[LP CYOA] 傳

[Esquilax]

You're going at this wrong Esquilax. Every other participant is from one of the orthodox sects. Orthodox fighters fight fair, and they fight to win. They want to prove the supremacy of just their sect. Jing is under no such pressure. He can afford to fight at 80% and not use his best moves, whereas the other fighters will be admonished if they hold back.

Now this is a great argument in favour of A. Zhang himself said he doesn't care about whether we win or not, so we're free to fuck up as much as possible. This allows us a chance to study our opponent without concerning ourselves with "winning". However, the two-way flow still remains.

Also, holding back in this event will be a matter of necessity - our techniques are lethal by design, so if we start using them with bad intentions, our opponent will die.

I might be wrong, I'm not claiming to know it all. But I perceive this choice differently from you, that much is sure.

Also consider that after we our first challenge knowledge of our unique nature will spread to the other 7 sects. With each sect we face, the whole orthodox world gains knowledge of us and we gain NO additional knowledge about the next sect we face. They have channels we're not privy to. We need knowledge of 8 opponents. They need knowledge of 1. Not participating, at best, slows down this uneven flow of information to our enemies. It can't stop it. The uneven flow is more reason to participate than sit on the sidelines. Rumors, and tales of our challenges will fly much faster than we can move on to the next opponent. Let alone the 5th, 6th, etc...

We should take the risk and participate. We can avoid using those techniques we don't want known and get some experience with all of our opponents.

There is one very important distinction here: finding out rumors and tales is very different than getting a sense of someone's flaws and openings in a sparring match with them. Even a genius martial artist with Cao'er's perception can't form a strategy based on hearsay. At the end of the day, to form a strategy against Jing, they must actually see him in action, at the very least. I mean, getting info second-hand helps, but it's not the same thing as seeing what our technique is like in person. Besides, I am not even sure if these sect challenges even allow outsiders who aren't privy to it; treave ?

Nevertheless, this is a valid point. However, the same rule would apply if we vote A. Unless you plan on defeating all of them and winning the competition, you will not get a very clear picture of the style and flaws of all eight opponents. This is an elimination tournament, so the closer you get to the championship, the more familiar people are with you and the more you have to give up. We need to retain our unique advantages for as long as possible. You might get an idea of a few opponents, but you aren't going to get everybody. So really, the two-way flow of information is still favouring the enemy here.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your assessment assumes that Jing is the same fighter against Opponent #7 as he is against Opponent #1. While he will have the same fundamental weaknesses and attributes regardless due to his qi, he will develop a lot of techniques and abilities that will allow him to compensate for his opponent's knowledge of him as time progresses. We need that initial period where our opponents are completely ignorant of what we're capable of so that we can refine and develop new techniques through challenges, just as we did against Rong. This will keep them guessing.

I guess A is going to win by a landslide though, so it doesn't really matter. I'm not convinced that we can get them to underestimate us as Lambchop19 says, they aren't fools. If they know we've survived for a year and a half training under the Southern Maniac, then they aren't going to think we're a punk if we throw the match. Why would not fighting somehow make them think we're more badass? There is some appeal to A, but you don't have to invent reasons for it.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I guess A is going to win by a landslide though, so it doesn't really matter. I'm not convinced that we can get them to underestimate us as Lambchop19 says, they aren't fools.

Again, I'm not opting for losing in the first round, I'm saying we fight aggressively, but without using any of our advanced techniques. Knowing the Maniac's rep, they'll be expecting us to be a tough, bloodthirsty hothead and we should give them exactly that. If a match is easy to win, we should do just that. Brutally, if need be - though without using our special techniques. But in the later matches we should appear to be beaten due to our opponent's superior skill and cunning. We want to look like a hotheaded fool with a lot of potential, but not enough skill that rushed in without thinking. Then we watch the rest of the tournament play out and jeer everyone from the sidelines.

edit: BTW, my plan is formulated based on their desired outcome. Zhang himself said that the whole reason they invited us is that they hope to hand us a humiliating defeat and that is exactly what we should give them because that's what they are expecting (otherwise they would not have invited Jing at all). After they have what they wanted/expected, their guards will be down. Then we strike.

edit2: though knowing the group of drooling larper scum that makes up our fair Codexia, I wonder if any of them will be able to resist trying to win the tournament once we're participating... Sort of like how my whole choice to participate in the last tournament WE LOST hinged on using the laxatives no one wanted to use... Hmm.

