[LP CYOA] Epic

[Baltika9]

treave: I'm guessing Sekhenun still doesn't want to spill the beans about what the hell is going on? If we go to china, it would be a good bonus to transmit messages across the Gieloth network.
Besides that, how many veteran soldiers are left after Marduk's human wave tactics? I'm talking about the guys doing the fighting. Also, has Athena been introduced to the other two Kings? How is their working relationship? Do they consider her as a Goddess or as a Queen? Does Dapimsin, by any chance, have any more spies we uncovered and can use against him?

About China: I really see no reason to leave Ean here, if we organize a competent defense. Besides, no good ever comes from ignoring problems. Someone is going to win here, and I'm not too convinced it's going to be the Immortals, or that we want them to win in the first place. Their voices may be gone, but when they return, the voices may take control again. Not good for us.

About the war: If we're serious about an independent humanity, we'll let them handle this one like grown-ups, leaving our advice, of course. The Hittites don't have our veterans, they don't have our "Übermenschen" and they certainly don't have faith in a GOD EMPRAH! to see them through this (edit: I dunno, tell them they'll get a reward in the afterlife. Worked so far for...just about everybody). But leaving Ean here is overkill. Needless overkill, even.
Greece, however, will absolutely need more troops. No bullshit, in all likelihood Greece will be their first strike, because it's right there.

treave: say, do the Hittites know about the Terasophagos? I just had a good little stratagem pop into my mind. Leave the commander of the fort these orders: you see an enemy army approaching, you unlock the gates, feign surrender, force them inside and shut the gates. Two problems, one solution.

The terror twins should stay, really. They are like walking Siege Weapons on the battlefield and afford an amazing tactical advantage to their allies. However, their close combat skills are sub-par, besides which I don't like the idea of leaving them watching our back/ballsack. Edem should be coming with us, for certain. Artemis, too.
Leave the humans where they're at, too big for them, this shit will be on Demigod level at least. And not the Ean type. Besides, the Empire will need all the commanders they can get.

About the Gieloth: I'm still wondering if we can convince them of Sekhenun's plan, but for that we need her cooperation. I strongly insist on negotiating with her again, if not for that, then at least communication capabilities.

Edit: However, I like the idea of a honeymoon with Sekhenun. You know, stange new lands, never-before seen wonders. Boats. Blood and guts.

Edit 2:

(2) Similarly, we need to be worried about going to China, of all places, and leaving the Empire in other hands. E.g. Athena as the only immortal or gieloth in the entire place is just not a very good recipe to maintain peace; leaving Sekhenun by herself to handle the core operations is better, but still risky. We need, say, Sekhenun to keep things going in Babylon; Athena to handle things only in Greece; Akilhotep in Egypt; then at least two loyal generals, one for the Hittite border and another to handle any rebellions or disruptions that arise in the empire.

They're not children for fuck's sake. Create a Royal Council for your absence and elect one person for supreme wartime command, just like Rome did.

Edit 3: however, leaving will mean the Empire needs an advanced signal network.

 

[Tigranes]

They're not children for fuck's sake. Create a Royal Council for your absence and elect one person for supreme wartime command, just like Rome did.

I'm not so concerned about the Empire staying afloat, especially if we leave Sekhenun. I'm much more concerned with leaving a good balance of powers between remaining delegates so that there are no rebellions or bids for power.

 

[Baltika9]

They're not children for fuck's sake. Create a Royal Council for your absence and elect one person for supreme wartime command, just like Rome did.

I'm not so concerned about the Empire staying afloat, especially if we leave Sekhenun. I'm much more concerned with leaving a good balance of powers between remaining delegates so that there are no rebellions or bids for power.

I was under the impression that every country's ruler was rather beloved by his people. If nothing else (Assyrians notwithstanding) wartime should bring them all together.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

Voting DAA

Although I am all for sending an away team to China to help out, Ean is still too much of a bull in a china shop to go rushing around there when he has no idea of what is going on. We need information (which incidently a well developed spy network can give us). With Ean at home we don't really have to worry about the Hittites since they will learn that if they mess with the bull, they'll get the horns.

