Mordheim - turn-based tactics in the Warhammer universe

[Caim]

Sounds a lot like how Warmachine Tactics turned out.

But how's the prospect of DLC for this game?

 

[rashiakas]

This only helps on low levels though, on higher levels, if you build your team right, not even deadly is dangerous anymore. If you look at AI teams stats, they are all over the place. Like 10 Strength, 10 Stamina, 10 Agility with some random skills on top. It would be cool if you'd encounter teams of other players on higher difficulties, maybe do some pregen teams for those deadly missions. It also needs more variety, at the moment the enemy team is always a copy of your own composition in how many heroes you take etc. Why not have larger teams with the same overall rating, or teams with an Impressive even when you don't field one. Would make the game way more interesting. I'd also like them to remove enemy class icons from initiative order if they are still unknown to you.

 

[Zeriel]

This only helps on low levels though, on higher levels, if you build your team right, not even deadly is dangerous anymore. If you look at AI teams stats, they are all over the place. Like 10 Strength, 10 Stamina, 10 Agility with some random skills on top. It would be cool if you'd encounter teams of other players on higher difficulties, maybe do some pregen teams for those deadly missions. It also needs more variety, at the moment the enemy team is always a copy of your own composition in how many heroes you take etc. Why not have larger teams with the same overall rating, or teams with an Impressive even when you don't field one. Would make the game way more interesting. I'd also like them to remove enemy class icons from initiative order if they are still unknown to you.

Yeah, I'd like to see more variety in the strength of the teams too. It would be okay to have the player run into warbands that are much weaker than them on maps with poor resources, etc, just to occasionally give average players a sense that their warband leveling up means something. It's really weird the way it plays right now.

 

[Ulminati]

But how's the prospect of DLC for this game?

Developers referred to Skaven/SoS/Merc/Chaos as "Initial warbands" in the past. Hopefully that means Witch hunters, Dwarves and Kislev warbands are in the pipeline

 

[Zeriel]

But how's the prospect of DLC for this game?

Developers referred to Skaven/SoS/Merc/Chaos as "Initial warbands" in the past. Hopefully that means Witch hunters, Dwarves and Kislev warbands are in the pipeline

You don't want spooky bones as the first DLC? Come on, man.

 

[Saark]

You know that the average Steam forum dude complains that he can't survive with Skaven?

Yeah, Skaven are kind of tough the first couple of levels when everyone has like 70% hit and 40% dodge with very little HP. Not even your hero/leader can solo a henchmen most of the time, and if they get 1v2'ed you're done for in one turn. Guess that's why most people complain compared to the other warbands.
Once you get your warband rolling with a couple of skills you realize just how strong skaven really are by steamrolling everything and everyone. They do kind of suck versus impressives but since you will never use a rat-ogre yourself you don't have to deal with impressives in random missions in single-player. During story missions you face impressives and daemons on a regular basis and with their shitty leadership you constantly have to play around fear/terror auras. I would love for them to make a rat-ogre not suck as much (every rat-ogre has stupidity and has to be babysitted by a 12+int unit that can buff guidance every 3 turns) but skaven would be even more ridiculous then.

 

[Ulminati]

After a few false starts while getting grips with the system, the Musk of Incline is strong!
They aren't terribly optimized because I am learning as I go.

Finished Act 1-1. I decided to wait until my warband had levelled, and I'm glad I did. the missiopn wasnt paticularly hard. But there was a lot of plot items that had to be carried around and a lot of precious warpstone to scavenge! The extra hands-paws came in useful.

Scrooge the Assassin Adept is our leader who leads her minions to glory. Mainly uses poisoned blades, but has warp-infused flintlocks as a backup. Maxes agility for dodge, Leadership because failing all alone sucks. Started out levelling weapon skill, but is dipping into accuracy now for extra crit.

Learned skills are:
Warp Poison (3SP) - Weapon attacks sap 2 offensive points from enemies
Sidestep (4SP) - Defensive stance that lets you dodge twice in a round
Defense breach - Bypass 10% dodge/parry
Quick Incision - Successful attacks lower melee resist in an enemy
Swarm - +5% hit and crit against targets an ally threatens
Poison Expert - Reduces enemy poison resist

Karwelas the nightrunner is our main marksman. Maxing Alertness, Agility and Ballistics skill. Once ballistics is capped, he'll start pumping precision. His main job is applying sweet, sweet warp poison to enemies, which keeps them from harming the rest of his furry friends.