Flopping to BB - knowing you guys, you'll all reveal our techniques during the match like the honourblade larper trash you are, rather than being smart and feigning defeat.

 

[treave]

. Besides, I am not even sure if these sect challenges even allow outsiders who aren't privy to it; treave ?

There'll usually need to be neutral arbiters for a proper match. But situations will change from sect to sect when you reach them, so there's no real rules here. Some won't deign to give you an official match, which doesn't matter to Zhang. Some might try to ignore you altogether, they're not obliged to accept your challenge. Others may treat you respectfully. It depends on how you conduct yourself and how your reputation ends up.

In fact, you can even opt to call them all out and take them on at the same time to prove your superiority, finishing your mission in one dramatic (and possibly cunning) climax. That'd minimize information leak.

 

[Esquilax]

Again, I'm not opting for losing in the first round, I'm saying we fight aggressively, but without using any of our advanced techniques. Knowing the Maniac's rep, they'll be expecting us to be a tough, bloodthirsty hothead and we should give them exactly that. If a match is easy to win, we should do just that. Brutally, if need be - though without using our special techniques. But in the later matches we should appear to be beaten due to our opponent's superior skill and cunning. We want to look like a hotheaded fool with a lot of potential, but not enough skill that rushed in without thinking. Then we watch the rest of the tournament play out and jeer everyone from the sidelines.

I understand your general sentiment of fooling our opponents to make them underestimate us, but there seems to be a contradiction here. You want to win matches brutally, if necessary, but you want to do that without using our special techniques. Well, how would you manage that? All of the techniques that Zhang taught us are brutal - we don't know how to fight like a "normal boring martial artist". You either win and move up so that you can hopefully read more into the other guy's style than he does of yours, or you decide to lose and play it safe, but you can't do both. Speaking of techniques, treave, where did this go?

The first technique he imparts to you is the Jinshetuipi (金蛇蛻皮, Golden Snake Shedding Skin). It is an unorthodox qinggong technique that specializes in avoiding an enemy's clutches via erratic movements - he perceived your high agility and deemed it useful for you. You accepted the technique with little hesitation; you had lost your scroll for the Yinglang Step together with the rest of your possessions when the bandits attacked.

I know that we had forgotten the Duncao Legs at the Manor, but I was under the impression that the other technique that Yao taught us was still with us.

edit: BTW, my plan is formulated based on their desired outcome. Zhang himself said that the whole reason they invited us is that they hope to hand us a humiliating defeat and that is exactly what we should give them because that's what they are expecting (otherwise they would not have invited Jing at all). After they have what they wanted/expected, their guards will be down. Then we strike.

This makes sense. However, you have to be aware that inadvertently, you'd be giving up a lot of your own skills and techniques too. You simply can't take part in this competition without giving something away, provided the person watching you is clever and astute enough to see it. And as I've said before, I think that giving away information benefits our opponent far more than it does us.

Flopping to BA - knowing you guys, you'll all reveal our techniques during the match like the honourblade larper trash you are, rather than being smart and feigning defeat.

I'm pretty sure that won't happen. Even though I'm in favour of B, I'm pretty sure that people are going to try and keep our cards close to our chest.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

This makes sense. However, you have to be aware that inadvertently, you'd be giving up a lot of your own skills and techniques too. You simply can't take part in this competition without giving something away, provided the person watching you is clever and astute enough to see it. And as I've said before, I think that giving away information benefits our opponent far more than it does us.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm pretty adamant about our not using any techniques and just using normal martial arts. It may not get us too far on it's own, but I'm hoping that our willingness to fight dirty would carry us at least to a fight with one of the other apprentices.

I've flopped to BA in my original post though because the last time I voted to take part in a tournament, everyone decided to go full on retard and fight fair. Given that choice, I think a lot of people will try to actually win the tournament rather than use it to assure later victories like any person with a brain in their head would. I mean, hello? Why else would Zhang tell us a victory isn't necessary in the tournament? Bah. I'm just urinating in the wind again here, I'm sure.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I'm pretty sure that won't happen. Even though I'm in favour of B, I'm pretty sure that people are going to try and keep our cards close to our chest.

