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KickStarter Mechajammer (formerly Copper Dreams) - cyberpunk RPG from Whalenought Studios
- Thread starter Infinitron
- Start date
gaussgunner
Arcane
Maybe they should try getting a job.
What kind of retarded shit take is this? Trying to start up your own business is a million times harder than getting and keeping a job. It's better to try and pursue your dreams and fail to reach them than to be a wage slave somewhere and never even try.
Super later couple of replies, but hey... Two days ago somebody left a comment on my 'Mechajammer - Ending' video on Youtube, saying "I'm positive you're the only person to ever beat this game" which prompted PTSD-like flashbacks. (it's not true by the way; a few others at least have completed it)
1) Many positive reviews were written after, at most, a few hours of playtime; these should always be disregarded. Some were even written by people who hadn't completed the tutorial section, but somehow marvelled at the character creation.
2) Some reviewers are trying to be nice and encouraging towards the developers. This one for example: "I was really hyped for this game, but I refunded it after about 3 hours of playtime. Nonetheless, I marked this review as a recommendation, since I definetely want this game to succeed and I'll gladly purchase it again as soon as the devs fix the major flaws that it has."
3) Others yet are saying the game could become good, some way down the line, provided the devs support it seriously—which they are most definitely not doing.
4) Generally speaking, people being kinda dumb.
As I said earlier in this thread: if someone doesn't believe me, search the internet for actual info about the game. There's a handful of videos on Youtube, of people playing through the tutorial and a few steps further. And that's it, there's nothing else. In fact there is not a single walkthrough, and that alone is insane since there's a walkthrough or guide for nearly every game under the sun, no matter how bad.
I mean, think about that. Outside of the official, barely-frequented Discord, to this day the only information and gameplay footage that goes beyond the tutorial and to the actual end of the game are found here in this thread and on my channel. And I pushed to the end of Mechajammer out of sheer anger and spite, and because I questionned if the game could actually be finished.
So I peeked at the very nearly dead Steam forums, and there's one guy by the pseudonym of Yarow12 who, playing on the last patch, posted a few things about a few builds he's tried. Here follow a few excerpts;
– "The resurrection build is broken. Rez'd enemies don't deal or receive damage."
– "Throwing Knives have an 80% chance to phase through solid objects and land blocks away (new bug). This combined with them not being visible on the ground most of the time (old bug worsened) makes the Throwing Skill unusable unless you're drowning in wondoons."
– "Repair started off working fine for me and, a session or two later, ended up bugged. Out of 5 tries, it failed to do anything (and wasted my repair kits) 4 times. [...] Tried it 3-4 more times on 2-3 items between 2 sessions. It ain't workin', y'all. edit: Skills work fine as long as companions aren't on-screen and nearby when you use them. otherwise, the stat roll will be chosen between the ones who have that skill."
– "Companions; If you give them items, expect those items to disappear."
– "Drones; Save before you attempt to create a Drone. And make sure your companions are off-screen somewhere. The no-roll bug kicks in just like with hacking and burglary."
– "Drones; Gun Drones actually can shoot (after you drop ammo on their character sprite and see the "Thanks" popup), but nothing comes out no matter how many times they roll sucessfully."
– "[...] Aldo's been stuck at 35% Life for who knows how long. More importantly, he tends to drop dead unexpectedly during combat."
On the GoG forums, another guy by the pseudonym of cxmtl adds a few things;
– "Autohealing and companions self-healing mechanics and using medkit decisions in general (when they do it and above what thresholds) is a complete mystery to me and it seems sooo random."
– "Having equipped an excellent quality weapon with lotsa pips e.g. +7 or +9 etc, you just insta-stomp on enemies when you run them over with the car and you rarely just knock them out. Mmm, nice erm... "feature"? Much Carmageddon."
– "I just made contact with a new gang (Hive), talked with the boss, all good, exited their base, then reloaded a few minutes later - they now have the status suddenly set as Hostile on the map now and turn instantly aggro whenever I step back into their compound. What gives?" (Note from me, Dhaze: I was assured on the Mechajammer Discord channel that this was a possible intended behavior, i.e. any faction can turn hostile at any moment before you've secure their loyalty, even mere seconds after they've tasked you with helping them)
– "Whenever the above-mentioned rioters spawn, somehow my party instantly scatters in a matter of seconds. They just leave for good and they don't appear in the party menu anymore either."
– "The ammo stacks duplication / disappearing act is seriously Fubar, people. I found out the best way to protect it in my inventory is to never exceed one full stack (I distribute parts of a stack to my party members whenever I get close to 90 units in a stack.)"
