Indie Lurking - Inspired by Ultima 3 (released)

[V_K]

The overworld map is 300 x 300 tiles divided into two continents (the East where you begin, and the West).

Wow, didn't think it was that big. Thumbs up!

 

[oklabsoft]

Thanks! BTW, in addition to spelling stuff wrong... apparently I have trouble with East and West. So that no one is confused... you actually start on the WEST continent.

 

[oklabsoft]

So, I started a new game, and I really dislike the soundtrack. It sounds so artificial like out of a mario game. Does it get better as the game progresses?

Here is a link for a MOD package. It contains an alternate .exe that plays MP3 rather than .MIDI as well as a new 'MUSIC' folder with MP3 music for the game. The files need to be in the right directory positions in your full game download. I would just rename the old MUSIC folder (in case you want to switch back to MIDI) before copying in the MP3 MUSIC folder. Hope that helps.

https://goo.gl/J2mLZk

Also - you can really use any MP3 you want as long as it is renamed as one of the music files in the folder and it will play in the game at the appropriate points.

 

[oklabsoft]

bumping this thread because it represents pure anti-cancer.

also don't be too quick to throw the name "okalbsoft" away, that might be a gift from the gods... Shimano --> Shamino, eh? like you could just ram the typo all the way to "Okalbfots" and presto, that's your wizard name.

But serious, it's always good to see someone lighting a candle rather than cursing the darkness. I've been looking for a turn-based follow up to Fallout 1.5, might as well try this game next.

 

[Epsilon]

So, I started a new game, and I really dislike the soundtrack. It sounds so artificial like out of a mario game. Does it get better as the game progresses?

Here is a link for a MOD package. It contains an alternate .exe that plays MP3 rather than .MIDI as well as a new 'MUSIC' folder with MP3 music for the game. The files need to be in the right directory positions in your full game download. I would just rename the old MUSIC folder (in case you want to switch back to MIDI) before copying in the MP3 MUSIC folder. Hope that helps.

https://goo.gl/J2mLZk

Also - you can really use any MP3 you want as long as it is renamed as one of the music files in the folder and it will play in the game at the appropriate points.

Thats a good mod, though I didn't care for the music much, too modern to fit the game. So I made my own version of it by rendering the original midi's through a Gravis Ultrasound 1mb, giving it a much more fitting sound for the "time".

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8sob1m8t4k9fdqp/Lurking_MP3_Music_GUS.zip?dl=1

 

[oklabsoft]

So, I started a new game, and I really dislike the soundtrack. It sounds so artificial like out of a mario game. Does it get better as the game progresses?

Here is a link for a MOD package. It contains an alternate .exe that plays MP3 rather than .MIDI as well as a new 'MUSIC' folder with MP3 music for the game. The files need to be in the right directory positions in your full game download. I would just rename the old MUSIC folder (in case you want to switch back to MIDI) before copying in the MP3 MUSIC folder. Hope that helps.

https://goo.gl/J2mLZk

Also - you can really use any MP3 you want as long as it is renamed as one of the music files in the folder and it will play in the game at the appropriate points.

Thats a good mod, though I didn't care for the music much, too modern to fit the game. So I made my own version of it by rendering the original midi's through a Gravis Ultrasound 1mb, giving it a much more fitting sound for the "time".

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8sob1m8t4k9fdqp/Lurking_MP3_Music_GUS.zip?dl=1

Love it! Great idea too. I noticed some of the songs are from the early game packages. You have been playing for a while?

 

[Epsilon]

So, I started a new game, and I really dislike the soundtrack. It sounds so artificial like out of a mario game. Does it get better as the game progresses?

Here is a link for a MOD package. It contains an alternate .exe that plays MP3 rather than .MIDI as well as a new 'MUSIC' folder with MP3 music for the game. The files need to be in the right directory positions in your full game download. I would just rename the old MUSIC folder (in case you want to switch back to MIDI) before copying in the MP3 MUSIC folder. Hope that helps.

https://goo.gl/J2mLZk

Also - you can really use any MP3 you want as long as it is renamed as one of the music files in the folder and it will play in the game at the appropriate points.

Thats a good mod, though I didn't care for the music much, too modern to fit the game. So I made my own version of it by rendering the original midi's through a Gravis Ultrasound 1mb, giving it a much more fitting sound for the "time".

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8sob1m8t4k9fdqp/Lurking_MP3_Music_GUS.zip?dl=1

Love it! Great idea too. I noticed some of the songs are from the early game packages. You have been playing for a while?

