashan?

Except that guy was kinda shit and more bark than bite.

 

[MystiKnight]

After all the talks of death flags and the constant treave-trolling, I'm kinda scared that picking 3A is going to end absolutely horribly. I'm going to abstain from voting on this one, for now.

 

[Nevill]

Jing does take the sneaky approach sometimes, but when there's an option to burst in with a huge trollface on that generally tends to be what happens.

Well, SoH will get a trolling approach all the more viable.

We might be able to match him even if we take the time to become more technically proficient here so that he doesn't just vastly outclass us right in that regard. Furthermore, one point can make all the difference; there's a great gulf separating later skill levels from earlier ones, as you might notice from how at skill level 5 in sword combat we're just more skilled than the average pugilist while with unarmed combat level 6 we're mopping up mobs and mobs of lesser peons.

Except the alternative timeline update stated that he is constantly improving, too. There is no winning that race fairly in such a short amount of time. We need a trick to pull it off. It should not come at the expense of our primary arsenal, but the sword techniques are not it. We only have two.

 

[Kipeci]

Except the whole episode in Youxia City displayed exactly how naive and cloistered BJ is. The dude has no street smarts at all, he just expects the worst of every unorthodox fighter, but that won't really help him.

It showed nothing of him obliterating them in battle, though treave confirmed that we would have won against those shifty characters (provided that those shifty characters weren't the entire city) if we'd actually taken him into combat. Who knows what tricks people have tried to pull on him in a fight? Certainly, he would be much more likely to expect trickery from a miscreant he was pounding than from the official gatekeeper of a city. treave Is it confirmed that BJ has fought a number of dodgy characters, do we know anything about how those fights went? Enough fangirls of him are around that Jing must grudgingly recall a few of his exploits.

Except that guy was kinda shit and more bark than bite.

Certainly, but Jing was also a vastly inferior fighter on all fronts compared to where Jing is at present. The point I'm making is that a better fighter can still be beaten from time to time if we make the right options, and I don't think that taking swords or SoH will really keep us from being able to overcome him. I do think that it'd be wasteful to ditch the sword upgrade since we'd have to spend the next forever grinding it to a point where it becomes acceptable anyway while it obviously takes barely any time to practice our SoH if the relevant stat comparisons are four levels at once to one. Why don't we take the sword upgrade now and while we grind naturally for forever on the path to the next sword boost we take the next SoH upgrade to come along over some drinking thing or some other skill that'll be presented as another option?

 

[Baltika9]

Jing does take the sneaky approach sometimes, but when there's an option to burst in with a huge trollface on that generally tends to be what happens.

Well, SoH will get a trolling approach all the more viable.

We might be able to match him even if we take the time to become more technically proficient here so that he doesn't just vastly outclass us right in that regard. Furthermore, one point can make all the difference; there's a great gulf separating later skill levels from earlier ones, as you might notice from how at skill level 5 in sword combat we're just more skilled than the average pugilist while with unarmed combat level 6 we're mopping up mobs and mobs of lesser peons.

Except the alternative timeline update stated that he is constantly improving, too. There is no winning that race fairly in such a short amount of time. We need a trick to pull it off. It should not come at the expense of our primary arsenal, but the sword techniques are not it. We only have two.

No, bro, you've got it all wrong. Xu Jing is an honorable swordsman of greatness that studied under the most reputable Masters in the nation and would never resort to such low tricks! We must defeat BJ in an honorable sword duel and wow everyone with our display of skills.

 

[Kipeci]

Well, SoH will get a trolling approach all the more viable.

Jing's trolling gave me a chuckle when I was reading the tournament, but I have to say that there are only a couple of updates from the tournament era that I return to read time and time again, and they're mostly the Guo Fu ones. No tricks, no stripping, just badassery all around. It's the same feeling I get when I go back over the 100 man match. No matter how much I argued against the latter before it happened, I think it just fits and I get much more lasting satisfaction from those sorts of encounters than I do from reading about Jing's troll-fu. If I'm the odd one out, so be it, I just don't think that we should divert into a pure trolling moveset, at least not when we can upgrade Jing's more 'real-deal', serious stats first.

Except the alternative timeline update stated that he is constantly improving, too. There is no winning that race fairly in such a short amount of time. We need a trick to pull it off. It should not come at the expense of our primary arsenal, but the sword techniques are not it. We only have two.

He's constantly improving, but it takes much more effort to move a skill to the next level the higher up it is, which is why small delays now can put us back by a lot in the future. We can use a trick to pull it off, but Jing has thought of a good many of tricks without spider silk and I'd rather that he not rely on it as a trump card so that his fertile mind is free to pursue other options. He'll have more time to think up other options if he can last longer against BJ's swordplay, hence I think we need better swordplay.

No, bro, you've got it all wrong. Xu Jing is an honorable swordsman of greatness that studied under the most reputable Masters in the nation and would never resort to such low tricks! We must defeat BJ in an honorable sword duel and wow everyone with our display of skills.

