[LP CYOA] Spiral

[Nevill]

Alright, I'll try to put my thoughts in order.

1) The identity of the patient and the woman in the vision. Is the appearance of the note related to them?

Who knows, maybe was our transition as Seiji from the real world to this one, maybe a message from Fox Guy.

I have a feeling the vision refers strictly to Ikei, which limits the timeline to the last 4 years.

We know from Uehara's backstory that our body still exists in the real world. Considering that we have found a note with our name, and that it was a VIP ward, I assume that's where the body was kept if Seiji the 2nd met his demise as he predicted it to Sawada.

The girl in high heels couldn't be Maeda, Seika or Uehara. The last time we followed a pair of high heels, we found Kayano. Perhaps the vision was hinting at her role in creating Seiji the 3rd?

I wonder if our mother is still alive. Mori suspected Madoka in the disappearances, so she must have been in 2012. Could very well be her, too, in which case it ties in with the next question.

2) The identity of Sakimura's friend and the identity of our parents.

We shoul ask Sakimura, I doubt we can collect information on that, it's doubtful too that could be useful.
We are Seiji, Juuzo is our father, maybe he married a Gaijin, is really relevant?

Doubt Sakimura would answer any of our questions now. I am afraid this lead is a bit of a dead end.

The identity of our parents might be important since it was mentioned on two different occasions that we could be a half. The story also features European companies, German gold, and Western occultism. I find it very unlikely that our ancestry is unrelated to what is happening.

I assume Shinohara Madoka to be our mother. That only leaves her mother or her husband as a source of gaijin blood in our veins. I think I mentioned how strange it was that we've never heard of our father. I imagine we will, yet.

 

[Kz3r0]

The identity of our parents might be important since it was mentioned on two different occasions that we could be a half. The story also features European companies, German gold, and Western occultism. I find it very unlikely that our ancestry is unrelated to what is happening.

In an unexpected twist of events turns out that we are descendants of the Baron and Juuzo adopted us, will explain the ease with which shoot his own son.
Hmm, this will explain why Yukina used -sama shortly after encountering us, matbe we resemble the Baron in some way and she unconsciounsly addressed us as she was used to do when she frequented the mansion.

 

[Nevill]

Juuzo is our grandfather, not father.

Hm, it was mentioned that Juuzo was left without a heir when Seiji died, yet we suspect Madoka to be alive. Why couldn't his daughter succeed him?

I can only assume that her husband is dead or otherwise unavailable, and that Ushiromiyas Shinoharas don't accept women as heirs.

In an unexpected twist of events turns out that we are descendants of the Baron and Juuzo adopted us,

The thought that we were adopted crossed my mind, yes. But the Juunimon business places a lot of importance on blood ties, and seeing how a certain family were the ones who crafted jinki and how we ended up here, I thought Seiji was of Shinohara's descent.

Didn't you speculate that Shinoharas, Maedas and Tendous are all necessary for the ritual? Shinoseki Adachi is not a Shinohara, yet he has Shinohara's blood and that's how we tie in the puzzle. It would not be the case if we were adopted.

 

[Kz3r0]

In an unexpected twist of events turns out that we are descendants of the Baron and Juuzo adopted us,

The thought that we were adopted crossed my mind, yes. But the Juunimon business places a lot of importance on blood ties, and seeing how a certain family were the ones who crafted jinki and how we ended up here, I thought Seiji was of Shinohara's descent.

Didn't you speculate that Shinoharas, Maedas and Tendous are all necessary for the ritual? Shinoseki Adachi is not a Shinohara, yet he has Shinohara's blood and that's how we tie in the puzzle. It would not be the case if we were adopted.

Yet the Baron attempted the ritual without being from one of the three families, considering how things have gone out of hand in the last one hundred years this would explain a lot.

 

[Nevill]

Yet the Baron attempted the ritual without being from one of the three families, considering how thing have gone out of hand in the last one hundred years this would explain a lot.

He had Tendou and Maeda right there with him, though. I suspect a relative of Shinoharas might have been involved as well.

 

[Kz3r0]

He had Tendou and Maeda right there with him, though. I suspect a relative of Shinoharas might have been involved as well.

Maybe things are simpler that we think, Mina, the surviving twin of the Baron's daughters got married to a Shinohara, if we are one of her descendants we are not only a Shinohara but also have blood ties to the Tendou and Sakaguchi families.

 

[treave]

Yet the Baron attempted the ritual without being from one of the three families, considering how things have gone out of hand in the last one hundred years this would explain a lot.