Learned skills are:
Warp Poison (3SP) - Weapon attacks sap 2 offensive points from enemies
Crippling shot (3OP) - Short-range shot that saps 1 OP from enemies
Fleet Footed - Gains extra movement range after jumping or climbing
Quick Reload - Costs 1SP less to reload
Eagle Eyes - shots ignore 5% armor

Berekän is our latest addition. He hasn't gotten any skills yet and only has his startign spell.
I'll be pumping toughness, intelligence and ranged skill on him. He has a pair of warplock pistols to go with his staff.

Darth Roxor the nightrunner has been with us from the start, but lags behind in XP. The reason? He keeps getting injured.
so far, th eonly permanent wound he's gotten is one that reduces his melee skill and ballistics skill by 1. So I guess that's something. He uses fighting claws to snik-snik enemies. He's basically scrooge without cool poisons and heroic statline. hopefully it will get better soon. He gets a mix of strength/agility, alertness and melee/accuracy. Trying to get him to qualify for Art of silent Death, but ne needs 6 acc.

Learned skills are:
Fleet Footed - Gains extra movement range after jumping or climbing
Quick Incision - Successful attacks lower melee resist in an enemy
Swarm - +5% hit and crit against targets an ally threatens

Undead Phoenix is our wannabe stormvermin. Not much finesse to him. He's wearing the heaviest armour I can find and a halberd. Pumps Strength, Leadership and Melee skill. Like all Warpguards, he is immune to warp effects while gatherign warpstone

Learned skills are:
Strong Blow (see screenshot)
Armour proficiency - Reduces movement penalty for wearing heavy armour

Hellraiser is Undead Phoenix'es ratty twin. They get the same gear, stats and skills

Angthoron is similar to phoenix and hellraiser. but a bit more defensive-minded so far. (Also, I cant' afford to give him cool skills quite yet). He's got a masterwork sword and shield instead of halberd as well as armor proficiency.

Angthoron hit his head on a mace and as a result he has an injury that reduces his current/maximum alertness by 1

Night Goat is an even more ghetto version of Angthoron. Masterwork sword is swapped for a spear. Still same build philosophy. The nice thing about 4 high-strength warpguards is that we can get ALL THE WARPSTONE on a mission! >:3

Night Goat also has a confusion injury like angthoron. But he backs it up with a megalomania injury that makes him unwilling to use any ranged weapons at all.

Last in our merry little band is Turisas. He's been... underhwelming so far. I meant to make him a backup marksman. But as luck would have it, he got (tastefully) gangraped by chaos and now suffers from megalomania. Those points in ballistics are wasted.

He has no skills andmostly runs around in the background and scavenges stuff for our fancy cart.

 

[Jimmious]

I think you should slowly slowly move this to the Playground Ulminati

 

[Mangoose]

Sounds a lot like how Warmachine Tactics turned out.

But how's the prospect of DLC for this game?

Not sure what you mean in context of Warmachine. I was talking about how moderately shitty Warmachine was... pretty faithful adaptation of the game but bad AI and maps and engine and stuff.

Also I have no idea about DLC in either game, and I have no idea about anything in Mordheim.

I'm actually curious, for people who played both, is Mordheim > Warmachine Tactics? Ulminati I can't remember if you played?

 

[Caim]

Sounds a lot like how Warmachine Tactics turned out.

But how's the prospect of DLC for this game?

Not sure what you mean in context of Warmachine. I was talking about how moderately shitty Warmachine was... pretty faithful adaptation of the game but bad AI and maps and engine and stuff.

Also I have no idea about DLC in either game, and I have no idea about anything in Mordheim.

I'm actually curious, for people who played both, is Mordheim > Warmachine Tactics? Ulminati I can't remember if you played?

From what I've seen Warmachine Tactics is the equivalent of a dick in your face while someone else is pilfering your wallet.