When the time comes, a strong empire that can support a large army that moves quickly over the good roads we built can reinforce China.

Send Athena and Edem to China to help out if they are willing, but before we start messing in China, I want some trust and offers of alliance from the Chinese immortals. Look at it from thier point of view. They get a warning that the Gioleth are coming to invade, and then a few years later the same sketchy immortal that warned them shows up and says "trust me bros, they are bad news. Let me just start running things and I can keep you safe."


NOTE: If it looks like the leaving faction wins, then please change my vote to CBB. Voting "_AA" without us being around to defend us will let us know when the massive armies marching down our roads to pillage our land are coming, but at best we could score a pyrric victory.

 

[Baltika9]

Oh, and one last note about leaving: the Empire does not, I repeat, does not wage on offensive war, unless under extremely favorable circumstances, e.g they wiped out half the Hittite military and those fuckers yelling for mommy. Otherwise, I would rather not risk it.

 

[Esquilax]

I disagree with you, Azira, but you argue your position well.

The Gieloth invading china now are doing so because of the rift yes, but if the rift had not been there, they would not have stepped up their plans, ie they would have stayed in the americas preparing.
Now they've launched their assault early and are thus not as prepared as they would have liked. They might even be at a position where they can be defeated, yes.

This is true. The Gieloth threat is contingent on the rift. However, I think that the Gieloth being unprepared is a little bit of wishful thinking. They may not have come at the time they would have preffered, but they nevertheless outnumber the immortals 5:1 if you don't count demigods. Certainly, unlike Sumeria, I'm expecting the Gieloth arriving in China to be quality-over-quantity, but there's no doubt going to be plenty of tough opponents to deal with over there.

I just get the feeling that treave is dangling this in front of us like a big red cloth, daring us to charge the obvious threat, and then Suddenly a Grue appears and we are eaten. Remember, we're choosing from between 4 options here, and while the chinese threat seems the most obvious, it's also the one where the most immortals are based (as far as we can tell).

This is a serious possibility. We run off, and all of a sudden there's a swarm of Terasphagos coming out of the rift (their habits are very unexpected and erratic, so we always have to be alert), this time complete with tougher strains than the previous ones we've encountered. On top of that, there's a Hittite invasion as well. This would be potentially disastrous for us.

Our empire has existed for just ten years, maybe leaving right now would be premature. Definitely something to think about and it makes me consider flopping.

(1) xBB is also acceptable, but I just don't see how a signal system beats an empire-wide network of roads which will precede the Romans by centuries. We will have decent communication as well as so many other benefits, it just makes far too much sense. And then, of course, xxA dovetails - and actually, helps us by providing our own network of information for when Edem and/or Sekhenun are no longer around to help us. It wouldn't do to be too reliant on those who have no real obligation to stick by us for centuries to come.

You're right, a network of roads is better in the long-run, but if we leave, it isn't better for our Empire. If we head off to China, we want CBB. Here's why:

• Roads, much like our education system, are a long term investment. We have a large empire, and building a road network will take a long time. The Hittites could easily attack us before they're built.
• As I mentioned before, roads allow our soldiers to move more easily, but they also allow their soldiers to move more easily.
• A signal system is a better bet for observing and responding to threats more quickly. If the Hittites decide to invade, the signals will let our cities prepare, so it's great for waging a defensive war. It's also a lot quicker to set up than road network and more useful in war-time. Since war with the Hittites is inevitable at this point, we need to be able to respond to them.
• A squadron of elite troops is necessary to serve in our stead should we run off to China. Superb soldiers and commanders that lead from the front. Because we won't be around to stop the Hittites, we'll need to ensure that we have the most competent people in place before we leave.