Well, it could depend on which ritual he was trying to perform.

 

[Nevill]

3) The labeling of the floors.

If this is asimulation maybe they added an additional layer for security reasons, maybe Tokigawa tried to 'conceal' a floor when drawing the map for some reason.

Well, he got everything else correctly. He said that VIP wards start from the third floor (the one we woke up in), that the walkways are located on the fourth and fifth floors (in normal numeration). Everything he told us we've seen with our own eyes, so when he said that the sixth floor is supposed to be the last one I see no reason to doubt him. It's not like he could hope to conceal it by making such an obvious contradiction.

The last, 7th floor is an anomaly. At first I thought it was a remnant from the Kaimei hospital, but now, having seen the actual Kaimei, I am in doubt.

The numbering of the floors according to the European tradition is perhaps an evidence of IAE involvement and should have served as the first clue that we are in an 'augmented' reality. But what is the last floor for? Was its existence even intended or predicted by Juuzo who had reconstructed Ikei?

There were 2 events involving it, and both happened in the surgical ward:

The assault on us during the Second Night

The sixth floor is as deserted as the rest of the hospital – somehow, it does not surprise you. The things that you need can most likely be found in a surgical ward or some similar room. Luckily enough, it does not take you long to find one.

The room has multiple trolleys and medical equipment. As you walk into the room, you notice something odd lying half-hidden behind a blue privacy screen. It’s a black object… a plastic bag? No, it’s a rather large garbage bag. You frown. It feels rather strange for hospital staff to leave a bag like that lying around. Wouldn’t it be considered unhygienic? Still, the bag is none of your concern. Turning towards the metal trolleys, you open the drawers with a softly muttered apology to the hospital for, well, stealing their instruments.

[...]

You hold up your new pick to the harsh fluorescent lights. A small sense of self-satisfaction passes over you, but it is quickly interrupted by the small, rustling noise of plastic.

The… garbage?

The lights blink. You whip around to face the source of the noise, and see a pale white hand reaching out for you. Startled, you fall back with a shriek of fear, your arms raised instinctively to ward off whatever it is that is coming for you. The unpleasant surprise causes you to lose your balance and snag yourself on the trolleys. You fall, bringing down the trolleys and the medical equipment mounted on them with a loud crash.

It takes a few seconds of you looking around wildly to realize that nothing else is going to happen. In fact, there is no garbage bag at all. You shake your head in confusion. Did you hallucinate it all? You get up hurriedly and leave the room while checking yourself for injury. You appear to be perfectly fine, except for a small, dark bruise on your forearm that you must have gotten when you fell.

As you walk down the empty hallways, however, you can’t help but feel as if there is an extra footstep shadowing yours.

Uehara's death on the First Night

Sighing, you look to the side, glancing at the garbage bag in the corner. The black plastic stands out against the white tiles, white walls, and white ceiling of the room. Where other parts of the hospital had been strangely neat and tidy in the wake of everyone’s disappearance, here things are less ordered. The metal trolleys have been up-ended, leaving expensive medical equipment scattered ignominiously all over the floor. It looks like someone has gone on a rampage in here. The harsh, bright lights flicker and cycle, dimming and brightening over and over as a grating electrical hum pulsates deep into your ears. It digs in. And in. The sound irritates your mind so very much. You scratch at your temples.

[...]

Again there is a gap in your memories… an impenetrable wall that you are unable to surpass.

[...]

Your gaze hovers over the garbage bag that had been lying there. It is tied up and knotted with a blood-stained string. As you look at it, you gradually realize that the bag is moving slightly. The shiny black plastic rises and falls in a gentle pattern. The material appears to be expanding and contracting almost like a breathing, living being. Then, you notice the liquid pooling underneath the bag. At first glance it looks to be as black as the plastic itself, but beneath the slow cyclic strobing of the lights you catch a glint of a dark, deep crimson. It flows viscously, seeping into the lines between the tiles. Travelling along the channels, the liquid slowly creeps towards you bit by bit.

The garbage bag jerks visibly. The air seems to be getting thicker and heavier, weighing you down. Your limbs are rooted to the spot – try as you may, they refuse to obey you. Your breathing becomes shallow and fast, the pounding of your heart loud enough that you can feel the blood rushing through your neck.

Beneath the clean, white walls, a weathered, pale green surface begins to bleed through. The bright room before you ebbs away gradually as the lights flicker and begin going dark.

[...]