That's why I wonder if Mordheim too will have a batch of DLC whose total price is five times that of the base game.

 

[Karwelas]

I always says that I will cover our backs, didn't I, Ulminati my bro?

 

[Saark]

Skaven are ridiculous. Just got my warband to be able to get those two combos going against any mob:
Gaze of the Horned Rat (-3 OP) + Crippling Shot (-2OP) + Warp Poison (-4 OP) is fun.
Wither (-2m movement penalty) + Touch of Palsy (-4m movement penalty) is just stupid. Except for skaven themselves there are very little units that have more than 6m movement range to begin with.

 

[Ulminati]

Warp poison is definitely a must-have. It's especially good with shuriken/warplock pistols since it's non-stacking and you want it spread to as many enemies as possible.

I'm thinking night runner. Max Agility/Alertness/Ballistic first. Toughness/Leadership/Precision second. Maybe an early precision dip to unlock basic skills for the build faster, I dunno.
Get Warp poison, Poison expert, Reload, Crippling shot and, err, something else once those 3 are at master level. Probably sidestep since you'll have high dodge and need to get close for crippling strike.
Shuriken require less AP than warplocks to fire, so you may be able to squeeze off an additional shot on some levels. the +accuracy bonus is also good to ensure your poison gets applied. Find a good vantage point. apply poison. Go to town. You should be able to keep 2-3 enemies locked down.

 

[rashiakas]

Yep, thats why I said they should nerf poisons. Numbing Poison + Pinning shot removes 7 SP which is game over for most units. And you can do it twice a turn.

 

[Saark]

Doesn't matter if they have 7 SP if they cannot even move a single millimeter with those SP.

But yeah, Skaven just have way too many utility debuffs that stack well with others of the same type. The minus movement range combo requires recruiting mutants, which is only doable once you reach lvl 5 with one of the secondary factions, while stacking -SP/OP debuffs is doable at a very early stage already.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

This must be a LP

 

[zeitgeist]

Just tried it and my first positive impression is that I like how you can customize various parts of your characters' armor, although the selection of models seems very limited. Does this expand later on or did they implement it lazily just so that it's there?

However, who the hell had the brilliant idea to put a zoomed in third person view camera in a game that's supposed to simulate a tabletop game with terrain props and miniatures? Did they pitch it with "It's like you're really on the table!" or something?

 

[Turisas]

Suffers from megalomania, or benefits from it? Clearly what you need to do is whip out CheatEngine and boost his leadership and intelligence by 10 each! I'm da captain now!

 

[vonAchdorf]

Is there a way to show who can use which equipment? I'm quite versed in the lore, so it doesn't really amaze me that Reiklanders can't use Skaven stuff, but if you are new to this, you might wonder were all the goodies you scavenged are.

 

[rashiakas]

Yeah, in the description it lists all the equipment a unit can use. There's also a wiki: http://mordheimcotd.gamepedia.com/Mordheim:_City_of_the_Damned_Wiki
And http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=547654982 is a good overview of all units if you want to plan ahead.

 

[Jimmious]

1.9 GB Steam patch downloading:

Spoiler

Hello Everyone,

Since the full release of Mordheim: City of the Damned, we continue monitoring the forums and your feedback, to provide you support and fix major issues that could alter your experience in the game.

Today, we present you our first patch (1.0.4.9) since the release, providing the following fixes and improvements:

General Fixes

• New RNG system (yes, this is not a joke) that should reflects better the odds of performing actions
  
• Born Leader now retains the proper attribute bonuses when mastered
  
• Fixed the text for Dual Wield debuff that was still displaying 30% instead of 25%
  
• Added a collision on all Jail wagon’s ramp to help AI navigate
  
• Fixed an issue where the Sister Superior were only given 2 Skill Points at Rank 8 while she was supposed to have 4.
  
