Max Payne 3 - Discuss!

[toro]

Extra Credits hipsters say it's too grimdark http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/hard-boiled

Quite spot on.

 

[Keldryn]

Well, only around 10% of the population in São Paulo live in favelas.....and even less have helicopters and go to that kind of hi-class parties. They showed the really poor and really rich, but never the rest of the city, were everyone else lives. A shootout in an avenue like Paulista, in the central area of the city or in our massive subway stations would be really cool, but instead they keep going to abandoned bus depots and such...so apart from the favelas they didn't really use the city, which is a real shame.

True enough. I was working on one level that would have taken place in a more "normal" part of the city, but I guess that got axed after I left. It was a challenge to try and keep the player confined to an area without making it look really obvious.

 

[Menckenstein]

Well, only around 10% of the population in São Paulo live in favelas.....and even less have helicopters and go to that kind of hi-class parties. They showed the really poor and really rich, but never the rest of the city, were everyone else lives. A shootout in an avenue like Paulista, in the central area of the city or in our massive subway stations would be really cool, but instead they keep going to abandoned bus depots and such...so apart from the favelas they didn't really use the city, which is a real shame.

True enough. I was working on one level that would have taken place in a more "normal" part of the city, but I guess that got axed after I left. It was a challenge to try and keep the player confined to an area without making it look really obvious.

How many times did you guys have to watch City of God and Tropa de Elite during development?

 

[felipepepe]

Well, only around 10% of the population in São Paulo live in favelas.....and even less have helicopters and go to that kind of hi-class parties. They showed the really poor and really rich, but never the rest of the city, were everyone else lives. A shootout in an avenue like Paulista, in the central area of the city or in our massive subway stations would be really cool, but instead they keep going to abandoned bus depots and such...so apart from the favelas they didn't really use the city, which is a real shame.

True enough. I was working on one level that would have taken place in a more "normal" part of the city, but I guess that got axed after I left. It was a challenge to try and keep the player confined to an area without making it look really obvious.

I can imagine, São Paulo streets are very open... And I don't know on what other areas you worked on, but the favelas and especially the city skyline are perfect! It's very weird to see the same view on my PC and on my window!

And were the writters for the BR lines locals? I honestly think the BR lines are way better written and more natural than the rest...

 

[Twinkle]

Well, only around 10% of the population in São Paulo live in favelas.....and even less have helicopters and go to that kind of hi-class parties. They showed the really poor and really rich, but never the rest of the city, were everyone else lives. A shootout in an avenue like Paulista, in the central area of the city or in our massive subway stations would be really cool, but instead they keep going to abandoned bus depots and such...so apart from the favelas they didn't really use the city, which is a real shame.

True enough. I was working on one level that would have taken place in a more "normal" part of the city, but I guess that got axed after I left. It was a challenge to try and keep the player confined to an area without making it look really obvious.

Interesting. Was it supposed to be more open-worldish when you worked on it?

 

[MetalCraze]

I finished in two days. Circa 10 hours. It's polished, but I still think is a lousy 3rd person shooter.

Considering that it has 10 minutes of shooting per 50 minutes of cutscenes - the game is only 2 hours long?

 

[RK47]

Looks like worth a rental at least.

 

[Menckenstein]

felipepepe what does "bo-ha" mean? all the favela NPCs yell it one time or another

 

[felipepepe]

felipepepe what does "bo-ha" mean? all the favela NPCs yell it one time or another

You probably mean "porra", no? It means "cum", we use it the same way americans say "fuck".

I gotta say that the BR swearing alone made my purchase worthwhile, it's too damn funny to me...

 

[Menckenstein]

felipepepe what does "bo-ha" mean? all the favela NPCs yell it one time or another

You probably mean "porra", no? It means "cum", we use it the same way americans say "fuck".

I gotta say that the BR swearing alone made my purchase worthwhile, it's too damn funny to me...

RIP Claudio

 

[Whisper]

felipepepe

Brazil, really looks like this? Gangs and police waging wars in favela's? Them attacking tourist all together?


I played though Max payne 3 and my impression is that San Paulo (and Brazil) is one of disgusting and worst places to live. Those favelas, especialy. Why nothing is done to provide people in this Democratic counties with place to live better then where only dogs and other animals can live?

 

[Oriebam]

and were you serious about 10% of SP population being in favelas

I sure hope that was just some sort of misnomer or they are not the shithole kind of favela, because that's p. fucked up

 

[Whisper]

Also short youtube video, on favela in Sao Paulo, featured on screenshot (Max Payne 3 takes place in one of those)






p.s. Millions of people live in "houses" made from garbage in supposed to be "Democratic" (i though in Democracy millions shouldnt live like animals?) Brazil.

