[LP CYOA] 傳

[Absinthe]

By the way, treave, can we see Xuezi's skills?

 

[Nevill]

The girl is venting her frustrations. Better now than at the siege of the Fire Temple.

I'd rather have the girl with us and let her vent the anger on the ortodontists later. You just wasted her super special frustration power up for nothing.

 

[Baltika9]

Oh please, let her stew in it for a night and her mental frustration will turn into something...different. We gon get raped.
Anyway, voting for B. This "interrogation" in A and C reminds me of this old Russian joke:

American SWAT, British Police and the Russian Militsiya (police) decided to settle who is the best policeman in the world. They gathered in a fifteen square kilometer forest and received their task: the forest has one, and only one, rabbit in it. Go find him.
First up are the SWAT: a full squad busts in and comes back three hours later with the rabbit. Applause all around, job well done, etc...
Second, the British Police: best officers and hunting dogs go into the forest and come back one hour later with the rabbit. Everyone is shocked and awed, applause all around, etc...
Last, but not least, the Militsiya. Two guys go into the forest and come back fifteen minutes later with a bear. "Where do I sign?" he asks, "I'm the rabbit!"

We have absolutely zero material on Fu Xia, no reason for him to admit anything even if he is the perp.

 

[Absinthe]

You realize B is guaranteed to not solve the case and even if we convince them, for reasons of expediency they will just force a confession out of Jiang Zheng anyway?

These guys aren't interested in actually solving the case. They're interested in calling it solved so that a successor can be appointed and the unrest dies down.

It's C or we sacrifice Jiang Zheng. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Baltika9]

Not quite, B is specifically attempting to to convince them that the perp is out of the city, B doesn't equal A. Granted, it's not guaranteed success but we are also taking a completely wild stab with C as well, and a stab the results of which we absolutely cannot predict. Honestly, with 7 CHA and 6 Speech, I think that we can pull it off. Browbeating Fu Xia seems just empty to me right now: if he's innocent, then what the hell are we doing? If he's guilty then that means he studied the Jiuyin manual and what do we do then?

 

[Absinthe]

Not quite, B is specifically attempting to to convince them that the perp is out of the city, B doesn't equal A. Granted, it's not guaranteed success

Honestly, with 7 CHA and 6 Speech, I think that we can pull it off.

Okay, here is what you fail to understand, Baltika9. It's not a question of "do we succeed at convincing them there was an outside culprit." Even if we do successfully convince them the assassin escaped, they still need a scapegoat to pin the blame on, so they will just do in Jiang Zheng anyway. For reasons of political expediency. Where the fuck do you think you are? This is Youxia City. Do you think they care about honest to goodness proper justice? They just care about the city running smoothly.

but we are also taking a completely wild stab with C as well,

"Completely wild stab" my fucking ass. How many fucking signs of his potential guilt have we found so far? He has no alibi for what he did when Du Yao was assassinated and no alibi or what happened to Xiaofang. Furthermore, we have confirmation that it was most likely the same person now that we see the same technique used on both people. We also know he has a weapon matching the crime scene. We know he's been two-faced, he delayed us from searching for Xiaofang (“Don’t worry,” says Fu. “He tends to operate on his own… he’s something like a loan from the eunuch department.”) and he's been trying to put us on the trial to Jinkong which still looks like a framejob. He's been unhelpful and suspicious every step of the way and now you're pretending he has all sorts of reasons to be innocent. We also know we have a mole who gave away the manual in the first place, remember?

and a stab the results of which we absolutely cannot predict.

No, we can definitely predict the result. Fu Xia is found guilty. He has no alibi and even without any evidence they would probably declare him guilty anyway. They need a scapegoat, remember? But odds are the interrogation will actually turn up good information.

Browbeating Fu Xia seems just empty to me right now: if he's innocent, then what the hell are we doing? If he's guilty then that means he studied the Jiuyin manual and what do we do then?

Do you really think Fu Xia is a badass super martial artist in disguise? Also, the Hanbing Needles was a Xueguizi technique, not a Jiuyin technique. From what we've heard, he's probably at novice level for the technique. We can just cripple his internal energy during interrogations anyway.

 

[Baltika9]

Yes, I do believe that we can be wrong about Fu Xia's guilt. Just because he's incompetent doesn't automatically make him guilty. If the dude is innocent and we cannot for the life of us produce solid evidence of his guilt, then what? And even if he is found guilty, it still makes the Empire look just as bad as Jiang Zheng's "guilt" and will provoke the Bandit Kingdom.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

C - as in cock-up:

Geez. I totally agree with Nevill that we just wasted Yunzi's blow up. We should have waited and had her stay with us. Then we could have revealed it just as we all entered the temple. It would have been EPIC. *sigh* You're supposed to keep a girl waiting. Give her some build up. But noooo, you jerks had to go and blow our wad earlier than a virgin at a hooker convention and now she's gone again.

