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treave

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Codex 2012
They don't want to go. They're not convinced it's a good idea to go in. :lol:

Did they provide any reasons?

Well, you haven't given them any good reasons to jump into a rift they know very little about. They trust you, but not enough that they'd obey your every command. "It's to save the world!" doesn't cut it when you have no proof doing so is going to save the world, and every proof that it is probably going to lead to a world of hurt.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

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Unless we do something now, the rift will keep expanding and the next incursion will overwhelm us for sure.

I say B. Last time we tried to shortcut things using our piece Varja it backfired and led to the creation of the rift...

Flopped back to B with a rope.
 

Baltika9

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Well, you haven't given them any good reasons to jump into a rift they know very little about. They trust you, but not enough that they'd obey your every command. "It's to save the world!" doesn't cut it when you have no proof doing so is going to save the world, and every proof that it is probably going to lead to a world of hurt.

To Artemis and Athena: "Well, it's not like you have to do it, but, you know, I figured that after all the innocent people mangled to death by these monstrosities you would consider closing this thing. I mean, I know that you didn't technically open this rift, but then again if you would have been here when Marduk was besieging Olympus, this probably wouldn't happen, so you're kinda responsible tool."
Here Ean begins to shed some tears. "Maybe I wasn't the best Emperor around. Yeah, I did force you into being my subjects, and Athena, you were so bent on refusing the position, but those the school houses didn't really benefit that many people and the roads were always lacking in maintenance, but I tried, you know?"
Cue dramatic sobbing and the waterworks. "Besides, the soldiers that died for your people and country weren't really Greek, and it's not like they had families back home, with wives and children, oh won't anyone think of the poor children, and it's not like anyone behind the Wall owes their lives to them, so, you can stay here if you want, I'll...I'll just handle it myself. Oh, me? No, no I'm fine, really."

You get the point. Question is, would a guilt trip work?
 

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
kdu77.jpg


This is how I view our decision-making process in this LP. I bet Vajra's perfectly safe to use, but we've been beaten one too many time to trust it. And I still don't.
 

Baltika9

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Smashing Axe: here's how it will turn out. If we don't use the Vajra, later it will be revealed as the best possible choice. If we do use it, however, it will be the worst.
 

treave

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Codex 2012
What it does in these circumstance has already been decided at the start of the chapter (or rather,when the rift was formed) and not going to change.
 

Esquilax

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Wow, I'm late to the party.

I say B. Last time we tried to shortcut things using our piece Varja it backfired and led to the creation of the rift...

No two situations are identical, so be careful in applying that logic. Sometimes parallels can be drawn, but sometimes they fall under scrutiny. Shortcutting things with Zeus was dumb because we already had a good plan in place (take him by surprise with Edem), here, we don't have any plan whatsoever.

Every single one of our companions is pretty sure that going in is a bad idea. Honestly, B sounds pretty suicidal too. We barely managed to push back the Terasphagos on our own soil, how do you think Ean is going to manage in their home turf without any backup? How is this a better idea? The fact that we know what's on the other side doesn't make it any less dangerous. Also, assuming we survive the onslaught... then what? Traverse through a miasma filled hellhole in hopes we'll find the other pieces? There's an entire planet covered in miasma and full of Terasphagos, so I'm not sure what our next move would be. I don't see the long-term strategy here.

We see the Terasphagos coming from the rift. They thrive in the miasma, which we can survive with our filters and they can live in Earth's natural environment, at least temporarily. So I doubt the other side of the rift is some insta-death place like the void of space or something. I'm suspecting no one has returned because they couldn't find their way back.

Also, with C Vajra probably wants to do something funky with the rift. My guess is it will be one of two things: a)it completes the action started by Zeus's two pieces and opens a portal to the Masters, or b)with only one piece it also fucks up and makes the situation worse. Both of which are bad.

Here's my theory: our single piece of Vajra cannot create rifts or open up wormholes, but it can manipulate existing rifts. It can reroute the portal so that it leads to Zeus' location, rather than in the middle of the Terasphagos horde due to the connection the three pieces have with one another. Zeus had an incomplete mechanism, meaning that he could open up a wormhole to travel back to Master Command, but without the crucial third piece, he couldn't control where exactly it went. If we add the power of our piece, we can get zero in on where he ended up.

