In Progress [LP CYOA] Tower

[ItsChon]

For example... why do you flop votes away from C when it and B both have 5 votes? There is an equal chance Kalarion, baud and Tigranes flop to C, making it win.
Show Spoiler Kalarion - B > C
baud - B > C > A
Tigranes - B > E > C
It's between A, B and C in equal measure, and you don't flop contenders that have a chance of winning.

So the way I did it was I flop all voters that are unaffiliated with C's competitors (So D, and E, but not B and A because A is winning and B is tied). No one that voted for either D or E placed a conditional to C, so they don't get any from there. Then, I did the same thing for B. The difference is that B did have a conditional flop from one of its non competitors (again, D or E votes only) from CappenVarra, this puts B at 6 votes and C at 5 votes. From there, B is beating C, so I took the conditional votes that were C > B and flopped them over to B. If the situation was reversed, then C would have got all the conditional votes you spoilered above. If there was no D or E vote to break the tie between C and B, then I wouldn't count their conditionals as both have an equal chance of winning, and the vote wold be sitting at 5 and 5 with A winning by however much it is right now.

The system makes sense and it's completely objective and fair, it's just hard to follow sometimes. I checked all the votes though and everything is correct, conditionals included. Feel free to double check if you wish. 18 people voted this cycle, there are 36 votes in the first category (divide by two since everyone had two options which gives you 18), 18 votes in the second category, and 17 votes in the third because Absinthe said he's fine with everything that's not E, so he does not have a vote.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I would agree with Kz3r0's opinion on conditionals. A single conditional with a secondary preference is fine, three or four is just a mark of lazy people unable to make up their mind.

I disagree. It shows a clear order of preference for people who don't want to keep checking the thread to see if their option is losing.

That said, I understand the voting confusion about flopping.

 

[Azira]

Didn't you see our grandma dropkick a cannibalistic monster?

Yep. She did that while she was all hopped up on channelling her god through her powerful astra.

You convinced me to change my vote. I'll remove all conditionals on the skill. I only want the astra usage.

I also flopped on the question we want to ask her. I want to know more about her specifically.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I only want the astra usage.

Which at present will make us better with our map book...

Tbh, I understand why people would want to be a better astra user, and if we had an astra that could be used more effectively, I would agree. However, unless the tome of Theseus, which is apparently a very common item, has some hidden secret powers, I don't see it as being much of an advantage right now.

Since we're young and we have a lot of time to learn and train, I would rather pick skills that have a better chance of keeping us alive longer right now than something that may be useful down the line once we actually find something that can be used either offensively or defensively.

 

[ItsChon]

Yep. She did that while she was all hopped up on channelling her god through her powerful astra.

You convinced me to change my vote. I'll remove all conditionals on the skill. I only want the astra usage.

I also flopped on the question we want to ask her. I want to know more about her specifically.

Wait what are you flopping too? Can you lmk so I can make sure the votes are good?

 

[Azira]

Yep. She did that while she was all hopped up on channelling her god through her powerful astra.

You convinced me to change my vote. I'll remove all conditionals on the skill. I only want the astra usage.

I also flopped on the question we want to ask her. I want to know more about her specifically.

Wait what are you flopping too? Can you lmk so I can make sure the votes are good?

Here.
I flopped to straight C on the skill thing. No conditionals. And switched A and D around in what we ask Tlalli.

 

[ItsChon]

I updated the list to reflect Azira's flop. B is now in the lead, with the standings being listed below.

A. Melee and unarmed combat - 6

B. Ranged combat - 5 (7)

C. Astra usage - 5 (4)

This has been quite a riveting voting period, lots of flops and twists and turns.

 

[oscar]

III
IV

E > A - Our dexterity is no better than our strength now anyway. This is also two skill boosts (melee AND unarmed) for the price of one
C - The rest are pretty self-explanatory. If John's going to live up to his promise to meet us again some advice would be helpful

 

[ItsChon]

God damn it, updated. With the edition of Oscar's vote, A and B are now tied tied.

 

[Absinthe]

2A is easily the way to go. For a guy without any melee skill, we sure do end up in melee a lot, which is a pretty fucking good sign we should get some melee skill, and we just happen to have one of the best experts at melee willing to teach us. Unarmed is also a rare skill to acquire in the tower and we get it for free while training our melee skill.

 

[Azira]

We also end up facing off against pretty damn powerful astra users all the time. Maybe understanding astras better would be "pretty fucking" helpful as well.

 

[Nevill]

The system makes sense and it's completely objective and fair, it's just hard to follow sometimes.

It's the incremental method I objected to before. Let's take the current vote at this point in time.

