Microsoft Flight Simulator

[Burning Bridges]

it just felt like I was playing google maps with a modified zoom level and some sound effects.

Well, the software that was released last summer was basically that: a Bing visualization plus old Microsoft flight simulator components that had been ported, apparently with a lot of performance issues. Plus a layer with feature data that covers the whole Earth. And realistic clouds.

It's not surprising that you would feel bored by finding a geodata flight simulator with "wind and engine sounds" and a ATC with repeating lines and 3 voices around the whole world.

However, it could also be said that this is basically a glimpse of the future of flight sims. Asobo has for the first time provided the infrastructure to allow people to see the entire world with airplanes. People may realize the lack of quality in many areas but may not realize the incredibly quantity on offer. This is such a significant step that other vendors have already announced they are not even going to try it.

Sims with hand generated worlds will go nowhere and bore the shit out of me because I constantly fly out of the map after less than 10 minutes. Here for example is the glorious DCS Normandy map that is sold for 50$. A fucking joke.

So people keep dismissing Asobos flight simulator, and there are reasons for that, but do not acknowledge the advancements that come with Asobos world simulator.

Now I come to the situation with airplanes. The whole problem is that Asobo had to released way too early, and that they are not good at making airplanes.

The release date last year was a shock because people had expected another 2-3 years or so. If PMDG goes from announcement of their 737 to release in 24 months, it sounds strange that Asobo did the same for the entire sim in 12.

Maybe that's the problem. The sim itself is only a fraction of what is needed and provides only basic things.

And Asobo is particularly bad at making planes. They were of course forced to ship them with their sim, so they hired sound engineers to record realistic sounds and shipped the sim with some of the most disappointing planes in the history of flight sim. They also completely failed with their Airbus and Boeing offerings which are nothing short of an embarassment.

But as I wrote. Once I had the first plane that actually feels complete, the whole situation changed for me. Provided that there will be a whole ecosystem with good planes, people will gradually forget how bland the initial release was. Of course that is still out, but it is at least looking likely.

 

[anvi]

Yep the technology is amazing and can change gaming. Straight flight sims were never my thing anyway, except an old one with an addon that let you make your own planes. But flying a jet with bombs and missiles and stuff... I love that. To me the problem with flight sims is just game design. The combat flight sims either take themselves super seriously and usually suffer because of it, not to mention limit their audience and therefore budget. Or they are dumbass arcade games where you have infinite missiles to shoot the swarms of enemies. I don't get why gaming has to be so retarded. There was a 90s flight sim where you were a mercenary fighter pilot and earned money and could upgrade your plane and stuff, it was really popular, fun ideas like that are rare now. Gunship 2000 was my game, basic flight sim but not too arcadey, you could easily get shot down. But the gameplay was so interesting, you got medals and promotions and later become a wing commander of your own squadron and you can upgrade / give medals to your team. And you could give orders to the guys in combat. So it was like an RPG/RTS element inside the game which let you control your squad and build them up over time, all while doing combat flight sim missions. They were doing that in 1991!!!! The world of gaming bites now.

But yeah the tech could save us. The ArmA games have procedural generation of land outside of the hand made maps. It wasn't very good because it just generated land with no trees or objects or anything but at least it's better than shitty CoD/Battlefield type games that yell at you to return to the combat area because you flew a plane for 3 seconds. But if devs end up with endless photorealistic landscapes they can copy paste into their game, then maybe we could get some new flight sims that focus on realism, combat, fun, new ideas, etc. I'm fabulously optimistic

 

[downwardspiral]

Because flight sim is not for fun. Fun is a side product.
Just joking.

Well. I get what you are saying. The genre evolved alot since 90s.
It became more nerdy and armchair pilot. But realism do generally increased because of that attitude. Even if it has some negative side.
If not because that attitude, it will sink to arcade level pretty quickly.

There are dynamic campaign tools in DCS. If you need some campaign to play.
And ofc dynamic campaign in BMS.

And there are economy mod for civilian flying sim to give you some goals to grind.
You grind money to upgrade your plane.
If RPG stat progression is your thing.

I generally think flying sim is a very casual experience, including combat flying sim.
Most people are very chill and friendly.
Not much get gud elitism going on.
Many of the players aren't even gamers, they don't play video games much other than flying occasionally.
It is really not an exciting experience but more of a relaxing one.
Most of them are much more chill and casual than average codexer discussing about RPGs.

Where games like warthunder is a different story. Everyone play 24/7 extremely serious.
world of tank is even more serious than warthunder.
And RTS rank community, super serious.
I used to play them in 90s, I am too old and lazy for that hardcore experience now.

It is something I notice, the more arcade games tend to be more serious and less casual.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Imo there is a lot of psychology involved.

People usually make sure that their sim simulates absolutely every switch in the cockpit and that the product is certfied by professional pilots to be 1000% accurate, and then they fly on autopilot and never use the majority of the functions. For example the 737 has a radio console in the middle and I really never use it. Maybe some time in the future, but probably not even in this sim. But if it wasn't there I could whine and moan that the Zibo is arcade.

