Mass Effect Legendary Edition remaster trilogy

[Morpheus Kitami]

- I still don't know how they got out of dark space btw. Wasn't the whole point of the ME1 ending that Sovereign had to suck the Citadel's cock or something in order to open a gateway that would let the assembled Reaper fleet through? And the Keepers were in on it or whatever? Where are the Reapers coming in from now? I still don't really get how they were going to come through the relay in Arrival either.

I'd say getting past the relay in Arrival is the least of the story's worries. They probably know how to fix the relays and if they're fast enough to get somewhere in our galaxy from nowhere in a few years, they can fly across the rest of space in a reasonable time span. Writers don't really understand the scale of space, since you need to go like 48 times the speed of light to get to Alpha Centauri from Earth and that's just 4 light years away. Been that way ever since Star Trek and probably earlier.

 

[Lemming42]

Playing the big DLC (I think it's DLC, anyway) where you join Aria and a new Turian character to retake Omega from Cerberus. This game really isn't bad at all, the plot is still laughable (Cerberus have taken over Omega?!) but it's succeeding as a stupid straightforward action adventure with """cool""" characters and set pieces in a way that ME2 never really did.

Any roleplaying elements feel totally tacked on and ultimately just amount to you saying the same thing either in a heroic way or edgy way, but that was largely the case in ME1 and ME2 too, and it feels like you have quite a bit more control here than in most of ME2. Combat is fun, I still laugh whenever I have to do a dodge-roll but it all feels a lot more fluid and smooth than either of the previous games. I wish they still had weapon skills from ME1 to invest in and let you specialise your build a bit more, but investing in powers instead is fine. The main plot with the Reapers is an absolute drag but thankfully it's mostly just been used as a plot device so far to justify us going off to do far less boring things.

As it stands I'm tempted to agree with rusty's earlier assessment that ME2 is the worst of the trilogy (though I think ME2 has the best structure of all the games, with the recruitment missions followed by loyalty missions and a lot of freeroaming) but I've still to get to the infamous ending of ME3 which I understand is so bad that even big Mass Effect fans think it's shocking. Most stuff in ME3 has felt decent so far (except for the truly abominable opening, up to the Citadel), with the genophage arc and what-not, whereas ME2 was a constant battle through crap to get to interesting stuff. Like, did anyone actually enjoy or care about, I dunno, Miranda's loyalty mission? A big fight through a warehouse to save a character we've never met for the sake of an annoying fool who we're forced to work with? Or Jack's loyalty mission where we walk slowly through a corridor while Krogans pop out?

 

[Lemming42]

Just did the genophage cure mission, really good stuff. Shot Mordin in the back and ruined the cure. Honestly some of the best stuff in the whole series so far, I winced internally every time it gave me the option to tell Eve and Wrex the truth and I chose to keep it to myself, and the mission ending genuinely felt like being kicked in the balls. I didn't even expect to actually ruin the cure but in the heat of the moment it felt like the right thing to do.

 

[Nutria]

Yeah that's the one time in an RPG where I really had a lot of trouble making up my mind what the right thing to do was. And it actually built from all your experiences with the krogan over the three games.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

ME3 DLC was good. Leviathan had a neat atmosphere and expanded upon the lore and Citadel represented a cozy sendoff for the series (although one shouldn't take it too seriously, both in terms of the trope represented by the DLC's antagonist and the sort of narrative break that it represents being put in the middle of the game). Don't recall much about the Omega one though, wasn't as memorable for me personally.

 

[Lemming42]

Yeah that's the one time in an RPG where I really had a lot of trouble making up my mind what the right thing to do was. And it actually built from all your experiences with the krogan over the three games.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I like it, especially the way it brings in so many different factors (Wrex being alive or dead, actions during Mordin's loyalty mission, etc). There's so much to consider with the decision, and it greatly rewards you for reading Codex entries and listening to side conversations, like if you know that Krogan lay a thousand eggs (?!) and that Wrex seems set on repeating the exact same chain of events that made everything go so horribly wrong after the Rachni Wars.

It's even better from a narrative standpoint because I'd been almost mindlessly picking the top right designated "Paragon" option in every conversation about the genophage in the past two games, so Shepard was constantly going on about how it was a war crime and how bad it was, but all that posturing went out the window when the threat of actually having the genophage removed became real.