Just over the weekend, it's an interesting game for sure, really takes me back to the 80's.

 

[Saduj]

Played for an hour or so. Left the castle to find village where equipment is sold, was attacked twice on the same spot, opened trapped chest poisoning entire party and had to head back to castle. Yep, definitely feels like the 80's.

My only feedback so far would be that the day/night cycle seems very short. Combats were taking more than a day to complete. Is it supposed to be this way? Is there a way to slow it down?

 

[k0syak]

Played it for a bit, a (mildly) disturbing issue for me is the tiny illumination radius around the party, makes exploring even the starting castle very inconvenient. Lighting a torch seems to improve it a bit, but they don't last too long.

 

[oklabsoft]

My only feedback so far would be that the day/night cycle seems very short. Combats were taking more than a day to complete. Is it supposed to be this way? Is there a way to slow it down?

My brother (who made the game with me) and I actually argued quite a bit about this. He was probably right as usual. The game has a year cycle with seasons which I wanted the player to be able to experience. This is part of the reason why the cycle is so quick. Also, there is much more 'light' than 'dark' in the day cycle so I figured players without a torch or light spell could easily 'wait it out' then. I think what I will do is see if I can build in a quick option to put some control over this for the player. Should not take long. I will let you know when it's ready.

Played it for a bit, a (mildly) disturbing issue for me is the tiny illumination radius around the party, makes exploring even the starting castle very inconvenient. Lighting a torch seems to improve it a bit, but they don't last too long.

One thing we did later on in dev as a compromise was just dim the lighting at night when in towns. I must have excluded the castle from that. I will check that too... and make torches last longer?

 

[k0syak]

My only feedback so far would be that the day/night cycle seems very short. Combats were taking more than a day to complete. Is it supposed to be this way? Is there a way to slow it down?

My brother (who made the game with me) and I actually argued quite a bit about this. He was probably right as usual. The game has a year cycle with seasons which I wanted the player to be able to experience. This is part of the reason why the cycle is so quick. Also, there is much more 'light' than 'dark' in the day cycle so I figured players without a torch or light spell could easily 'wait it out' then. I think what I will do is see if I can build in a quick option to put some control over this for the player. Should not take long. I will let you know when it's ready.

+1 to longer day/night cycle and maybe an option to pass (more than spacebar) time.

Played it for a bit, a (mildly) disturbing issue for me is the tiny illumination radius around the party, makes exploring even the starting castle very inconvenient. Lighting a torch seems to improve it a bit, but they don't last too long.

One thing we did later on in dev as a compromise was just dim the lighting at night when in towns. I must have excluded the castle from that. I will check that too... and make torches last longer?

Torches lasting longer - not sure if needed, since you get the illumination spell and song almost at the start.
How does the Shield of Deflection function BTW, do you USE it at the start of battle?
Is burglary used for oppening chests only?

 

[oklabsoft]

Burglar skill is regrettably only used to disarm traps when opening chests. With full understanding that there should have been more depth to this, I want to say that in Lurking II burglar skill does this plus spotting and disarming floor traps (not done), backstabbing in battle, hide in shadows, surprise attack leap from shadows (all currently done). Hope that gets me off the hook a bit.

The shield is a magical shield that increases protection more than a regular shield. You don't have to 'use' it... Just equip it to get the benefit. Some items affect attributes and once equipped a small '+#' will show up on char stat screen to show adjustment to base value.

 

[oklabsoft]

Ok, regarding the darkness of night: Looking over the code, changing the length of the day/night cycle looked to be a scary thing with respect to the possible introduction of bugs. Hopefully for those who find this aspect annoying I was able to create a solution. Once it is completely night, pressing "Z" in this version (think 'Zzzzzzzz.') will result in your party safely resting for the night and the first light of dawn will immediately follow. Just for the sake of discussion - I remembered that I argued that even with the rapid day/night cycle that currently exists in the game, it is possible to cross the vast western continent from castle Paliterith to the town of West Dispertine (some hundred leagues) and still make it to the local tavern in time for a mug of ale and leg of roast mutton before bed.

I made this modification to the executable that uses MIDI music. The MP3 mod now diverges and I can't change both at once but I am willing to modify that version if someone needs it. Really appreciate the great feedback. Wish I had signed on back during development of L1.