But lets bomb Syria instead.

 

[Oriebam]

aren't you one of the edgy "I fap to murder" posters? pls stay in character


while I very much agree this place is a shithole, the stuff about that amount of people living in favelas is probably wrong...

I mean, I know of government-built housing spaces that look relatively comfy(read, "for poorfags") and are still called favelas

then there are places that can't be called favelas(because of the way houses are) and are still complete shit : no sanitation(or sanitation is complete shit, we call it "esgoto a céu aberto", or both) crime takeover, shit is guaranteed to break down completely at a later point in time(say, when it rains a little hard) etc and then there are some regional problematic areas as well

now this stuff about brazil and that video game is getting boring
let's talk about syria and democracy instead

 

[Whisper]

while I very much agree this place is a shithole, the stuff about that amount of people living in favelas is probably wrong...

11.400.000 people live in favelas in Brazil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela


I wonder why EU and USA ignores the fact that 11.400.000 people in supposed-to-be democratic countries live in "houses" made of junk. How about Human Rights? Or it ok with Human Rights to let millions of people to live in garbage?

Buf ofc it is Syria that should be bombed.

 

[Oriebam]

*reads article* I stand corrected, I guess, depending on how it should be counted


I meant recent government housing earlier, btw

 

[felipepepe]

felipepepe

Brazil, really looks like this? Gangs and police waging wars in favela's? Them attacking tourist all together?

I played though Max payne 3 and my impression is that San Paulo (and Brazil) is one of disgusting and worst places to live. Those favelas, especialy. Why nothing is done to provide people in this Democratic counties with place to live better then where only dogs and other animals can live?

Is New York like that, gangs waging wars in graveyards, subways infested by mobs, not a single honest cop and drugdealers every corner? It's a FPS game man, of course they have to take everything up to 11 and make bad guys come out everywhere....

Look, the favelas are exactly like in the game, at least the biuldings and such. But as I said earlier, they are the poorest part of the city, where only about 10% of the population lives....and they are mostly honest folk with honest jobs, trying to make a living. Those massive wars of cops against drugdealers only happened once in Rio de Janeiro, in 2010, and ever since things are much quieter there.

The rest of the people live in regular buildings and houses, and that was exactly my complaint about the game, they only show the favelas and the rich guys place; you don't see a single level that uses any other area of the city...probably because it would be hard to justify Max going around Paulista avenue shooting people without being arrested or overunned by countless civilians. Unlike New York we don't have alleyways or walkable biulding roofs for the action to happen away from the civilians. That's why they used that shitty "bus depot", even though we don't have those here, it was just a horrible excuse to get Max out of the streets and into closed, chest-high walled eviroments...

And except for some other huge cities, the whole rest of Brazil doesn't even have favelas.... So yeah, saying that my whole country is only suitable for dogs and animals to live, based just on what a FPS showed you is VERY ridiculous....thank god I don't use Postal 2 to judge the US...

EDIT: This is Paulista Avenue:

This is what they should have go for if they wanted to use São Paulo. When Max Payne 3 was annouced they said they chose São Paulo because it was a very different city from NY, but still noir in it's own way. I agree, São Paulo is dark and cold, it's a grey city, the land of the drizzle. Motherfucking Nick Cave came to live here saying São Paulo was "dangerous and fascinating, an inspiration for his songs", and yet all that Rockstar does is show fucking favelas... they should've just use Rio de Janeiro and be done with it.

 

[Tehdagah]

I wonder why EU and USA ignores the fact that 11.400.000 people in supposed-to-be democratic countries live in "houses" made of junk. How about Human Rights? Or it ok with Human Rights to let millions of people to live in garbage?

Most of these houses aren't made of junk.

They are poor and dirty, but not made of junk.

But yeah it sucks.

 

[Whisper]

And except for some other huge cities, the whole rest of Brazil doesn't even have favelas....

Good point. "Except" cities where 84.35% of the population of Brazil lives.


p.s. If i was Max, i would gun not goons in favela, but those rich on yacht party. One of main reasons there are so many poor people in Brazil is because few rich collect most wealth.

 

[Jick Magger]

I beat it on Tuesday, and I've got to say they got alot right, but also plenty wrong. The shooting and general gameplay's probably the best aspect of it. Combat is very smooth and free-flowing (although some levels were a bit too big and made using cover a bit too alluring). If there's one thing Rockstar has consistently nailed; it's making killing people as satisfying as hell. Shoot people in the legs and watch them flail about in pain, shoot them in the head and watch them crumple to the ground quickly and quietly, shoot him in the throat (my personal favourite) and watch them fall backwards while clawing at their neck while gurgling up blood, shit's great. Having been a big Metal Gear Solid fan (yes, even MGS4) I didn't have much of an issue with the cutscenes, though the random word emphasise got a little bit silly near the end (kind of reminded me of a Frank Miller comic) and the filtering fit Max Payne's drug-addled and hungover view of the events around him.

