Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

[None]

Btw D-Walker sucks, something tells me it's unfinished and rushed due to Konami pressure. Otherwise I can't explain the uselessness.

It offers high mobility while being relatively stealthy at the same time. Watch some speedrun videos and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Blaine]

Btw D-Walker sucks, something tells me it's unfinished and rushed due to Konami pressure. Otherwise I can't explain the uselessness.

It's about as fast as D-Horse, is more maneuverable, is much more resistant to fall damage, has interchangeable manipulators, and also has interchangeable heads (one of which allows you to detect enemies hundreds of meters away). You can't "side hide" on D-Walker, though, and that's a big deal. It exchanges inconspicuousness for, well, everything else.

I think the real problem with D-Walker for most people is that they wish to use the tools it offers as though they aren't aboard a large and somewhat noisy (not hugely noisy, but also not silent; slower speeds are quieter, though) robot, but in fact they are. It also is generally a better fit for non-ghost approaches, and is fun to play around with.

I agree though, if you're ghostmaxxing it tends to be more of a liability than an asset, and encourages risky behavior, unlike the horse. I had some success with it, but you must know the mission well.

 

[Üstad]

Btw D-Walker sucks, something tells me it's unfinished and rushed due to Konami pressure. Otherwise I can't explain the uselessness.

It's about as fast as D-Horse, is more maneuverable, is much more resistant to fall damage, has interchangeable manipulators, and also has interchangeable heads (one of which allows you to detect enemies hundreds of meters away). You can't "side hide" on D-Walker, though, and that's a big deal. It exchanges inconspicuousness for, well, everything else.

I think the real problem with D-Walker for most people is that they wish to use the tools it offers as though they aren't aboard a large and somewhat noisy (not hugely noisy, but also not silent; slower speeds are quieter, though) robot, but in fact they are. It also is generally a better fit for non-ghost approaches, and is fun to play around with.

I agree though, if you're ghostmaxxing it tends to be more of a liability than an asset, and encourages risky behavior, unlike the horse. I had some success with it, but you must know the mission well.

I'm at mission 31 realized the rest of the missions are just older missions harder version. I'm saying this I think the search mode for d-walker was avaible only like 6 missions ago. It's acquired late, becomes useful very late and expensive. I would tolerate it maybe chapter 2 was actually finished, as I wouldd have more reasons to use it.

By the way the game shouldn't have been an open world game, it should have been like MGS 3 with fixed amount of points to invest in things like intel (tagging enemies should have been unlocked at higher level if at all), better camo, combat team to ambush enemy equipment, Snake's combat skills (reflex should be unlocked at higher level) etc. This would make the game more replayable and fixed amount of points would make the gameplay better and discourage grinding. Boss battles felt too rushed and boring. I really wish there was a sniper duel in Afghanistan like in MGS 3, except without thermal googles cheesing, atleast there would be fun and memorable boss battle in the game. Konami really ruined a potential masterpiece.

 

[†††]

 

[Silva]

By the way the game shouldn't have been an open world game, it should have been like MGS 3 with fixed amount of points to invest in things like intel (tagging enemies should have been unlocked at higher level if at all), better camo, combat team to ambush enemy equipment, Snake's combat skills (reflex should be unlocked at higher level) etc. This would make the game more replayable and fixed amount of points would make the gameplay better and discourage grinding. Boss battles felt too rushed and boring. I really wish there was a sniper duel in Afghanistan like in MGS 3, except without thermal googles cheesing, atleast there would be fun and memorable boss battle in the game. Konami really ruined a potential masterpiece.

I disagree soundly. The open-world is what made the game so refreshing and worth playing, with it's tight simulation mechanisms that put the average AAA open-world to shame.

The problem of Phantom Pain is not it's premise, but the fact it was never finished and the story being complete ass.

 

[Üstad]

By the way the game shouldn't have been an open world game, it should have been like MGS 3 with fixed amount of points to invest in things like intel (tagging enemies should have been unlocked at higher level if at all), better camo, combat team to ambush enemy equipment, Snake's combat skills (reflex should be unlocked at higher level) etc. This would make the game more replayable and fixed amount of points would make the gameplay better and discourage grinding. Boss battles felt too rushed and boring. I really wish there was a sniper duel in Afghanistan like in MGS 3, except without thermal googles cheesing, atleast there would be fun and memorable boss battle in the game. Konami really ruined a potential masterpiece.

I disagree soundly. The open-world is what made the game so refreshing and worth playing, with it's tight simulation mechanisms that put the average AAA open-world to shame.

The problem of Phantom Pain is not it's premise, but the fact it was never finished and the story being complete ass.

When open world meets with East Asian devs you get a grindfest, MGSV is all about fultoning it's tedious and boring. Also I would rather have a finished linear action/stealth game rather than unfinished open world game. The open world didn't even mostly contribute enough to different tactical approaches. Most places were open enviroment and straightforward, I wish there were more urbanish places and encourage different tactical approaches thanks to the open world design. In MGS 3 there were shit tons of tunnels fit for crawling, encouraging you to use different methods despite the linear progression. MGSV despite being an open world design doesn't has this.