I don't think that B is any less dangerous than C, so on that note, I think a gamble is the best decision we can make. We aren't always going to have all the facts available to us, but considering that the likelihood of survival deep within Terasphagos territory on our own and without an idea of where to find the other pieces is very slim, I am willing to take my chances with the rift.

C
 

Baltika9

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+1 for the rope. At least do a test drive before we bravely go Where No Man Has Gone Before. Edited my post.

Edit:
I don't think that B is any less dangerous than C, so on that note, I think a gamble is the best decision we can make. We aren't always going to have all the facts available to us, but considering that the likelihood of survival deep within Terasphagos territory on our own and without an idea of where to find the other pieces is very slim, I am willing to take my chances with the rift.
Considering that if Vajra opens up the portal to Master Corporate Headquarters, we'd be more screwed than inside whatever hellhole the portal leads to and, much more importantly, the planet could be screwed with us. Hell, I want to believe that C is the superior option here, but the consequences of it being wrong are potentially far worse than even the opening of Olympus.
That being said, treave, is Ean's mastery of his piece complete, or near complete? I think this is the chief issue in this situation.
 

ScubaV

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I say yes to the rope. Leave instructions to pull Ean out after a couple minutes if he doesn't return on his own. If they give him some slack until they ready to pull he hopefully won't be too restricted by it.
 

Esquilax

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I'm against the rope. Ean has the ability to teleport short distances if he finds himself overwhelmed, so I'd rather not have something that restricts his movement. If it's too much for him, he could blink his way near the portal to make his way back.
 

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
I'll agree with Esquilax here, no rope. I still don't know if it's the right decision however. I'm 49:51 in favour right now.
 

Baltika9

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Wait just a second. We have fifty soldiers right here. Why not just take them with us, Ean leading the charge of course, and then have them act as runners in case we need to call for backup/to update the rest on the situation? If no one comes out in, say ten minutes, that means we need help and we need it five minutes ago.

About Vajra:
The storm you had called grew stronger. With Edem's help, you telekinetically boosted yourself over the wall. The Terasphagos had begun to swarm over the top of it. At the same time, your storm unleashed its full fury. Lightning began striking indiscriminately into the mass of Terasphagos. They shrieked as they fell, but there was always more to come.

Suddenly, you feel your knees buckle as your strength gives way for just a bit, the fatigue hitting you like a sack of bricks.

"The Vajra?" Edem looks at you, entirely unconcerned.

"Yeah. It's not something I can exert myself with. I can use all of its functions, but they take quite a bit out of me if I play with the more powerful bits."
In light of this, we should not rely on it too much. However, I don't know if the years we spent learning it for not picking it in the first update are sufficient.

Edit: in any case, the soldiers will fare better than a simple rope, which can be easily snapped by a gieloth.
 

Esquilax

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The rope is a half-measure. Best case scenario we learn nothing, worst case scenario we are trapped and overwhelmed. Are we here to scout the place or are we here to fuck around? I don't see the goal behind using the rope: what the fuck are we going to do, go through the rift, look at the bleak miasma-ridden hellscape, say to ourselves "Gee, there sure are a shitload of Terasphagos here!" then go back? We already know that there are Terasphagos there, so we need to commit ourselves if we're going through the rift solo. We're here to scout, not take a quick peek. A rope would restrict Ean's movement in combat, and his super speed + teleportation is just about the only thing that would ensure he comes back in one piece.

Considering that if Vajra opens up the portal to Master Corporate Headquarters, we'd be more screwed than inside whatever hellhole the portal leads to and, much more importantly, the planet could be screwed with us. Hell, I want to believe that C is the superior option here, but the consequences of it being wrong are potentially far worse than even the opening of Olympus.
That being said, treave, is Ean's mastery of his piece complete, or near complete? I think this is the chief issue in this situation.

How so? If Terasphagos Land is too much for solo Ean, we're toast either way. Like I said, B has no long-term viability. OK, you make it past the rift, fight a shitload of Terasphagos and assess the situation, then come back. But then what? What's your next move after this?

C is an unknown and carries a catastrophic risk, but I believe that this is the one time that we should take a gamble and roll the dice. Also, given our piece of Vajra, I'm not convinced going through the portal might not lead us to Master Corporate HQ anyways:

You had been here for nearly five hours now, and it still looked weird. You could not see anything on the other side, and trying to go around it only made your head hurt as the hole appeared to turn to follow you.