• The Speed of the Possessed warrior has been increased to Fast instead of being Slow
  
• Treasury will now be updated correctly after receiving mission reward
  
• Monster and Dramatis names are now properly localized to other languages
  
• The “Available units” section is now scrollable using joystick (right stick)
  
• The “New arrivals items list” is now scrollable using joystick (right stick)
  
• Warriors won't "rubber-band" anymore when moving after they performed an action
  
• The Mission Rewards percentage automatically gathered after battle will now be based on your Warriors that are not Out of Action at the end of the fight. The changes will go as follow:
  • Normal: 4% per warrior alive
    
  • Hard: 5% per warrior alive
    
  • Brutal: 6% per warrior alive
    
  • Deadly: 7% per warrior alive
    
  • Damage dealt by AI units has been increased based on mission difficulties as follow:
    
  • Normal: Remains as +5% damage
    
  • Hard: Remains as +15% damage
    
  • Brutal: Increases to +30% (from 25%)
    
  • Deadly: Increases to +45% (from 35%)
• Reduced the request of the first Wyrdstone Shipment from 100 to 75
  
• Slightly reduced the Wyrdstone requests for Warband rank 0, 1 and 2
  
• Increased the Starting Gold for new Warband from 200 to 250 gold (this is the base value before any Veteran bonus are added)
  
• Made sure the proper animation triggers when a buff is received from Wyrdstone effects, Traps and Idols
  
• Added the amount of current players playing the game in the Skirmish List
  
• Fixed the default selected item in the Hideout menu to prevent misclicks which sometimes lead for Players to enter the wrong menu
  
• Improved the highlighting system in the game menus
  
• Wounds of the Pink Horror have been increased to be on par with other Daemons
  
• It is now impossible to get an Ambush in two scenarios in a row
  
• We added a Kick option in the multiplayer lobby
  
• "Ready" is now selected by default when entering a lobby, while using a gamepad
  
• The curse dealing fatal damage has been changed from 6666 to 9999 (since 9 is the sacred number of Tzeentch)
  
• Added command line "-lowSettings" to force game to start using low graphics settings (need to delete option.sg file first)
  
• Added command line "-fullLog" to force fully detailed logs (Check the thread "Issues launching or loading the game. Read this first!" for more details)
  
• Display ambush range when selecting ambush stance

Unique Story Missions Fixes

• We removed reinforcements during the Unique Story Missions that takes place in the Library and in the Ballroom
  
• Fixed the position of an Objective Marker for the Story Mission 8 of the Skaven
  
• Merga will be more passive and focus on her ritual in the missions:
  • Sisters 2-4
    
  • Mercenary 2-2
• Added collision on the broken stagecoach-wagon in Act 2-3 of Mercenaries Campaign.
  
• Slightly increased Gold Rewards for Act 2 Story missions (sadly this is not retroactive)
  
• We made modifications to the Library missions AI behaviour in hope it will prevent the blocking of teleports for more than 1 Turn. Make sure to report if this keeps happening

Runes & Marks

• Rune of Dismay has been modified as follow:
  • The effect is now Stackable
    
  • The debuff effect of the 1 Hand enchant has been reduced from -5% to -3% for the normal version and from -10% to -6% for the Mastery version
    
  • The debuff effect of the 2 Hand/Range enchant has been reduced from -10% to -6% for the normal version and from -20% to -12% for the Mastery version

Multiplayer Fixes

• Added fail safe to avoid connection lost
  
• Improved network stability while loading
  
• Added a Fix to prevent players from being locked in "Wait for opponent" if opponent disconnect during its turn

Navigation and Terrain fixes

• Fixed several pathfinding issues involving building doorways.
  
• Fixed an issue in the Raven Barracks Map that would cause, on a rare occasion, units to teleport outside of the gameplay area.
  
• Fixed an issue in Noble's Quarter Map 1 that would cause procedural props to imprison units inside a building.
  
• Fixed various issues with procedural buildings inter-connection over all Merchant and Noble Quarters Maps.
  
• Fixed numerous visual bugs with certain buildings.
  
• Fixed camera behaviour over several locations in the Great Library and Raven Barracks Maps.
  
• Fixed several collision issues in the Raven Barracks Map.
  
• Fixed Level of Detail aggressiveness on certain procedural props and terrain elements for all Merchant Quarters Maps.
  
• Fixed neutral monsters that would spawn occasionally in the air in Count Steinhardt's Palace Map.
  
