[LP CYOA] Epic

[Baltika9]

Where in this do you see Dio begging Ean to please, please conquer out the empire because it's too hard for him?

Dio's fits of madness, his unwillingness to bow before Anbar'Shi(because no-one imposes their will on him, that's why), political savvy.

Really, all we have to do is take the first step on the road and everything else will fall into place.

Edit: and I don't see Dio begging anyone. At most, I see him offering Ean a deal, "you get something and so do I."

 

[Kipeci]

Where in this do you see Dio begging Ean to please, please conquer out the empire because it's too hard for him?

Dio's fits of madness, his unwillingness to bow before Anbar'Shi(because no-one imposes their will on him, that's why), political savvy.

Really, all we have to do is take the first step on the road and everything else will fall into place.

The text says 'surely getting rid of Ean now would be the wisest decision you could make.' I'm not sure how to be any clearer than that.

Edit: and I don't see Dio begging anyone. At most, I see him offering Ean a deal, "you get something and so do I."

Ean doesn't get anything, and he'd know it. What can Dio possibly bring to offer? It can hardly be anything but begging. That would be Dio admitting he is a weak, weak person and appealing to big, strong emperor Ean to please fix everything up and leave everything for him. Certainly, he wouldn't have Anbar-Shi's power any longer if he entered negotiations with Ean.

 

[Baltika9]

The text says 'surely getting rid of Ean now would be the wisest decision you could make.' I'm not sure how to be any clearer than that.

Yes, well, Dio is not the most consistent person around. In fact, flip-flopping and spontaneity are something of a forte of his: betraying his Watchers at the last second, sacrificing his father and lover, only to flop at the last second for saving face and greater benefit. Sacrificing an eye for his Watcher, assaulting Inge, the whole Rus debacle.

Face it, Dio is Tzeentch and he is patient. For him, Ean could be a long-term power play and Dio certainly does come off as the type of guy that would eat shit short-term to fest with kings and emperors in the long term.

Edit: really, I don't see A or B turning out any better than even the worst outcome of C, that being we let Anbar'Shi devour Ean, for reasons already stated.

Edit 2: In fact, I could very well see Dio turning into an Ahzek Ahriman and later Tzeentch figure, after he realises that Empires are petty diversions and the real power lies in the supernatural.
As contrasted to Shulgi's chessmaster Eldrad.

 

[Esquilax]

Baltika9, I'm seeing a lot of mental gymnastics and wishful thinking going on. Dio has just achieved a massive power-boost, why the hell would he become Ean's lackey? if anything, he's all the more determined to become the undisputed ruler of the universe at this point - he wants to usurp that power, not become a sycophant to it. He doesn't give a fuck about the Emperor or the Empire - he only cares about himself. Look at this:

You are Diogenes Camna. You would be a poor excuse for a man if you let such toys manipulate your reason for existence. You can sacrifice anything at all to get ahead because you knewthe universe was your plaything and nothing else mattered as long as you won. Your ego would not be defeated by some two-bit cursed sword the royal family dredged out from some vault.

He's a man with a tremendous ego who views the universe as his plaything and will sacrifice anything to get ahead. This is not a man who is content to be in second place. I agree with Kipeci entirely and I believe that there is pretty much no justification that could exist for him

I want Ean back, but nevertheless we've got this character and we can't not play as him. I see things going down in one of two ways:

1) Our control over the blade is still very tenuous:

“No… I don’t think so. You are mine.” You force the sentience of the blade under your control with a harsh effort. Soon it recognizes your logic and ceases to resist, acknowledging your will for now.

A/B: We break our promise with Anbar-Shi. This is bad. The sword will then proceed to attack our psyche while our guard is down, the same thing that we did just now. We end up like Ban, the sword hijacks our body and makes way toward New Athens, feasting on Ean. Very shitty ending.

2) C: We keep faith with the sword... for now. Once the opportunity arises, we betray the sword a second time when it won't suspect our subterfuge. Maintaining the appearance of honoring our deal now will give us options in the future. treave, I'm assuming that C doesn't necessarily lock us into doing the blade's bidding for the remainder of the chapter, correct?

On that note, I'm voting for C, nonsense of waking up with Ean and teaming up with him aside (look at the choices as they're written, not gonna happen). At the very least, with C, we have room to maneuver and outwit the sword. Going for a powerplay with A/B seems like a surefire way to end up like our pal Ban. I'd love to hear any ideas to the contrary though.

