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Mass Effect Legendary Edition remaster trilogy

Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Which leads me to believe the camera is telling me her body is more important than whatever crap is spewing out her mouth.
she used her body to get both shepard and on a meta level you(the player) to help her
*She* didn't do that, it wasn't she who wrestled control of the camera and showed us her ass. Besides, Shepard might be gay and not interested in her body. This is definitely, absolutely, done for the benefit of a presumably straight male audience, and not some grand vision of her character.
spoiler alert:
the game was developed for and marketed towards straight males. The overwhelming majority of people who played the game are straight males.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,729
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeap, this is definitely a scene where a woman is using her feminine wiles to convince a man to help her -


hahaha, I think it's hilarious, I actually laughed out loud irl when the camera panned to her ass, it's ridiculous.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,739
"It reduces her to an object, how offensive"

Anyone that knows anything about Miranda knows exactly why the shot framing her as a sex object works within the context of the game (and also as fan service but that's beside the point). She's literally designed to be the perfect woman. By her father no less.

That camera shot is deliberately chosen to put a certain idea into the player's mind. An idea which becomes extremely relevant later when Miranda explains to you that she is a test tube baby.

Attacking this deliberate aesthetic choice by saying 'lol just look at porn' is so beneath a person of Sawyer's intelligence that it's actually baffling. (And more than a little disappointing but disappointing his target audience seems to be Sawyer's raison d'etre lately so I guess it's par for the course)
This is a very good take but I think you're giving the writers and directors of ME2 wayy too much credit. This is the same game that tried to justify the shooting mechanics and character creator in-game in the most stupid and lore breaking way possible.
Then again ME2 was the one with the better cinematography out of the whole franchise, so you might be right.
I'd say it's more a dissonance than anything. Her quest is all about how she's a strong, independent woman who was dealt a bad hand by being "designed as the perfect woman" by her father (yikes) and she trying to get away from that and be seen as her own person. All the while the camera is ogling her ass for our benefit. Which is it, game? That is not to say we as individuals consuming this media can't find her sexy or physically attractive, only that the game is telling us two different things about her.
Oh no, my life is so hard because my parents gave me the upper limits of human strength, wealth, and intelligence!
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Yeap, this is definitely a scene where a woman is using her feminine wiles to convince a man to help her -

If it were up to me I'd give an award to whoever did this scene. Yes, it's clearly meant to influence the player's decision. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.
 

KVVRR

Learned
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
652
Oh no, my life is so hard because my parents gave me the upper limits of human strength, wealth, and intelligence!

635982d35c555adc7b68041514c301e6.png
 

ekrolo2

Scholar
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
202
You mean to tell me a femme fatale (as described by Bioware staff themselves) has shots where they use her sex appeal to manipulate Shepard and/or the players? Shocking. Next thing you'll tell me we'll have scenes of the bad guy killing people to show they're evil for the audience/protagonist.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
18,729
Pathfinder: Wrath
If it were up to me I'd give an award to whoever did this scene. Yes, it's clearly meant to influence the player's decision. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.
Then the game thinks the audience won't help a woman in distress without some sort of sexual transaction happening? This is worse, lol.

Again, this is not Miranda's doing, this is specifically the camera. It's not Miranda's choice, so the argument of "SHE is using her body to manipulate Shepard" doesn't hold water.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
14,739
People don't seem to get where "the problem" is. Yes, men are extremely sexualized in media too, the difference is Jacob was never described as designed to have sex appeal in that artbook or whatever, while Miranda was. Men do stuff and have characters while at the same time being sexy/sexualized. Women are sexy first and foremost and are treated as such by the developers themselves, proven by their own words in their own book. I am saying this as a bisexual man, so it isn't like I can't understand the appeal of a sexy woman, it's just really bizarre that a lot of people have this ridiculously exaggerated obsession with "beautiful women in video games/movies" and they "not being allowed in modern media". Not to mention that even conventionally attractive women are seen as "ugly" sometimes on this very forum. I seem to want to say I'm not "defending women's honor", I can live without women in this world so I don't feel the need to give them any special treatment.
Wrong.

It's okay for media to have sexy women. It's okay for characters to exist to titillate the male audience. Just as it's okay for women to masturbate while reading a romance novel they bought in line at the grocery store.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,729
Pathfinder: Wrath
Wrong.

It's okay for media to have sexy women. It's okay for characters to exist to titillate the male audience. Just as it's okay for women to masturbate while reading a romance novel they bought in line at the grocery store.
Yes, all of this is ok. The reaction of some people when the game doesn't is the thing which is at best bizarre, at worst creepy/pathetic.
 

Nano

Arcane
Patron
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4,817
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
It's not Miranda's choice, so the argument of "SHE is using her body to manipulate Shepard" doesn't hold water.
It is her choice to wear a skintight catsuit. Pretty sure she's aware of the reactions that would arouse.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
19,409
Wrong.

It's okay for media to have sexy women. It's okay for characters to exist to titillate the male audience. Just as it's okay for women to masturbate while reading a romance novel they bought in line at the grocery store.
Yes, all of this is ok. The reaction of some people when the game doesn't is the thing which is at best bizarre, at worst creepy/pathetic.
The problem isn't that a game doesn't do it, but that the devs decided to censor an older product that did. ;)
 
Joined
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Codex Year of the Donut
Again, this is not Miranda's doing, this is specifically the camera. It's not Miranda's choice, so the argument of "SHE is using her body to manipulate Shepard" doesn't hold water.
How exactly is a game attempting to sway the player's opinion a bad thing?
It didn't require some long diatribe or cutscene, they just panned the camera. Am I the only one who thinks the person in charge of this deserves praise?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
18,729
Pathfinder: Wrath
The problem isn't that a game doesn't do it, but that the devs decided to censor an older product that did. ;)
Don't be naive. You know how people get when they think all the women in a video game are "ugly". Look at the Outer Worlds. Besides, like I said before, Miranda's ass should stay, that doesn't mean the discussion around it isn't interesting and not worth having.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,739
Wrong.