One problem I had was that although the game had plenty of noir aspects, it seemed to be ultimately trying to be an action flick instead. The prime example of this for me was the level in which Max tries to infiltrate the Gang HQ bloody Sam Fisher style. Suddenly the game pulled a Kane and Lynch on me as we're torn from the high rises and hot nightclubs of Urban Brazil and popped straight in the bloody jungle. It felt jarring and out of place.

 

[Oriebam]

You can't turn the word emphasizing off? fuck

cities where 84.35% of the population of Brazil lives.

?

p.s. If i was Max, i would gun not goons in favela, but those rich on yacht party. One of main reasons there are so many poor people in Brazil is because few rich collect most wealth.

because drug lords aren't insanely rich as well and criminals(which we have lots of and you can't even keep minors locked up here) gonna stop being criminals the moment rich assholes die amirite


where is that pic with the poor kids fucking around in the pools of a drug dealer mansion in the 2010 invasion... a mansion that contained justin bieber paintings, for some reason

 

[Keldryn]

How many times did you guys have to watch City of God and Tropa de Elite during development?

I lost count.

There were TVs throughout the office that had several movies playing on a loop throughout the day, City of God being one of them. The TV series City of Men was also in the rotation.

I can imagine, São Paulo streets are very open... And I don't know on what other areas you worked on, but the favelas and especially the city skyline are perfect! It's very weird to see the same view on my PC and on my window!

Well, the artists get the credit for making it look like that! The level designers did build the initial "grey box" prototype layouts, but those designs ended up being very different in the final product. I think that the art team eventually re-designed all of the gameplay spaces while the designers focused on scripting, but that was after I left.

I was a level designer and scripter. Most of my time was spent on the two favela levels, but none of my actual work would have been used in the final product (3 years passed between my leaving and the game's release). I did the original grey box for the second favela level, and a few other grey box levels that got the axe before moving on to full production.

And were the writters for the BR lines locals? I honestly think the BR lines are way better written and more natural than the rest...

Probably. I can't say with any certainty, as I wasn't there when the actual dialogue writing was done.

Interesting. Was it supposed to be more open-worldish when you worked on it?

The design tightened up considerably as development progressed. That's all I can say about that.

I'm pretty sure this was one of the reference images among the hundreds that I acquired while working on my grey box level! It looks very familiar to me.

That's why they used that shitty "bus depot", even though we don't have those here, it was just a horrible excuse to get Max out of the streets and into closed, chest-high walled eviroments...

City streets are really hard to do if you're not doing an open-world game and especially if you're using a checkpointing system where you can't go backwards. I tried to make it work in one grey box level that I did (in a more suburban area). The player could move through alleys and use obstacles in the alleys to climb over fences into yards. The yards all had high, gated fences so that you could see out into the streets (where enemies could appear from), but you couldn't actually get out into the streets. I had no idea if there were neighborhoods in São Paulo like that, but I got the idea from neighborhoods in Cape Town (South Africa) that I had driven through on a business trip several years ago. There were things in the back yards that you could use to climb back into the alleyways, or sometimes shootdodging out a back window or balcony back into the alleyways. I also had a couple of storm drains that the player needed to go through to cross over to the other side of the street.

Yeah, it's definitely contrived, but the player's movement has to be confined in some way. I wanted to avoid blocking off streets with police vans and that sort of crap.

 

[Surf Solar]

Where exactly is health regen in the game? It doesn't do any health regen for me.

And I like the game so far. The shooting feels fun, you don't have to use the cover system at all. It's challenging too, died often times. Level design is excellent, much love to the detail. I don't know if you played a different Max Payne 2 than me, there were lots of cutscenes there too, directly in the levels aswell. I like 'em. They have a nice pace and never feel too long. Shotguns felt useless in Max Payne 2 aswell, I never used them in my new playthrough just some days ago.

All in all, typical "review" of a game from a newly joined new guy who wants to score some KKK by using lots of swearwords.

 

[felipepepe]

- meh looking game, fucking consoles

I liked the graphics of the game. Sure, it aint groundbreaking stuff, but it's good, and that 30 GB download shows they had a nice care to make the textures look good on the PC...

And those animations are really great. This game deserves a award just for how they handle guns & holsters...

 

[Menckenstein]

Thanks for the Xbox easy mode review, Shoman