“Let me go, old man! He killed Uehara! Probably Amanozaki too! I’m going to butcher him!”

“That is not certain yet. From the looks of this place, there was a struggle before she was killed. Look at all the upturned trolleys and equipment, and the blood spatter across the walls. The one who killed Uehara would have a lot of blood on them, yet Shinoseki’s clothes were clean when we saw him.”

The circumstances of the attacks look extremely similar. It is almost as if we upturned the trolley on the second night and then walked back in on the first... except that's impossible.

A pale white hand looks a lot like the witch's idea of a joke. No harm came to us because of it, and there was no follow up. Though looking at Uehara makes me wonder if it was all that harmless.

And what is this weathered, pale green surface we saw behind the plastic walls? Is it Kaimei after all?

4) The doubling of notes down to the way they were cut. How is this possible?

A glitch in the Matrix, Fox Guy sending a message, a remnant of the previous night, we know that the ones we experienced/remember are not the only ones.

Hidetaka mentioned that the notes he copied were left here by others before him, and we constantly encounter comments on those that weren't left by the ones who wrote them. Are the notes persistent? If we make a mark on one of these letters, will our successors notice it?

We know for sure the notes exist in the real world because of Sakaki. The only explanations I can find are:
1) The hospital absorbed Sakaki's notes and made them its own. What we find is their 'digital' copies.
2) Sakaki owes a notebook that is comprised of the notes that were carried out of the 'bubble'. If Tokigawa could hope to find gold here, then why would it be impossible to do the same with information?

The important implication is - if these things could be doubled, what else can? Can the same happen with people?

That ending with Maeda and our hand is bothering me. What happened to our bodies from an external observer's point of view? Or is the lack of external observer and the uncertainty of our fate the whole point?

 

[Kz3r0]

. But what is the last floor for? Was its existence even intended or predicted by Juuzo who had reconstructed Ikei?

Taketatsu used Seiji's alghoritms to go past the stumbling blocks in the developement of the simulation, maybe is Seiji's doing.

The circumstances of the attacks look extremely similar. It is almost as if we upturned the trolley on the second night and then walked back in on the first... except that's impossible.

Here a bizzarre idea, we know that our psyche was fragmented, what if the various nights are not in the order they happened but in the order we remember them, is treave pulling a Memento on us?
Meta considerations, in my musings about CYOA LPs I entertenained the idea of interactive flashbacks that would shape the developement of the character and the story, shuffling them around never occurred to me, mad props to treave if he really did that.

Are the notes persistent? If we make a mark on one of these letters, will our successors notice it?

Continuing with the Memento/Torment comparison maybe they are Seiji's breadcrumbs trail to find his way, he knew that he would be possessed and amnesiac, maybe this is the doing of the alghoritms he provided to Taketatsu.

That ending with Maeda and our hand is bothering me. What happened to our bodies from an external observer's point of view?

By what we know our bodies are lying on the floor of Ikei.

Or is the lack of external observer and the uncertainty of our fate the whole point?

It seems to me that has been eavily implied that this is the case.

 

[treave]

Here a bizzarre idea, we know that our psyche was fragmented, what if the various nights are not in the order they happened but in the order we remember them, is treave pulling a Memento on us?

All I'll say is that the First Night is not the first night.

 

[treave]

Dinnertime

“Oh, sure, go with her if you want. What you do is really none of my business anyway,” With a haughty puff, Maeda folds her arms together. “I’ll go investigate the mansion myself.”

“Nami-san,” Yukina calls out as Maeda turns to leave. “I’ll have Shinoseki-san back at my house for dinner, so you can drop by afterwards.”

“Why would I want to do that?” says Maeda defensively.

“Oh… I thought that since the both of you seem to know each other from before, you would want to catch up on things,” smiles Yukina politely. “I will set aside some dinner for you.”

“W-Well, I’ll think about it. Maybe I will, maybe I won’t. See you around, then.” Yukina’s offer seems to have caught her off guard.

As Maeda stomps off, apparently in a bad mood, you feel obliged to apologize on her behalf. “I’m sorry, Maeda-san. She’s… not a bad person, just a bit blunt.”

“Oh, it is fine, Shinoseki-sama. I understand,” giggles Yukina demurely. “Well, shall we be off? The shopkeeper has preserved the ingredients on my behalf, but I would still like to collect them in time for dinner”

“It’s so hard to get a flower in each hand, isn’t it?” quips Ei. She appears to be enjoying the situation. “Well, if I were in your situation, I’d definitely prefer to have a nice dinner with a good, domestic lady over sneaking about some spooky mansion with an arrogant, hotheaded girl. You made the right choice.”