Agreed that we should take only necessary personnel. This means only Edem and Artemis. The terror twins are of little use to us in China and their abilities would serve us better against the Hittites. We need all of those skilled warriors back home.

Although I am all for sending an away team to China to help out, Ean is still too much of a bull in a china shop to go rushing around there when he has no idea of what is going on. We need information (which incidently a well developed spy network can give us). With Ean at home we don't really have to worry about the Hittites since they will learn that if they mess with the bull, they'll get the horns.

When the time comes, a strong empire that can support a large army that moves quickly over the good roads we built can reinforce China.

Send Athena and Edem to China to help out if they are willing, but before we start messing in China, I want some trust and offers of alliance from the Chinese immortals. Look at it from thier point of view. They get a warning that the Gioleth are coming to invade, and then a few years later the same sketchy immortal that warned them shows up and says "trust me bros, they are bad news. Let me just start running things and I can keep you safe."

If we stay, this would be my preference, come to think of it. However, a few mistakes here:

A spy network would help us locally (i.e. Hittites, Northern Kingdom) but it would be useless to us for finding information on the other side of the continent. Also, there is no way that Athena/Artemis/Edem would go off to reinforce the Chinese immortals without Ean going as well. I don't know what you mean by offers of trust; there are a hundred or so Gieloth in China at the moment, and we did them a solid by informing them of the invasion beforehand. I don't see why we wouldn't help each other. I'm not saying that these guys are trustworthy, fuck no, but we all have a mutual interest in seeing the Gieloth out of the picture in China.

Edit: Basically, the optimal choices for whether we stay or go come down to this.

Stay (DAA): Build a road network to throughout the empire to organize our people better and shorten our trip to China. It would still take a long time to get there, but at least it would be smooth sailing until we hit the Indus Valley. The Gutians are pacified and wouldn't fucking dare give our army trouble. With Ean around, hard power won't be as necessary, so we can use spies to monitor the Northern Kingdom and possibly steal their secrets of iron. Not as fancy as super-soldiers, but fucking effective.

Go (CBB): Prepare for Hittite invasion with signal tower communications to give our cities advance warning and train the best men in our kingdom (i.e. Gursu) to be great generals and soldiers so that we have someone to rule in our stead.

 

[Kukulkan]

CBB
Off to China!

 

[Baltika9]

Also, no mortals should be going along with us. Why? They can't shapeshift, hence they won't blend in there.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

A bunch of interesting stuff

Brosquilax is right, building roads and an espionage network really only is the best idea if we are around to defend it. However I feel that they both can be expanded towards China once we get the local logistics down.

However, if the "visit China votes win" then we really need an army and a signal network.

Personally I feel that going to China may or may not enable us to influence the situation there, but it certainly will make things rougher here.

Editing my post to reflect this.

 

[ScubaV]

I'm voting DAA, but I won't be disappointed if CBB wins. I'd rather have Ean focus on his own empire for now with the Hittite and Terasphagos problems still lurking. The Chinese immortals may be able to hold their own. They've been seemingly undisturbed and able to build power since the beginning of the LP and have advance warning. If not, we can still roll in to save the day during the tree phase.

 

[Storyfag]

Flopping to DAA in the original post.

 

[Baltika9]

Now that I think about it, both paths have merit.
Needless to say, there will be

.

The Gieloth invading china now are doing so because of the rift yes, but if the rift had not been there, they would not have stepped up their plans, ie they would have stayed in the Americas preparing.
Now they've launched their assault early and are thus not as prepared as they would have liked. They might even be at a position where they can be defeated, yes.

Perhaps. However, we should always keep in mind that the Gieloth are a subversive force, in that they infiltrate and spread. Sekhenun showed us that they can also mask their presence and if she could do it, the others conceivably could as well, or maintain a low enough profile not to be noticed until the last moment. Coupled with their new plan, that plays exactly to this, they may inspire a massive rebellion against the Immortals and win.