I hope you're right, given that 1A looks like a lock right now. Still, my hopes aren't high in this regard. Given the arguments last time, I wonder if some of us don't see Jing as an adulterous Dudly Do Right, rather than the Jack Bauer in China, loyal to his prince, you and I seem to regard him as.

 

[Baltika9]

A is nowhere near as bad as you guys think, one of Jing's new habits is tricking and trolling his opponents. Can't do that without trolling material, right?

I'm not so sure we should even get involved in the fighting proper, we can just pretend to be a nobody and sit on the bleachers observing their general strategies and stalking them in between the matches, studying the marks.

We won't get that much out of it, just their general character and the strategies they show in the matches (it was an excellent comment that they'll want to go all-out in their finals to prove their school the best), but conversely they will know next to nothing about us.

Or we can pretend to be a nobody, start socializing with them and sow the seeds of discord and then challenge them all at once. I really like this idea, but it will be difficult as hell:

In fact, you can even opt to call them all out and take them on at the same time to prove your superiority, finishing your mission in one dramatic (and possibly cunning) climax. That'd minimize information leak.

Edit:

I've flopped to BA in my original post though because the last time I voted to take part in a tournament, everyone decided to go full on retard and fight fair. Given that choice, I think a lot of people will try to actually win the tournament rather than use it to assure later victories like any person with a brain in their head would. I mean, hello? Why else would Zhang tell us a victory isn't necessary in the tournament? Bah. I'm just urinating in the wind again here, I'm sure.

But seriously, I think we got over that retardation. Or at least I did. Still against poisons.

 

[TOME]

I'm all for Jack Bauer in China. Just remember that it includes traps and poisons, if necessary.

 

[Jester]

Hmm does wining the tournament can be considered as fulfilling Zhang request? I mean it will be
If not after elimination part we would face half of our targets? Rest would be beaten by people we had moped floor with. Guess possibility of defeating champ could be tempting for runner ups.

Btw does qi techs like that palm poison tech of black lady is still possible to be extracted by other people like Yao or extracting foreign qi is limited/negated?
Does techs based on injection of qi at tiger works with those meridians or are negated like healing us with qi? I assume those thunder and fire based will work as they dont need to be in our body to do charm but poison shouldn't?

 

[Jester]

The first technique he imparts to you is the Jinshetuipi (金蛇蛻皮, Golden Snake Shedding Skin). It is an unorthodox qinggong technique that specializes in avoiding an enemy's clutches via erratic movements - he perceived your high agility and deemed it useful for you. You accepted the technique with little hesitation; you had lost your scroll for the Yinglang Step together with the rest of your possessions when the bandits attacked.

I know that we had forgotten the Duncao Legs at the Manor, but I was under the impression that the other technique that Yao taught us was still with us.

Didn't it fuse with wolf step?

Kuanglang Step. (狂狼步 Mad Wolf Step).
Level 4: You can move quietly at running speed in normal surroundings and hold yourself still in shadows. You can also shrug off poor grapplers, tumble, roll and dodge acrobatically, as well as run up low walls. (+2 Sneak, +1 Agility)

Yinglang Step. (影狼步 Shadow Wolf Step). A wolf is silent and stealthy in its hunt. This qinggong technique teaches the user to move swiftly, gently and quietly in the wilderness to avoid attracting attention.

Looks that way.

 

[ScubaV]

AA
We don't even have to fight. Let's see what choices are available.

 

[Baltika9]

You will also go in B due to your curiosity (though depending on how things play out you might have a choice to give the whole thing a skip), but the major difference here is that participating gets you access to the 'locker room', so to speak. You could hang around the audience area, take notes, watch them fight, but unless you get lucky and manage to find some elder pugilist standing next to you to serve as a plot device, you're just going to get less information than you would have by taking the risk of participating and actually hanging around the fighters when they're not fighting.

I'm getting confused: A has us go to the tournament where we can either enter under a false identity through lying, announce our presence and compete.

B has us just drop by, sit anonymously in the bleachers , or announce our presence, troll them and just watch the whole thing unfold.
Right?

