Metroidvanias and RPGs - different genres, similar "game feel"

[Grauken]

the wall jump mechanics made me question what I was doing with my life

It's only needed in that one section to get out, after that, you never really needed the wall jump again. But yeah, the implementation in Super Metroid was shit

 

[Serus]

FFS. I played Wolfenstein 3D bacl in the times on the 286. A lot of my friends played it too.

Catacomb Abyss was earlier and it already had everything that was in Wolf3D.
Hovertank was earlier as well.
Hell, even Total Eclipse had shooting sections with mummies and it was real 3D. Wrong genre, though.

Some FPS had this feeling. Some action games too.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/cadaver-the-immortal-hillsfar.112434/
Concept of dungeon and its exploration is used in many genres.

Similar here, 286 as well but i played not the "base" game but the "expansion", Spear of Destiny.

You are correct about different games using this kind of gameplay as -vanias too.

 

[randir14]

Someone's developing their own "Metroid 64" for PC
https://www.pcgamer.com/metroid-64-fan-project-is-coming-to-pc/

 

[JarlFrank]

There's also AM2R (Another Metroid 2 Remake), a remake of Metroid 2 for PC. I heard it's pretty good but it's not easy to find because Nintendo DMCA'd it due to being little bitches when it comes to fan games.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, that should be amended ASAP.

 

[ghostdog]

There's also AM2R (Another Metroid 2 Remake), a remake of Metroid 2 for PC. I heard it's pretty good but it's not easy to find because Nintendo DMCA'd it due to being little bitches when it comes to fan games.

Did they really DMCA'd it? It's very easy to find:
https://am2r-another-metroid-2-remake.en.uptodown.com/windows

 

[Darth Slaughter]

I'm wondering.. are games like 00's Prince of Persias a 3D metroidvanias?

Warrior within can fit if you take into account that it has a interconnected backtrackable world/levels/labirynth. It has a metroidvania feel because you can only reach some parts after you get the specific power. But sands of time and two thrones are stage locked games. No backtrack is permited. Only moving forward.

Interesting, most castlevanias that came before SOTN are not metroidvanias.

One point I was thinking about the backtrackble interconnected world is, in order to have a metroidvania feel, they must not be an open world. That's why arkhan asylum is a metroidvania, but arkham city and arkham knight dilutes that feeling. Top down Zelda games, that have those powerup requirements but the open world is to big. Dark souls and eldenring. Dark souls has a kind of metroidvania feeling, but elden ring is to vast.

 

[Grauken]

There's also AM2R (Another Metroid 2 Remake), a remake of Metroid 2 for PC. I heard it's pretty good but it's not easy to find because Nintendo DMCA'd it due to being little bitches when it comes to fan games.

Did they really DMCA'd it? It's very easy to find:
https://am2r-another-metroid-2-remake.en.uptodown.com/windows

They DMCA'd it the moment it was published, so the dev stopped working on it but the community reverse-engineered the codebase (if I remember correctly) and keeps working on the game

 

[Grauken]

Top down Zelda games, that have those powerup requirements but the open world is to big.

One major distinction between Zelda games (at least the top-down ones) and metroidvania is the clear delineation between dungeons and overworld and how most items are dungeon specific. In metroidvania games, the whole word is one dungeon and in the best cases abilities are useful all over the place

 

[Sykar]

There's also AM2R (Another Metroid 2 Remake), a remake of Metroid 2 for PC. I heard it's pretty good but it's not easy to find because Nintendo DMCA'd it due to being little bitches when it comes to fan games.

I am glad I DLed it before Ninturd could gag that poor guy.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I still think mixing two games names to name a genre is one of the worst thing fanboys could come up with and I'm not a big fan of the genre but if some experts would share their favorite castleroids, I'll probably try one or two, probably not for long unless it's very good but I'll try.

Also, I'd prefer RPG elements, as strong as possible and/or something amazing, like your favorite one gameplay wise, perfectly playable with a keyboard as well as I don't use a gamepad.

I've noted some recommendations like unepic and these ones from Grauken I think but they can't all be that good

Hollow Knight
Astalon
Axiom Verge
Kunai
Yoku's Island Express
A Robot Named Fight
Environmental Station Alpha
Hero Core
An Untitled Story

 

[JarlFrank]

Salt & Sanctuary is basically Dark Souls in 2D, with proper RPG mechanics (levelups, skill tree, etc), and it plays well enough with mouse and keyboard. Mouse for aiming and attacking, keyboard for movement. Much, MUCH smoother than Dark Souls' M&KB controls.

Vigil is also strong on the RPG elements, with a traditional XP system and a unique skill tree for each weapon, but it gets a bit easy towards the end. Keyboard only, no mouse, but also controls really well.

I haven't played Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night yet but I heard that this one is also strong on the RPG elements.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Salt & Sanctuary is basically Dark Souls in 2D, with proper RPG mechanics (levelups, skill tree, etc), and it plays well enough with mouse and keyboard. Mouse for aiming and attacking, keyboard for movement. Much, MUCH smoother than Dark Souls' M&KB controls.

Vigil is also strong on the RPG elements, with a traditional XP system and a unique skill tree for each weapon, but it gets a bit easy towards the end. Keyboard only, no mouse, but also controls really well.

I haven't played Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night yet but I heard that this one is also strong on the RPG elements.

Bloodstained, what was I saying about castleroids = jrpg, this is the perfect example, I'm not sure about this one.

Vigil, what the fuck, is it another girl knight? Nope, not buying that either.

