Mass Effect Legendary Edition remaster trilogy

[Riddler]

I wonder what happened between ME1 and 2 to cause this shift in direction.

The most discussed topic back then regarding ME1 among the plebs was how cool it was to finally get sex scenes.
BioWare, maybe under the impulse of EA (?), went hard on giving that hollywood feel. This is why ME2 replaces ME1's scifi novel feeling by hollywood space opera shitshow. That's why we never got a proper sequel to ME1 with proper expansion of its well-presented setting.
I disagree with most of your summary of the trilogy. I believe that ME2 was far worse than ME1. It did everything but writing better you say, but that's forgetting that everything but writing is horrendous in ME1, and even if it's better, it's still pretty fucking bad in ME2 and 3. Writing however, was pretty good in ME1, and it turned to shit in 2 and 3. Oversexualisation of the companions being a clear and sad illustration of the complete downfall of the tone and themes of the game. So what ME1 did good, ME2 suddenly did very poorly.

We go from a game with good writing to a game with pretty much no qualities.

I thought the gameplay in ME2 was ok and the gameplay in ME3 was fun (for the first time in a bioware game since BG2). Not building on it seems like major mistake to me, since they finally stumbled upon something that worked and that was in the gameplay genre they wanted to make games in.

Regarding the character writing I think it both got better and worse at the same time. All the romance shit was terrible, and some characters got butchered (primarily Ashley) and I guess that is what a lot of people remember but plenty of the other stuff did get better, especially in ME3, with the help of greatly improved animation. The sacrifice being that you have less control over things. Companions interact naturally with both the environment and each other a lot more but you can't direct the conversations any more, you just watch scenes playing out. I don't really mind since the control was almost completely illusionary in ME1 anyway.

 

[MajorMace]

I admit I haven't replayed ME3 but the first few hours of ME2 didn't motivate me to keep on. I don't know how better the gunfight got.
I do also admit I have a negative bias towards the sequels because back in 2008 when I played ME1, I really got into the setting and was kind of dumbfounded that ME2 threw away the ME1 endgame situation. I wanted to see more intergalactic diplomacy. In a way, the storyline of ME2 feels transposable to any setting, with some adaptations, and I frankly found myself sour and disappointed in 2010.

 

[Riddler]

I admit I haven't replayed ME3 but the first few hours of ME2 didn't motivate me to keep on. I don't know how better the gunfight got.
I do also admit I have a negative bias towards the sequels because back in 2008 when I played ME1, I really got into the setting and was kind of dumbfounded that ME2 threw away the ME1 endgame situation. I wanted to see more intergalactic diplomacy. In a way, the storyline of ME2 feels transposable to any setting, with some adaptations, and I frankly found myself sour and disappointed in 2010.

Me too, I could barely stand playing through ME2 at the time and I was really pissed at ME3, it left a very sour taste in the mouth.

 

[Nutria]

In a way, the storyline of ME2 feels transposable to any setting, with some adaptations

Yeah, for a "trilogy" it's very disjointed. ME1 does a good job of building up a base to work from. Then ME2 goes into this weird tangent of making you work for Cerberus that makes absolutely no sense and Shepherd just looks like a retard. Then ME3 kind of gets back on track and sometimes at least they get the tone right for the final act of a trilogy. But it's pretty dumb too and then in the last few hours they spring this "organics vs. synthetics" bullshit on you out of nowhere and you realize they never did have any kind of theme running through all three games so they just had to make one up in the end.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yes, we know all of this because ME is the most analysed video game series in existence. Quite undeservedly if you ask me, but eh.

 

[MajorMace]

I dont know if it's overanalyzed, but it really doesn't need any examination to feel that something makes no sense with ME2.
As nutria points it, they basically wanted to make a trilogy, knew how it should start and end but seemed to have zero idea what to do in between. You spend 80% of ME2 "building up your team" lol.
No sure why some would write several parts retrospective to dig that out.

 

[Atlantico]

Yes, we know all of this because ME is the most analysed video game series in existence. Quite undeservedly if you ask me, but eh.

Depends how you look at it. I don't think it is being analyzed so much only because of people losing their shit over the ME3 ending, though that's part of it.

Then there's analysis due to the bizarre disjointed nature of the "trilogy" and the fourth game, which was its own controversy.

A decade has passed and it's all a mess and it's interesting to see how you can go from a rather generic and safe action-RPG to the disasters that followed - the main disaster being that ME2, terrible as it was, appealed to the mainstream.

That ensured that ME3 would never be a good game, because it had to end the trilogy and be ME2 at the same time.

Such absolute trainwrecks are very attractive to analyze.