It's okay for media to have sexy women. It's okay for characters to exist to titillate the male audience. Just as it's okay for women to masturbate while reading a romance novel they bought in line at the grocery store.
Yes, all of this is ok. The reaction of some people when the game doesn't is the thing which is at best bizarre, at worst creepy/pathetic.
Let me make it really simple.

The developers decided these camera angles were more important to fix and blab about during interviews than fixing the ending.

That makes me, someone who was quite motivated to purchase this thing, now unwilling to give them money for it. Maybe the danger-hairs will, but it's clear that the straight male is not their target audience anymore.
 

Lambach

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
13,206
Location
Belgrade, Removekebabland
Shifting the online discourse to Miranda's ass is a 10/10 PR stunt from Bioware. That's how they get 90% of people to argue about it instead of talking about how they stole a bunch of existing mods, presented them as their own work and are now selling that repackaged shit with virtually no other changes for 60 whole Kwanbux.

Well done, BioWhore, your game dev teams may not be worth the oxygen they're breathing anymore, but your corporate strategists/PR people are top-notch. :salute:
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,679
The developers decided these camera angles were more important to fix and blab about during interviews than fixing the ending.

Changing some camera angles is significantly less time-consuming and expensive than it is to write and record additional dialogue and make new animations.
 

Nano

Arcane
Patron
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Messages
4,817
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
Don't be naive. You know how people get when they think all the women in a video game are "ugly". Look at the Outer Worlds. Besides, like I said before, Miranda's ass should stay, that doesn't mean the discussion around it isn't interesting and not worth having.

I want my media to be maximally horny and I'm sick of the puritans working to prevent that being a reality. Simple as that, dude.
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The problem isn't that a game doesn't do it, but that the devs decided to censor an older product that did. ;)
Don't be naive. You know how people get when they think all the women in a video game are "ugly". Look at the Outer Worlds. Besides, like I said before, Miranda's ass should stay, that doesn't mean the discussion around it isn't interesting and not worth having.
It's really only an issue when every single female character is ugly. Look at the Outer Worlds.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,409
The problem isn't that a game doesn't do it, but that the devs decided to censor an older product that did. ;)
Don't be naive. You know how people get when they think all the women in a video game are "ugly". Look at the Outer Worlds. Besides, like I said before, Miranda's ass should stay, that doesn't mean the discussion around it isn't interesting and not worth having.
I don't care how 'people get'. This to me is just an act of censorship which aims to rewrite a cultural product which the devs perceived as being dated. Such rewriting of cultural history sets a dangerous precedent and shouldn't be handwaved away just because the product in question is not socially significant.

The discussion around the inherent biases of a particular cultural work viewed in light of the period during which it had been produced might be interesting and worth having, but the work itself shouldn't be defaced in light of the current epoch's cultural sensibilities.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,729
Pathfinder: Wrath
How exactly is a game attempting to sway the player's opinion a bad thing?
It didn't require some long diatribe or cutscene, they just panned the camera. Am I the only one who thinks the person in charge of this deserves praise?
It's obvious some people have an issue with this and I'm trying to explain why. That's why we are talking about it. There are a bajillion other ways to encourage a player to make a choice, showing random ass in a scene which is supposed to be serious is seen as tacky and tasteless. Which, to be honest, it is. Just like that fem Shep upskirt. It also has to be put in a broader cultural context, this is systemic and examining why is worth it. It's not simply "men find women attractive". Women find men attractive too and incels are all too quick to jump to the conclusion it's all about good looks and genetics. Some men find men attractive too, David Gaider worked for Bioware back then. Yet there's no backlash against the man ass that is on display in the same franchise with the same characters.

I want my media to be maximally horny and I'm sick of the puritans working to prevent that being a reality. Simple as that, dude.
But you and I are an exception and completely outside of the cultural matrix. It's not about us.
 

Keyboard Vomit

Guest
It's okay for media to have sexy women. It's okay for characters to exist to titillate the male audience. Just as it's okay for women to masturbate while reading a romance novel they bought in line at the grocery store.
None of these things are okay, I agree with Lacrymas. All the smartest people agree with us, everyone from Islamic scholars, the puritanical writings, Schopenhauer and the most cutting edge progressive minds of today as well as the majority of rabbinical opinion. Women are suckubi that should be covered up and should not be allowed to mislead men with their wicked bodies. If you do you end up with simping and worse.


Maybe the danger-hairs will, but it's clear that the straight male is not their target audience anymore.
They are just removing haram and making the game halal, it is for your benefit horny gamer dude. Don't follow the secular Jewish advice from Josh Sawyer, porn is evil! Only trust rabbis like me. Books, working out and scholarly studies, not thots and simping, okay?
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,729
Pathfinder: Wrath
It's okay for media to have sexy women. It's okay for characters to exist to titillate the male audience. Just as it's okay for women to masturbate while reading a romance novel they bought in line at the grocery store.
None of these things are okay, I agree with Lacrymas. All the smartest people agree with us, everyone from Islamic scholars, the puritanical writings, Schopenhauer and the most cutting edge progressive minds of today as well as the majority of rabbinical opinion. Women are suckubi that should be covered up and should not be allowed to mislead men with their wicked bodies. If you do you end up with simping and worse.
While this is a joke, it's actually a good point to make and bring up.
 

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