To this, however, a counter: we have warned the Immortals. They are aware that the Gieloth are coming, even if they do not know when and where. And if their nation will start to become unrestful (e.g: rebellions, riots and uprisings) they will be in a position to counter it, because they will know who is most likely pulling the strings there. And then, the Gieloth will become desperate and will try to rush them, running head-first into the likes of Sun Tzu.
We may arrive there and find that we are completely unnecessary to the Immortals and just stand there, wasting our time.

Of course, if the Gieloth will be winning, the Immortals may decide to slam the panic button and summon a Master. And then we're fucked.

However, to that there is also a flipside: Do we want any side to win? Either could be rather harmful to our agenda. Which is not the same as the Immortal, Master or Gieloth agenda. Because, in the end, neither are our friend as a group right now (especially not the Masters). They may be in the future (something tells me if we end up in China, we will be in a position to befriend one faction over another), but that is not a fact.

Also worthy of consideration are the voices: we do not know when they will return and we don't know how strongly the Immortals of China are influenced by them and we also don't know why they are gone. For all we know, the new Master, who sounds like a smart motherfucker, may be repurposing/upgrading/reprogramming them for better control and on-the-ground surveillance, or reprogramming them with new data to transmit to the Immortals.

Hell, we don't even know if the Chinese voices are gone in the first place, and if Aphrodite could discern our loss of power and Zeus could discern our nature, who says the Chinese Immortals, who were gathering power from the beginning of the LP, can't do the same.

And, finally, there is the fact that, yes, the Terrasphagos will come swarming out once we leave, just as the Hittites are invading and this will be the exact time the Emperor is needed. Our Empire doesn't have the modern weaponry of the North and are about to enter a war with an equal opponent. Greece is almost devoid of soldiers, the only place that can somewhat work to our advantage is Olympus and it's garrison. Maybe even implement a variation of Scorched Earth tactics and release them if Greece is falling.

Or, this could be incorrect speculation and there is no Hive Fleet coming through the Warp. So far, we have seen no proof of them throwing anything besides sub-sentient lifeforms at us. There is just the threat of the Hittite Empire, that can be dealt by our own men on their own strength in a defensive war, especially with the support of Athena, Phobos, Deimos and Edem. And we end up wasting our only opportunity to manipulate China to our benefit (yes, I still think there is a chance to turn the Gieloth to our side, or at least convince them of Sekhenun's plan, because I have not yet heard otherwise. Zerg expies they may be, but we so far know that they can be negotiated and worked with).

TL;DR: Both options have their merits. Staying will stabilize our corner of the world, we will be able to keep an eye on Olympus, make the Hittites scream for mommy and daddy and advance our technology exponentially. It will also allow us to build up to face external threats, which will come.

However, I consider going to China the superior option here: it allows us to know about our neighbors and manipulate the outcome to suit our needs. With Ean's and Sekhenun's abilities to blend in, we have the perfect infiltration team. It also allows us to get to the heart of the Mater-Gieloth conflict, we may even be able, in tandem with Sekhenun, to convince the Gieloth to abandon their "EAT FUCKING EVERYTHING!!!1" plan and work with her to develop wormhole tech. Or, we may not, and instead curbstomp the Gieloth and persuade the Immortals to swing to our side, like we're doing with Athena and Artemis. It's a risk, but one I'm willing to take.


'Sides, a honeymoon with Sekhenun? I'm in.

Edit: Of course, if the Terrasphagos really do send in the Hive Flett then, well, fuck.

 

[Esquilax]

I'm pretty sure that the vote here is altogether rather than separate, otherwise the outcome would be pretty lulzy.

Also, no mortals should be going along with us. Why? They can't shapeshift, hence they won't blend in there.

I'd also like to mention: neither should the Terror Twins. They are going to be far more useful against the Hittites than they are in China. In Xia, they're going to be two lowly demigods out of a few dozen, but in our empire, their psionics would be devastating against the Hittites. They should stay and either help Athena or shore up our Assyrian border. Either way, these guys will do very well against a purely human army.

