[LP CYOA] Epic

[treave]

Actually it is easy to wake Ean up. You don't even need the sword. Getting to where you can wake him up is was the tricky part.

So let me get this straight, in case of MadMan he was just building up his powerbase/army to reach Eans resting place?

Who says he wanted to reach that place? Fenrir only revealed that the Madman believed he would awaken should he reach Ean... not that he had any desire to.

why would we want to wake him up, tho?

Everyone else seems to want to. :shrug:

 

[Baltika9]

Everyone else seems to want to. :shrug:

So, it's a choice between "bandwagon" and "EDGA-Y!", huh?
Personally, this is one of those few instances where I couldn't care less about staying in-character. As fun as Dio is, and as much as he tickles all of my Tzeentch fanboy senses, we can't afford his shit and we need Ean back, NOW. The Empire is falling, already fell actually, apart and the only one who stands even a lick of a chance of salvaging this crap is the #1, Big E himself.

However, for all you LARPers out there, think of it this way: Dio is not stupid and would know that he, by himself, would only rule a quarter of the "Empire", fighting against innumerable opponents from both without and within(really, the royal family, for one, will surely conspire to at least marginalize him and dispose of him in the end:remember, they have a shitton of Watchers on their side), with a severely depleted military force. And what's to say Tamur or the Concordiat will not seize this opportunity to grill him from the other direction?
For him, Ean would be a means to an end, a very effective means to a very grand end, since we already witnessed his "Will to Power," and established that he is "an pretty cool guy, subdues eldtrich abominations and doesn't afraid of anything."

As good an explanation as any, but I would really like for him to eventually disappear into Olympus and go full-on Tzeentch: Giant Spheres v Diogenes Camna's giant spheres, Battle of the Millenium!

Edit:

yeah but the thing is...and let's be honest here...Ean doesn't have the cojones to lead mankind. Dio, as much as I loathe him, does.
So let Ean dream his dream of death and we'll make our own way. fuck Ean.

I disagree, rather strongly.

 

[GreyViper]

To be honest Ean does not need to lead mankind, thats what other pawns are for. All he has to be is the top dog, beating all the challengers and set the course for the mankind to follow. Ofcourse you can count on extra dimensional shenanigans to turn all the plans upside down.

 

[Baltika9]

do I really need to list the amount of stupid, emotional shit Ean over the centuries and will continue to do so? new times demand new men. Dio is he.

Considering that I was at the forefront of `99% of them, no. No, you do not.
However, that's what awesome about Ean and why he should lead mankind: face it, he's shaping up to be the GEoM of Warhammer 40k fame. His stupid, emotional and idealistic shit represents the soul of mankind. Yes, he can be a hard bastard, manipulative, guileful and cruel, when he must. But on the whole, he is a good person that genuinely cares for humanity(hell, he's more human than most humans, without actually being human) and even somewhat for the Gieloth, at least those of them that are willing to work with him and humanity. Not to mention he is a strong personality that wins genuine loyalty from his people and even enemies(see Sek and Edem).

That is why I want him back: he is both the BRO this dimension needs and the BRO it deserves.

Edit:

Enjoy your corpse-emperor, then.

Trust me, if not for these shenanigans with the Masters being able to nuke our test world if it "doesn't meet the bottom lines" and space squids fucking around with the planet and the Empire falling apart, I'd be jumping over. A pity treave can't/won't give us an opportunity to split between characters. We certainly have enough people and this setting certainly has enough lore to accommodate.

 

[oscar]

I'll have to think about this one.

 

[Baltika9]

He's a relic of another era, when heroism mattered. It doesn't anymore. He's no superhuman God-Emperor: sure, he's powerful, but nowhere in that level of power to unify all of man. And considering how the great houses work, he'd probably be dead or out of any meaningful power in months or years. Fuck that, and fuck his genuine loyalty. Ean's time is past.

I FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME!!!
To play the hero or the potential Tzeentch? Why must this be so difficult?