 

[Bad Sector]

knew how it should start and end

Too bad whoever knew the end part kept it for themselves :-P

 

[J1M]

Immunity skill (soldier) is heavily nerfed in ME1 (only lasts 6 seconds instead of 20).

Doesn't seem like you could hit level 60 in a single play of ME1 without some form of meta-gaming.

Immunity was the craziest thing in ME1. I don't remember if the original game ever explained that enemies were using it when their health started flashing white. I remember it took me forever to figure that out when I played it as a kid. Rewarding when you realize Warp and Neural Shock are good counters, kind of.

You couldn't hit 60 in a single game in the original, even with stepping out of the Mako to get full XP for kills etc. I read they made some changes to XP gains and leveling for LE but I don't know if it's any different now.

They changed the XP gains from the MAKO and implied in the press that you could hit max level in a single play. In practice it looks like level 55 is about where you'd top out.

 

[Lacrymas]

As nutria points it, they basically wanted to make a trilogy, knew how it should start and end but seemed to have zero idea what to do in between. Y

The whole trilogy turned out to be a disaster because nobody knew how it would/should end, so not so sure about that.

 

[Riddler]

As nutria points it, they basically wanted to make a trilogy, knew how it should start and end but seemed to have zero idea what to do in between. Y

The whole trilogy turned out to be a disaster because nobody knew how it would/should end, so not so sure about that.

Didn't Drew Karpyshyn have an ending in mind but they threw that out sometime during the making of ME2 and after that there wasn't a direction?

 

[Nutria]

He had some ideas. The reapers were going to have a motive that actually made sense, where they were wiping out all life to prevent an even worse disaster from happening. I don't think he'd really fleshed out the details of it, but it definitely would have been better than what we got in the end.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I'm amazed why no rpg developer has ever tried to replicate the mass effect formula. Obsidian, CD projekt, inxile, etc, they try the same pedantic shit over and over again while the space opera set piece extravaganza with larger than life characters resumes itself to mass effect and nothing else.

The market is there, as this remaster shows, anything similar would sell millions, the expertise is there, no lack of developers versed on third person action games. No sure what is missing.

 

[Lacrymas]

As nutria points it, they basically wanted to make a trilogy, knew how it should start and end but seemed to have zero idea what to do in between. Y

The whole trilogy turned out to be a disaster because nobody knew how it would/should end, so not so sure about that.

Didn't Drew Karpyshyn have an ending in mind but they threw that out sometime during the making of ME2 and after that there wasn't a direction?

There's the whole "dark matter" thing, but I don't know if that was his idea or something else. As far as I know, it was supposed to be the dark matter plot line, but someone leaked it prematurely, so they felt the need to change it. I have no idea if that is actually true or if it was just a rumor.

 

[Orud]

I saved this screenshot after replaying ME1 on PC about half a decade ago. To me this screenshot has always clearly shown that Bioware initially had interesting ideas, but just completely shat on them in the sequels.

Spoiler

You know what apparently really blurs the line between organics and synthetic life? Green space magic that rewrites all DNA in the galaxy to be 'synthetic', printing microchips on everyone's skin and turning your eyes vomit green. Oh and everyone, including the reapers, then hold hands and start singing kumbaya. Because from then on, everyone is the same and can instantly, remotely, communicate with each other, which guarantees peace... somehow.

 

[Ismaul]

I'm amazed why no rpg developer has ever tried to replicate the mass effect formula. Obsidian, CD projekt, inxile, etc

They didn't want to compete with ME in the space RPG market.

This is why Alpha Protocol was made, taking the same dialogue wheel, adding a twist to it, changing the setting to spy stuff.

 

[J1M]

As nutria points it, they basically wanted to make a trilogy, knew how it should start and end but seemed to have zero idea what to do in between. Y

The whole trilogy turned out to be a disaster because nobody knew how it would/should end, so not so sure about that.

Didn't Drew Karpyshyn have an ending in mind but they threw that out sometime during the making of ME2 and after that there wasn't a direction?

After they sidelined Drew, the only thing they were certain about was that Shepard would die, because that would make the trilogy more like a hollywood movie.

That idea was central to Mass Effect 2 and its marketing as well.

 

[J1M]

As nutria points it, they basically wanted to make a trilogy, knew how it should start and end but seemed to have zero idea what to do in between. Y

The whole trilogy turned out to be a disaster because nobody knew how it would/should end, so not so sure about that.

Didn't Drew Karpyshyn have an ending in mind but they threw that out sometime during the making of ME2 and after that there wasn't a direction?

There's the whole "dark matter" thing, but I don't know if that was his idea or something else. As far as I know, it was supposed to be the dark matter plot line, but someone leaked it prematurely, so they felt the need to change it. I have no idea if that is actually true or if it was just a rumor.