I definitely see why sabotaging it is labelled as Renegade and releasing the cure is labelled as Paragon despite the complexity of the situation, but I hope the game doesn't go on to just treat the choice as black and white in that way if it gets brought up again in the future.

 

[HansDampf]

As it stands I'm tempted to agree with rusty's earlier assessment that ME2 is the worst of the trilogy (though I think ME2 has the best structure of all the games, with the recruitment missions followed by loyalty missions and a lot of freeroaming) but I've still to get to the infamous ending of ME3

And Kai Leng.

 

[Mauman]

And Kai Leng.

Spoiler

Sometimes, I'm in awe at how bad/unintentionally funny the writing is in the Mass Effect series.

 

[Caim]

ME3 DLC was good. Leviathan had a neat atmosphere and expanded upon the lore and Citadel represented a cozy sendoff for the series (although one shouldn't take it too seriously, both in terms of the trope represented by the DLC's antagonist and the sort of narrative break that it represents being put in the middle of the game). Don't recall much about the Omega one though, wasn't as memorable for me personally.

Leviathan was great for its mystery plot slowly building up, and the final stretch is quite literally has the most atmostphere in the entire series. Citadel is the "true" ending of the game alight, and was just a zany romp full of fanservice.

Omega was kinda disappointing though. They hype up the new monster all the way through like you're about to fight a lore-accurate Xenomorph of something, and... it's just a chunky lad with a gimmicky attack.

 

[racofer]

Just did the genophage cure mission, really good stuff. Shot Mordin in the back and ruined the cure.

It gets even better if you kill Wrex in Mass Effect 1. Then you can convince Mordin that curing the genophage is wrong and he joins the crucible effort.

 

[jackofshadows]

Just did the genophage cure mission, really good stuff. Shot Mordin in the back and ruined the cure.

It gets even better if you kill Wrex in Mass Effect 1. Then you can convince Mordin that curing the genophage is wrong and he joins the crucible effort.

It gets even better if you didn't. Then

Spoiler

if you sabotaged the cure you get that cool scene where Wrex assaulting mc at the Citadel's gate.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

As it stands I'm tempted to agree with rusty's earlier assessment that ME2 is the worst of the trilogy (though I think ME2 has the best structure of all the games, with the recruitment missions followed by loyalty missions and a lot of freeroaming) but I've still to get to the infamous ending of ME3 which I understand is so bad that even big Mass Effect fans think it's shocking.

ME3 is my favorite game in the series and I've always loved the ending. However, I think it works best if you adjust your expectations. The "ending" of ME3 starts about half way through the game as the series starts wrapping up some of the biggest, on going, plot-threads that started with ME1 (i.e. the genophage, the Geth, cerebus, and etc.), and it continues as it starts wrapping up all of the individual side-character stories (The Citadel DLC does most of the work of this, but some get wrapped up in major side missions as well). Even the Leviathan DLC wraps up the origins of the Reapers to the point that there's not much for the ending proper of the game to reveal that hasn't been already.

It kind of shocked me that people were so outraged by the ending, as ME3, as a game, is basically nothing but endings. It has so many endings, most of which depend heavily on your choices from the proceeding 2 games, that the ending proper seems mostly like an afterthought. Honestly, I really don't know what people expected, as ME as a series has probably the most consequential C&C of any big budget RPG series ever, and ME3 is where it's all paid off.

Although, I will say that people seem to have come around to ME3 as a game a decade later with the release of the Remastered Edition. Response from both critics and fans seems much more positive now than it was on release.

 

[Nano]

Just did the genophage cure mission, really good stuff. Shot Mordin in the back and ruined the cure.

It gets even better if you kill Wrex in Mass Effect 1. Then you can convince Mordin that curing the genophage is wrong and he joins the crucible effort.

It gets even better if you didn't. Then

Spoiler

if you sabotaged the cure you get that cool scene where Wrex assaulting mc at the Citadel's gate.

What a great questline. Who would've thought you'd see C&C like this in a ME game.

Of course, doing anything other than sabotaging the cure is peak bleeding-heart retardation. Their women lay a thousand eggs at a time, ffs.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Their women lay a thousand eggs at a time, ffs.

The weak must fear the strong.

 

[Nano]

The weak must fear the strong.

Most of the "strong" quickly got killed in their native environment of Tuchanka. Only reason that stopped is because they were uplifted.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

they were uplifted

Still doesn't justify such measures imho. Then again, don't feel like derailing this thread into a debate about ethics and the notion of bodily integrity. Although now that I think of it, I'm guessing that Lacrymas is probably on my side on this one (a.i. anti-genophage).