On a much more serious note (and without going in to the debate of idealism vs cynicism, which is better and why?. Unless you really want to(I do)), neither does Dio: he is a maimed, bi-polar, sociopathic cunt. His power is way less that of Ean, so he stands even less of a chance. His knowledge of the entities and plots outside the mundane are non-existent. Anbar'Shi is an unreliable "ally" at best. If we are to seize power as Dio right now, it will be a catastrophe waiting to happen: we already showed ourselves that Kodex Kannot into Konspiracies (see: Watchers, Aodh, RK-47 and the Imperial family, Madman, Joan, Dagrun). The only way to succeed as Dio, I think, is to go to Iceland and feed Ean to Anbar'Shi and absorb, at the very least, his memories.

Of course, my answer to that is a firm "fuck that!", but if Dio is the person you want to win this, then that is the course of action that will most likely lead to success.

 

[Baltika9]

Give me a power hungry idiot over a self-righteous god any day of the week, and at last with him, we can build something that the wind won't break.

Well, the Shin'Ar Empire lasted for three thousand years and it took the Kodex to break it(if we hadn't chosen to come back to Earth, everything would have been fine and dandy: which is the crux of the matter, it is not the characters who fuck up. It's us. And it's not the characters who succeed: again, it's us.), so I wouldn't call Ean's legacy "something the wind can break," exactly. Also, you are ignoring the fact that Ean can be awakened by someone else, as there are a hundred total "children" of his, and that would be to our detriment.

And as for "silly rabbit, heroes are so quaint": everyone says that. And then one shows up and they change their tune. Again, the power of success and failure is in our hands.

 

[Baltika9]

If you think any of the other 'children' of his can awaken him to do anything useful without Anbar'Shi, you're being naïve.

Actually it is easy to wake Ean up. You don't even need the sword.

We also know that Ean is Anbar'Shi, and vice-versa, simply divided into two separate psyches. He can also tame/subdue it and regenerate it from his body, so I would not be surprised if he could actually track it, however that last part is speculation.

and no, it wasn't the codex, Ean's personality was always goodguy-wise

Indeed it was. What I'm saying is that it was us that lead him to triumphs and failures.

 

[Baltika9]

I do see the point you are trying to make. However, our success-to-failure ratio will not change by switching characters (just look at this chapter, for instance, and all the crazy, stupid and harmful shit Dio has done, not to mention him having zero impact on the secession crisis: we are just as capable of fucking up Dio as we are Ean), it will change by us actually succeeding more, with any character. Ean has his strengths and perks Dio doesn't have and vice-versa.

However, if I understood this correctly

I think you misunderstand me. Dio is just another pawn. That's exactly the point: Dio has just enough savvy and power to keep the empire running as an expansionist nation until we find something to fuck uis over, and we'll deal with that then.

your plan is to ride Dio for all he's worth and then dump him when we're ready for the "next phase?"

i dont want to be stuck in this stupid renaissance forever

Neither do I. The stars, they're a-callin'.

 

[Baltika9]

However, if I understood this correctly

I think you misunderstand me. Dio is just another pawn. That's exactly the point: Dio has just enough savvy and power to keep the empire running as an expansionist nation until we find something to fuck uis over, and we'll deal with that then.

your plan is to ride Dio for all he's worth and then dump him when we're ready for the "next phase?"

i dont want to be stuck in this stupid renaissance forever

Neither do I. The stars, they're a-callin'.

yes

Hmm... While certainly attractive, what with keeping Ean a secret/more political bastardry/goddamn Tzeentch, it seems to me that this plan is much more risky and difficult for no good reason: what can Dio, a mere child in comparison to Ean, do that the other can't? Even when wee take away their powers, Ean has centuries of warfare, political and social experience and millenia of mental discipline(so no mind rapes by Shulgi/Fenrir/RK/Anbar'Shi/Concordiat cronies). Ean can read minds farther and better than Dio can, he is a stronger personality and has a bigger legend behind him. Not to mention that if we come across one of our old bros, we will be in a much higher position of advantage, once we get over the whole "Jesus Christ you're a retard" stage.
The here would be if all those skin grafts de-powered him to Dio's level (...they did, didn't they?)

So, in conclusion, it is an attractive idea, certainly, as it allows us to preserve some secrecy as to Ean's presence, perhaps get another timeskip and simply a more conflict-laden storyline; but in the end not enough to justify the risk and myriad of pitfalls we will come across, that won't happen if we play as Ean. At least, that's my view for now. I'll ponder it for a bit more.

 

[Azira]

I agree with Baltika9 and disagree with root. I want Ean back. For the reasons Baltika9 have listed.