– "Created a drone from a pistol, but it can't shoot it (just use it as a melee which defeats the purpose...)"
– "Thrown knives just fly off into infinity most of the time when they miss the target. There's little chance in getting back them expensive new types of throwing knives, which makes this build pretty broken as well. And the new items added - purposeless."
– "Resurrection build is broken, effectively. Them resurrects do not attack and can't receive damage either..."
– "Repair & hacking works, but just keep your party off screen so that they don't try to use their skills instead (this breaks both types of attempts as you basically do not roll the dice)."
The whole game is like that. Play for a couple hours, and it all seems terribly unpolished but still kind of ok; play for more than that, and the cracks start to appear, and from that point on they never cease widening. I swear, it fascinates me. Almost every single aspect of this game is either bugged, or implemented in the most maddening, inconceivable manner, or is outright non-functionnal. In a way it might possibly remain the most memorable game I'll ever play—for all the wrong reasons.
I don't see them fixing it, ever. I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong, but there's more chance of me winning the lottery without buying a ticket.
But more, I played through the mess that was Kingmaker on release day and for the months following, and that game had a very solid foundation which isn't exactly the case for Mechajammer. If, by magic, every single bug in this game was fixed, there would still be a heap of fundamental problems remaining. So the game would become playable, but still there wouldn't be much substance to it.
The overall ambiance is intriguing and well-aided by the music, but the story amounts to absolutely nothing. There's no character development whatsoever, nor indeed much character characterisation. There's no actual dialogue, just a bit of exposition spouted at intervals. You can invest points into wielding many different weapons, but they all act pretty much the same and so all those weapon masteries are redundant. The combat and exploration systems are barebones. Traversal is a chore. The AI is barely existant. Companions have nothing to say beyond their first line upon being recruited. Factions, whether allied or not, neither add nor take away from the game; rather I'd say they are just sort of there, filling some areas of the game.
It's just such a profoundly weird game, and such a shame. Mechanically, I don't think there's anything really interesting about the game. There's no depth there, and it isn't worth digging. But there's a nice atmosphere, a palpable sense of mystery and grittiness with which the game unfortunately does nothing.
Truly, instead of flip-flopping around for years on end, changing everything about the game every other week, I would have loved for the devs to settle down on Mechajammer has it now early on in the development cycle, then embrace the atmosphere with all heart and go from there. Keep the puzzles as they are now since they're engaging and interesting, and make the game revolve almost entirely around them (after all, past a certain point, it already feels like a detective game). Simultaneously, relegate the entirety of combat to the sidelines, as something you have to do only when all else fails during your investigations.
Creep around from shadow to shadow; find clues; unravel the mystery of the Quarrymen and the scheming corporations; infiltrate the Faith; don't fight unless you're cornered, and even then try to run away more than anything else, jumping into a car and crashing you way through the city, then bribing cops to forget about you until the heat dies down; forge alliances with factions not to be able to hire some mindless goons to fight alongside you but rather to access information or guarded areas; drink the atmosphere and let the superb soundtrack take you in. Now that would have been a game and there's the inkling of it all, somewhere deep within Mechajammer—but it's only an inkling.
It shouldn't have been the mess it is. It could have been an excellent cyber-noir detective game.
1) Many positive reviews were written after, at most, a few hours of playtime; these should always be disregarded. Some were even written by people who hadn't completed the tutorial section, but somehow marvelled at the character creation.
2) Some reviewers are trying to be nice and encouraging towards the developers. This one for example: "I was really hyped for this game, but I refunded it after about 3 hours of playtime. Nonetheless, I marked this review as a recommendation, since I definetely want this game to succeed and I'll gladly purchase it again as soon as the devs fix the major flaws that it has."
3) Others yet are saying the game could become good, some way down the line, provided the devs support it seriously—which they are most definitely not doing.
4) Generally speaking, people being kinda dumb.
As I said earlier in this thread: if someone doesn't believe me, search the internet for actual info about the game. There's a handful of videos on Youtube, of people playing through the tutorial and a few steps further. And that's it, there's nothing else. In fact there is not a single walkthrough, and that alone is insane since there's a walkthrough or guide for nearly every game under the sun, no matter how bad.
I mean, think about that. Outside of the official, barely-frequented Discord, to this day the only information and gameplay footage that goes beyond the tutorial and to the actual end of the game are found here in this thread and on my channel. And I pushed to the end of Mechajammer out of sheer anger and spite, and because I questionned if the game could actually be finished.
So I peeked at the very nearly dead Steam forums, and there's one guy by the pseudonym of Yarow12 who, playing on the last patch, posted a few things about a few builds he's tried. Here follow a few excerpts;
– "The resurrection build is broken. Rez'd enemies don't deal or receive damage."
