Magic the Gathering Arena

[you know what time it is]

Aw yiss, 2nd draft in (first was 3-3 B/W knight-adventure deck), went with G/W creature feature (had a troll king in the first pack, but he saw play only once in the very last game). Great Henge brought me back from a sure loss more than a few times though, pretty nice card considering how most value cards are seemingly at the lower end of the spectrum in this set (gingerbrute, gargoyle, lucky clover etc.). Going blind this time around without checking any guides or archetypes, so far so good.

 

[anvi]

My red Calamity deck gets owned because of the little creatures and it doesn't really have any punch without calamity. You either draw Calamity early and it needs to survive too, or you lose. But even like that I usually win 3 games on average in constructed. I think I won 6 games one time.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

So I had this idea for a mono-blu mill deck using lucky clover + secret keepers and holy fucking shit guys when the deck pops off it's NASTY!

Bounce the whole damn board with one borrower:

 

[anvi]

How do Esper Control decks beat the Field of the Dead decks?

mono-blu mill deck using lucky clover + secret keepers

Is it winning a lot? I want to make a lucky clover deck but figured there were stronger ways to spend my limited wildcards. But never seen a mill focused one before.

 

[spectre]

Lucky clover is a fun card, and an uncommon, so that's an easy craft to dick around with if you're looking for a fundeck. Still, you'd need the rares - bonecrusher giant, murderous rider, lovestruck beast to get any real use out of that, but from what I've played with it, it pays back the investment pretty quickly.

My red Calamity deck gets owned because of the little creatures and it doesn't really have any punch without calamity. You either draw Calamity early and it needs to survive too, or you lose. But even like that I usually win 3 games on average in constructed. I think I won 6 games one time.

This would be the limitation of the cavalcade decks. They're good in that they can consistently threaten a turn 4 kill, but the moment people start interacting with you cavalcade (or you simply don't draw it), it turns out you're really playing a bunch of inefficient creatures (Chandra's Spitfire, Torch Courier and Simpering Scorcher all spring into mind). I prefer the more traditional RDW build with Torbran, Rimjob Knights, Steam-Kuns etc., but the results aren't spectacular here either. Enjoy the wins you're getting, 3 wins in standard event is solid to build a playable pool of uncommons, but be prepared to let it go, and just start building towards something else.

How do Esper Control decks beat the Field of the Dead decks?

I would say, it doesn't. Esper pretty much went out of standard when Scapeshift became a thing until other decks (Kethis Kombinating Kontrapton) pushed the Scapeshift and UG Flash out of the meta).
Long answer, you get a few opportunities to cripple it, remove the offending field with Unmoored Ego, shut off the land fetching with Ashiok, Dream Render, and those two should really slow it down. Shut off the remaining card draw with Narset and control the general population with wraths,
finally groom a big Lilianna (with or without the help of the elderspell) and utlimate to eat their entire field. That's the theory, in practice, you'd need a lot of stuff to come together. Fae of Wishes can help you get the pieces, but it won't be fast.

In comparison, Fires of Invention UBR gets access to better answers (Casualties of War from sideboard) and gets to the good part faster, so if you want to play control, there's that. WUR control obviously flies over the whole shebang with Sarkan Planeswanking Squadron, preferably lifelinked after Clarioning a whole bunch of zombies.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

How do Esper Control decks beat the Field of the Dead decks?

mono-blu mill deck using lucky clover + secret keepers

Is it winning a lot? I want to make a lucky clover deck but figured there were stronger ways to spend my limited wildcards. But never seen a mill focused one before.

Only played 3 games but it's 2-1.. Decks I make aren't really competitive and prolly wouldn't go far in ranked, I just like to fuck around in unranked but it's viable there. Actually that deck I made is pretty cheap if you have a lot of uncommon and common wildcards, you can just swap the few mythics/rares with common cards and it'd work about the same in theory.

I feel like after rotation 3 color decks are a major pain in the ass to get working because the check lands rotated out with eldraine. Scry lands in my experience are too slow

 

[anvi]

Lucky clover is a fun card, and an uncommon, so that's an easy craft to dick around with if you're looking for a fundeck. Still, you'd need the rares - bonecrusher giant, murderous rider, lovestruck beast to get any real use out of that, but from what I've played with it, it pays back the investment pretty quickly.

My red Calamity deck gets owned because of the little creatures and it doesn't really have any punch without calamity. You either draw Calamity early and it needs to survive too, or you lose. But even like that I usually win 3 games on average in constructed. I think I won 6 games one time.