C

Flopped to B

 

[Baltika9]

Baltika9, I'm seeing a lot of mental gymnastics and wishful thinking going on.

Not really, I made it clear from the beginning that my position in this is as follows: Dio is a pretty cool guy, but I'm willing to bend here and reach for Ean. Because this IC wankery to play Dio's logical character will just get the whole goddamn planet nuked, the Empire will never be put together and the Concordiat, with or without Tamur, will swarm us. I'm calling it right now, just like I called the transplants, the sword and the secession crisis.
Why? Because Dio knows sweet Jesus fuck-all about what's going on behind the scenes here and we will be forced to choose between acquiring knowledge(wherein Anbar'Shi will manipulate him, the thing is even more ambitious than him, and strive to take over him regardless. Alliances between villains never end up any other way, especially between a 'Nid Hive Tyrant with actual sentience and ability to thing beyond "om nom nom" and the future Tzeentch) and reuniting the Empire, which will leave us in the dark for a long-ass time.

The sword needs to go back to Ean, because he's the only one who will be able to reign it in, permanently (I'm actually thinking that Anbar'Shi, now awakened and satiated with the life-force of about a hundred thousand humans will grant him a MASSIVE power boost). Dio is badass, yes, but he lacks Ean's discipline and force of will that was built up over four millenniums.

Really, all we have to do is get to Iceland and we'll get a choice and I guarantee that Dio will get a justification.

 

[treave]

You can stave off the sword's request and keep it content for a while, but not indefinitely, by giving excuses and also by feeding it people in a controlled manner from time to time. It can be patient if it needs to be.

Going C means the next update will be set on New Athens itself, where there will be at least one more major obstacle to overcome before finally reaching Ean's body. I mean, you didn't think it was going to be unguarded, did you?

 

[Baltika9]

Going C means the next update will be set on New Athens itself, where there will be at least one more major obstacle to overcome before finally reaching Ean's body. I mean, you didn't think it was going to be unguarded, did you?

Of course not, no final dungeon ever is. Precisely why I wanted to save the garrison.

Oh, one more thing: the disappearance of the Terrasphagos is not a disappearance. They are preparing another wave, I am sure. We've seen these patterns in between every invasion.

The fact that they disappeared just means it will be truly massive.

Edit:

It can be patient if it needs to be.

even worse, it can out-Dio Dio. Can you give me at least a hint on whether or not this is Pahnrath?

 

[treave]

... you're not marching 10,000 people across the continent. Well, you wouldn't have much of an army left after you marched through Skane and Gallia anyway, not to mention the logistics of getting a navy to transport them.

 

[Baltika9]

... you're not marching 10,000 people across the continent. Well, you wouldn't have much of an army left after you marched through Skane and Gallia anyway, not to mention the logistics of getting a navy to transport them.

Well, it appears I've been. Fine, then, we'll improvise. Shouldn't be a problem for the "Changer of Ways."

Edit: how about taking a small squad of elite troops, then?

 

[treave]

What elite troops, weren't you guys complaining about the dumbfucks of the Imperial army just a page or two ago? If you want access to the elite warriors of the Empire, you have to go back to Ankida to consolidate your power.

 

[Baltika9]

What elite troops, weren't you guys complaining about the dumbfucks of the Imperial army just a page or two ago? If you want access to the elite warriors of the Empire, you have to go back to Ankida to consolidate your power.

Alright, are there any dumbfucks less dumb or fucked than the rest? Someone remaining with any experience? I'm talking about a crack team of about twenty-thirty most experienced vets. IF there are none, well, I guess Iceland's defenders will get humiliated by one person.

 

[treave]

Iceland's defender.

Should be hint enough, really.

 

[Baltika9]

Iceland's defender.

Should be hint enough, really.

I'd kiss you right now if I could, but I don't want to be misunderstood.

Sek/Edem/Artemis/Athena, here we come.

 

[Kipeci]

Not really, I made it clear from the beginning that my position in this is as follows: Dio is a pretty cool guy, but I'm willing to bend here and reach for Ean. Because this IC wankery to play Dio's logical character will just get the whole goddamn planet nuked, the Empire will never be put together and the Concordiat, with or without Tamur, will swarm us. I'm calling it right now, just like I called the transplants, the sword and the secession crisis.