 

[Lambach]

After the terrible start, surprised to report that I'm lukewarmly enjoying ME3.

I keep telling people 3 is the best in the series, but they don't believe me. If you ignore the Deus Ex Machina nature of the overall plot and the insanely retarded ending, some individual plot elements are the best in the series and feel really impactful - resolving the genophage issue, the Quarian-Geth conflict, revelations on Thessia etc. Gameplay i.e. combat is by far the best in 3, to the point it's not just some hurdle you have to get over to get to the "good" parts, but is actually fairly enjoyable in its own right (on Insane difficulty, everything else is too much of a cakewalk to be fun).

Plus, the Citadel DLC is the one and only time I've genuinely enjoyed something that was blatant, dumb fan-service and it's by far the best DLC of the entire series.

 

[Lacrymas]

they were uplifted

Still doesn't justify such measures imho. Then again, don't feel like derailing this thread into a debate about ethics and the notion of bodily integrity. Although now that I think of it, I'm guessing that Lacrymas is probably on my side on this one (a.i. anti-genophage).

I'm actually not. I'm anti how extreme it was. Which isn't anything anyone pointed out. It's obviously bad that it will eventually lead to the extinction of the Krogans, so just modify it in order for them have a more manageable birth rate.

 

[Lemming42]

The thousand eggs fact is what tipped me over the edge and gave me the courage to stop Mordin - it's said earlier, I think by Wrex in ME1, that the genophage makes it so that only one in a thousand eggs hatches. That means Krogan women are capable of having, statistically, one baby a year, making them theoretically only slightly less fertile than humans. They also seem to live way longer, and are presumably fertile for longer than humans.

There's therefore no reason that Tuchanka should be such a shithole and Krogan males should be as pathetic as they are. 1400 years to rebuild, with a stable birthrate by any other species' standards, and they're still just fucking around killing each other!

And the Krogan women - who should be the most fucked up given that they're the ones who are dealing with clutches of unhatched eggs - seem to be the only ones who have their heads screwed on properly. So of course, they're subjugated and sidelined, according to Eve. Eve almost convinced me to let the cure go ahead when she said that the female tribes were united and ready to fight to secure the future, but then I thought: well, you can do that anyway, right now, without risking galactic armageddon. Your population is stable, you're not facing extinction or anything. If you think you can take over Tuchanka, why not do it now? I get that the genophage cure is meant to act as a diplomatic tool for her to use for her political goals, especially leveraging her status as the first fully fertile Krogan, but it's so dumb to risk everything on the off-chance that Eve and Wrex might be able to talk a bunch of blood-rage retards around. Especially since Wrex seems to have ambitions of conquest anyway.

The cure wasn't exactly difficult to make (terrible methods aside, it apparently took one Salarian dude to do all the groundwork and just Mordin to refine it) and Mordin's research presumably exists somewhere. If Eve manages to start a Krogan enlightenment and in a hundred years Krogan society looks completely different, then the genophage cure will still be around. But curing it now, during the time of ME3, with the fate of the Krogan (and therefore potentially the galaxy) resting on Eve managing to do the near-impossible? That's just suicidal, surely.

Also worth pointing out that the only reason Mordin got involved on this, unless I'm mistaken, is that the Krogan slowly naturally adapt to overcome the genophage anyway.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

It's obviously bad that it will eventually lead to the extinction of the Krogans, so just modify it in order for them have a more manageable birth rate.

Eh, I see it as more of an either/or choice. Either the Krogans remain an outsider group and then the genophage can be justified as a means of combatting a potentially destructive 'other' or the Krogans are part of the in-group that the Citadel-based galactic community represents and then such a solution is unethical (since it goes against the universalistic values which the community supposedly upholds and de facto excludes the Krogan from it). Otherwise it's having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's obviously bad that it will eventually lead to the extinction of the Krogans, so just modify it in order for them have a more manageable birth rate.

Eh, I see it as more of an either/or choice. Either the Krogans remain an outsider group and then the genophage can be justified as a means of combatting a potentially destructive 'other' or the Krogans are part of the in-group that the Citadel-based galactic community represents and then such a solution is unethical (since it goes against the universalistic values which the community supposedly upholds and de facto excludes the Krogan from it). Otherwise it's having your cake and eating it too.