As to which option will actually lead to that outcome, well. I'm not sure.

But still, even if we don't get Ean back, I'll be here for the ride all the same.

 

[Kipeci]

do I really need to list the amount of stupid, emotional shit Ean over the centuries and will continue to do so? new times demand new men. Dio is he.

Diogenes is certainly not doing any better than Ean did. Ean forged an empire that lasted for thousands of years and laid the groundwork for pretty much everything we have; Diogenes screws up at every turn because the Codex cannot into intrigue, while he's not that good at much else. Is there a single thing we've attempted with Dio that hasn't turned out disastrously aside from managing to get out of said self-inflicted disasters?

 

[Tigranes]

What matters is not Ean's personality, but his power and his reputation - because in the end we control him.

How easy do you think it will be for Dio to become the Emperor and make sure all the pieces stay together, to defeat Dagrun/Jannik, etc - compared to what happens when Ean Returns? Our immediate options will be superior because Ean is a lot more powerful, and in the long run I want this to be Ean's story for the stars.

What I don't know is if C will actually get us there effectively. Has the Anbar-shi absorption healed all our wounds? I suppose we don't know yet exactly what changes it has entailed for us, or increase in powers?

 

[Baltika9]

Azira, Tigranes: I'm pretty sure that C gets us to Iceland. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not the garrison comes with us or if we'll be able to break our "promise" to Anbar'Shi.

 

[Esquilax]

I think that root is being a little too harsh on Ean's character. Yes, he has made choices based on emotion/honor before, but many of the poor choices we made had nothing to do with honor, they were just stupid choices. Look back at the rift-jumping debacle; it was completely obvious that jumping into a rift without any support whatsoever was a terrible idea, but people were unwilling to gamble on using the last piece of Vajra. On a related note, I don't think it's a surprise that after that event, the voters have been far more comfortable with taking risks (i.e. right now, back in Skane where we met Fenrir) - that's really been the key difference in my opinion. It's important to keep in mind that Dio's own lust for power has put us in some very shitty situations as well, so things aren't so clear cut.

Now, I'm not saying that Ean should remain the idealistic, death before dishonor young man that he was serving under King Sargon and later in Egypt, but I am saying that you aren't giving him enough credit. Ean's honorable tendencies did fuck him over during the Theseus chapter, but it's important to note that we ended up being put in a difficult position because we wanted the easy way out - we manipulated Minos' daughters instead of using Aphrodite's love potion against Minos himself. And I'd also like to reiterate that the foolish choice at the end of Chapter 6 was more the result of short-sightedness and voter stupidity rather than Ean's character flaws. Really, it's all up to us.

Also, I never found Ean self-righteous at all. He was just a guy trying to do the right thing, always was, and he was never a hypocrite. Yes, he had the Gieloth hunger/corruption, but he fought it at every turn, and when push came to shove, he chose several millenia of torment over giving in to the hunger. I like Dio, but Ean will always be #1 to me.

As for this choice, there are a few things to note:

I don't think that this is the last we've seen of Anbar-Shi. I think it's down, but not out.

“But we have a promise… keep it…” muttered the sword as it faded away.

Your eyes snap open. The sword itself was still stuck in your chest, but Ban was no longer wielding it. He was slumped on the ground in front of you. As you watch, amazed, the sword melts into your body, sealing the wound. You sense that you could call it whenever you wish.
...
There is only one important thing that he has discovered since; the location of Ean's body. It is in a vault in New Athens, having being moved there a hundred years ago when the colony was first founded. He believes that he himself is the Emperor trapped in another body, and he will be able to regain his own form once he makes physical contact with the sleeping Emperor.

The sword has melted within us. So if Dio touches the sleeping Emperor, will it be the Emperor regaining his own form, or will it be Anbar-Shi feasting on Ean? This is questionable, and somehow I doubt that Ean will just come back if we run off to Iceland. I think that the sword still has one ace left up its sleeve.

It's very important to remember that Dio's lust for power can be just as much of a detriment as Ean's compassion and desire to do the right thing whenever he can. I see shades of Sebastian LaCroix in this situation. I don't think it's going to be as simple as opening the sarcophagus and achieving our full power. I think that going to Iceland might simply result in the sword devouring Ean.