This is a problem for both addon makers and users. People demand much more than they need but immediately and at bargain prices. But it makes development longer and products more expensive, and then people already demand something else. The developers are cynical and the users impotent. So no one is ever going to be happy.

I can just say one thing, the sims of the future will be very expensive. The PMDG 737 for MSFS is going to cost around 180$. The 70$ for the sim is but a joke in comparison for what the aircraft are gonna cost.

And about dynamic campaigns and economic modes, wouldn't we all love that. But people who make sims are not gamers, that is both a good and a bad thing. So I don't even hope that cargo and actual animated passengers crews are ever going to be made. The only guy who wanted to try that (Deadstick) failed miserably and has become a meme. He never released more than an obstacle course.

On the other hand, at least I can have a moving copilot now in MSFS. That's cool but if I could also see cocaine bricks on the backseat and animated hispanic women, I woukld feel completely immersed. If if if ..

 

[downwardspiral]

People who laugh at the price tag of railroad train game have no idea.

People making sim aren't gamer, it is really a good and bad thing.
In a way I am glad they are not gamer. So many gaming convention,logics and culture don't apply to them.
One possible negative thing is that price thing, the sense of price tag change when people stop treating it as games.
It became more of a hobby. Like buying navigraph or many other types of mundane service just for playing games.

Though, most of those things are more of a buy only the parts you need things.
Everyone has their favorite planes. And mostly going to just buy that few one.
I think unless one has extreme Gear acquisition syndrome. The spending will be much better than gacha or even typical PVP online games today.
Probably more spent on the hardware. Like VR, custom cockpit and such.

 

[spectre]

Where games like warthunder is a different story. Everyone play 24/7 extremely serious.
world of tank is even more serious than warthunder.
And RTS rank community, super serious.
I used to play them in 90s, I am too old and lazy for that hardcore experience now.

I haven't played WT in ages, but last time I did, the further you stray from arcade mode the more relaxed it gets.
Racking up kills with unlimited reloads and fuel certainly appeals to the more twitchy crowd, but they usually don't have the attention span
to handle landing, takeoff then spending some time getting to the combat area. And if they have to repeat this several times during a session,
they usually drop out. To me, this sort of downtime gives you time to get more chillax, do some banter, etc.
Overall, makes for a better flying experience, at least the way I'd like to have it.

People usually make sure that their sim simulates absolutely every switch in the cockpit and that the product is certfied by professional pilots to be 1000% accurate, and then they fly on autopilot and never use the majority of the functions. For example the 737 has a radio console in the middle and I really never use it. Maybe some time in the future, but probably not even in this sim. But if it wasn't there I could whine and moan that the Zibo is arcade.

Ultimately, it's about selling that illusion, that you totally could operate this machine if you were in a position to do so.
And being able to finger each and every switch is an important part of this.
On the flip side, a lot of the operating of said machinery is tedious and repetitive, so people take shortcuts where they can.

The other side of sims is about delivering the sandbox. Once you're past mastering the machine, it's up to you to decide where to take it.
I think combat sim developers actually have it easier, cause they get to assume a lot about what the player wants to be doing, and they can get away with stuff by framing the whole thing in a mission structure.
Not so easy with civilian aircraft. Some people want to do a flyby above their real-life home, others want to crash land into specific buildings, others get off by larping lufthansa pilots, etc.

 

[downwardspiral]

True, the sim mode in WT was more chill.

I played WT when my IL-2 sim group was getting smaller.
So people decide to migrate to WT for more MP action.
Then... years later most people migrate back to IL-2.

I think mindset is different.

In IL-2 sim group, people are more willing to cooperate and planning tactics， like wingman coverage.
1 vs 1 I am not good against the top ACE in my sim group, he is really something else, a beast.
But with my close buddy 2 vs 2, I can at least chase him away. And killing him is not my mission goal.


In arcade group people care more about personal kill ratio and glory not the mission goal.
Like when we played IL-2 we have clear mission set up for both sides, not just kill ratio.

The more arcade community tend to treat it more like a gladiator game instead of an operation.
Not many arcade players want to fly Anti ground mission. And just be a workhorse transporting bombs in air space where our side have air superiority. Not to mention most of them never learn how to drop bombs correctly in a combat flight sim.

They want to fight in a fair gladiator style battle.
Where all the bomber will fly into enemy air space without much air superiority.

And it usually get very serious because all the personal kill ratio rush.

And WOT, I was playing it years ago, participating some regional clan wars.
Our clan was doing pretty well. I actually spend more time on doing team training in WOT than my flight sim mission group. Because people treat WOT clan war as a E-sport thing.
So I participating those team drills and got selected to fight the clan battle.
It was very tiring. Not chill, not fun, so serious and tiring.
Reminds me my RTS MP days. But I found RTS PVP more fun.
And I quit WOT because our clan leader was corrupt and stole some of the rewards that is supposed to give people who have participated clan war and won. So basically human drama.
And honestly WOT is a shitty arcade tank game, but there isn't many 3D tank porn back then.