And it's fine to sabotage Dio, but one does not do this by going directly to where he can do the most harm to your plan after he specifically declared that he would do the exact action most damaging to your plan based off of the slim hope that treave will throw in an easy way out. You might not want Dio to act in character, but he will in every way that is not up to our decisions; this is not helped when we specifically take the decisions that have him go to knock off Ean. Your justifications have been grasping nonsense about Dio seeking help from him and giving up power for unclear reasons just because you really wish that that would happen, and now you're just reduced to hoping that treave would give us that option when we've gotten to the point where Dio can finally kill him off.

You are setting yourself up for the perfect trolling.

Really, all we have to do is get to Iceland and we'll get a choice and I guarantee that Dio will get a justification.

Esquilax In light of the information that we can hold off the sword for a moment by securing a sufficiently usable excuse, would you mind flopping to, say, B? It could easily be said that securing support for a proper ship and perhaps that elite squad of troops would be best for landing on the island.

 

[Baltika9]

EsquilaxIt could easily be said that securing support for a proper ship and perhaps that elite squad of troops would be best for landing on the island.

Considering that Iceland has only one defender that we need to worry about, elite troops will be rather useless in the grand scheme of things. It will be the Guardian vs Dio and that's that.

Edit: Also,

You can still get him back even now.

That's from two pages ago. Before this chapter. Getting Ean back is doable.

 

[treave]

Considering that Iceland has only one defender that we need to worry about, elite troops will be rather useless in the grand scheme of things. It will be the Guardian vs Dio and that's that.

The sword doesn't know that, and "I need more time, let's not rush into things or you might miss your feast forever, meanwhile here's some nice juicy man for you" is a viable excuse for those of you who want to keep Dio away from Ean.

Edit: Also,

You can still get him back even now.

That's from two pages ago. Before this chapter. Getting Ean back is doable.

The 'you' was referring to the audience in general. Dio doesn't have to be the one who does the deed.

 

[Kipeci]

Considering that Iceland has only one defender that we need to worry about, elite troops will be rather useless in the grand scheme of things. It will be the Guardian vs Dio and that's that.

I don't actually care about that, the point is crafting a justification for our sword... which doesn't know about the guardian. We don't have many details, either, as seen by you guessing four different individuals.

That's from two pages ago. Before this chapter. Getting Ean back is doable.

I never said it wasn't, but somehow going with the idea that explicitly plans on killing him doesn't seem great to me on achieving that end.

 

[Baltika9]

We don't have many details, either, as seen by you guessing four different individuals.

To be fair, it's most likely Sek, which gives us many opportunities. But if it's any of our other BROs, which it probably is not, since Sek is the only one who really cares about Ean, we're in the clear as far as Ean goes.
Really, I'm pretty sure that if we don't seize this chance, we'll end up killing her, Ean or both in the future.

I don't actually care about that, the point is crafting a justification for our sword... which doesn't know about the guardian. We don't have many details, either, as seen by you guessing four different individuals.

Yeah, only we'll waste time and give someone else the opportunity to awaken Ean. Which will bring a shitton of problems on it's own.

The 'you' was referring to the audience in general. Dio doesn't have to be the one who does the deed.

Can't get a better hint than that, really.

I'll just pause for effect for now, I'm cluttering the space too much. The Kingdom of Jerusalem awaits!

 

[Kayerts]

I just marathoned this thread. It is rather good.

Seems like the main thing Dio should be worried about is the massively powerful sentient sword inside his chest; long-term career-planning can take a back seat.

There might be someone in Ankida who could help with bringing the sword more fully under Dio's control. (Ban did say that his mission to awaken it was given by imperial decree, so the imperial family at least knows something about Anbar'Shi.) On the other hand, seeking out information about the sword without it discovering our duplicity seems unfeasible. I don't see any other benefit to Dio in going to Ankida. Three of the kingdoms are in rebellion, a fourth faces a zombie invasion, and there are possible external threats on the horizons; these are all large problems, unlikely to be solved before the sword starts to get agitated.

I see two ways for this to end well for Dio. One, he could feed Ean to the sword as promised, hoping that it will willingly serve him after it feasts and becomes even more powerful (why?) or that he will be able to bring it under his control (how?). He then claims to be Ean reborn and proceeds to clean house; given that his powers in this eventuality will likely exceed Ean's at their height, this should be the easy part of that plan. Or two, he could try to awaken Ean and serve as his immortal right hand in his reconquest of the Empire. Once awake, Ean can probably take care of the sword for us.