 

[kites]

I like “open” worlds because they give an easy sense of scope, but they often are an excuse for copy+paste or procedural generation. I think it worked here for me because most of the time you could just airlift into the zones you needed to be in and pick your point of entry.. the Infinite Heaven mod also let you up things like NPC commuting across the map which let it feel more busy and lived-in

 

[Machocruz]

All the real action happened in the mission areas anyway. They were large enough to accomodate numerous infil- and exfiltration points. I don't think the connective tissue in between amounted to much, but that's a personal taste. I'm sure there are many who enjoyed driving trucks around taking out outposts, etc.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

For me, the (almost) empty and relatively safe areas you need to traverse to reach the missions are nice to build tension due to the sense of expectation they provide. They improve the pacing by adding breath moments.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

In MGS 3 there were shit tons of tunnels fit for crawling, encouraging you to use different methods despite the linear progression. MGSV despite being an open world design doesn't has this.

Mgsv has plenty of alternate routing and all that yeehaw.

 

[Silva]

When open world meets with East Asian devs you get a grindfest, MGSV is all about fultoning it's tedious and boring. Also I would rather have a finished linear action/stealth game rather than unfinished open world game. The open world didn't even mostly contribute enough to different tactical approaches. Most places were open enviroment and straightforward, I wish there were more urbanish places and encourage different tactical approaches thanks to the open world design. In MGS 3 there were shit tons of tunnels fit for crawling, encouraging you to use different methods despite the linear progression. MGSV despite being an open world design doesn't has this.

I never felt the need to grind-fulton enemies since they were always conveniently placed on my way during missions. But I agree the mechanic gets old by midgame. They should've created some unlockable tech allowing you to just mark enemies for your support personel to hijack offscreen (with different success chances based on tech level or something).

About different ways to execute missions, again I must disagree. Always found the missions pretty sandboxy and accomodating of various routes/tactics.

All the real action happened in the mission areas anyway. They were large enough to accomodate numerous infil- and exfiltration points. I don't think the connective tissue in between amounted to much, but that's a personal taste. I'm sure there are many who enjoyed driving trucks around taking out outposts, etc.

I see where you're coming from, but then this connective tissue is the most alive I've seen in an open-world game. You got different kind of patrols in them that communicate with the outposts to trigger different alert states and ask for reinforcements, the outposts themselves communicate and reinforce each other, choppers around outposts go out of their way to pursue you, etc. And you can interact with all this by cutting comms, creating diversionary tactics, hitting them by day or night which changes the "board state", etc. Contrast this to say, Elden Ring where the connective tissue doesn't even feel alive or connected to anything.

Besides, as Nifft Batuff said above, this connective tissue makes for a good relief moment (specially with the 80s music on the background) as well as building tension before key missions, besides being just the right size to never feel boring to traverse. It's the kind of "fruitful void" in design that don't serve gameplay directly but enriches the experience.

Ultimately, I'm not sure Phantom Pain is a better stealth game than Chaos Theory or Snake Eater or Thief 2, but I'm 100% sure it's the entry the genre needed to refresh/reinvent itself. At this point I played this genre so much that if a new Splinter Cell comes out following the same old formula I'll probably pass it as I just did with the last Hitman game. I have The Dark Mod if I want the old formula, if you'll invest billions on a new game at least make it really new.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I see where you're coming from, but then this connective tissue is the most alive I've seen in an open-world game. You got different kind of patrols in them that communicate with the outposts to trigger different alert states and ask for reinforcements, the outposts themselves communicate and reinforce each other, choppers around outposts go out of their way to pursue you, etc. And you can interact with all this by cutting comms, creating diversionary tactics, hitting them by day or night which changes the "board state", etc. Contrast this to say, Elden Ring where the connective tissue doesn't even feel alive or connected to anything

I think my biggest problem with the AO zones is that they're 100% hostile to you. Everyone you meet is either a prisoner to be extracted or an enemy to be knocked out and then extracted. Couple of friendlies would have broken that monotony somewhat.

 

[Machocruz]

Ultimately, I'm not sure Phantom Pain is a better stealth game than Chaos Theory or Snake Eater or Thief 2,

Nothing is better than Thief 1 or 2 when it comes to pure, concentrated stealth design imo, but in the military-themed category, it's the only game giving CT some comp. CT edges it out for me because I love it's shadowy world and grounded, if boilerplate, spy fiction.

If there is one thing you can't take away from Kojima, it's that he's forward thinking when it comes to this medium. There is a state-of-the-art, avant garde feel to his games when they drop, even if only superficial. Forward thinking for most others is 'how can we "honor the past" (i.e. exploit fan nostalgia, not have to come up with something new)while dumbing everything down for today's lowest common denominator audience.'