 

[LWC1996]

1B 2B




Can anyone give a good reason why we can't go to Yuhua AFTER the f-ing tournament?? What on earth is SO urgent that you think you might miss there?
Your info is already nearly THREE YEARS old anyway, what harm can another month or so do?

And also, what is wrong with going to see Yao and Cao'er first? After all, you did give up 11/2 years of your life training under Master Zhang to save their lives. So wouldn't you want to know how they are doing? Cao'er's high intelligence and perception can help with our analyzing of moves if we go pick her up first.

 

[Baltika9]

1B 2B




Can anyone give a good reason why we can't go to Yuhua AFTER the f-ing tournament?? What on earth is SO urgent that you think you might miss there?
Your info is already nearly THREE YEARS old anyway, what harm can another month or so do?

And also, what is wrong with going to see Yao and Cao'er first? After all, you did give up 11/2 years of your life training under Master Zhang to save their lives. So wouldn't you want to know how they are doing? Cao'er's high intelligence and perception can help with our analyzing of moves if we go pick her up first.

Easy, after the tournament we'll have to focus on Zhang's task which means the investigation will be delayed for much, much longer.
Also, the Brothel doesn't know of our immunity now, but after we take down the Eight Students, word will het around and they'll be ready.

 

[LWC1996]

1. You have ONE WHOLE YEAR deadline from Zhang.

2. Why do you assume the Brothel is a hotbed of hostility? Where did you get your intel on Yuhua from?

3. Even if you drop by the brothel now, you still have to continue the investigation after the tournament.
If you really want to surprise them, you might as well drop by AFTER the tournament.

Your argument is invalid.

If you go now and leave for the tournament before finishing investigation, you're going to tip off the woman that someone is looking for her. Or are you that naive to think that the case will be closed just by going there?

 

[Baltika9]

A. You decide to join the Young Tigers Martial Arts Competition with the invitation you have been given. The potential knowledge, contacts and benefits you may accrue from participating are too tantalizing to give up.

B. You decide not to join the Young Tigers Martial Arts Competition with the invitation you have been given. Given your reputation, it is too risky. You would prefer to keep a lower profile before you begin your challenges to each of the sects so that they do not know your capabilities.

Read comprehension=critical failure. Flopped to BA, since it's the tricky, low profile approach I thought A was, for some reason. Be like a Tigerwolf, stalk our prey without it knowing.
Also, I somehow didn't notice this:

The competition format is divided into three stages: A battle royale, four-on-four team matches, and finally a regular elimination tournament. The battle royale and team matches are preliminary, and contestants can opt for either form of match to qualify for the tournament.

With all these vareities of fights, one of them will figure our trick out, just like we'll be trying to figure them out. Even if we pretend to be someone else, our techniques are still one hundred percent unorthodox and one of the Eight Students will eventually piece the picture together and catch onto the plot. Mystary Jing may have been able to pull off the obfuscation under the circumstances, but not Sneaky Jing.
Sitting on the sidelines under disguise, observing our prey and then stalking them around town will be more within our specialization and will leave us with the advantage down the line.

1. You have ONE WHOLE YEAR deadline from Zhang.

2. Why do you assume the Brothel is a hotbed of hostility? Where did you get your intel on Yuhua from?

3. Even if you drop by the brothel now, you still have to continue the investigation after the tournament.
If you really want to surprise them, you might as well drop by AFTER the tournament.

Your argument is invalid.

If you go now and leave for the tournament before finishing investigation, you're going to tip off the woman that someone is looking for her. Or are you that naive to think that the case will be closed just by going there?

1. We won't beat them in a month, dude. Also, China is fucking huge, we'll spend aroind three months on transportation between the monasteries alone.
2. Because the black-clad assassin is affiliated with them in some way, shape or form, as evidenced by her knowing their signature technique. Granted, she may have been a worker that went renegade long ago, in which case they are innocent but will still be able to provide us with a name and trail, especially if we ask "nicely" , a trail we'll be able to pursue during our travels between the monasteries, might even chance on something on our way to the tournament.
3. Well, obviously, unless she's in the brothel's Sekkrit Assassin Basement. In which case we just need to find a way to notify Shun.