Baltika9, Sekhenun can't go either. It would be wise for her to stay behind and study the rift for when we return. She's the only one that can figure it out. So that would leave two allies to take with us: Artemis and Edem. We're going to have to take the Gieloth out from the inside with Edem if we go to Xia, but I'm not yet sure how Artemis would fit into our plans. Given how many Gieloth are in China right now, this will be difficult. I'm predicting a lot of playing both sides against each other as kind of a double agent.

Also, I'm dying to see if one of the Chinese immortals is Naram/Shulgi. I am pretty sure that Shulgi awoke after being scorched by Naram only relatively recently, so Naram might be the leader of the Master-loving immortals. If so, it would be very interesting to talk to him now that the voices don't affect him at the moment. Actually, I always thought that Naram was an alright guy despite the deranged fanaticism, maybe we can get through to him?

Brosquilax is right, building roads and an espionage network really only is the best idea if we are around to defend it. However I feel that they both can be expanded towards China once we get the local logistics down.

However, if the "visit China votes win" then we really need an army and a signal network.

Personally I feel that going to China may or may not enable us to influence the situation there, but it certainly will make things rougher here.

Oh man, if we get that local logistics down, the speed of information flow and our Empire's power projection would expand considerably. We are already on our way to spreading literacy, once you combine that with an advanced infrastructure of roads, a spy network is going to ensure that we know whatever is going on around us. Finding out the Northern Kingdom's secrets of iron tempering is also going to be pivotal.

Goddamn it, this choice is difficult.

 

[Baltika9]

Goddamn it, both choices just seem so interesting.

It's basically a choice between Civ4 and CIA. Do we stay and build THE Empire or do we go to China and prevent/manipulate world disasters to our benefit, while at the same time discovering what the fuck is going on.
And Sekhenun, I think, should come with us. She is the only one who can experiment with the rift. She is also the only one who can explain her plan to her kinsmen, thus dissuading them from going full retard (really, letting them turn into a world-eating tree? I see nothing dangerous about this whatsoever!). Also, she and her faction came up with the wormhole plan before Olympus. Hell, I still don't know who a better ally would be here (world-eaters that act out of absolute necessity or well-intentioned extremists that summon their asshole masters through sacrificing human lives, I wonder who the better of the two is?). Ean's nature could also serve to establish a queer sort of kinship with the Gieloth, both eat living sentients to survive.

Besides which, Edem's psychokinesis should be of more use in the Hittite war. Pity we can't send him to their king as an emissary and fry his brain.

 

[Esquilax]

You know what, it's become clear to me that maybe comparisons to the Marduk situation aren't valid here. When Marduk was attacking Olympus, the war was already in full swing and he had the might of Egypt backing him up. In this case, the war hasn't even begun and the Immortals are aware of the threat in Xia:

Ten years after the empire was established, it was in a pretty good position. It was then, though, that you learnt that the Gieloth had begun landing in the east, attempting to infiltrate power structures of the powerful reigning Xia dynasty while simultaneously building up their own base south of the Xia. Artemis informed you that the immortals there currently numbered about twenty, with dozens of demigods at their beck and call, while you had no concrete figure about the Gieloth number, though they were estimated to be in the hundreds. It looks like the Gieloth had a new plan, to attempt to topple the immortals by trickery first. Still, as the immortals had been warned and were expecting their arrival, the Gieloth would probably find their efforts frustrated, and as they grew desperate, launch an attack outright.

As a result, I think we have some breathing room to consolidate. I mean, fuck, our empire is only ten years old!

Well, what we'll need to do is pretty clear then: use our spy network to gain an advantage against the Hittites and to gain more knowledge on the Northern Kingdom, with hopes of stealing their tech. We'll vassalize the Hittites with minimal bloodshed, adding their large army to the Empire. With a sophisticated bureaucracy, good infrastructure from roads, and a literate populace, this won't strain our administration.