You look at Maeda’s figure receding into the distance, the colour of her clothes warmed by the setting sun, and a thought strikes your mind.

***

A. You ask Ei to follow Maeda to the mansion. Just in case.

B. You keep Ei around with you. Just in case.

***

The meal is every bit as satisfying as you had hoped it would be. The moment you gulped down that first bowl of piping hot fish broth, you had felt a void in you filled up; a hungry void that you had never noticed. The grilled fish was good. The savory soup was good. The boiled vegetables were good. The steamy white rice was good. The sake was good. It was all good. You ate and drank quickly, and plentifully. As you place the last empty bowl back on the table, you lean back, feeling more than a little bloated. You offer the host your polite appreciation, “Thank you for the meal, Maeda-san. It was great.”

Yukina laughs, delighted that you have enjoyed her cooking. “Truly, you are too kind. The way you were wolfing down the food, you must not have eaten in ages, Shinoseki-sama. Any cooking, even dishes as mediocre as mine, would seem to be a lavish feast.”

There it is again: you notice that she has reverted to addressing you with a more respectful honorific. Something about it feels strange to you. Was there anything that would trigger the change? Asking her directly would be the quickest way to find out, but you feel too embarrassed to do so, and it seems too trivial a matter to bear thinking about. A gentle pattering begins above you. It has started raining. You cannot recall any dark clouds earlier in the day, but you suppose bad weather has a way of sneaking up at times.

“By the way, Shinoseki-sama,” Yukina folds her hands over her lap, looking at you seriously. “Forgive me for this impertinence, but may I ask you a personal question?”

You nod nervously, a reflexive move in response to her earnest look. “Uh… sure, I guess?”

“What is your business here? I know it is rude for me to ask such a question, but I cannot believe that you are here merely out of curiosity about the Sakaguchis. From your bearing and looks, you are a man of high status, and to appear naked in our village, without any escorts, is doubly suspicious. The elder did not ask too many questions at the time and gladly answered your questions, but I am sure that by now, he would have informed the other families in the village of your presence and your motive.” Yukina looks aside apologetically, and adds, “At least, what he believes to be your motive. I am not sure what that is, so far, but perhaps you can help me… help us… understand why you are here. I am certain that we would be able to help you better then.”

***

A. You tell her everything. About the future, about the dead, about the Ikei and Kaimei hospitals, and about how she is merely a fake created as your trial.

B. You claim to be a time traveller from the future, who has somehow returned to this era, and you believe it has happened in order to discover the truth behind the hauntings of your time.

C. You pretend to be a travelling scholar from Tokyo who has run afoul of bandits, and that your interest is in Baron Sakaguchi’s turbulent, occult-related end. You pass off your strangeness as being from the city.

D. Apologetically, you refuse to tell her anything beyond what you have already said.

 

[treave]

The cover story, if you choose to give one, is up for modification.

 

[Baltika9]

B
E- we are a male prostitute from Tokyo on a journey to refine our technique. We pass our strangeness off as being from the city.

 

[Kz3r0]

A.
F>C.

 

[Kz3r0]

F
The guardian spirit of the Juunimon Tree sent us here to undo the evil done by Baron Sakaguchi, unfortunately we fear to not be up to the task, many things are unknown to us and our mind has been clouded by the malice unleashed by the Baron.

 

[oscar]

G - "To be honest I am not completely certain myself but you are correct that this is something highly unusual"

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

A
B - we don't know for sure that she is a fake. She could be a ghost - if that is the case, then telling her she isn't really alive like she thinks she is would be bad. Very bad.

 

[Grimgravy]

A
B

 

[Nevill]

All I'll say is that the First Night is not the first night.

I suspected it, but refused the thought based on Uehara's behavior. She was like a curious puppy who've met us for the first time, eager to know us better. A far cry from the apathy of the third night, and not even her being a good actress could explain it to me. Her conflict with Amanozaki was also unusually fresh and furious. One would think that quipping with a fraud would lose its perks after the first two times, as it clearly did.

If it wasn't the first night, it was close enough to the supposedly chronological beginning for it not to matter much.

Meta considerations, in my musings about CYOA LPs I entertenained the idea of interactive flashbacks that would shape the developement of the character and the story, shuffling them around never occurred to me, mad props to treave if he really did that.

We can determine they are in a 'chronological' order because of Uehara. Also, the messages on the phone were reactive to our previous experience.