Also, having Cao'er and Yao at the tournament with us will raise questions. If we're going 1B, those are the last thing we want.

 

[treave]

Hmm does wining the tournament can be considered as fulfilling Zhang request?

Only if you beat whatever targets are there with your real identity.

I'm getting confused: A has us go to the tournament where we can either enter under a false identity through lying, announce our presence and compete.

B has us just drop by, sit anonymously in the bleachers , or announce our presence, troll them and just watch the whole thing unfold.
Right?

A. You can compete with your real identity. You can compete under the alias of Tigerman. Or you can abduct/kill some nobody and take his identity.

B. You can try to obtain information anonymously. You can reveal your identity as a disruption and see how they react, and search for methods to obtain information that way.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Another reason to see Yao. We'd need some hair dye to get rid of the goddamn animu hair.
Unless we wanna roll as White Tiger.

 

[treave]

Another reason to see Yao. We'd need some hair dye to get rid of the goddamn animu hair.
Unless we wanna roll as White Tiger.

It's just streaks of white. Not entirely white.

But yes, it will be rather recognizable if you don't cover it up.

Azira - AB
Smashing Axe - AA
Zero Credibility - AB
Grimgravy - AB
The Brazilian Slaughter - BB
Ifeex - AB
Jester - AA
Esquilax - BA
ERYFKRAD - BA
Nevill - BA
Baltika9 - BA
Kipeci - AB
TOME - AB
Kashmir Slippers - AA
m4davis - AB
XenomorphII - AA
Stygian Lurker - AA
Lambchop19 - BB
ScubaV - AA
LWC1996 - BB
Tigranes - AB

***

Current tally:

1. A - 14, B - 7

2. A - 10, B - 11

 

[LWC1996]

A. You decide to join the Young Tigers Martial Arts Competition with the invitation you have been given. The potential knowledge, contacts and benefits you may accrue from participating are too tantalizing to give up.

B. You decide not to join the Young Tigers Martial Arts Competition with the invitation you have been given. Given your reputation, it is too risky. You would prefer to keep a lower profile before you begin your challenges to each of the sects so that they do not know your capabilities.

Read comprehension=critical failure. Flopped to BA, since it's the tricky, low profile approach I thought A was, for some reason. Be like a Tigerwolf, stalk our prey without it knowing.
Also, I somehow didn't notice this:

The competition format is divided into three stages: A battle royale, four-on-four team matches, and finally a regular elimination tournament. The battle royale and team matches are preliminary, and contestants can opt for either form of match to qualify for the tournament.

With all these vareities of fights, one of them will figure our trick out, just like we'll be trying to figure them out. Even if we pretend to be someone else, our techniques are still one hundred percent unorthodox and one of the Eight Students will eventually piece the picture together and catch onto the plot. Mystary Jing may have been able to pull off the obfuscation under the circumstances, but not Sneaky Jing.
Sitting on the sidelines under disguise, observing our prey and then stalking them around town will be more within our specialization and will leave us with the advantage down the line.

1. You have ONE WHOLE YEAR deadline from Zhang.

2. Why do you assume the Brothel is a hotbed of hostility? Where did you get your intel on Yuhua from?

3. Even if you drop by the brothel now, you still have to continue the investigation after the tournament.
If you really want to surprise them, you might as well drop by AFTER the tournament.

Your argument is invalid.

If you go now and leave for the tournament before finishing investigation, you're going to tip off the woman that someone is looking for her. Or are you that naive to think that the case will be closed just by going there?

1. We won't beat them in a month, dude. Also, China is fucking huge, we'll spend aroind three months on transportation between the monasteries alone.
2. Because the black-clad assassin is affiliated with them in some way, shape or form, as evidenced by her knowing their signature technique. Granted, she may have been a worker that went renegade long ago, in which case they are innocent but will still be able to provide us with a name and trail, especially if we ask "nicely" , a trail we'll be able to pursue during our travels between the monasteries, might even chance on something on our way to the tournament.
3. Well, obviously, unless she's in the brothel's Sekkrit Assassin Basement. In which case we just need to find a way to notify Shun.

Also, having Cao'er and Yao at the tournament with us will raise questions. If we're going 1B, those are the last thing we want.