This would be the limitation of the cavalcade decks. They're good in that they can consistently threaten a turn 4 kill, but the moment people start interacting with you cavalcade (or you simply don't draw it), it turns out you're really playing a bunch of inefficient creatures (Chandra's Spitfire, Torch Courier and Simpering Scorcher all spring into mind). I prefer the more traditional RDW build with Torbran, Rimjob Knights, Steam-Kuns etc., but the results aren't spectacular here either. Enjoy the wins you're getting, 3 wins in standard event is solid to build a playable pool of uncommons, but be prepared to let it go, and just start building towards something else.

How do Esper Control decks beat the Field of the Dead decks?

I would say, it doesn't. Esper pretty much went out of standard when Scapeshift became a thing until other decks (Kethis Kombinating Kontrapton) pushed the Scapeshift and UG Flash out of the meta).
Long answer, you get a few opportunities to cripple it, remove the offending field with Unmoored Ego, shut off the land fetching with Ashiok, Dream Render, and those two should really slow it down. Shut off the remaining card draw with Narset and control the general population with wraths,
finally groom a big Lilianna (with or without the help of the elderspell) and utlimate to eat their entire field. That's the theory, in practice, you'd need a lot of stuff to come together. Fae of Wishes can help you get the pieces, but it won't be fast.

In comparison, Fires of Invention UBR gets access to better answers (Casualties of War from sideboard) and gets to the good part faster, so if you want to play control, there's that. WUR control obviously flies over the whole shebang with Sarkan Planeswanking Squadron, preferably lifelinked after Clarioning a whole bunch of zombies.

Thanks U/B/W Control is what I hoped to build towards, I really like the idea of bouncing Oath regularly to keep doing 3 damage to stuff and gaining 3 life every time. And then end it with either Manse or Command the Deadhorde which seems doable with all the life gain. Some board wipes in there and seems reliable in some videos I watched. But at my current rank in ranked it is 99% Field of the Dead decks and I am thinking a deck that bounces Oath all day would die constantly to Field of the Dead. That deck pisses me off so much I am tempted to make a deck designed just to beat it. I guess an Ego deck would be best but maybe land destruction / theft.

 

[anvi]

My cavalcade deck would win a lot more if I had 3 Chandra :/ I have 1 that I won and don't want to buy anymore because I wont use it once I ditch this deck.

 

[spectre]

My cavalcade deck would win a lot more if I had 3 Chandra :/ I have 1 that I won and don't want to buy anymore because I wont use it once I ditch this deck.

Chandra is also good enough in BR oven (time will tell if it's anywhere near a solid tier two), she's also two extra Risen Reef Triggers (although that deck just might be dead), so it's not such a bad investment to get two then wait for the third one and fourth one to drop from ICRs.
You just might find a use for her.

On the other hand, you probably just want to build something else for variety. Even so, you probably wouldn't be ditching the trusty mono red. While I am more partial to the non-calamity mono red decks, there are days when it doesn't win shit, and sometimes it's the only thing that can win. Today I was on a streak of 6 loses, decided to say fuck it for the day, but I still wanted to at least get the 250 shekel daily. RDW was the only deck I could get a win with today (ended up pulling the plug on four), and shit like that just happens in BO1.

 

[anvi]

Yeah I find it boring as hell to play tbh but it just wins so well. It frustrates me to play against someone with blockers etc.. and I am sure I will lose. Especially if they start killing my little creatures and even the cavalcade. But it wins a lot simply because any slow deck is screwed, I beat them in 5 turns or so before they can even do much. What I really want is a stronger control deck like a Manse deck that bounces Oath constantly. I also love the Multitudes decks. But I need like 10 rares for either of those and they are slow as hell to generate. I play about 10-20 matches a day and generate on average, 0 rares or rare wildcards :/

I thought about just buying the 9200 or whatever gems, but spending money on stuff that will rotate in a year rubs me the wrong way. I'm not cheap, I would pay it, but losing it all in a year bugs me, especially seeing as Historic mode seems like an afterthought with no rewards.

 

[Scruffy]

How do Esper Control decks beat the Field of the Dead decks?

deputy of detentions, remove all zombies, bounce deputy back to your hand with teferi

kaya's wrath

 

[anvi]

Ahh wow. My deck has 4 Kaya's Wrath but usually I only manage to do 1 or 2 and the zombies keep coming :/ Bouncing that deputy though...! I tried to make a land destruction deck but I don't have the cards yet.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

holy shit i'm tellin yall just force the fucking blue mill deck in draft every time I've never had such a high win rate wouldn't b surprised if I hit mythic with this bullshit. It's literally guaranteed to be a baller deck if u force every time

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Speaking of mill, this is the best mill list I've played/seen thus far for standard.