The rift clearly responds to Ean and his piece of Vajra, maybe going through with it will provoke a different reaction with Ean and his piece of Vajra than it will with other people. I don't know, considering how it seems to follow and react to us, maybe Ean won't end up on the other side either. I don't mean to stir up paranoia here, but it certainly is curious how the rift seems to respond differently to us than it does to everyone else.

The one hint that we were given was that Vajra wants to "activate" in some way, which is still vague. Here's a metagaming hint from the end of Chapter 5:

"He did not make it back."

"He panicked. He tried to get back with only two parts of the key. Of course it was going to tear a hole in the fabric of reality! It was a mistake to assign him that job."

"We tried to cut off his way back, of course he would panic!"

"We couldn't risk having that thing coming back with him. He was on his own the moment he screwed up."

"Well, what's done is done. No punishment we can think up will be as bad as his fate now."

This exchange implies that the remaining Masters over at Corporate Headquarters could have given Zeus help to bring him back, but they refused to on account of the fact that (a) he fucked up by tearing a hole in reality, and (b) they didn't want to risk bringing Marduk along for the ride. Any thoughts on this exchange, guys?
 

Baltika9

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I don't mean to stir up paranoia here,
What the fu- Stop stealing my act. It's hard enough to pass off as a complete lunatic without competition. No consideration, some people...

Onto the business at hand.
How so? If Terasphagos Land is too much for solo Ean, we're toast either way. Like I said, B has no long-term viability. OK, you make it past the rift, fight a shitload of Terasphagos and assess the situation, then come back. But then what? What's your next move after this?

I can only speak for myself, but you misunderstand: the security measure is not there because I want to say "Sup?" to the 'Nids. The rope/messengers are there in case we need to be bailed. If not, and the situation is stable, we can come out, tell the rest that the place is manageable, say our farewells and go in fully. A security measure, nothing more.
The Rift, however, must be closed and it must be closed now, so it's a "do or die" mission for us. However, I agree that the rope is a stupid idea, now that I think about it, not in the least because it can be easily severed. I think it would make much more sense to take some human scouts with us and have them run messages to the outside about the situation.

C is an unknown and carries a catastrophic risk, but I believe that this is the one time that we should take a gamble and roll the dice. Also, given our piece of Vajra, I'm not convinced going through the portal might not lead us to Master Corporate HQ anyways:
I am considering C myself, but we'd be gambling with the fate of our whole dimension, not just Earth, Ean and the Shin'ari Five. Only, unlike the Hittite situation, we have no spies, we have no moles and we sure as hell not the baddest motherfucker on the block in there.
I'm even half-sure that the new Master (he gives me a very strong "Inquisitor" vibe) will corner us inside of it and say "You work for me now, no arguments." I doubt this wormhole leads there, since the access was cut off from the other side. Not to mention I have the bad, bad feeling that C will give the Vajra back to the masters on a silver platter, since our mastery of it is far from absolute.

That being said, Ean has already proven he can fight the Terrasphagos and with being as far away from human meat as he can, he can fight at his fullest capabilities, not having to cover anyone else's back. Besides which, he won't be the only one inside there (even if Marduk, Zeus, Hera and Shamash are dead, there is still Ares), so we may work something out once we're on the ground.

About Zeus: I had this hunch from the first time I read that update that he was the one originally responsible for the Vajra, hence all those talks about "punishment" and abandoning one of their own. Like the Earth mission was supposed to be his penance for losing the Vajra and letting the Gieloth to sever the connection.

Edit: besides which, I think that having a fully-assembled Vajra will be completely worth the risk. Just think about the possibilities: besides the obvious, Sekhenun will have a "Staff of Open Gate +1" to aid her research.

Edit 2: treave, are the Gieloth on Earth all that is left?
 

treave

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Codex 2012
B - 8 (no rope majority)
C - 4
D - 1

***

Chapter 6.15: A Void Full of Balls

"Hm." Having made up your mind, you step closer to the rift. Someone grabs your arm - it was Sekhenun.

"What do you think you're doing, Ean?"

"Oh, nothing, just checking out the other side."

She barks a short, sharp laugh. "You really are insane. The only thing we know about the other side is that it is full of the Terasphagos, and that's really all we need to know. We'll find a way to close this eventually."

"Well, if it's full of those things, I'll just clear them out. It'll be good exercise."