– "Throwing Knives have an 80% chance to phase through solid objects and land blocks away (new bug). This combined with them not being visible on the ground most of the time (old bug worsened) makes the Throwing Skill unusable unless you're drowning in wondoons."
– "Repair started off working fine for me and, a session or two later, ended up bugged. Out of 5 tries, it failed to do anything (and wasted my repair kits) 4 times. [...] Tried it 3-4 more times on 2-3 items between 2 sessions. It ain't workin', y'all. edit: Skills work fine as long as companions aren't on-screen and nearby when you use them. otherwise, the stat roll will be chosen between the ones who have that skill."
– "Companions; If you give them items, expect those items to disappear."
– "Drones; Save before you attempt to create a Drone. And make sure your companions are off-screen somewhere. The no-roll bug kicks in just like with hacking and burglary."
– "Drones; Gun Drones actually can shoot (after you drop ammo on their character sprite and see the "Thanks" popup), but nothing comes out no matter how many times they roll sucessfully."
– "[...] Aldo's been stuck at 35% Life for who knows how long. More importantly, he tends to drop dead unexpectedly during combat."
On the GoG forums, another guy by the pseudonym of cxmtl adds a few things;
– "Autohealing and companions self-healing mechanics and using medkit decisions in general (when they do it and above what thresholds) is a complete mystery to me and it seems sooo random."
– "Having equipped an excellent quality weapon with lotsa pips e.g. +7 or +9 etc, you just insta-stomp on enemies when you run them over with the car and you rarely just knock them out. Mmm, nice erm... "feature"? Much Carmageddon."
– "I just made contact with a new gang (Hive), talked with the boss, all good, exited their base, then reloaded a few minutes later - they now have the status suddenly set as Hostile on the map now and turn instantly aggro whenever I step back into their compound. What gives?" (Note from me, Dhaze: I was assured on the Mechajammer Discord channel that this was a possible intended behavior, i.e. any faction can turn hostile at any moment before you've secure their loyalty, even mere seconds after they've tasked you with helping them)
– "Whenever the above-mentioned rioters spawn, somehow my party instantly scatters in a matter of seconds. They just leave for good and they don't appear in the party menu anymore either."
– "The ammo stacks duplication / disappearing act is seriously Fubar, people. I found out the best way to protect it in my inventory is to never exceed one full stack (I distribute parts of a stack to my party members whenever I get close to 90 units in a stack.)"
– "Created a drone from a pistol, but it can't shoot it (just use it as a melee which defeats the purpose...)"
– "Thrown knives just fly off into infinity most of the time when they miss the target. There's little chance in getting back them expensive new types of throwing knives, which makes this build pretty broken as well. And the new items added - purposeless."
– "Resurrection build is broken, effectively. Them resurrects do not attack and can't receive damage either..."
– "Repair & hacking works, but just keep your party off screen so that they don't try to use their skills instead (this breaks both types of attempts as you basically do not roll the dice)."
The whole game is like that. Play for a couple hours, and it all seems terribly unpolished but still kind of ok; play for more than that, and the cracks start to appear, and from that point on they never cease widening. I swear, it fascinates me. Almost every single aspect of this game is either bugged, or implemented in the most maddening, inconceivable manner, or is outright non-functionnal. In a way it might possibly remain the most memorable game I'll ever play—for all the wrong reasons.
I don't see them fixing it, ever. I certainly wouldn't mind being proven wrong, but there's more chance of me winning the lottery without buying a ticket.
But more, I played through the mess that was Kingmaker on release day and for the months following, and that game had a very solid foundation which isn't exactly the case for Mechajammer. If, by magic, every single bug in this game was fixed, there would still be a heap of fundamental problems remaining. So the game would become playable, but still there wouldn't be much substance to it.
The overall ambiance is intriguing and well-aided by the music, but the story amounts to absolutely nothing. There's no character development whatsoever, nor indeed much character characterisation. There's no actual dialogue, just a bit of exposition spouted at intervals. You can invest points into wielding many different weapons, but they all act pretty much the same and so all those weapon masteries are redundant. The combat and exploration systems are barebones. Traversal is a chore. The AI is barely existant. Companions have nothing to say beyond their first line upon being recruited. Factions, whether allied or not, neither add nor take away from the game; rather I'd say they are just sort of there, filling some areas of the game.
It's just such a profoundly weird game, and such a shame. Mechanically, I don't think there's anything really interesting about the game. There's no depth there, and it isn't worth digging. But there's a nice atmosphere, a palpable sense of mystery and grittiness with which the game unfortunately does nothing.