Hilarious. You know, in a way it is true that he's studied under the Orthodox masters of the nation-- he's directly learned from the leader of the Beggar Sect, and most of Zhang Jue's moves are apparently copies to some degree or another of various members of the frathouse. I know that for now Jing will probably have to rely on some sort of trick he devises to win against BJ-- not necessarily the silk-- but I would like to one day beat him at his own game in the straightest possible of matches. It would just provide so much more satisfaction then a win that he could bitch about the circumstances of, one in which he just knows that he's been fully defeated without just some clever scheme and has to recognize that he's an inferior pugilist.

 

[Nevill]

No, bro, you've got it all wrong. Xu Jing is an honorable swordsman of greatness that studied under the most reputable Masters in the nation and would never resort to such low tricks! We must defeat BJ in an honorable sword duel and wow everyone with our display of skills.

Of course. He would never cheat. It won him the tournaments before.

The point I'm making is that a better fighter can still be beaten from time to time if we make the right options

The point I am making is that we should not take chances on this one. Time to time is not good enough. We need to win this one time. Then we can improve on legitimate skills because we wouldn't be on timer anymore.

I would like to one day beat him at his own game in the straightest possible of matches.

So do I. That's why I am taking steps to ensure this day will come.

 

[Baltika9]

If we outwitted him, outsmarted him and out-Vreed'ed him, that makes us the better fighter, no? If he's the dude with his face caved in, his arm ripped off and panties in twist, just because we outsmarted him, well, who is the better fighter?

Tying up your opponent is a legitimate form of martial arts, though not as well looked upon as the more orthodox styles. It's on par with flying daggers and the like in terms of reputation. Also, what's important is how you use it. In a sneak attack in a dark forest? Not so good for rep. In the open, where they can see it coming? Their own fault for not being able to dodge/block/cut it.

 

[RealDDc]

I do think that it'd be wasteful to ditch the sword upgrade since we'd have to spend the next forever grinding it to a point where it becomes acceptable anyway while it obviously takes barely any time to practice our SoH if the relevant stat comparisons are four levels at once to one. Why don't we take the sword upgrade now and while we grind naturally for forever on the path to the next sword boost we take the next SoH upgrade to come along over some drinking thing or some other skill that'll be presented as another option?

Who knows how long it is going to take until we could get another stat boost for SoH? Sure the same goes for swordplay. But with SoH at 1, we probably wouldn't get any chance to make use of that skill to improve it other than trough stat boosting training. If we take SoH now both skills sword and SoH have the chance to improve while providing good use. That can't be a bad thing.

And till that point of the stat boost for drinking, possibly swordplay and SoH have improved and we finally can start to improve drinking.

 

[treave]

Re: Qilin's mother, she left the dad for another man. You'll meet her eventually.

Re: Bai Jiutian, he's good enough not to fall for petty tricks, but if you get creative it may work. As for the gatekeeper, there's a difference between being street savvy and cunning in battle.

 

[Kipeci]

The point I am making is that we should not take chances on this one. Time to time is not good enough. We need to win this one time. Then we can improve on legitimate skills because we wouldn't be on timer anymore.

I didn't notice that option II came with a button that said take this option to definitely win against BJ? It's all speculation as to which choices could theoretically allow us to win. I still maintain that it's possible for all. In fact, let's ask treave. treave , are our chances of beating Bai Juitian within the timeframe Zhang gave us determined based solely on the options of which skills we pick here? I'm not asking about any of the other options, for all I know Yang Xue might pop out and eat us with option 2A.

Anyway, provided that he is able to survive the challenge timeframe, Jing will obviously have that much more ground to catch up on to bring his sword skill up to par if he's to close the gap with BJ who, as you said, also trains. I would think that raising his sword skill and then facing a bunch of orthodox fighters vaguely on his level would be a much better way to grind that skill up rather than beating them before getting the level up. Even excluding Bai Juitian, we can't disregard folks like those Taishan sword weilders; we're going to have to use some degree of sword skils against the likes of them, and I doubt that our skill in silk would be able to deal with many fighters at once.

If we outwitted him, outsmarted him and out-Vreed'ed him, that makes us the better fighter, no? If he's the dude with his face caved in, his arm ripped off and panties in twist, just because we outsmarted him, well, who is the better fighter?

Not sure what Vreed'ed means? Anyway, perhaps it's just me but I don't think that tying him up and mutilating him counts as being 'the better fighter'. Would you say that the Emperor was strong than Yang Xue because he was able to bind him and inflict horrible tortures on him? It just doesn't give me that fuzzy feeling.

Who knows how long it is going to take until we could get another stat boost for SoH? Sure the same goes for swordplay. But with SoH at 1, we probably wouldn't get any chance to make use of that skill to improve it other than trough stat boosting training. If we take SoH now both skills sword and SoH have the chance to improve while providing good use. That can't be a bad thing.