Oh, AND you didn't get any info out of Fu in spite of the multipage discussion we all had about how he was obviously up to something.
all around.

 

[Nevill]

Okay, here is what you fail to understand, Baltika9. It's not a question of "do we succeed at convincing them there was an outside culprit." Even if we do successfully convince them the assassin escaped, they still need a scapegoat to pin the blame on, so they will just do in Jiang Zheng anyway. For reasons of political expediency. Where the fuck do you think you are? This is Youxia City. Do you think they care about honest to goodness proper justice? They just care about the city running smoothly.

The lieutenants do. I am not sure about the garrison commander. In the end, he is the one we'll be appealing to.
If he refuses to give an imperial servant in the hands of an executioner, what the hell would they do? He is the one who has 3000 men with him.

B mentions some unknown future ramifications for Youxia City, and I guess that would be the likely result - if it works.

I see the appeal of both B and C, and also the ways they can go horribly wrong for everyone involved. I am not too keen on pursuing Fu Xia without any leads (we counted on producing evidence in the course of an interrogation, which might as well translate to 'we have nothing'), but the guy has been pretty dodgy so far.

I am on the fence about this, really. If there is anything I'd loathe to do, it is throwing accusations around before you have something solid.

And even if he is found guilty, it still makes the Empire look just as bad as Jiang Zheng's "guilt" and will provoke the Bandit Kingdom.

That, too. If we frame another constable instead of Zheng, it will not make us look any better.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Going with B. It will probably not going to end well for this city, but fuck it. At least it might get the chief of the hook. The problem with torture (at least outside of fantasy) is that you can get the victim to confess to anything eventually, as long as you keep turning the thumbscrews. And without any clear way to confirm what they are saying it is completely worthless. I don't want to sacrifice the chief and I don't want to throw Fu Xia on the rack either since we don't actually have anything concrete on him. And weren't the tracks found too small for him (I remember reading something about that but can't find it now)?

 

[Tigranes]

The situation with Yunzi and Xuezi is not particularly troublesome. No big trouble there, for now. What we really need to figure out is if we can salvage an investigation where it looks like we finally found some info, but too little too late. Pretty sure C won't do much to uncover the truth, it would just be throwing Fu Xia under the bus instead of the Chief.

 

[Absinthe]

Nevill, there's also Pang Xiaohu. He might be nice, but he came here with an agenda, won't let us get in the way of that, and I guarantee you he gives zero fucks about justice.

And weren't the tracks found too small for him (I remember reading something about that but can't find it now)?

No, the tracks were smaller than his usual footsteps, but we know qinggong was used to escape and treave confirmed that we could not rule out Fu Xia from the footsteps if we consider qinggong.

 

[treave]

The Codex is filled with honest white knights gentlemen who will never lie to a lady.

 

[Baltika9]

Nevill, there's also Pang Xiaohu. He might be nice, but he came here with an agenda, won't let us get in the way of that, and I guarantee you he gives zero fucks about justice.

Okay, he can get angry. With us around and three thousand soldiers besides, what the fuck will he do?

The Codex is filled with honest white knights gentlemen who will never lie to a lady.

Isn't our white knighting how we got our harem in the first place?

 

[Esquilax]

I'm not quite sold on C, but I do agree that speaking up is bad. We either have Jiang Zheng tough out some torture, or we put the screws on Fu Xia, because these judges aren't really interested in the case:

Unrest in the city was rising at the current uncertain situation, and they had agreed to close this case of Du Yao’s murder so that they could move on to other issues… like how the city would be governed from now on.

First and foremost, these guys want this bullshit to go away so that they can run the city. Jiang Zheng is the most convenient culprit, so of course they're going to blame him. In addition, Du Yao's lieutenant is one of the judges here as well - who's to say he wasn't involved in some way as well? Because of that, I'm not sure if B will work to convince these guys, and if it does work, it doesn't give a sense of closure and the situation will still remain tense from now on.

As a result, I'm tentatively in favour of A. I feel bad that Jiang Zheng has to suffer, but he is a tough man and he can hold out for a little while at least. I'm still not quite sure about interrogating Fu Xia, because if he is guilty, all he has to do is hold out against our interrogation until the judges inevitably convict Jiang Zheng. He knows that time is not on our side here. Also, because I'm sure that this situation is deeper than just Fu Xia, I think we ought to pursue the case further (i.e. figuring out who would have known the Xueguizi technique) and hope that we get to the bottom of it before they force a confession out of Jiang Zheng.

B

 

[Nevill]

As a result, I'm tentatively in favour of A. I feel bad that Jiang Zheng has to suffer, but he is a tough man and he can hold out for a little while at least.