Truly, instead of flip-flopping around for years on end, changing everything about the game every other week, I would have loved for the devs to settle down on Mechajammer has it now early on in the development cycle, then embrace the atmosphere with all heart and go from there. Keep the puzzles as they are now since they're engaging and interesting, and make the game revolve almost entirely around them (after all, past a certain point, it already feels like a detective game). Simultaneously, relegate the entirety of combat to the sidelines, as something you have to do only when all else fails during your investigations.
Creep around from shadow to shadow; find clues; unravel the mystery of the Quarrymen and the scheming corporations; infiltrate the Faith; don't fight unless you're cornered, and even then try to run away more than anything else, jumping into a car and crashing you way through the city, then bribing cops to forget about you until the heat dies down; forge alliances with factions not to be able to hire some mindless goons to fight alongside you but rather to access information or guarded areas; drink the atmosphere and let the superb soundtrack take you in. Now that would have been a game and there's the inkling of it all, somewhere deep within Mechajammer—but it's only an inkling.
It shouldn't have been the mess it is. It could have been an excellent cyber-noir detective game.
ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB
Arcane
Wut. I honestly thought they had day jobs and worked on the game at nights or on weekends.
Imagine investing everything you are worth into the development of a video game, only for it fail miserably. Very sad.
Yeah real shame; Gave it a fair shake and it seemed like it could be fun, but it kept crashing all over the place. I guess somewhere allong the way they lost control.
Camel
Scholar
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2021
- Messages
- 2,082
Damn, that's really sad. Spending years of your life and even selling the house.
rubinstein
Educated
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2022
- Messages
- 142
harsh reminder that not everyone is destined for greatness. this should be an important lesson for folks who still daydream of pursuing their own big thing instead of rotting in comfortable 9 to 5 matrix.
That's the thing though, for the innumerous criticisms I can raise against their game, the Mechajammer devs are nonetheless not talentless.
What they are—at least in the case of Mechajammer; don't know about Serpent In The Staglands—is aimless and in dire need of the video game's equivalent of an editor. They badly, badly needed someone to come in at some point in the development, to slap them lovingly across the face and order them to stop changing everything every two weeks. They needed to pick a lane and stick to it.
This is some artwork from circa 2017-2018 I believe:
Certainly it won't be to everyone's taste but I think that is some damn good art. It's basically Shinkawa's The Boss crossed with some of Escape From New-York's aesthetics, and a healthy touch of the artist's own style. I have no idea who this Orchid is, but pretty please I want to play as her.
No, they're focusless, and given the atrocious state of the game I don't even want to know what their coding looks like, but they're definitely not talentless. Which makes it all the worse, in a way.
True Ukrainian
Arcane
That's the thing though, for the innumerous criticisms I can raise against their game, the Mechajammer devs are nonetheless not talentless.
What they are—at least in the case of Mechajammer; don't know about Serpent In The Staglands—is aimless and in dire need of the video game's equivalent of an editor. They badly, badly needed someone to come in at some point in the development, to slap them lovingly across the face and order them to stop changing everything every two weeks. They needed to pick a lane and stick to it.
This is some artwork from circa 2017-2018 I believe:
Certainly it won't be to everyone's taste but I think that is some damn good art. It's basically Shinkawa's The Boss crossed with some of Escape From New-York's aesthetics, and a healthy touch of the artist's own style. I have no idea who this Orchid is, but pretty please I want to play as her.
No, they're focusless, and given the atrocious state of the game I don't even want to know what their coding looks like, but they're definitely not talentless. Which makes it all the worse, in a way.
You had actually met Orchid in your playthrough. She's a named enemy. The fact that you can't remember her shows how much her final design deviates from the initial draft.
As far as Serpent goes, like Mechajammer it has a very good concept but is burdened (to a lesser degree) by bad design and bad ruleset. The devs thought that spells that do 1d1 damage are somehow a good idea. Or grenades that can passively buff allies while exploding enemies aren't overpowered. And there's a spell that gives you an infinite number of those grenades.
Oh believe me, I remember; Orchid's the agent on the southern portion of Dome Six Island, adjacent to the lighthouse in which I found the lifeless body of Mara, Sullivan's hire. Orchid and three goons and I were not only standing in a zone of light, but were even rythmically swept by the lighthouse's projector, yet for some insane reason the game still considered four of us as hidden in shadows.
I remember remarking upon her name whilst playing, and I know exactly in which video she appears (she's the biggest character sprite on screen):
I can even tell you she dropped a piece of information I had already previously obtained elsewhere, and at that moment I wondered if it was a bug (like each Copper Face in the underground labs dropping Three Hand Harry's Key upon death, which simply has to be a huge bug), or if it was intended as some form or redundancy.