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Very cool weapon's pack
Apparently this mod has been 2 years in the making and cost the author nearly 500 dollars

 

[Pound Meat]

 

[Priest]

https://youtu.be/O1grcfYk-qg

I was just wondering if anyone can explain this? I know PythonSelkan get bad rep in some circles but they raised a genuine question here. In fact, it's nothing new and people were discussing it back in the day but I've never seen a satisfying answer. Another plot hole? If so, Kojima should get called out for his bad writing more often

 

[Stavrophore]

Very cool weapon's pack
Apparently this mod has been 2 years in the making and cost the author nearly 500 dollars

Cool, but a waste for a game with such arcadey shooting mechanics.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Cool, but a waste for a game with such arcadey shooting mechanics.

You must learn the way of the LARPer

 

[Egosphere]

https://youtu.be/O1grcfYk-qg

I was just wondering if anyone can explain this? I know PythonSelkan get bad rep in some circles but they raised a genuine question here. In fact, it's nothing new and people were discussing it back in the day but I've never seen a satisfying answer. Another plot hole? If so, Kojima should get called out for his bad writing more often

Don't tell me you take any of Kojima's writing seriously

 

[Priest]

https://youtu.be/O1grcfYk-qg

I was just wondering if anyone can explain this? I know PythonSelkan get bad rep in some circles but they raised a genuine question here. In fact, it's nothing new and people were discussing it back in the day but I've never seen a satisfying answer. Another plot hole? If so, Kojima should get called out for his bad writing more often

Don't tell me you take any of Kojima's writing seriously

When it's not about diarrhea or lolis, I do

 

[Ryzer]

The best game ever made in term of pure gameplay MGSV Ground Zeroes just released 10 years ago.

If only they released the toolkit along with it, imagine what could have been done with it. Such a missed opportunity, it truly is a Phantom Pain.

 

[Ezekiel]

The best game ever made in term of pure gameplay MGSV Ground Zeroes just released 10 years ago.

If only they released the toolkit along with it, imagine what could have been done with it. Such a missed opportunity, it truly is a Phantom Pain.

Why is Ground Zeroes mechanically better than The Phantom Pain?

Eh, liked MGS better when the action buttons were on the face of the controller rather than on the triggers and bumpers, with camera accommodating your thumbs. The peak was MGS3, where you could pan the cam and lock it to the outermost area by pressing the R3 button and where you could strafe with L1. With MGS4, the series became too much about staring at Snake's shoulder. In MGS4 and 5, you can't even shoot anymore without that over-the-shoulder perspective, because CQC is also attached to the shoot button. MGS3 was also right before the fucking stupid crouch entered Metal Gear. Snake looked much cooler creeping around in the more upright position. Realistically, crouching does not quiet footsteps. It wasn't a thing in any of the old action movies these games were inspired by. Arnold Schwarzenegger wasn't practically kissing the ground with his butt sticking out like some little bitch as he infiltrated. Players praise this shit in the Snake Eater remake. Homogeneity, yielding to the expectations of players, degraded Metal Gear Solid.

Peace Walker introduced the missions and base management, really putting the final nail in the coffin. With Snake entering and leaving these areas and micromanaging a whole base, the sense of adventure that the series once had, that survival element of being dropped in and using what you found in the environment, vanished. Edit: Well, Portable Ops started it, Peace Walker expanded upon it. Never played Portable Ops, so I forget its existence.

Doubt I will ever play through MGS5 again. Can't remember the story. Didn't care. Boring for retreading the past, too long, too fragmented by the missions and audio tapes.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

but the rest is so damn retarded. if the most beautiful woman ever had a dick, that's still a man.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Why is Ground Zeroes mechanically better than The Phantom Pain?

it might been the only one he played of 5
could also be that he's taking into account the fact that Camp Omega's level design is better than any location in TPP

Eh, liked MGS better when the action buttons were on the face of the controller rather than on the triggers and bumpers, with camera accommodating your thumbs.

see
the problem here is that you played 5 on a controller and not on kb+m

also, you do know you can remap controller buttons?

In MGS4 and 5, you can't even shoot anymore without that over-the-shoulder perspective

don't know about 4, but 5 has an FP shooting mode

Realistically, crouching does not quiet footsteps.

stealth crouching is not about realism
it's a mechanical trade-off of higher speed and mobility for lower visibility and noise

Peace Walker introduced the missions and base management, really putting the final nail in the coffin. With Snake entering and leaving these areas and micromanaging a whole base, the sense of adventure that the series once had, that survival element of being dropped in and using what you found in the environment, vanished.

the base managment system is engaging and honestly I think it was a real shame it wasn't even more of a fundamental part TPP gameplay experience
and yeah sure it's a different feeling from older MGS games, but that's what they were going for anyway and it works
Big Boss in PW and 5 is the leader of a ridiculously powerful international mercenary company and the games reflect that well in gameplay through its logistics management

 

[Ezekiel]

I played MGS5 with a mouse and keyboard, never with a controller. I play any third person shooter with a mouse and keyboard when it plays better, RE4 being the only exception because I only have to use one thumb. MGS is still blander like this.

MGS5 should mot have been about Big Boss again.

MGS4 also has first person view. Sucks that you can't shoot anymore with neither restrictive perspective. Guy can't even shoot from the hip.

May respond to the rest of your post later. On work break. In a hurry.