The Dark Matter plot is a bit of a meme. People overstate the number of references to it in ME2. I've been intentionally looking out for references to it this time, and thus far there's only been one when you rescue the Quarian in an early mission. He says the Collectors had traces of dark energy readings. But honestly, that's the kind of thing you might write about them anyway, since they are supposed to be a mysterious threat from a mass relay that nobody else can travel through.

 

[MajorMace]

By how it should end, I meant what the third opus was supposed to be about (galaxy vs reapers). Just like by how it should start, i meant the content of the first game, not shepard aboard the normandy tasked with investigating some remote colony...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

ME2 human-reaper is worse than the ME3 ending and you can't change my mind

 

[J1M]

ME2 human-reaper is worse than the ME3 ending and you can't change my mind

Reapers should have been a one-game per-trilogy villain.

 

[Atlantico]

Reapers should have been a one-game per-trilogy villain.

Absolutely, the Reapers should have been a mega-threat looming in the background. Out there, waiting.

Meanwhile, the Galaxy is large, mostly unexplored and full of potential adventures which have nothing to do with the Reapers. We could have had three or four trilogies of Mass Effect games.

But marketing, cocaine and EA along with the growing degeneracy at Bioware, put a stop to that.

 

[J1M]

Reapers should have been a one-game per-trilogy villain.

Absolutely, the Reapers should have been a mega-threat looming in the background. Out there, waiting.

Meanwhile, the Galaxy is large, mostly unexplored and full of potential adventures which have nothing to do with the Reapers. We could have had three or four trilogies of Mass Effect games.

But marketing, cocaine and EA along with the growing degeneracy at Bioware, put a stop to that.

It is strange that EA never looked at Mass Effect as their own Far Cry or Call of Duty that could support annual or biannual releases.

Honestly, I think Mass Effect 2 works better if you strip out the Reapers. A mysterious race from beyond known space kidnapping humans is a good plot hook. It creates some tension with the other council races because they aren't taking any losses, and even if their motivation was just the same as the Ket from Andromeda (reproduction via metamorphosis) that would work fine. Lots of room for interesting boss battles with giant alien bugs, etc.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the Galaxy is large

ME2/ME3 make the galaxy feel way too small, like it's a neighborhood or something. Also, there's plenty of dwarf galaxies that are gravitationally bound to our galaxy that are ripe for exploration. Plus the globular clusters on the galactic halo.

too much space magic damaged the setting and they need to rein it in for a new game(an area where MEA actually succeeded at)

 

[MajorMace]

After playing ME1, and considering it was supposed to be a trilogy from the get go (I'm not even sure if it was public knowledge back then, but let's pretend for now), the logical construction of the trilogy would have been so :
Start (ME1) : What reapers are, what happened to the protheans, what threat faces the galaxy. Subplot : Do you side with the council and champion galactic cooperation or do you push the pro-human agenda.
Ending (ME3) : Considering the revelation of ME1, it's safe to assume the end of the trilogy is about how the galaxy faces the reapers, and how they break the never ending cycle (I assume the most cliché version should have prevailed here). Subplot could be about how this threat is faced by either an harmonious coalition of species or humanity alone, who would have by your actions fucked up the council's power and freed europe from brussels technocrats.

In this regard, I would have assumed the bridge, ME2, to explore the galactic politics further, as it should have been the (more or less impactful) C&C generator for the last part. The actual plot would have logically been : how do you convince everyone that the threat is real and they should prepare. The subplot would be how you either favour the council or mankind in your quest for rallying ressources, allies and support from the galaxy.

Since ME2 turned out to be about how there are reapers out there and they need to be stopped, ie. didn't advance the plot of ME1 one bit but rather stuttered on the same shit, but with poorer delivery (Sovereign in ME1 being presented as giving close to 0 fucks about Shepard while whatsitsname in ME2 being homoerotically obsessed with Shepard, which is mega lame), it's difficult to produce a satisfying ending in ME3, since ME3 has to 'fill the shoes' of ME2 and produce a satisfying result to your choices/the plot at the same time. I have very few memories of ME3, but I remember thinking "well ME2 matters fuck all now, doesn't it ?" and the whole trilogy feels utterly pointless in the end.

Imagine getting a proper ME2, where the threat of the reapers is looming in an even more anxiogenous way, as pretty much nobody in the galaxy gives a fuck about your ramblings and keep on following their petty agenda, some of your fellow human included. This would have been a great theme to explore, and with the basic paragon/renegade system could offer two versions : you Ghandi the galaxy up or you settle for the universal chaos, revel in it and use the reaper threat to hijack political power for your faction.
The missed opportunities and wasted potential of ME2 is excruciating.