I'd argue it is a universalistic value to not allow biological flukes to grant undisputed galactic supremacy to one race. Everyone having stable populations is fine imo. As long as every krogan woman has the ability to birth at least one child, it's fine.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'd argue it is a universalistic value to not allow biological flukes to grant undisputed galactic supremacy to one race. Everyone having stable populations is fine imo. As long as every krogan woman has the ability to birth at least one child, it's fine.

Heavily disagree. Besides the collective trauma that it causes for the Krogans, it basically amounts to them being second class citizens since other species aren't subject to such measures. And it's not like the Krogans themselves don't perceive the double standard, so basically you just have a subdued population that resents the broader community and would return the favor in kind if given the chance (something which one could argue that it justifies the genophage from a purely utilitarian perspective, but in that case full xenocide would be preferable since they remain a subaltern other anyway; curing the genophage on the other hand is the only sensible solution if one subscribes to those galactic values since it morally redeems the broader community by having it be done as a collective effort undertaken by members of several species rather than by the Krogans themselves in the face of galactic adversity).

 

[Lacrymas]

I'd argue it is a universalistic value to not allow biological flukes to grant undisputed galactic supremacy to one race. Everyone having stable populations is fine imo. As long as every krogan woman has the ability to birth at least one child, it's fine.

Heavily disagree. Besides the collective trauma that it causes for the Krogans, it basically amounts to them being second class citizens since other species aren't subject to such measures. And it's not like the Krogans themselves don't perceive the double standard, so basically you just have a subdued population that resents the broader community and would return the favor in kind if given the chance (something which one could argue that it justifies the genophage from a purely utilitarian perspective, but in that case full xenocide would be preferable since they remain a subaltern other anyway; curing the genophage on the other hand is the only sensible solution if one subscribes to those galactic values since it morally redeems the broader community by having it be done as a collective effort undertaken by members of several species rather than by the Krogans themselves in the face of galactic adversity).

But they would be subject to such measures if they had the reproductive capacity of the Krogan. It isn't special treatment, it's a practical necessity, but it wouldn't matter even if it were special treatment. The Krogan achieving galactic domination isn't a theoretical scenario, it literally would've happened had the other races not acted. The problem actually is whether we allow the freedom of one group to threaten the freedom of everyone else. The other alternative would've been complete genocide like you suggest. They could ask the Krogan what they prefer, of course.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

But they would be subject to such measures if they had the reproductive capacity of the Krogan. It isn't special treatment, it's a practical necessity, but it wouldn't matter even if it were special treatment. The Krogan achieving galactic domination isn't a theoretical scenario, it literally would've happened had the other races not acted. The other alternative would've been complete genocide like you suggest. They could ask the Krogan what they prefer, of course.

We don't know if that would apply if a less warlike race had similar birthrates. But even if we are to assume that there'd be no double standard in that regard, it's still a discriminatory policy which draws a clear line between the species which are allowed unlimited reproduction and those that are not. And lets not forget that unlike some kind of demographic control policy (e.g. X number of live children allowed for members of Y species, sterilization for the individual of Y species if number of currently alive sired children surpasses that limit), the genophage is body horror tier in that it results not in less pregnancies, but in less successful pregnancies (ergo Krogran females having to experience repeated stillbirths until they finally sire children).

And to reemphasize, the utilitarian reasoning behind the genophage is sound. But that reasoning leaves the Krogran as a conquered people politically subsumed into the galactic system but socially distinct from the broader galactic community. Naturally Krogran would prefer to be occupied rather than exterminated (vae victis and all that), but either case leaves them as a conquered people who naturally strive for future emancipation and revenge. Although on the other hand, I don't think that the games ever imply that undoing the genophage would be somehow illegal, so theoretically one could say that the galactic attitude in their relationship with the Krogran is one of "let bygones be bygones" which rests on the assumption that the Krogran by themselves are too technologically backwards to be able to engineer such a cure (it'd be interesting to see how that would've changed if such a cure was found preceding the events of ME3 though,* whether they'd allow for the Krogan to implement it or not).

* ME1 one notwithstanding since it wasn't obtained by the broader Krogan community as for a decision in regards to its mass implementation to be brought to the table.

 

[Tyrr]

Nope. People made a whole ass chart for the mission.

"Who is your specialist in the vents?"
'Jacob' is the only right answer.