 

[Baltika9]

Also, I never found Ean self-righteous at all. He was just a guy trying to do the right thing, always was, and he was never a hypocrite. Yes, he had the Gieloth hunger/corruption, but he fought it at every turn, and when push came to shove, he chose several millenia of torment over giving in to the hunger. I like Dio, but Ean will always be #1 to me.

The sword has melted within us. So if Dio touches the sleeping Emperor, will it be the Emperor regaining his own form, or will it be Anbar-Shi feasting on Ean? This is questionable, and somehow I doubt that Ean will just come back if we run off to Iceland. I think that the sword still has one ace left up its sleeve.

The concern is valid, of course, but I doubt Ean's psyche(and what a psyche it is) will go down without a fight. Besides which, the sword needs to be impaled into someone to feast on them. We can simply do this the smart way and summon the sword, put it on the side, say ten meters away from us, and then touch Ean.

 

[Kipeci]

The concern is valid, of course, but I doubt Ean's psyche(and what a psyche it is) will go down without a fight. Besides which, the sword needs to be impaled into someone to feast on them. We can simply do this the smart way and summon the sword, put it on the side, say ten meters away fro m us, and then touch Ean.

This makes a sort of sense for us, but why would Dio ever do this? He wants to get rid of Ean so that there will be no messing with his plans, so unless prolonged contact with Anbar-Shi turns results in that would simply not be an option once we arrived.
I'm thinking A or B would be the best for the situation right now, probably B. A would be glorious and all, but that'll only throw more chaos into the situation than we need. With B, we can at least cooperate with the royals and the existing power structure, instead of having to grind it into dust. A is still an option should we go with B, at least.

B.

edit: How distressing! I'd just noticed on another part of the site that I was able to begin with the fisting, but here there is no brofist option.

 

[Baltika9]

so unless prolonged contact with Anbar-Shi turns results in that would simply not be an option once we arrived.

Actually, it kinda does. See Ban, for example. And besides, I am sure there will be a valid excuse for Dio once he arrives there, to put the sword in it's place, if nothing else.

Personally, as I've said before, we need Ean, so I am willing to stretch the LARPing. Also, Dio is not stupid and would know that having Big E with him would give him a much greater chance of re-unifying the Empire that if he want at it by himself.

 

[Tigranes]

Esquilax I think that's an excellent point about the touching aspect. The safest thing to do might be to bring Ban's prone body with us, so that we don't risk our own touch sabotaging Operation Ean. Of course, then the question is whether there is any benefit to be had in us being the one to touch Ean into wakefulness...

And C for now.

 

[treave]

The safest thing to do might be to bring Ban's prone body with us, so that we don't risk our own touch sabotaging Operation Ean.

Good idea, though Dio's reasoning as to why he'd hurl a Ban on top of an Ean would be different. That'll become an option if C wins and you go to New Athens.

 

[Kipeci]

so unless prolonged contact with Anbar-Shi turns results in that would simply not be an option once we arrived.

Actually, it kinda does. See Ban, for example. And besides, I am sure there will be a valid excuse for Dio once he arrives there, to put the sword in it's place, if nothing else.

The sword didn't devour us because we were able to convince it that not devouring us now would let it consume Ean later. Ean has no such bargaining position available. Going with C means that Diogenes is resolute on making Ean's destruction his number one priority. As you said, Diogenes is smart. He has no reason to suddenly flip on the derp switch, specifically remove the sword from himself and toss it several feet away so that he can awaken Ean and beg him to conquer the empire for him or whatever. I cannot see a single turn of events that would make any part of that a good idea for Dio, so why would it even be presented?

Personally, as I've said before, we need Ean, so I am willing to stretch the LARPing. Also, Dio is not stupid and would know that having Big E with him would give him a much greater chance of re-unifying the Empire that if he want at it by himself.

Dio doesn't care about the empire in itself, Dio cares about Dio. An empire re-unified by Ean is obviously not going to be under Dio's power. It's alright to scheme how to sabotage Dio to get Ean back, I guess, but when your scheme requires him to act completely contrary to his entire character and the stated aims in the options you pick, there's a problem.

 

[Tigranes]

Dio is power-hungry but he is not megalomaniac. He knows that since the fateful day when the fates gave him an extraordinary opportunity, he has shown many moments of brilliance, but not one of his major schemes have come off and he has never achieved any kind of concrete success like, say, even the Madman did or Dagrun currently has. He knows that with a mixed record out in the field, and things in the Empire rapidly going to hell, it's going to be very very difficult for him to get anything done at Ankida.