Executable (only) with 'Rest for the night' mod for MIDI version: https://goo.gl/uqrFY8

 

[Grauken]

I have to admit, while I do like day-night cycles in theory in old crpgs, usually the cycle was so short that it always took me out of the game, sort of (don't want to mention immersion, but that's basically it) and at some point usually morphed into a mere annoyance. It also rarely added anything in terms of gameplay other than lower general visibility of the environment. I do like that in better old crpgs shops and similar stuff was closed during the night or even town gates and people went to sleep. I don't remember ever seen monsters that hunt better at night due to depending on hearing/smelling/heat vision instead of normal vision or players skills improved during night time, this would be a cool feature.

 

[k0syak]

Burglar skill is regrettably only used to disarm traps when opening chests. With full understanding that there should have been more depth to this, I want to say that in Lurking II burglar skill does this plus spotting and disarming floor traps (not done), backstabbing in battle, hide in shadows, surprise attack leap from shadows (all currently done). Hope that gets me off the hook a bit.

The more the merrier (obviously), but it's cool even if it's used for disarming only.

The shield is a magical shield that increases protection more than a regular shield. You don't have to 'use' it... Just equip it to get the benefit. Some items affect attributes and once equipped a small '+#' will show up on char stat screen to show adjustment to base value.

Gonna try it the next time I'm playing, but AFAIR couldn't equip it.

 

[CryptRat]

So you finally joined the Codex. I won't be the go-between anymore . Also we can have some of our discussions about features of Lurking 2 here so that more people can arbitrate participate.

As I already told you I really like the new abilities in combat and especially that the monsters use more abilities.
However I'm also still not sure about the combat taking place directly on the world map instead of on a separated screen. I know it's a way to make combat avoidable but it feels weird.
Given enemies would pop like in Lurking 1, adding some song, spell and/or consumables which reduce enemy appearing could suffice. Besides the enemies are visible on the map (in Lurking 1) so it is possible to make them more or less avoidable with this system.
Maybe enemies (the enemy group, on the world map) could also (sometimes?) flee from you when you've become significantly stronger than them.
That said the fact that another group of enemies can join a battle in progress is very fun, so that's something you could keep whatever you're going to do.

 

[B0rt]

whoah this is very much like U3, w/ NPC conversations closer to U4-5 though (works for me)
thanks CryptRat for representin this, it's interesting to see an austere sorta CRPG get into some shape right in front of your eyes.

Makes me wish we lived in a world where we all were taught to code from an earlier age... like require every able-brained kid to learn to the skills well enough to create an Ultima 4-ish type game before they reach age 12(?) - I bet you could predict people's life trajectory with 85% accuracy just by checking out the CRPG world they were required to create in school. The games would be way dumber and more unplayable than U4 /Lurking, natch, but you'd learn a a hell of lot from the world building and NPCs, to be sure.

 

[oklabsoft]

Makes me wish we lived in a world where we all were taught to code from an earlier age... like require every able-brained kid to learn to the skills well enough to create an Ultima 4-ish type game before they reach age 12(?) - I bet you could predict people's life trajectory with 85% accuracy just by checking out the CRPG world they were required to create in school. The games would be way dumber and more unplayable than U4 /Lurking, natch, but you'd learn a a hell of lot from the world building and NPCs, to be sure.

Funny thing is, I am a high school science teacher and I have tried to get students involved in coding and they do not seem to be interested. Yet, many of them have a difficult time using basic logic to analyze and find creative solutions to problems... all things that I am positive I got better at from trying to make games... even if it was trying to make a game like Zork II on my Apple IIe when I was 8. Ahh.. How magical Zork II was.

 

[oklabsoft]

However I'm also still not sure about the combat taking place directly on the world map instead of on a separated screen. I know it's a way to make combat avoidable but it feels weird.

I feel you. But, I am WAY down that road. One thing I think of is that with the change in scale, the tiles become less 'representative' and more 'actual'. If I were to cut to a battle screen of some sort I am not really sure how it would differ from what you are already viewing. I guess it reminds me more of a 'retro-ized' UO (as if it is not already retro enough) or turn based Warcraft III type perspective.

adding some song, spell and/or consumables which reduce enemy appearing could suffice.

My brother read that and immediately texted me to demand that I put in such a song so I guess that is now a definite. This also made me think of the idea that perhaps the cumulative Burglar skill of the party (or average) might produce a similar effect. Early on my bro talked about monsters at night perhaps being drawn to your torch or light spell. Still toying with this idea as well. While I am thinking of that, I think the day/night cycle in L2 worked out much better than in L1. Did you have an opinion on that? After doing the 'rest for night' mode to L1, I think I would definitely like to add that to L2 as well and perhaps include some HP recovery (and chance of being waylaid?).