Both of these point to going to Iceland. The best reason I can see to not go is if we're stalling until one of our hundred siblings can awaken Ean. If so inclined, they are probably more capable of doing that than the dude with the powerful Ean-eating sword in his chest. Still, C for now.

 

[Baltika9]

As a last note: I'm fine with both characters and whoever wins, I'll fight tooth and nail for their success. Which is why I am so adamant on going C and getting Ean back through flops and meta: if we switch to Dio, I'll start playing as Dio, which means Ean will become our rival and most likely nemesis (really, him and Dio are two sides of the same coin, they are natural rivals). And I don't want that.

 

[Kipeci]

To be fair, it's most likely Sek, which gives us many opportunities. But if it's any of our other BROs, which it probably is not, since Sek is the only one who really cares about Ean, we're in the clear as far as Ean goes.
Really, I'm pretty sure that if we don't seize this chance, we'll end up killing her, Ean or both in the future.

If she is the guardian, going there with the intention of killing Ean is more likely to kill her than any other option.

There might be someone in Ankida who could help with bringing the sword more fully under Dio's control. (Ban did say that his mission to awaken it was given by imperial decree, so the imperial family at least knows something about Anbar'Shi.) On the other hand, seeking out information about the sword without it discovering our duplicity seems unfeasible. I don't see any other benefit to Dio in going to Ankida. Three of the kingdoms are in rebellion, a fourth faces a zombie invasion, and there are possible external threats on the horizons; these are all large problems, unlikely to be solved before the sword starts to get agitated.

Dio doesn't care about the state of the empire; he cares about personal power. Currently, he has the opportunity to claim the power he craves through options A and B, or by choosing C to knock off Ean and secure power. Your second option is not going to happen; Dio will not settle for 'immortal right-hand man', he's making this trip specifically to kill Ean. Your first option seems liable to backfire, and given that its been explicitly stated that Dio can hold off on the trip while trying to bring the empire under him, why not?

 

[Kayerts]

Dio doesn't care about the state of the empire; he cares about personal power.

The two aren't entirely extricable. I don't think it's to Dio's benefit to start a civil war while the empire's already torn in half and menaced by external threats, unless he's looking to become God-Emperor of the three shacks set up around the ruins of Ankida.

Currently, he has the opportunity to claim the power he craves through options A and B, or by choosing C to knock off Ean and secure power. Your second option is not going to happen; Dio will not settle for 'immortal right-hand man', he's making this trip specifically to kill Ean. Your first option seems liable to backfire, and given that its been explicitly stated that Dio can hold off on the trip while trying to bring the empire under him, why not?

I'm thinking about Dio's endgame. He's going to have to deal with Ean's body in every eventuality. How does going to Ankida help him with that?

 

[Kipeci]

The two aren't entirely extricable. I don't think it's to Dio's benefit to start a civil war while the empire's already torn in half and menaced by external threats, unless he's looking to become God-Emperor of the three shacks set up around the ruins of Ankida.

The empire is weakened, yes, but it's in much better shape than that. At any rate, it's better to establish some power than to immediately head off to Iceland where the sword can potentially turn on him post Ean-devouring.

I'm thinking about Dio's endgame. He's going to have to deal with Ean's body in every eventuality. How does going to Ankida help him with that?

By establishing an actual base of power with soldiers and the like, accessing all the information it holds on Ean, the sword, all of that? Wandering blindly into bad situations hasn't been much of a boon to him thus far, and obviously the imperial family knows a lot of information that we don't. An idea of how to control the sword so that it won't kill him the second it devours Ean would be nice, as otherwise he enjoys nothing.

 

[Kayerts]

Soldiers seem unlikely to be useful. More information on how to control the sword would be very useful but seems difficult to gather. The sword can hear everything we say and hear, right? If we directly antagonize it by asking around about its powers and how it can be controlled, it'll realize our true intentions and start fighting against us.

My impression is that maintaining control over the sword will get harder over time, not easier. We also have 99 siblings, at least two of which (the madman or Dagrun, under Fenrir's guidance) know the location of Ean's body. If we waste time with vulgar displays of power in the capital, one of them may decide that the best way to deal with the empowered Dio is to awaken or consume Ean themselves. Also, treave has hinted that this will happen.

 

[oscar]

My two cents is that it could do the Empire some good to retreat back to its initial size (Eastern Mediterranean). A: Dio for Emperor!

B: Rule from the shadows