Salt & Sanctuary, nothing to say, I like the name and it looks alright, I might go for this one.

Thanks for the recommendations.

 

[Viata]

The last metroidvania I played that I really liked was Blasphemous. Loved how falling into "endless pits" killed you until you got an ability for surviving the fall. Great art too.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I've noticed Infernax and Dead Cells which seem quite interesting, Infernax visuals are more appealing than Dead cells pastel colours but the latter seems quite popular and regularly updated.

Also, I've read Salt & Sanctuary commands and hitboxes are quite janky and not in the player's favor.




Anyone played Infernax or Dead Cells?

 

[Viata]

Dead Cells

Come on, if even this is metroidvania, this genre means nothing at this point.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Come on, if even this is metroidvania, this genre means nothing at this point.

It is said it has castleroids elements, it's good enough for me, it's not like I have a castleroid fetish or something...

 

[JarlFrank]

Come on, if even this is metroidvania, this genre means nothing at this point.

It is said it has castleroids elements, it's good enough for me, it's not like I have a castleroid fetish or something...

It has procedural generation tho.

And Metroidvanias live off their level design, it's their most important element. Proc gen doesn't work for this genre.

 

[Darth Canoli]

It has procedural generation tho.

And Metroidvanias live off their level design, it's their most important element. Proc gen doesn't work for this genre.

I picked Infernax anyway, it's quite good, A med fan vibe and classic story, Ghouls'n Ghosts everywhere, interesting quests, a day and night cycle with different enemies roamins during the night and different encounters, giant bosses...

So far so good, turned the music off though, I always hated 8-bit era music noise.

 

[Viata]

I always hated 8-bit era music noise

What a sad life.

 

[jungl]

procedural generation is not always bad. I would say dead cells is slightly more fun game then infernax. Infernax has some fun moments but ultimately feels inferior to castlevania 1,2 and gameboy castlevania. It takes some inspiration from zelda 2 enemies and it sucks. Infernax is a mish mash of those old games and the final product is meh.

I would play spelunky 2 its not a metroidvania but is honestly the king of this genre of games. Great local coop and online coop. New salt game was released today definitely going play that with my friend at some point. 2d platformer or isometric games are arguably the best coop games lot better coop then divinity original shit and the likes.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

There's also AM2R (Another Metroid 2 Remake), a remake of Metroid 2 for PC. I heard it's pretty good but it's not easy to find because Nintendo DMCA'd it due to being little bitches when it comes to fan games.

I am glad I DLed it before Ninturd could gag that poor guy.

It's still fairly easy to find. There's even some updates. You must find the 1.1 on your own but it's very easy.

https://github.com/AM2R-Community-Developers/AM2RLauncher/releases

Salt & Sanctuary is basically Dark Souls in 2D, with proper RPG mechanics (levelups, skill tree, etc), and it plays well enough with mouse and keyboard. Mouse for aiming and attacking, keyboard for movement. Much, MUCH smoother than Dark Souls' M&KB controls.

Salt and sacrifice, the sequel, was released recently on EGS, but I'll wait for a steam version.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The last metroidvania I played that I really liked was Blasphemous. Loved how falling into "endless pits" killed you until you got an ability for surviving the fall. Great art too.

Felt more like a 2D Souls game than Metroidvania to me. I don't recall there being any areas that are inaccessible until you got new abilities.

 

[Viata]

I don't recall there being any areas that are inaccessible until you got new abilities.

There is a whole area you can only pass if you are able to survive that gas or whatever it was. Which requires a item for that. Same for that ability to see red floating blocks or whatever.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

No, you're wrong, it's very specifically about what SotN was doing; it's why SotN gets referred to as the first Metroidvania as opposed to the older games SotN was building on. You didn't need a new term for what Metroid was doing because there was already a term...the game is just an Action Adventure Platformer. Having interconnected stages is a normal aspect of Action Adventure games that goes back to Adventure on the Atari...which itself is playing off older Text Adventure games. You had Adventure in 1980, at the beginning of 1986 Nintendo releases The Legend of Zelda, and then in the summer of that same year they'd come out with a Platformer variant on Action Adventure with Metroid. The thing that set SotN apart is it was a JRPG variant of the old Action Adventure Platformer.

No idea where you get this from, but that's just false. I've been on the net since 1997 and since I encountered the term around 2005 and onwards it was always used as a genre description for games that are like Super Metroid and SotN, never specifically for games that are just like SotN and its RPG elements. You're flat out wrong there

As for why the term was only coined after SotN appeared has due to with the specifity of what Metroid and later SotN were doing compared to similiar but not same 2d action adventures, which is gating content of an open map by abilities. That's what makes them different from other 2d action adventures and once there were more games than just Metroid that did it the term stuck around and since SotN was the second big success to do it, they stuck Metroid and Castlevania together

You're just wrong. The term was created specifically in reference to the post Symphony of the Night Castlevania games which had the Acton Adventure style interconnected environments of Zelda and Metroid, they also got called Castleroids, and functionally being side scrolling action JRPGs on top of the action adventure elements was a huge aspect of these post-SotN Castlevania games. The term basically just means SotN-like, and to be like SotN you also need the RPG stuff. You remove the RPG stuff and you've just got a Castlevania that's a normal Action Adventure game.

Having interconnected environments and gated areas is a normal aspect of action adventures game, it's not something special Metroid did, it's just the default of action adventures games and is in the first action adventure game Adventure.

I've been on the Internet even before 1997, not like it matters since Metroidvania wasn't a term being used back then.