We get possible stat boosts for various minor things fairly frequently, particularly if they're little things that we've shown some interest in before. Did you see the huge number of times we were offered stealth upgrades just because of the Mad Wolf Step that we had? Major advances in our main pugilistic powers are rather rare despite flinging ourselves into shit like 100 man matches, we need to take those as we come. Since Sleight-of-Hand kinda helps with spider web techniques, Jing will probably find some opportunity to practice with it a little in the next massive gap he'll have while training for better pugilistic moves. The chance to advance with his sword wielding is rather rarer, since he already has some skill in it and he only tends to use it against armed foes around his level, as opposed to unarmed which is used against armed forces of crappy quality and unarmed foes around his level.

 

[kazgar]

Best way to beat BJ is to take the amazing and unbeatable spear technique no ones seen or used in 30-odd years. Can't defend against what you don't know!

(worth one last shot)

 

[Kipeci]

How are B voters planning on getting to his spear, anyway? That rock is kinda enormous, I think we could move it if we'd gone for drunken tiger-wrestling and also activated the neigong but I just don't think we'll be able to make it budge with Jing's current strength. Maybe if we'd offered an arm to Yang Xue he'd be inclined to move it so that we could use it as his spear against the jianghu, but that opportunity's gone.

 

[Nevill]

I didn't notice that option II came with a button that said take this option to definitely win against BJ?

No, but I'd take it over beating her at her own game. I didn't play by her rules the last time (thankfully, because then we would surely be defeated, and there were lots of conditions attached to the match), I surely do not want to do that now.

Anyway, provided that he is able to survive the challenge timeframe, Jing will obviously have that much more ground to catch up on to bring his sword skill up to par if he's to close the gap with BJ who, as you said, also trains.

That is obvious. However, I do not see the need to get it up to par with hers. Would Zhang use a sword against her? Why would we even want to best BJ at swordplay?

We have our own skillset we are proficient in. It would be best to make use of that instead of playing catch-up.

 

[Baltika9]

Best way to beat BJ is to take the amazing and unbeatable spear technique no ones seen or used in 30-odd years. Can't defend against what you don't know!

(worth one last shot)

Goddammit. I want it. I want it so bad.

How are B voters planning on getting to his spear, anyway? That rock is kinda enormous, I think we could move it if we'd gone for drunken tiger-wrestling and also activated the neigong but I just don't think we'll be able to make it budge with Jing's current strength. Maybe if we'd offered an arm to Yang Xue he'd be inclined to move it so that we could use it as his spear against the jianghu, but that opportunity's gone.

Easy. We wait for our child to be born and then offer it to Yang Xue in exchange for the spear. All in all, an even exchange.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Best way to beat BJ is to take the amazing and unbeatable spear technique no ones seen or used in 30-odd years. Can't defend against what you don't know!
(worth one last shot)

Goddammit. I want it. I want it so bad.

It's so unbeatable that the inventor was captured, tortured, driven insane by being forced to eat his wife or whatever, and imprisoned for 30 years. Honestly, every freak'n gimmick.

How are B voters planning on getting to his spear, anyway? That rock is kinda enormous, I think we could move it if we'd gone for drunken tiger-wrestling and also activated the neigong but I just don't think we'll be able to make it budge with Jing's current strength. Maybe if we'd offered an arm to Yang Xue he'd be inclined to move it so that we could use it as his spear against the jianghu, but that opportunity's gone.

Easy. We wait for our child to be born and then offer it to Yang Xue in exchange for the spear. All in all, an even exchange.

I take it back - you're brilliant! :D

 

[Nevill]

Easy. We wait for our child to be born and then offer it to Yang Xue in exchange for the spear. All in all, an even exchange.

Zhang is disappointed that you forgot your promise of sacrificing your firstborn to him.

You'd better start working on twins if you want that spear. Or triplets, if you want more sweet Wudu techniques. We have to leave something to Tianxie.

 

[Kipeci]

No, but I'd take it over beating her at her own game. I didn't play by her rules the last time (thankfully, because then we would surely be defeated, and there were lots of conditions attached to the match), I surely do not want to do that now.

Treave did say it was a possibility that we could win against BJ at that time, though I think that was said before we shattered Jing's arm in the match against Guo Fu. If the fox leaves were legitimate, who knows?

That is obvious. However, I do not see the need to get it up to par with his. Would Zhang use a sword against him? Why would we even want to best BJ at swordplay?

Zhang has no problem in slipping over to weapons use, even though they are not his best. Didn't he ride into battle against the Japanese with some sort of pole arm or something? I want to best him at swordplay because that's his best thing and it'd make the tears of defeat even sweeter-- additionally, because I think that Jing is the only character with a possibility of being at par or better than BJ in swordsmanship in this LP.

We have our own skillset we are proficient in. It would be best to make use of that instead of playing catch-up.

Or we do both at the same time so that he doesn't gain a vast advantage over us in the swordsmanship since our fight will obviously have to include at least some component of that (we've raised a sword against every enemy we've faced in a duel/tournament fight regardless of whether or not they were better than us at it) while we advance our main technique.