Arcade game tend to be
1. personal glory and kill ratio
2. E-sport
Both are much more blood boiling

More over.
Even in single player games , arcade games tend to be more serious.
There is also one aspect I am suspecting.
That is in arcade game it is often treated as game.
Like in games like megaman or mario kart , if you can't beat the single player mode.
People will say "get gud" and think the purpose of a single player game is to challenge difficulty.
And if you lower the difficulty, people tend to think it is some sort of dishonor.

But in a more simulation attitude gaming community, it is usually up to player to decide how much realism he want in a single player mode. Not many will tell you to get gud if you want to turn some simulation option off in a SP game.
I don't really think there is that much of "seriousness" in sim community compare to arcade gaming community.
Because usually community understand many players just want to chill and relax, not get gud or treat it like a competition or some kinds of self challenging prestigious gamer honor all the time.

Essentially, sim community actually respect casual players more.
And by turning the game into a more arcade game, it will ironically increase the gamer culture and result a more serious attitude and remove that chill.

 

[Burning Bridges]

PMDG DC-6 for MSFS coming in June, and you can already watch it in action too:

 

[Burning Bridges]

Today Just Flight has released the PA-28R Turbo Arrow

A pretty nonsensical addon at first glance, but in fact it makes a lot of difference. It flies higher and faster and everyone who ever struggled with an Arrow in the mountains should see the improvement,

Also a very fair upgrade price. I pay only 12.90€ since I own the natural aspirated Arrow.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Infinitron]

 

[randir14]

I reinstalled it yesterday after not playing since release, and immediately noticed my city and surrounding areas have been updated. Places up in the mountains that were previously just textures on the terrain are now fully modeled. Even a water park near my house looks almost completely accurate.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Depends on the region, so far there have been updates for USA, Japan, UK, France and Scandinavia.

Next will be GER/AUT/SUI

 

[Burning Bridges]

The DC-6B by PMDG will be released tomorrow and it looks spectacular



But the assholes haven't announced the price so I guess it will be ridiculous (my guess something like 119$)

 

[Data4]

The DC-6B by PMDG will be released tomorrow and it looks spectacular



But the assholes haven't announced the price so I guess it will be ridiculous (my guess something like 119$)

The few PMDG planes I've played around with were really well done. Very detailed and comprehensive. The polish was second to none. However, the developers are so far up their own asses, they're busting through their own skull caps. I'd never give them a dime.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Yeah I have seen that already. In their forum everyone must sign posts with their real name otherwise they will just delete them, and seems to be suffering from Stockholm syndrome only waiting for their chance to give fellatio to the company.

They also don't allow any discussion of prices so I expect tomorrow the shit will hit the fan on the Microsoft forums where people seriously expect the plane to cost 50$ or less

I think, or rather I hope they will be in for a serious wakeup call that this ain't Prepar3d where they can do what they want but that this is a completely new shark bassin with over a million new participants.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I find there is genuine hilarity in MSFS. My favorite so far was this very popular livery that appeared after Captain Sim released the Cripple 7, and that has even been reposted by thresholdx.

 

[Burning Bridges]

The DC-6 has been released!

 

[Burning Bridges]

In fact it turns out I was totally wrong, it's only 55$, much less than the version for X-Plane that doesn't even work with XP 11

 

[Joggerino]

You could buy the actual plane for 999,999.99$

 

[Burning Bridges]

It's quite a bargain actually, if you consider the crap other companies turn out for 40$.

I haven't taken her off the ground yet and I have found some little problems but it sets the bar in almost every aspect. It even updates visible cargo when you set payload.

I was afraid they would raise the prices for addons to insane new levels, but as it is it's almost a declaration of war to other companies.

 

[Fedora Master]

Imagine paying this much for a make-belief plane.

 

[anvi]

I can fly over google maps for free! I can do my own Vroom Vroom noises.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Best 55$ I spent in a long time actually!

I never before had the feeling of operating a complex machine in a sim like this. It's easy to fly (the epitome of a well-meaning plane) yet also dangerous, I'm constantly alert that my radial engines fail which they pretty often do.

And I'm glad that PMDG hasn't simulated the original 1940s radio equipment. The reasoning is that it wasn't operational on their plane either, basically museum hardware. Instead you have a modern radio and GPS and a simple gyropilot.

It's also beginner friendly with an automated flight engineer and generally very intuitive behavior.

This is without doubt a milestone for MSFS. The reaction of the players is exstatic and this appears to become the next big thing after the PA-28. In fact you could probably buy these 2 and call it a day, because they are so far ahead of the rest.

 

[mondblut]

But can you fly your airbus full of children into a skyscraper?