[LP CYOA] Epic

[CappenVarra]

Great job, treave! This infodump with the sample C&C chart really threw everybody into panic mode Just reading the resulting frenzy has unlocked a whole new trolling skill tree in my mind

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Esq.'s C

 

[Esquilax]

Edit3: Seems to me the reason treave gave us the metal knowledge is that he is either fucking with us, big time (in which case, it is a most excellent troll) or just doesn't want this LP and Ean to end.

I hope it's the latter. I like Ean a lot as a character, and from a gameplay standpoint, there's never a dull moment with all the war and battle he's involved in. As cool as Shulgi is, I find him more interesting as a rival/adversary than I do as a PC. The motivation of "MOAR POWER!!!" isn't nearly as interesting as what motivates Ean's character. You can't really beat "Guide and prepare bronze age humans over the millennia to fight extra-dimensional beings of incredible power" as a motivation.

treave: I find it very interesting that we gained a point with Sekhenun by refusing to let her feed. Has Ean's sense of honor and morality rubbed off on her? I know that she has a distaste for eating her own kind, but does that now extend to humans as well?

Zero Credibility: We didn't need an army because there were already two armies tearing each other apart in Greece anyways, the chaos would have worked to our advantage. Our presence there have would allowed us to nudge events in our favour - by going to Egypt, we became a passive observer in an event that was far too important to leave up to Zeus and Marduk. As I mentioned before, we also had an ace up our sleeve in the form of Edem. Leaving things up to chance like that was stupid.

It was clear to me that both sides were evenly matched, and a victory by either side before we intervened would have tipped the balance to the winner to a point where we wouldn't be able to defeat them. Lastly, what the hell are we doing all of this for? Our objective is to defeat Marduk and Zeus, it's the entire end-game of all we've been trying to ahieve. Petty empire-building and hunting down some pissant Olympian out of sentiment for Egypt don't accomplish our goals. They were both bullshit distractions from our real purpose, so they were both bad ideas. treave even told us that a duel with Marduk was winnable, which I took to mean "hey, you should probably go fight him now".

Too late to take it back now, though. Hopefully we can still salvage things by manipulating Ares into a battle with Marduk once we arrive at Olympus. But I have to stress that we've got to be smart in how we play this. We need to point Ares towards Marduk without getting our hands dirty and wasting any of our energy in the process.

Once we get there, I actually think we should go after Zeus, not Marduk. The whole reason that Marduk is in Greece in the first place is to eat Zeus and absorb his powers, so if we take Zeus out of the equation (we're Unbound and we have our toxin to aid us), we deprive Marduk of his meal.

We're going to have to time things extremely well if we want to save our skin and take both of them out of the picture. This late in the game, we need Ares' help to wear down Marduk or else we'll lose for sure, but if we fuck up and he finds us before we've managed to set him towards Marduk, we're completely fucked here. I hope Edem is alive when we get there, but I'm not optimistic about that.

Kipeci: The reason we fight against the Olympians is because most of them serve the whims of the Masters. Our existence and our nature is something that the Masters find dangerous because we're something they can't control. When you look at Ean's overall goal of raising up Humanity to one day become strong enough to face them, along with the possibility of an alliance with the Gieloth should Sekhenun's faction prevail, it's obvious why the Masters and the loyal immortals with properly functioning voices (i.e. Naram), all want to kill him. Because of this, it's smart to assume that most Immortals are an enemy until they prove otherwise.

Zeus is almost as much of a threat to us as Marduk is, so he's got to go too. On the list of gods, I see Artemis being a good potential ally. Maybe Athena? That's about it.

 

[newcomer]

Esquilax's C

treave
I don't think we'll need more thinking time under normal circumstances, seeing how other open choice LP like Vernydar's can go for daily update. I prefer more often update if you can handle it (unless there's too much debate like the Tjaru update)

 

[Zero Credibility]

Zero Credibility: We didn't need an army because there were already two armies tearing each other apart in Greece anyways, the chaos would have worked to our advantage. Our presence there have would allowed us to nudge events in our favour - by going to Egypt, we became a passive observer in an event that was far too important to leave up to Zeus and Marduk. As I mentioned before, we also had an ace up our sleeve in the form of Edem. Leaving things up to chance like that was stupid.

It was clear to me that both sides were evenly matched, and a victory by either side before we intervened would have tipped the balance to the winner to a point where we wouldn't be able to defeat them. Lastly, what the hell are we doing all of this for? Our objective is to defeat Marduk and Zeus, it's the entire end-game of all we've been trying to ahieve. Petty empire-building and hunting down some pissant Olympian out of sentiment for Egypt don't accomplish our goals. They were both bullshit distractions from our real purpose, so they were both bad ideas. treave even told us that a duel with Marduk was winnable, which I took to mean "hey, you should probably go fight him now".

The information that Ean could have taken out Marduk at that point was just more metagaming info we have been given. Ean never knew this. And he certainly didn't know that he could infiltrate two massive armies, avoid a bunch of Gieloths and immortals and assassinate both Zeus and Marduk. And now this whole situation that has been created from the last infodump. One moment we are making plans on how to save Egypt and then focus on Greece, the next we are abandoning everything and rushing over to Greece, and all based on what exactly?