Then, we'll use our road system to move our army through Gutian territory. We've managed to subdue the Gutians, so I don't think we'll encounter any problems if we go through their mountains:

A military expedition to China would've involved suppressing the revolting Indus so that you can pass by, and from there scout out a path to the Chinese lands - you have the advantage because you know how far it is there, and roughly what to prepare for. If you do not go through the Indus, but take a direct route west, you're going through the mountains of Central Asia, past Gutian territory.

In this way, we can avoid the rebellious Indus Valley and take the more direct route to China, which should cut down the time it takes for our journey.

 

[ScubaV]

Here's my unofficial tally:


newcomer- CBB
Baltika9 - CBB
Azira - DAB
Esquilax - CBB
Smashing Axe - CBB
Storyfag- DAA
CappenVarra - DAA
TOME - CBB
Arpad - CBB
Bloodshifter - DAB
Lambchop19 - DAA
Omicron - DAB
Tigranes - CAA
Computer Gamer Refugee - DAA
Kukulkan - CBB
ScubaV - DAA
Kipeci - DAA

It depends how treave counts it. As a cluster:
CBB - 7
DAA - 6
DAB - 3
CAA - 1

Separated:
1) D - 9, C - 8
2) A - 10, B - 7
3) B - 10, A - 7

 

[Kipeci]

I voted for DAB, you must have missed my post or something.

Anyway, my attachment to B for third isn't enough to let going for D lose. I switch to DAA!

 

[newcomer]

Flopping to CBB then

 

[Esquilax]

This is going to be a flip-flopping arms race!

 

[Baltika9]

Also, consider this. We can't and won't be around to guide this empire forever. We can get knocked out/die/go away to do important shit.
Always remember that in the end, we will HAVE to leave it alone, because Ean will eventually go evil. They need to learn to fend for themselves, while Ean is still in his right mind to bail them out.
Yes, if we leave now, we won't be around to guide it in the Hittite war, or against the Terrasphagos. Yes, they will get out of it with a bloody lip and smashed nose. All a part of learning, adapting and overcoming.

 

[Kipeci]

By the way, Esquilax, what are you going for? Your vote is CBB, but you seem to be arguing more for DAA in your more recent posts.

Edit: We won't be around to guide the Empire forever, sure, but ditching it in its weak formative years isn't going to do much good. Manpower still hasn't recovered since the devastating wars before, especially in the areas nearest to the Hittite threat, so despite our empire being currently much larger it has about the same forces dispersed in funny areas such as just around Mount Olympus or on the other side of the empire dealing with Gutians. You're proposing that we leave with some of its more talented powers along with ourselves to go on adventures in China.

They'd be rather hard-pressed to keep the empire together back home, and why should most of our kingdoms care about the others? Say that the Hittites conquer Greece. That means that our currently weak-ish mostly autonomous kingdoms need to divert precious resources that could be spent bulking up their own defences for their own lands people to launch a tricky naval operation to relieve Greece that might not actually work again the roughly equally matched Hittite army, and then who knows what will happen with the Terasphagos if that gets screwed up?

I'm okay with going off to China, but let's take the time to secure home, first. China has at least twenty immortals and tons of demigods and is going against Gieloth that are almost certainly more of the trash mob variety. They can handle the situation for us to arrive later or even take care of it entirely by themselves.

 

[ScubaV]

Yeah, if it wasn't bolded I may have missed it, edited it in now though. Azira, Bloodshifter, Omicron, Tigranes you guys have the outlier votes. If treave decides to go with cluster voting here you may want to change it up.

 

[treave]

I'm not going with cluster because there aren't any options that screw up the others or any combinations that would lead to total disaster.

 

[ScubaV]

Ok, edited to reflect that the votes are going individually. Currently it would result in DAB. Let the flip-flopping gamesmanship commence!

 

[Baltika9]

treave, If we asked Sekhenun right now to tell us about the Master-Gieloth conflict, what would her answer be? Would she demand anything in return?