Spoiler

4 Merfolk Secretkeeper (ELD) 53
8 Island (XLN) 265
2 Swamp (XLN) 269
4 Watery Grave (GRN) 259
4 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
4 Overwhelmed Apprentice (ELD) 60
4 Drowned Secrets (GRN) 39
4 Vantress Gargoyle (ELD) 71
4 Wall of Lost Thoughts (RNA) 59
3 Thought Collapse (RNA) 57
3 Didn't Say Please (ELD) 42
4 Drown in the Loch (ELD) 188
4 Witching Well (ELD) 74
3 Into the Story (ELD) 50
3 Mystic Sanctuary (ELD) 247
1 Castle Vantress (ELD) 242
1 Callous Dismissal (WAR) 44

2 Negate (RIX) 44
4 Thought Erasure (GRN) 206
1 Aether Gust (M20) 42
2 Ritual of Soot (GRN) 84
2 Mystical Dispute (ELD) 58
2 Murderous Rider (ELD) 97
2 Ashiok, Dream Render (WAR) 228

Shameless netdeck, but such is the price when everywhere you go you must mill. Just lightly splashing black for JUST drown in the loch works pretty nice, and the scry from witching well and overwhelmed apprentice is a lot better than I was giving it credit for. I've probably been undervaluing scry. Into the story is also damn good in mill. I'm personally not running 4x vantress gargoyles just because I haven't felt like crafting a playset of them yet, so I'm mainboarding some negate and another callous dismissal. The swarms of shitty blockers also makes up for a fair amount of weakness, just have to look out for questing beasts and shit. Not bad.

 

[Doktor Best]

My red Calamity deck gets owned because of the little creatures and it doesn't really have any punch without calamity. You either draw Calamity early and it needs to survive too, or you lose. But even like that I usually win 3 games on average in constructed. I think I won 6 games one time.

Which card draw/cycle cards do you play?

Anyways, i would hold off crafting anything right now. Wizards announced that they will reschedule their banned/restricted list release to 21th October and word is out that it will target Golos/Field of the Dead, which would lead to a big shift in the meta.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[you know what time it is]

once ive turned limited gold, it feels like im playing with people who burned some wildcards

Same here, it's a mill city with an occasional godlike draft, I want to go back to silver

 

[anvi]

My red Calamity deck gets owned because of the little creatures and it doesn't really have any punch without calamity. You either draw Calamity early and it needs to survive too, or you lose. But even like that I usually win 3 games on average in constructed. I think I won 6 games one time.

Which card draw/cycle cards do you play?

Anyways, i would hold off crafting anything right now. Wizards announced that they will reschedule their banned/restricted list release to 21th October and word is out that it will target Golos/Field of the Dead, which would lead to a big shift in the meta.

It has 4 light up the stage which is really uber. Although still, if I don't get Cavalcade early it is a pretty sure loss. I would win a lot more if I had 3 or 4 Chandra but I only have one and don't wanna buy any more. I played against people who have Torbran in the deck too and it seems really great, like having 8 Cavalcades in there! But I don't wanna buy that either.

Thanks for the tip about the 21st October, I didn't know that. I really want to make a good control deck but getting rares seems so damn slow :/ I made 1 in about 3 weeks. Grinding the Standard Event is filling in a lot of the missing uncommons though, and I generally make enough gold from it to cover the cost of the next match. So it isn't costing me anything.

 

[Scruffy]

Ahh wow. My deck has 4 Kaya's Wrath but usually I only manage to do 1 or 2 and the zombies keep coming :/ Bouncing that deputy though...! I tried to make a land destruction deck but I don't have the cards yet.

don't really spend wildcards to make a LD deck though, I've tried them all and they just don't work.

 

[spectre]

Last time you could do a semi-functional LD fundeck was around Dominaria, where you had Haphazard Bombardment and Fall of the Thran + exile all cards in graveyard.
Obviously I'm not seeing you throwing rare wildcards at a historic fundeck.

Demolish might be a better card than it looks answering both Golos and whatever Golos puts on the table, though I've seen black/red decks maindecking Bedeck // Bedazzle to answer field of the dead, but that's a junk rare imo,
and I wouldn't go out of my way to craft it.