Maybe enemies (the enemy group, on the world map) could also (sometimes?) flee from you when you've become significantly stronger than them.

This too is a great idea and will definitely be added. Thanks!

 

[oklabsoft]

I don't remember ever seen monsters that hunt better at night due to depending on hearing/smelling/heat vision instead of normal vision or players skills improved during night time, this would be a cool feature.

Also a great idea. L2 has packs of wargs that go right for the weakest party member. They seem like a perfect candidate for this. Thanks!

 

[oklabsoft]

Time to break the silence. Little brother weighing in.

I have to admit, while I do like day-night cycles in theory in old crpgs, usually the cycle was so short that it always took me out of the game, sort of (don't want to mention immersion, but that's basically it) and at some point usually morphed into a mere annoyance. It also rarely added anything in terms of gameplay other than lower general visibility of the environment. I do like that in better old crpgs shops and similar stuff was closed during the night or even town gates and people went to sleep.

Yeah, I know the feeling...but...when I get that feeling, I remember that night time is kind of a pain for exactly that reason. I argued down the night cycle quite a bit from where it stood from the get go. But, it makes exploration hard, as it should. Torches and casting spells get around this, but later in the game there is the catharsis of getting a cool item that always lights the way to some degree, so you no longer have to worry about it. Hopefully that makes up for it.
Basically, some degree of limited visibility due to nighttime was part of the same level of 'role play' as:

"You wake up (virually) naked and afraid in a strange world without a map and only the strange civilization around to talk to. Better talk to them and get the lay of the land. Should I go off this road and wander off even though it is night and I have naught but a dagger between me and a pack of hungry rat-things? Sure why not...There is a sign that tells me what direction to go. Should I read it? Nah, lets just wander off and see where the night takes us...probably a bad idea...might get lost." The hazards of fantasy-life.

Anyway, I will get off my high horse. I liked where the game ended up, but it definitely has its issues, and I think we will try to address many of them in L2 (and maybe an eventual reboot of L1). It's actually kind of a funny thing - as you develop this sort of game, you come up with ideas during development (and sequels) thinking they are novel. But then the more you think about it, you realize the commonality with U3-6 and you start to understand why they had the design and nuances that they did. Basically you end up arriving at the same logic (semi-) independently. Pretty crazy.

However I'm also still not sure about the combat taking place directly on the world map instead of on a separated screen. I know it's a way to make combat avoidable but it feels weird.

You know, the only other way I can think of doing this is the FF or Dragon Warrior way - with a dedicated tactical face-to-face encounter. I get the strategy behind it, but personally never loved that design. I know some prefer it, but if you are not passionate about the design it is hard to build on it creatively. Hopefully we make this approach work well.
OK, back to L2.

 

[CryptRat]

You know, the only other way I can think of doing this is the FF or Dragon Warrior way - with a dedicated tactical face-to-face encounter. I get the strategy behind it, but personally never loved that design. I know some prefer it, but if you are not passionate about the design it is hard to build on it creatively. Hopefully we make this approach work well.

I meant that I preferred the approach of Lurking 1 (which uses a separated screen) to the one of Lurking 2. But I'll get used it, maybe I'll eventually like it even more.

 

[Grauken]

It really depends on how downscaled the overall map is. If it's a more abstract map with icons for town and cave entries, battles on separate screens that zoomed in on an area make sense, but if its more like U6 where you're already walk around a highly zoomed-in map, then fights right there in the environment make more sense

 

[oklabsoft]

Yeah - so L2 is definitely more of the U6 scale. You walk right into towns etc, although structures change maps and have slightly smaller scale on the inside (think Link to the Past). If it pans out like we hope (although it rarely does), it should be pretty cool. I think having it all one one map is going to add some interesting design elements that couldn't be done on a separate battle map. But I get it, I always liked the battle map too, and had mixed feelings on the combat in U6. Hopefully we can make it work. It will be fun to try something new. Anyway, we changed the battle for YOU CryptRat

 

[Grauken]

Also, re day-night cycle, I'm not against doing them, but I just prefer if the cycles are longer, think 2 hours of actual play-time for a day and 2 hrs for a night. I always felt like some old games were making fun of me when I walked for ten minutes and a whole day-night cycle went by, that was just ridiculous