What I understood from the update, though, is that they will be striving for a confession of guilt. This is not going to be "let's torture him for a while and close the case if it doesn't work". It is going to be "let's torture him until he speaks up" - and Chinese knew quite a few ways of making people speak.

Unless you plan on solving the case before they kill him, and there is a chance of that if you make Xiaofang talk, but holding up for a week is a tall order.

That, and the overall defeatist attitude of A is preventing me from going with it. It talks about keeping the peace, not solving the case. I am sure killing Zheng would do just that.

 

[Absinthe]

Wow, Esquilax. That's insane. Jiang Zheng is going to get tortured and pinned for this right now unless we vote C. Seriously man, think in terms of C&C. What makes you think that the A vote will win the case? A has been phrased extremely clearly: If we vote A, they convict Jiang Zheng and he dies. That simple. Besides, the only new evidence we can hope for now is Xiaofang's testimony and that will take us a full week. The chief isn't going to hold out that long.

C is the best option here. Fu Xia has been the most guilty looking person for a huge variety of reasons so stop fucking offering up Jiang Zheng as a culprit when we have a much bigger suspect.

We already know that Xiaofang was attacked with the same technique as Du Yao, and Jiang Zheng was already apprehended when Xiaofang was attacked.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

C

Also, at Yunzi running away screaming. Truly waifu material.

 

[Nevill]

Isn't our white knighting how we got our harem in the first place?

No, that is how we got a dildo in the ass.

We already know that Xiaofang was attacked with the same technique as Du Yao, and Jiang Zheng was already apprehended when Xiaofang was attacked.

That is an argument for Zheng not being the culprit, i.e. B, but what does Fu Xia has to do with it?

I know you are convinced that he is the murderer, but if he is just an associate, how the hell do you make him confess?

I dunno, man. It is a shot in the wild, and a late one at that.

 

[treave]

It's generally considered bad form to kill someone through torture without obtaining a confession, and given the sensitivity of this case they might try not to go that far. Crippling is okay though.

 

[Nevill]

It's generally considered bad form to kill someone through torture without obtaining a confession, and given the sensitivity of this case they might try not to go that far. Crippling is okay though.

What happens when one does not confess? There is no limit to the pressure applied, is there?

And when he does, he is dead.

 

[Absinthe]

That is an argument for Zheng not being the culprit, i.e. B, but what does Fu Xia has to do with it?

Our options are to either turn over Jiang Zheng or Fu Xia. I'm pointing out that we know Jiang Zheng is innocent. We also have much reason to suspect Fu Xia's guilt. So why the hell would you vote to turn in Jiang Zheng?

I know you are convinced that he is the murderer, but if he is just an associate, how the hell do you make him confess?

We don't have complete evidence he's the murderer, but out of everyone, he is definitely the most likely culprit. He has a suspicious lack of alibi for what he was up to during these hours. We know that the person who ambushed Xiaofang was someone who knew Xiaofang (hence the argument). We know that we have an insider who compromised the manual to begin with. We know that Du Yao was ambushed with a weapon matching the standard issue constable sword which Fu Xia carries. Seriously, Fu Xia is the most likely culprit for so many reasons. Right now turning him over is the best chance of solving the case properly right now.

I dunno, man. It is a shot in the wild, and a late one at that.

We either hand over Jiang Zheng or Fu Xia. I say we hand over Fu Xia, who actually looks guilty.

 

[treave]

There is no limit to the torture but there are guidelines. They might feel pressured enough to accidentally overdo the torture and kill him, in which case there would likely be a backlash from the Tang due to the lack of a confession, or they might keep a calmer head and drag it out for as long as the chief is recalcitrant, though that too is not what they hope to happen. The lieutenants are pretty much hoping that Jiang breaks as soon as possible, when he prefers execution to further pain.

 

[Smashing Axe]

I don't like any of these options. I'm leery of doing nothing though, I don't think that would benefit us much in the long-run. I really don't care about the fate of Youxia city here, only us knowing the truth, so I'm fairly open to B as an option. It may suit us to spread a few lies to give us time to uncover the true culprit. What the public thinks is irrelevant, largely. Let them think a convenient lie is the truth. It'll help to put the true perpetrator at ease.

That said, we have no use for this Fu Xia guy. Since it's unlikely the eunuch is the mastermind behind this, we should put the question to this guy. It won't really cost us much, and even if he turns out to be innocent, we get a more expendable patsy than the chief.

C>B

 

[Absinthe]

Smashing Axe, care to vote C then and see if Fu Xia did it? As you say, he's much more expendable than the chief even if he happens to be innocent.

B is not going to buy us time anyway: "Unrest in the city was rising at the current uncertain situation, and they had agreed to close this case of Du Yao’s murder so that they could move on to other issues… like how the city would be governed from now on."