Spoiler

Kz3ro - A
Lambchop19 - A
Esquilax - A > B
Baktika9 - A > B
Absinthe - A > C
hello friend - A > E > C
Extra_Vote - A

Nevill - B
ItsChon - B
baud - B > C > A
Tigranes - B > E > C
Kalarion - B > C

Egosphere - C
Azira - C
Kipeci - C
Orbit - C > E
Asxetos - C > B

CappenVarra - D > B > E > C > A

Grimgravy - E
Oscar - E > A

...and add an Extra_Vote for A to it.

Your resolution method would eliminate C, and lead to an A vs B contest, with A winning by 1 vote (since they are tied without an extra vote).

However, C has a lot more votes for it in secondary preferences, and it wins handily against A.

Spoiler

Kz3ro - A
Lambchop19 - A
Esquilax - A > B
Baktika9 - A > B
Absinthe - A > C
hello friend - A > E > C
Oscar - E > A
Extra_Vote - A

Egosphere - C
Azira - C
Kipeci - C
Orbit - C > E
Asxetos - C > B
baud - B > C > A
Tigranes - B > E > C
Kalarion - B > C
CappenVarra - D > B > E > C > A

Your method doesn't account for that.

 

[Absinthe]

We also end up facing off against pretty damn powerful astra users all the time. Maybe understanding astras better would be "pretty fucking" helpful as well.

By all means, feel free to explain how you believe our book astra will be used in combat. I mean, maybe it missed your notice, but we don't exactly have a combat astra, so no, astra skill isn't helpful in a fight. It will be later, but not now, probably not soon either. And so long as we get the book on astras we can develop astra skill anyway. But we won't always have Tlalli's tutelage to give us multiple melee skills while we engage in so much melee. So picking up melee is just the best option.

Serious question: Do you really believe we are never going to enter melee combat again? Because if so, skipping melee skills makes sense. But if not, then we should get these melee skills now while we have such a good opportunity.

 

[Orbit]

2A is easily the way to go. For a guy without any melee skill, we sure do end up in melee a lot, which is a pretty fucking good sign we should get some melee skill, and we just happen to have one of the best experts at melee willing to teach us. Unarmed is also a rare skill to acquire in the tower and we get it for free while training our melee skill.

We end up in melee because this is the prologue and we have zero equipment and zero preparation and our options are limited to running away like a little bitch or wrestling with tentacle monsters. I'm pretty sure we aren't going to be limited that way for the rest of the CYOA.

By your logic we should also max out our charisma because we keep on talking to others instead of murdering them with our sling.

By all means, feel free to explain how you believe our book astra will be used in combat. I mean, maybe it missed your notice, but we don't exactly have a combat astra, so no, astra skill isn't helpful in a fight. It will be later, but not now, probably not soon either.

Astra usage will obviously only be useful if we acually invest in it. If we always relegate it to 2nd place in favour of whatever shiny new thing is dangling before us we may as well not bother with it.

treave: How does the bonding to astras actually work? Do we need to perform some rituals for the more powerful astras or de we just need to take the objects that contain them with us. Can we transfer multiple astras to a single object or to ourselves somehow? Can users unbond astras, like if we wanted to trade for Liz boots? Does the original user have to die or somehow be distanced from the astra? Can astras be destroyed or created? Can existing astras be upgraded and more powerful abilities unlocked?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

A - Our dexterity is no better than our strength now anyway. This is also two skill boosts (melee AND unarmed) for the price of one

That's...actually a really great point that I hadn't thought of.

Spoiler

Note that I'm not trying to change your vote from E>A, just trying to quote what you were talking about.

 

[Azira]

Having a magical map that lets us glean otherwise hidden information about our surroundings can be a great help in combat. Also, it is water/mutability type. Perfectly aligned with our sign. The mutability thing might mean it doesn't stay a book.
First thing in battle is control of the battlefield. That is how the book astra can help in combat.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Having a magical map that lets us glean otherwise hidden information about our surroundings can be a great help in combat.

So...you want our character to look at a book in combat?

We already have the ability to map out our surroundings. We've used it in combat (before combat). We have the advantage you speak of now.

And I'll note that it didn't do us much good against the things in that cave, or against the lizards, or with John Bull - not that anything would have helped in the last case.

Also, it is water/mutability type. Perfectly aligned with our sign. The mutability thing might mean it doesn't stay a book.
First thing in battle is control of the battlefield. That is how the book astra can help in combat.

Optimistic. As I said, we already know that it's a common item with known properties.

While I guess that it's possible these books have some unknown ability, I think it's more likely that the mutability aspect just refers to its ability to change its pages to show your surroundings.

Look, I understand that you want us to be better at astras. I do too. But I'm prioritizing the immediate benefits of a gain to both our melee and unarmed skills, along with the possibility to learn some rare tricks from a master.