Contrast that to being the one that brought Ean back to life, a man who Dio knows full well to be an honourable and loyal being, and thus serving as the right-hand man. I think Dio knows that that's the best route to the top for him at the moment - at least, the Dio that we played, reflected in our choices. It's a hell of a lot better than Runikylos.

 

[treave]

Regarding Dio's strength while empowered by the sword, it is slightly less than Ean before he jumped into the Olympus rift, but still considerable. He will have gained all the powers that Ean had - telepathy, telekinesis, elemental manipulation, body manipulation, psionics, and improved regeneration. The only thing stopping him from matching or surpassing Ean is that he has not succumbed to the sword like Ban did.

 

[Baltika9]

so unless prolonged contact with Anbar-Shi turns results in that would simply not be an option once we arrived.

Actually, it kinda does. See Ban, for example. And besides, I am sure there will be a valid excuse for Dio once he arrives there, to put the sword in it's place, if nothing else.

The sword didn't devour us because we were able to convince it that not devouring us now would let it consume Ean later. Ean has no such bargaining position available. Going with C means that Diogenes is resolute on making Ean's destruction his number one priority. As you said, Diogenes is smart. He has no reason to suddenly flip on the derp switch, specifically remove the sword from himself and toss it several feet away so that he can awaken Ean and beg him to conquer the empire for him or whatever. I cannot see a single turn of events that would make any part of that a good idea for Dio, so why would it even be presented?

That was a little joke.

Dio doesn't care about the empire in itself, Dio cares about Dio. An empire re-unified by Ean is obviously not going to be under Dio's power. It's alright to scheme how to sabotage Dio to get Ean back, I guess, but when your scheme requires him to act completely contrary to his entire character and the stated aims in the options you pick, there's a problem.

Tigranes got to it before I could, but yes: Dio would bring Ean back for higher chances at success at gaining power/ultimate power. As I've stated before, he has absolutely zero legitimacy, the Imperial family are a bunch of scheming dicks and extremely unlikely to hold fidelity if allied with and besides that, he may have the balls to pull this off, but we lack the skill for a hard-mode civil war.

Really, it will be like playing CK2 with 70% of your empire in total secession. Without a decent general, since we already saw the kinds of retards the Empire employs for military command.

Edit: and our "soft power" will not be of tremendous help either, most of the Watchers supported Aodh or RK and fucked us.

 

[Kipeci]

Dio is power-hungry but he is not megalomaniac. He knows that since the fateful day when the fates gave him an extraordinary opportunity, he has shown many moments of brilliance, but not one of his major schemes have come off and he has never achieved any kind of concrete success like, say, even the Madman did or Dagrun currently has. He knows that with a mixed record out in the field, and things in the Empire rapidly going to hell, it's going to be very very difficult for him to get anything done at Ankida.

How difficult, exactly? He has Anbar-Shi in his hands. The very two other options are attempting to outright establish the royals as puppets or else eliminate them and assume their place. He has fantastic powers at his disposal. It's much more of a detour for Dio to take a boat to Iceland, sacrifice all of Anbar-Shi's power (don't think that he's going to be allowed to use it when he explicitly goes back on the promise), and hope that a newly awakened Ean will for some reason decide that it's a good idea to become Dio's puppet after conquering all that territory. What reason would Ean have to accept this? Why should some discredited, backstabbing asshole be his boss in the very empire that Ean created? There's a reason C isn't labelled 'make the original emperor my vassal', you know.

Contrast that to being the one that brought Ean back to life, a man who Dio knows full well to be an honourable and loyal being, and thus serving as the right-hand man. I think Dio knows that that's the best route to the top for him at the moment - at least, the Dio that we played, reflected in our choices. It's a hell of a lot better than Runikylos.

This doesn't go with any of the choices that Dio's made, certainly not this option C. Again, let's take a look at it:

C. The greatest threat to your plans would be the awakening of the Emperor. You travel to New Athens to make good on your promise to the sword - surely getting rid of Ean now would be the wisest decision you could make.

Where in this do you see Dio begging Ean to please, please conquer out the empire because it's too hard for him?