And looking back at my last choice I realize I would have chosen exactly the same thing even if treave hadn't hit us with us with that last revelation. Try to negotiate with Ares, if this doesn't work take him out and proceed to Greece. That's because I just don't find it that fun to play based on metagame knowledge - what's the point in that?

So later all and have fun. And really, great LP.

 

[Baltika9]

On the list of gods, I see Artemis being a good potential ally. Maybe Athena? That's about it.

“It will be extremely interesting to see where this partnership ends up. I think you will entertain me more by continuing to travel with that monster, rather than being by my side.” Her voice drops into a seductive purr. “Of course, a man who can attract the protection of his mortal enemy certainly attracts me. Who knows… I might even close up this little shrine and come with you. The best of both worlds… isn’t that a good idea?”

I'll regret saying this, but Aphrodite may qualify as well, maybe, if she can overcome her voices. Although, I'd keep her at a cannonshot's distance, if not more.

And I sincerely hope treave is trolling us, because then we might be up shit creek with at least a paddle.
It also seems to me Sekhenun is helping us because "I like Ean, eh rebels against the Masters and doesn't afraid of anything."

 

[Esquilax]

And looking back at my last choice I realize I would have chosen exactly the same thing even if treave hadn't hit us with us with that last revelation. Try to negotiate with Ares, if this doesn't work take him out and proceed to Greece. That's because I just don't find it that fun to play based on metagame knowledge - what's the point in that?

So later all and have fun. And really, great LP.

I can respect not wanting to involve metagame knowledge in choices.

But my unwillingness to parlay with Ares isn't metagaming related. We've gelded his sons and now we've killed his troops in Pikuat, we can't offer an alliance after we've provoked him like this. If he had Sekhenun's sense of pragmatism or Ean's sense of duty, an alliance might work - but he's arrogant and petty. What would work is this:

D) Arrive at Memphis immediately to challenge Ares to honorable single combat: no powers, only physical skills. Since his powers other than his physical skills suck from what we've gleamed from reading the twins' minds, he'll accept these terms. He'll pretty much have to accept the terms because he'll look like a pussy for refusing a challenge like this from a fucking amputee who just castrated his sons.

Of course, once the duel begins, we'll cheat by using telekinesis to deflect his strikes and kill him that way. It's a subtle power, so no one will be the wiser. We'll devour him before heading to Greece.

This would work*, but it would take precious days out of our schedule. So it's really a choice between the two.

* Er... unless his physical abilities are significantly better than ours. We should be okay with some trickery and Anbar-Shi at our side.

 

[Kipeci]

When you look at Ean's overall goal of raising up Humanity to one day become strong enough to face them,

When did that become our goal? The last time I checked, we just wanted to kick out the Gieloth devouring people's souls. I'd be fine for eliminating threats in immortals who are the same level of awful to the people they rule, but as a whole I don't see the masters giving much of a damn about the existence of humanity either way. They barely care enough about us so that they didn't nuke the planet straight off the bat, once the Gieloth are gone I don't see why they'd care enough to keep up their efforts. For now, it serves our interests better to cooperate rather than to raise alarms about rogue immortals by doing something stupid like taking on the rest of the world.

along with the possibility of an alliance with the Gieloth should Sekhenun's faction prevail, it's obvious why the Masters and the loyal immortals with properly functioning voices (i.e. Naram), all want to kill him.

We've seen no indication that the other immortals recognize our completely unfettered status, the ones that want to kill us are the ones we pissed off.

Because of this, it's smart to assume that most Immortals are an enemy until they prove otherwise.

We shouldn't assume all of them are well-intentioned towards us, but we shouldn't shun an attempt to present a united front just because you suspect they may turn against us if our status were somehow revealed (remember, the voices can be lax for some. Ours let us break that artifact that would have summoned the masters into our world, cooperating with a rogue immortal against the more dangerous Gieloth seems pretty tame compared to that) and that our interests could run counter to each other thousands of years in the future.

Marduk is the much larger threat here. Remember that if Marduk starts looking too strong, the masters will not hesitate to nuke the whole Earth instead of bothering with immortals. Taking on Marduk with the help of the Greek immortals and later turning on them is much, much easier than taking on both at once.

 

[treave]

Re: update speed, one of the disadvantages with DM style in this LP is that everyone is sharing one character, which is why I'm allowing time for disagreements to be hashed out. We'll see how this goes, if there's a period of inactivity for about two days I'll begin an update?

 

[Baltika9]

Re: update speed, one of the disadvantages with DM style in this LP is that everyone is sharing one character, which is why I'm allowing time for disagreements to be hashed out. We'll see how this goes, if there's a period of inactivity for about two days I'll begin an update?

Now there's an interesting idea. Multiple characters. I think we have enough people to pull this off.
But, if the group hasn't already decided, then it'll finish deciding in about, say, two-three hours.

 

[Azira]

Multiple characters would be a right cluster-fuck... I'd rather treave concentrates on a single character, and then we'll just have to deal with it.