• Fixed visual issues on a building in Quayside Map
  
• Fixed a rare occurrence where the indoor Warband Chest was unreachable.
  
• Fixed an issue where you could charge/ambush into the filthy waters of Quayside.
  
• Fixed floating Wyrdstones that could appear in Merchant Quarter's Map 4 on rare occasions.
  
• Fixed an issue with units that could spawn outside the navmesh in Quayside Skirmishes.
  
• Fixed an instance of Nobles Quarter Map 2 that would spawn unreachable Wyrdstones.

The "New RNG System" sounds like "we made it a bit more in your favor" to me..

*And I had no idea the AI gets damage bonuses in harder difficulty missions! I though it was only a matter of numbers, they basically have a stronger warband..

 

[Zeriel]

The RNG felt a little odd as-is. I'm a veteran of these types of games and consider most RNG complaining retarded, but Mordheim was really strange at times. Sometimes developers fuck it up, wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't working properly (clustering seeds etc).

 

[Jimmious]

The RNG felt a little odd as-is. I'm a veteran of these types of games and consider most RNG complaining retarded, but Mordheim was really strange at times. Sometimes developers fuck it up, wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't working properly (clustering seeds etc).

Sure you can fuck it up..although as a programmer I do wonder how you can do that unless you want to re-invent the wheel so to say...
Now apart from the generator itself I guess they tweaked some things to make it more "human acceptable", like avoiding massive missing streaks. The human brain can't take them well, it's a fact.

Btw Zeriel you should change your profile pic because there's some other asshole in here with it who blemishes it. Or convince him to do it or something

 

[Zeriel]

The RNG felt a little odd as-is. I'm a veteran of these types of games and consider most RNG complaining retarded, but Mordheim was really strange at times. Sometimes developers fuck it up, wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't working properly (clustering seeds etc).

Sure you can fuck it up..although as a programmer I do wonder how you can do that unless you want to re-invent the wheel so to say...
Now apart from the generator itself I guess they tweaked some things to make it more "human acceptable", like avoiding massive missing streaks. The human brain can't take them well, it's a fact.

I'm okay with miss streaks, XCOM never bothered me for example, even 1% overwatch hits from aliens or missing 99% shots. Mordheim just seemed overall to trend towards some results that don't make sense. Not individual streaks, but the overall effect made me feel like maybe there was some bugs in there. I didn't keep track, though, so I guess people can still say "nah its fine" until a statistical analysis is presented.

The fact they're changing it probably says something, though, in my experience it's pretty rare for a developer to do that, and I don't think it would be presented that way if it was just a git gud issue. Then they'd say "we've introduced mechanics to make the RNG feel less brutal" or something like that.

 

[Jimmious]

The RNG felt a little odd as-is. I'm a veteran of these types of games and consider most RNG complaining retarded, but Mordheim was really strange at times. Sometimes developers fuck it up, wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't working properly (clustering seeds etc).

Sure you can fuck it up..although as a programmer I do wonder how you can do that unless you want to re-invent the wheel so to say...
Now apart from the generator itself I guess they tweaked some things to make it more "human acceptable", like avoiding massive missing streaks. The human brain can't take them well, it's a fact.

I'm okay with miss streaks, XCOM never bothered me for example, even 1% overwatch hits from aliens or missing 99% shots. Mordheim just seemed overall to trend towards some results that don't make sense. Not individual streaks, but the overall effect made me feel like maybe there was some bugs in there. I didn't keep track, though, so I guess people can still say "nah its fine" until a statistical analysis is presented.

The fact they're changing it probably says something, though, in my experience it's pretty rare for a developer to do that, and I don't think it would be presented that way if it was just a git gud issue. Then they'd say "we've introduced mechanics to make the RNG feel less brutal" or something like that.

What makes me suspicious is the fact that they announce it. They could have easily tweaked the RNG without saying anything and if the impact was good, people would just relax with their complaining. The fact that they do say "we changed the RNG" implies that people will definitely be happier with it which also means that it will favor the human player, most probably. Of course it's all speculation but since I also saw damage boosts to the AI I'm starting to believe that the rules are not completely the same for AI and human players.