I would love for Tlalli to show us some rare trick for astras too, but it just doesn't seem like it will do us much good at the moment.

edit: Azira, to show you that I'm not dismissing your choice offhand, I'm adding C as a conditional. ItsChon, Nevill, to be used in case A loses.

 

[Baltika9]

Remember how physical training would have given us insight into our condition with the leg? I wonder if the same thing will happen if Tlalli will train us in physical combat, with her noticing our condition. This is speculation, by the way, not a sure thing.

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Lambchop19.


As an aside: it's pretty convenient that the Tower provides readily made Astras that correspond to the beliefs of the inhabitants. What if *hits blunt* the Tower itself is one huge Astra that makes real the imagination of it's inhabitants?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

B
A
X

 

[Orbit]

Remember how physical training would have given us insight into our condition with the leg? I wonder if the same thing will happen if Tlalli will train us in physical combat, with her noticing our condition. This is speculation, by the way, not a sure thing.

Sounds a little bit too good to be true, honestly. And I just don't think spreading our skills like that is going to help us against enemies like Alexei, which can completely negate mediocre melee skills. And then there's the thing that even Tlallis superior melee skills could not prevent the Bull from just walking away.

So being able to evaluate what astras our enemies have and when and how they try to use it is as well as how to counter it is really important. And IMHO specializing Wrinkly in astra usage, traps, ranged and maybe a bit of alchemy seems like a well-rounded build with lots of useful options to tackle any kind problem, be it Alexei, Bull, creepy cave dwellers or whatever.

Melee is for plebs like Andrew who are too dumb to protect harem.

 

[Nevill]

And IMHO specializing Wrinkly in astra usage, traps, ranged and maybe a bit of alchemy

Sign me up for that.

Also, changing the last part of my vote to 3D.

 

[Absinthe]

We end up in melee because this is the prologue and we have zero equipment and zero preparation and our options are limited to running away like a little bitch or wrestling with tentacle monsters. I'm pretty sure we aren't going to be limited that way for the rest of the CYOA.

So you're claiming that melee fights are a prologue-only thing (we're in chapter 1 now, btw, not prologue) and in the future our character will never get dragged into melee combat again? Because I'm pretty sure there will be more melee fights in the future, whether we want to or not. So making use of a good opportunity to develop two melee skills is just a good idea in my book.

By your logic we should also max out our charisma because we keep on talking to others instead of murdering them with our sling.

You're new to the CYOA and you're already engaging in Codexian maximalism? Look, I don't subscribe to all-or-nothing thinking here. So let's reverse your argument. Are you suggesting that if our character keeps talking to others, it would be a poor plan of action to develop a single rank of speech skills?

Astra usage will obviously only be useful if we actually invest in it. If we always relegate it to 2nd place in favour of whatever shiny new thing is dangling before us we may as well not bother with it.

1. No, astra usage will obviously be more useful with more/better astras.
2. Again, stop with the all-or-nothing logic. Just because we're skipping astra skill now doesn't mean we're going to skip it every time, or even most times. It's just that right now the vote for melee skills is more rewarding than the vote for astra skill. We get 2 skills instead instead of one, Tlalli is an expert at melee combat, and we're going to end up in more melee fights anyway, so we should make use of the opportunity. We're still going to get astra skills later. That was never in doubt. Why do you think we're getting the book on astras?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Melee is for plebs like Andrew who are too dumb to protect harem.

*Laughs in ManTigerPig*

 

[Baltika9]

And IMHO specializing Wrinkly in astra usage, traps, ranged and maybe a bit of alchemy seems like a well-rounded build with lots of useful options to tackle any kind problem, be it Alexei, Bull, creepy cave dwellers or whatever.

And like I said earlier, I see no need to restrict ourselves to just ranged combat, when we can go for a John Wick fighting style, where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And we already have the physical and mental fortitude of an action hero, so yeah, it's attainable with proper focus.

In other words, I want to specialize Wrinkly in combat, astras and ranging skills (alchemy and traps).

Also, like I and many others have said, Tlalli is one of the rare masters of unarmed and melee fighting in the Tower. Let's learn her best stuff from her.

And I just don't think spreading our skills like that is going to help us against enemies like Alexei, which can completely negate mediocre melee skills.

It's a good thing that we're not going to 1v1 Alexei any time soon, then, from any range. I'm sure that he can spank our little arse raw with his chains at our current level, having Google Maps won't make it harder for him. And that's exactly everything that we can assume our Astra is right now, nothing else.

Sounds a little bit too good to be true, honestly.

Like I said, speculation, albeit not baseless.

Absinthe, ERYFKRAD, are you bros open to a 3D vote? I think it would be wise (not to mention nice) to get to know our teacher, benefactor and (hopefully) grandmother.

 

[Absinthe]

Yeah sure. I was already contemplating a flop anyway. 3D>Anything other than E.

Treave, can we ask Tlalli for advice on our injured leg?