 

[newcomer]

Re: update speed, one of the disadvantages with DM style in this LP is that everyone is sharing one character, which is why I'm allowing time for disagreements to be hashed out. We'll see how this goes, if there's a period of inactivity for about two days I'll begin an update?

I'd say all of us have stopped arguing for now (from the reply history), but maybe you can wait another 1-2 hours more?

And for multiple characters... Interesting idea, but you will have to make sure that each group cannot see the other group's update. Maybe you can change this CYOA to pure DM style on chapter 6? What I mean everyone in chapter 6 will choose one character to play as (keep ~5 people per character? With generic agenda if the group fails to vote on time?) and we'll still get general update, but general update will be delivered from neutral standpoint (such as from the cataloging immortal POV)

Honestly I've been thinking of a multiple character CYOA too... but it's kinda hard to deliver generic update that way, and to ensure no one gets metagaming info from the other group

 

[Quetzacoatl]

Root did something similar with his 40k lp. Seperate forums for each factions were created and people who wanted to decide the course of the faction would get PMed a link to the specific forum. I remember it failing but I don't know why.

 

[newcomer]

Root did something similar with his 40k lp. Seperate forums for each factions were created and people who wanted to decide the course of the faction would get PMed a link to the specific forum. I remember it failing but I don't know why.

That's what I also thought at first, but then I remember that google search engine is amazing...

For me, to completely prevent meta-game we have to use PM for updates instead of forum (unless if some group is very meta-gamey that they are willing to create fake accountr and register as the other groups), which results in no one are able to understand the LP

It's a matter of tradeoff
If you want a lot of views & brofist & less headache, stick with CYOA, but the story can never be amazing as DM style
But I think even CYOA is already a huge commitment. I am doing a standard LP now & now I know how difficult & time-consuming it is... I can't imagine how much commitment should I spend for CYOA or DM style LP

 

[Storyfag]

treave: waiting for us to stop arguing is a waste of time. Write your stuff when you feel like it, announcing: "voting closed"

 

[Smashing Axe]

I for one prefer that we have a range of limited options, perhaps with minor room to maneuver for alterations of the plan (IE, poison at the feast), but regardless of the choice you make I'll still be reading your writing treave.

Anyway, I'm in favour of Esquilax's C.

 

[Storyfag]

I'm with Smashing Axe here. Limited choices are just fine, provided there's a *little* wiggle room grotsnik does it perfectly in his vampire LP.

 

[Azira]

I'll third this. COYA with wriggle room would be the best.

 

[Kipeci]

Let's go with limited choices, but have it so that if most people want to edit it a bit (ex. B from the last update not including the destruction of all the Greek ships) then concessions may be made.

 

[Tigranes]

I think the old method of A/B/C choices, with wiggle room, is best - otherwise it really is a lot of work to read every person's slightly different solutions, keep it all in mind, then reach a consensus. We don't actually end up choosing out of 50 different options, we still end up choosing from, say, the Smashing Axe plan or the Esquilax plan. I'll be keeping up with this nonetheless as it's fucking awesome, but I confess the recent infodump + open choice is a bit dense.

In that spirit, I second Esquilax' notion of taunting Ares so we can have a showdown.

 

[treave]

Dear Ares,

Your men are laughably weak, and as such their leader must be doubly so. You allow your only path of retreat from Egypt to be cut off by a single man. It is only through my pity that your vessels still float. Still, whatever your flaws may be, I do admire your taste in boats. That it will convey me to Olympus faster than I expected is a boon from you that is much appreciated. However, your boat seems to be the only good thing about you and its size clearly a sign of overcompensation. You have proven to be a disappointment so far, and perhaps there will be blood of real quality to spill where your peers are. Truly, when I gelded your sons I brought them down to your level.

Best regards
Runi

 

[newcomer]

Dear Ares,

Your men are laughably weak, and as such their leader must be doubly so. You allow your only path of retreat from Egypt to be cut off by a single man. It is only through my pity that your vessels still float. Still, whatever your flaws may be, I do admire your taste in boats. That it will convey me to Olympus faster than I expected is a boon from you that is much appreciated. However, your boat seems to be the only good thing about you and its size clearly a sign of overcompensation. You have proven to be a disappointment so far, and perhaps there will be blood of real quality to spill where your peers are. Truly, when I gelded your sons I brought them down to your level.

Best regards
Runi

You really should make this CYOA into a novel

 

[oscar]

The notifications don't fire and once again I'm left wondering what the fuck is going on

 

[treave]

Update should be out in a few hours.

The good part: you make it to Mt. Olympus, Ares hot on your heels.

The bad part: Marduk's army just broke through the last line of defense for the Olympians and Iltani is still with you. Proposal is not going to make her go away.

The meta part: It appears that Ares came alone and left his sons and army to finish the job.

"I don't need no stinking army to rip that Runi's guts out! Roar!"
~heard shortly before Ares ran off into the wilderness.

 

[Baltika9]

Where is that damnable fisting button when you need it?

Edit: now, for our biggest troll yet: make him think Marduk is Runi.