Continuing with the Memento/Torment comparison maybe they are Seiji's breadcrumbs trail to find his way, he knew that he would be possessed and amnesiac, maybe this is the doing of the alghoritms he provided to Taketatsu.

It is possible, but I still attribute them to Seika and perhaps the Fox Guy, if he didn't only show up in 'a place that never existed'.

In the first night, we ourselves stipulated - through Descartes - that if this trap is a work of a demon, we should seek help from a force of good to achieve salvation. If Seiji is a demon, I have no one else to assign to be a force for good but those two.

I have predicted the existence of this force back in the third chapter when I didn't even know who Seika was. It was just obvious that something or someone wanted to help us. It is also why I trust the Fox Guy.

Back to the choices at hand. I think we need to send Ei back with Maeda. The elder referred to her as a stranger and we know the village does not like strangers. More than that, they are suspicious of our motives and the Elder spoke in jest about some government scheme. Whatever is brewing behind our backs, it is not good.

Granted, Ei is as likely to cause trouble as she is to assist, and she enjoys seeing us squirm, but I got the feeling that she genuinely wants what is good for us, and that she would help keep Maeda safe.

Kz3r0's take on our cover story is surprisingly alike to what I wanted it to be. In a way, I find it not too far from the truth. We are an envoy from the guardian spirit sent to right the wrongs that can yet be righted. We have lost our memory, and we have to discover the truth anew in order to fix the harm that has been done to the land and to its people.

She is in part Tendou, in part a diviner. She also lost her mother to this place. She should understand this better than anyone. It isn't any less believable than time travel, and definitely much easier for her to relate to, while the underlying message stays the same. In any case, I think we should not lie to her, though we can't reveal the full truth either for obvious reasons.

1A 2F>B

 

[Kz3r0]

We can determine they are in a 'chronological' order because of Uehara. Also, the messages on the phone were reactive to our previous experience.

Probably you are right, still I like the idea.

It is possible, but I still attribute them to Seika

Probably is Seika, after all as both the Observer in the Simulation and the Maiden in the Ritual she has the means to influence the environment.

 

[Nevill]

It isn't any less believable than time travel, and definitely much easier for her to relate to, while the underlying message stays the same.

On the other hand, we might end up committing heresy blasphemy.

Hm, I have a better idea.

H. [Liam Nii-san > 3] You claim to be a time traveller from the future and that you need her clothes, her boots and her motorcycle in order to kill Maeda Keiji's potential mother before he is born.

I am sure she'll undertand. Any takers?

 

[Baltika9]

Cut scene to us riding off on a lame, sickly old mare in a tattered dress and dirty slippers.

 

[treave]

I was fully intending on having Shinoseki lamely quote Terminator with B.

 

[Nevill]

Cut scene to us riding off on a lame, sickly old mare in a tattered dress and dirty slippers.

Think of how more badass it will make us look if we still manage to pull it off!

Protecting other people is a goal that is done because it is right, not because he is shown to particularly like or care for those he saves beyond a superficial level. Ditto for his self-sacrificing complex.

I've been meaning to ask this. Where and how Shinoseki got his ideas of what is right and what is wrong? Why did he get into his head that a sacrifice is a right thing to do, but only for some people and not others?

I am kinda bothered by his noncommittal attitude towards what he is supposed to be doing - whatever that is - and the ease with which he let go of Maeda with nary a word. Again, it was Yukina who had to interfere on our behalf and tell her that we wanted to talk to her.

Set your goals straight already, young man!

I was fully intending on having Shinoseki lamely quote Terminator with B.

Ah, but will we tell her 'Plane Tickets, bitch!' or that we came through time for her and that she should come with us if she wants to live? That's important.

 

[treave]

I've been meaning to ask this. Where and how Shinoseki got his ideas of what is right and what is wrong? Why did he get into his head that a sacrifice is a right thing to do, but only for some people and not others?

He's not exactly a blank slate of a baby that has zero knowledge. Society determines that helping people is good, and that helping people to the extent that you sacrifice yourself is the noblest good of all, as impressed by multiple stories and myths over and over again. Then, from a more meta perspective, when you pick those sort of choices, over and over again, you're only reinforcing this message.

I am kinda bothered by his noncommittal attitude towards what he is supposed to be doing - whatever that is - and the ease with which he let go of Maeda with nary a word. Again, it was Yukina who had to interfere on our behalf and tell her that we wanted to talk to her.

He's just shy.