Trust me, every excrutiating detail of my playthrough is seared into my very soul. Ask me in fifty years about previous girlfriends and studies and work and vacations and sport and all that, and I'll have forgotten much about all of it; but whisper the name 'Mechajammer' into my old self's ear and watch as I instantly recoil and shudder whilst clutching at my heart.
No, what I meant was that I would have liked to play (or meet) Orchid as she was in that artwork. She looks really cool and interesting.
About the game's development I had asked a few questions on the Mechajammer Discord channel—asked to whom I believe is Hannah of Whalenought—but unfortunately she never answered me. Perhaps she saw my playthrough and comments on this thread and thought, "I'm not answering that fucker!" But given how the devs have seemingly renounced Mechajammer since the March update, most likely the whole debacle is not something they're keen to discuss, which I can understand easily enough.
I remember remarking upon her name whilst playing, and I know exactly in which video she appears (she's the biggest character sprite on screen):
I can even tell you she dropped a piece of information I had already previously obtained elsewhere, and at that moment I wondered if it was a bug (like each Copper Face in the underground labs dropping Three Hand Harry's Key upon death, which simply has to be a huge bug), or if it was intended as some form or redundancy.
Trust me, every excrutiating detail of my playthrough is seared into my very soul. Ask me in fifty years about previous girlfriends and studies and work and vacations and sport and all that, and I'll have forgotten much about all of it; but whisper the name 'Mechajammer' into my old self's ear and watch as I instantly recoil and shudder whilst clutching at my heart.
No, what I meant was that I would have liked to play (or meet) Orchid as she was in that artwork. She looks really cool and interesting.
About the game's development I had asked a few questions on the Mechajammer Discord channel—asked to whom I believe is Hannah of Whalenought—but unfortunately she never answered me. Perhaps she saw my playthrough and comments on this thread and thought, "I'm not answering that fucker!" But given how the devs have seemingly renounced Mechajammer since the March update, most likely the whole debacle is not something they're keen to discuss, which I can understand easily enough.
rubinstein
Educated
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2022
- Messages
- 142
i admit i reflected on this and even edited my post to delete talentless, but you still were fast enough to quote its earlier version.
what i meant is: you can try your best and still fail miserably... while making some questionable decisions that can ruin you.
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
When was the last time you sold your house, started a business, and had your business fail completely and you wasted years of your life on ashes?
Just curious since you seem to want to offer your perspective on this topic.
ArchAngel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2015
- Messages
- 20,041
I think that happens to most successful businessmen, the difference between them and others is that they don't quit after that but try again until they succeed.
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
Do they just sell their other house to try again?
Think I might know how "successful businessmen" become successful...
Inherit it? Be born a trust fund kid?
People need to find capital somewhere and these young devs certainly aren't the first to do something like remortgage their home to do so.
gaussgunner
Arcane
Shit socialists say. "If only they could afford to do their creative work full-time..." No, it doesn't work that way. You don't develop the habits required to complete a huge software project by simply doing whatever you want all the time; just the opposite as we've witnessed in this thread. If you can't work a job for money and make a game in your spare time, you don't have what it takes and no amount of money will ever change that.
Yes, that's why people who start businesses up and look for investors also have investors say that if they can't go to it full time, they aren't interested in investing. There are multiple ways of starting a business up, with varying degrees of risk, but any business venture necessitates risk.
Shit socialists say is keep working on the government dime and laugh at people with entrepreneurial spirit. Y'know, like rusty the weirdly anti-capitalist American.
I mean, you realize that you're saying that choosing to invest their own money rather than continuing to ask others is somehow socialist because words don't mean anything or something. That's some big brain energy right there.
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gaussgunner
Arcane
Investors aren't interested if you aren't already running your business full time. Banks will give you a business loan but they want collateral, not a share of your vaporware corp.
I kind of did that. I didn't buy a house, but I could have bought one with the money I spent on the game (and I'm not even counting the thousands of hours I spent).
The idea that I could have thrown all of this time and money into a blackhole is indeed terrifying, but I feel a lot more productive not thinking about it.
You also quickly reach the point of "sunken costs" justifying to keep throwing time and money at the problem, because you spent too much already to turn back.
The thing is, you don't know whether it was worth it until you try. It's probably better not to go all-in, but the time and costs involved are so high, that it can be hard to avoid doing it.
Indeed, going at it full time is pretty standard. As for banks, I've been there, and yes, as the owner of a small company, I had to back my loan with my own personnal property. Most of my friends who started their own companis have gone full-time long before earning a cent.
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