Might be so it just gets the fucking axe and spares us all the headache, though I suspect they do some dodging like banning Golos to slow it down without killing.
Would have all beend solves if they bothered to reprint a fucking wasteland equivalent.

Also, anvi if you're looking for extra cavalcades, Castle Embereth is an easy 2x. Should be a staple in all sorts of red aggro for as long as it stays legal.
Still, I understand you not wanting to throw wildcards at that deck any more.

 

[anvi]

I've got a castle I'd like one more but yeah, not gonna do any more for that deck. I would if rares weren't so rare but I am averaging about 1 a month at this rate I am probably going to need to pay for cards sometime or I will lose interest. I don't like buying packs full of randoms but at least if each pack moves the little wheel counter that gives a rare wildcard once it reaches 6 or whatever, that's not too bad. I tried a land destruction deck but the cards are too high mana, and not enough to really slow down a fast deck.

The only decks I would want to make are the tournament winning deck that uses Teferi to bounce Oath of Kaya constantly. It seems strong and I would enjoy the relentlessness of it. I also like the blue counterspells deck which just seems to win so easily (and fast). And lastly I like the green (and I think white) deck which uses Krasis. That card is so strong. I would much rather play a Multitudes deck but I can't see one that wins anything.

I'll tell you guys one of my own deck ideas which would likely struggle against all the netdecks... But it would be fun. Get some creatures that are high in defense with little or no attack, like Defender creatures (Crashing Drawbridge is 0/4 for 2 mana), pump their defense as high as you can with spells or enchantments. Then use Invert which swaps the power/toughness, and then use Fling to throw it at the enemy and win. I used to do it in classic but it was easier in that. But even in standard there is a card called Righteousness which gives +7/7 to a blocker for 1 white mana. If you could do that a couple of times on a creature that is already quite tough, you can block an attack and then Fling it at them to win on the same turn.

 

[spectre]

There was a deck like that pre-rotation, based on Arcades, the Strategist. Post rotation, you can use stuff like High Alert (thankfully, an uncommon).
The Yoked Ox + Gauntlet of Light combo should probably stay in limted where it belongs, but you can give it a go at low ranks.

Obviously, there's the downside of all your shit doing nothing if anyone starts interacting with your enchantments.

One rare (wildcard I assume) per month seems a bit low. You should easily be able to get 6 000 shekels per week just by playing till 4 wins each day, then buying packs should give you a rare wildcard and with some luck at least one rare you can use.
Yeah, it takes a while to progress this way, but I'm not sure throwing money at it would really solve anything, unless you really want to spend big and buy a big box, or just draft all day (and the current Eldraine draft feels a bit shitty to me).
The progression is a little bit more palatable with mastery.

Might be so that standard event is eating a bit too much, though it shouldn't be too bad if you can get three wins consistently.

 

[Scruffy]

buying boosters is not that great though, get good at drafting and you're easily set, you can play for free and make any deck you want

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

I came up with this orzhov deck to try to combat fotd but it seems to just be getting crushed by everything :/

Spoiler

4 Ethereal Absolution (RNA) 170
9 Swamp (MI) 0
7 Plains (ROE) 229
4 Hero of Precinct One (RNA) 11
2 Doom Foretold (ELD) 187
2 Liliana, Dreadhorde General (WAR) 97
4 Corpse Knight (M20) 206
4 Cruel Celebrant (WAR) 188
3 Mortify (RNA) 192
4 Foulmire Knight (ELD) 90
3 Murderous Rider (ELD) 97
4 Knight of the Ebon Legion (M20) 105
4 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
2 Castle Ardenvale (ELD) 238
2 Temple of Silence (M20) 256
2 Bag of Holding (M20) 222

Problem is I can't tell if it's garbage or if I've just been having bad luck, because every game I seem to be getting absolute ass draws and the deck doesn't really have anything to fix draws.

Actually I've been getting awful draws in general, it's not uncommon for me to have literally 10 (not joking) islands on top of my deck in draft, luckily I usually have some witching wells and opts to move them to bottom but holy shit. Good thing the blue mill deck is so good that even bad draws can't stop it

 

[anvi]

I need to give drafting another go. I am so unlucky with boosters :/ I spend all my time doing Standard Event and I only win about 3 on average so I spend most of the gold I win and all I get from it are a few uncommons. I make a bit of extra gold which I've been spending on boosters and the return on that sucks.