"I'm telling you, don't go in there. Don't -"

You don't hear the rest of Sekhenun's plea, as you jump into the hole. It might be insane, but if it afforded you a way to close the rift by finding the two Vajra pieces, you'd do it. Sure, it's not like you know if those two pieces were nearby beyond the rift, or if Zeus was still holding on to them, or if there was anything beyond except endless waves of Terasphagos - the idea became more and more crazy as you thought about it, but you were already through, and your feet touch air.

At the same instant, a swarm of Terasphagos assault you from all sides before you've even gotten a chance to get your bearings. In one hand you whip your sword through the mass of slavering claws and teeth that surrounds you, in the other you throw bolts of brilliant blue lightning that immolates any Terasphagos it hits. Even so, their attack does not let up - here and there, they manage to break through your defenses and draw blood for their efforts. As you fight on, you notice something strange.

Firstly, you had thought the things attacking you were just bird-forms as they came from all directions, but it was not so - there were plenty of other types, including some things you have not seen back on your side of the rift before, moving effortlessly in all directions as if swimming through the air itself.

Secondly, your feet still had not touched ground.

It was impossible to fight properly while floating in nothing. With a shout, you exert a telekinetic burst that shoves away the Terasphagos surrounding you before they overwhelm your defenses. You notice that there is a featureless, white expanse stretching out beneath you, and you push yourself with your telekinesis in that direction. You land, skidding across the white ground. As you look up, you notice that the Terasphagos are circling in the air around the rift, but not coming after you. You take the chance to quickly survey your surroundings. You could feel that the miasma was present here, but it was nowhere near as thick as it was on your side. Visibility was mostly unimpeded. In the distance, there were many round, white spheres floating in the blood-red, cloudless sky. It was an ugly land. There was no sign of the other two pieces of Vajra, nor could you see any sign of any one else. Even Ares would have been a welcome sight here. The ground you were standing on was perfectly smooth and white, similar to the spheres in the distance. It was unmarked and stretched out almost as far as your eye could see, though there appeared to be a slight curve to the landscape.

You gulp. If that was the case...

At that moment, the land rises all around you, bulging and contorting into familiar shapes. The white skin of the land shapes itself, and as the skin melts away, fully-formed Terasphagos bud from the ground, snarling and shrieking. As you prepare to do battle, the ground suddenly shifts under your feet, and you find yourself falling. Down and up had no more meaning for you, as countless Terasphagos slammed into you, pushing you away from what you now knew to be a sphere that you had landed on. As you flew further and further away from the sphere, more of it came into view. There were more of these spheres all over this empty void, countless more, scattered in whatever direction you looked. You notice that the spheres were gathered near tiny little seams like the one you had entered from. Most of the seams appeared only transiently, forming and dissolving in the fabric of the void before the spheres could send any through, but on occasion, some developed into cracks, and it was towards these that the spheres gravitated. Out of the corner of your eye, a massive sphere, far bigger than the one you had been on, reaches a seam, and it begins to force its way through, creating a terrifying shriek as the red void cracked open to let it pass.

A low grumbling turns your attention back to the closest sphere, the one right in front of you. As you watch on, in horror, the featureless sphere gains features. A nose. A mouth. Two eyes. It was a face you had seen in the copper mirrors of your palace everyday - yours. The sphere morphed into a gigantic, white fascimile of your own head, perfectly identical in all ways except for its sheer size. The mouth cracked open, grinning, revealing nothing but darkness within. The skin bubbles again, as more and more Terasphagos begin appearing from it. As the lips move up and down, you realize it is trying to say something... it is trying to greet you. You grit your teeth. You had not felt it touch your mind - in fact it has no mental presence you can sense. How did it know your language? The Terasphagos that had pushed you away now surrounded you docilely, as if awaiting further orders.

***

A. The sphere has moved itself to be between you and the rift. You cannot sense the other two pieces of Vajra anywhere here - they might have been eaten, or they might be somewhere else. There is no other path you want to take - you charge the sphere, fighting to get back to your own world.

B. Another seam had just formed behind you. It would be suicidal to fight through endless waves of Terasphagos - you were already bloody and bruised just from the initial attack, and the sphere itself might have other powers that it has not shown yet. Getting ripped to pieces here would serve no purpose. You jump through the seam before it disappears, no matter where it leads you.

C. You attempt sphere diplomacy.
 

Smashing Axe

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Divinity: Original Sin
Jesus, what the hell have we gotten ourselves into? I don't see how we'd be able to defeat this sphere thing, so the next best thing I can think of is sphere diplomacy.

C

A
 

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