No one’s saying anything about beating them in a month. But if you think that time is so tight that you can't afford to investigate after the tournament, then what is the point of even starting the investigation now in the first place? So that you can get another lead and sit on it for another year?

Next, you say that you might be able to pursue the lead while on your way to the monasteries. Let’s say you are right. What is stopping you from doing that by obtaining the lead AFTER the tournament, and doing the pursuing then? You lose what, a month or two at the most off the investigation?

Also, good idea, asking around about a female assassin at a place that YOU think may still be affiliated with her, just before you want to go and spy out a tournament INCOGNITO. That’s just short-sightedly asking for trouble. If you want to assume the brothel is hostile, then also assume that they're far more experienced and better at the manipulation and sneaky game than you are.

A wet behind the ears 17 year old boy isn’t going to out-manipulate an experienced older woman who’s seen her share of men (ahem). Remember Madam Jiang? Now that, x100. If you want to keep a low profile, you do it right and you don’t bring ANY attention to yourself until the need to hide has passed.

Also, what is wrong with the Killer Physician being at the tournament? It's a wuxia tournament. Where there are tournaments, there are bound to be injuries. Where there are injuries, there is a need for a physician. So, it's a perfectly legit reason for Yao and Cao'er to show their faces there. Besides, it would be an utterly stupid move to hang around them 24/7 or stayin the same room with them, if you’re trying to go incognito.

And, I don’t see any good reasons at all to go for 2A. You’re just jumping at the first chance to proceed on the mission for Shun out of desperation without thinking whether the timing is right or not.

And just to remind you, I am arguing from your assumptions.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I think Yao is only a good idea if we actually plan to win the tournament - again, a bad idea. (Having Yao there to heal us obviously.)

Otherwise I have a feeling that Yao and Cao'er would complicate things - both because of our oath to him and because exposing them to our enemies as weaknesses to exploit may be a bad idea. Plus, I have a feeling that not looking up our nemesis will have consequences down the road - like not looking into the cult led to them dropping an asteroid on the planet in the other LP...

edit: LWC1996 makes some good points though.

edit: Actually, yeah, flopping to BB.

 

[LWC1996]

Lambchop19, you've made a a fair point that I believe some people here are concerned about regarding exposing Yao and Cao’er to danger, no matter how careful you are.
But on the other hand, if your enemies did a bit of checking into your history, they’d also find out how you came to be apprenticed to Zhang.
I think that would already reveal that the two can be your weak points, so it’s not much more risk than you already bear.

In terms of benefits, I’m arguing for B because Cao’er’s perception and intelligence will be very useful.
She has photographic memory, which will help you if your aim is to spy out the enemy’s techniques and skills.
Considering the advantage here it’s just a better choice for fulfilling your objective IMO.

Besides, I'd rather Jing's be finding the people he cares about than to focus on his loyalty and mission.
He did volunteer to go with Zhang to save Yao and Cao'er. This does show Jing's first priority is Yao and Cao'er

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Another reason to see Yao. We'd need some hair dye to get rid of the goddamn animu hair.
Unless we wanna roll as White Tiger.

It's just stripes of white. Not entirely white.

Fix. White Tiger it is.

 

[Kipeci]

I flopped to AB.

 

[Baltika9]

Good points from LWC, I'll reply when I get to a keyboard. However:

Besides, I'd rather Jing's be finding the people he cares about than to focus on his loyalty and mission.
He did volunteer to go with Zhang to save Yao and Cao'er. This does show Jing's first priority is Yao and Cao'er

this is completely wrong:

Hm, I certainly didn't mean to make it sound like it was on par with his loyalty to Shun. Jing's loyalty to Shun was so absolute that he'd cut his own throat if that's what the prince required without giving a reason. As Lady Ji implied, that may have changed a bit nowadays. But it still takes priority over anything. This isn't anywhere near as drastic. You're doing favors, not receiving orders.

It's similar to his relationship with Shun as in its something Jing sees as natural, that it's a given for him to do what he can to aid his former master, something he's doing willingly in gratitude, not an artificial oath he imposed on himself as a way to convince Yao to give him the cure.

Although I like 2B for taking Jing off Shun's cock a little more.

treave, are the Emei sect expected to attend the tournament? Are they even considered in the Eight Major Sects.