Game News More Fallout 3 drama

[Volourn]

I don't recall the exact quotes; but I seriosuly doubt they were present. It came down to the same thing. Don't get so mad at VD when you are as guilty as he is.

 

[Section8]

Fallout 2 intro, anyone?

Pfft. We all know Fallout 2 doesn't count as canon.

To the west, you can see a natural light. For the first time in your life, you are looking at the outside world...

...but since you aren't wearing your goggles, your eyes burn up and you die. The End.

On the topic of VO and reading large blocks of text, I'm going to throw my two cents in, and say that it's not just the result of <insert sweeping generalisation of console gaming here>. I can't stand reading big blocks of text in games either. Especially virtual books. I think the notion offends my brain, which would rather find somewhere comfortable and sit down with some printed literature.

But VO isn't the ultimate solution either, as proved by Fallout Tactics. The soliloquys given by any major NPC were dull at best. Interactivity as always, is the key.

 

[Vault Dweller]

No, you've resorted to a useless personal attack. Even if he was being 'full of shit', there's other ways to phrase it.

Why? To be nice? I prefer being blunt. I never cared much about political correctness.

I don't care about PR, but I dislike flat-out lies.

You've stated in the past that "Lying is a norm for these professions, as natural as breathing", and implied PR people who were honest were "Merely incompetent" for doing that. So, what's the problem now? Why the intolerance for this particular case? Wouldn't he be doing his job according to you?

Heh, good memory, RP. I don't believe I contradicted myself here as I never stated that I like such people or their behavior. Just because Pete is doing his job doesn't mean that I have to cut him some slack for the bullshit.

Fair enough, but try not to drag the rest of the Codex along with you.

The Codex is more then one person. Much more.

Saying I don't know how to read might be knee-slapping funny where you come from, but in the real world, its a piss poor attempt to dodge the issue that you are jumping to conclusions and are using personal attacks which are uncalled for .

Didn't mean to attack you. Let me explain then. You stated that "We know nothing more at this point, other than its an RPG". I think that wasn't entirely accurate, and had you paid attention to what they've said and done, and asked yourself why, you'd have seen a more detailed picture.

But telling someone they're full of shit or telling someone to fuck off isn't offensive?

If a person is full of shit, it's not an offense, but a fact. Telling somebody (you) to fuck off is definitely offensive, so I take that back. I added a smiley to lessen the impact though :wink:

 

[Avin]

googles?

when the vault dweller left vault 13 HE WASN'T WEARING ANY FUCKING GOOGLES!!!

what should i suppose? that vault 13 and the other vaults has illumination sources enough to make one left without getting blind.

and, for fo2 opening, the movie said googles would be necessary as much the garden kit would reconstruct thw world. that wasn't true. bethesda should think again.

 

[Vault Dweller]

And that's what I did (besides calling ol' Pete a liar). I presented the facts, underlined some phrases in the original article, and asked folks a question to stimulate their conclusion-drawing abilities.

Well there you go. Don't pretend to be objective. You have to be objective.

I's a topic for a good discussion. I saw a line, significance of which some people could have missed, and I drew people attention to it. Isn't that the role of a journalist?

 

[fnordcircle]

p.s. fuck off.

I've never been insulted on a message board before. Does it always hurt this bad? I've been lying in bed sobbing all day. You have wounded me, sir. In time I hope the wound can heal.

You should remember that words can hurt, and there is a live person on the other end of this big old internet.

PS - I've seen you do other shit, which is what I was referring to. Also, you are the biggest internet crybaby I think I have ever met. Get over yourself.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I've never been insulted on a message board before. Does it always hurt this bad? I've been lying in bed sobbing all day. You have wounded me, sir. In time I hope the wound can heal.

They do heal in time. You know when Volourn disappears for weeks at a time? He's healing up for another round of abuse.

 

[Volourn]

"You know when Volourn disappears for weeks at a time? He's healing up for another round of abuse."

LOL

 

[Vault Dweller]

...but damning these people before they've started is just silly. I'm not saying you shouldn't speculate about what a Bethesda employee says in an interview, but perhaps you should take it with a grain of salt. More discussion and less bitching, perhaps?

Perhaps, perhaps not. Saint has already made a good post on that, so there is no need for me to rephrase that:

Look at it this way. Bethesda PR's been saying there's no design work done on Fallout 3 at all and they don't have any idea what they're going to do with it yet. They've been saying that since the beginning when they announced it. Yet they gave gaming magazines info about being a survival horror-esque RPG and bits of info on goggle wearing player characters. Then they claim that info given to those magazines were given at the time of the announcement, so they've had months to correct those magazines on the subject of what they originally told them - which still doesn't fit what's been said, does it?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Why? To be nice? I prefer being blunt. I never cared much about political correctness.

You can be as blunt as you want. The problem comes up when you're being excessively blunt while representing the Codex.

Heh, good memory, RP. I don't believe I contradicted myself here as I never stated that I like such people or their behavior. Just because Pete is doing his job doesn't mean that I have to cut him some slack for the bullshit.

I didn't implied or said you contradicted yourself. Merely asking why Pete Hines seems to be under your aim in that way. See, if lying his part of his job, accusing him of lying seems moot because that would be his job. If you don't tolerate lies, even when it is someone's job, that's fine, but wouldn't years of knowing that PRs supposedly lie lessen the rabidness against them? Possibly not, but then again, I don't recall many other such outbursts against other PRs on your behalf.

The Codex is more then one person. Much more.

Yet, to my knowledge, only one person in the staff - the utmost representative faction of the site - has publicly belittled him like that. You. They may agree with you on it, but how you phrase it when compared to others of the same station is still in bad taste.

Didn't mean to attack you. Let me explain then. You stated that "We know nothing more at this point, other than its an RPG". I think that wasn't entirely accurate, and had you paid attention to what they've said and done, and asked yourself why, you'd have seen a more detailed picture.

The big picture is still that we don't what it is, other than an RPG. We know things it supposedly will have, but those don't lead to any great conclusions.

If a person is full of shit, it's not an offense, but a fact.

This wasn't only about indicating that someone was (supposedly) full of shit, it was about using an insulting term indicating that you felt the person was full of shit.

Telling somebody (you) to fuck off is definitely offensive, so I take that back.

Fine.

I added a smiley to lessen the impact though :wink:

That's like raping someone and telling them you'll be using a condom to lessen the impact.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You can be as blunt as you want. The problem comes up when you're being excessively blunt while representing the Codex.

True. Well, I figured that if ever go too far from what the powers that be feel is acceptable or tolerable, they will let me know. I checked my profile and messages this morning. I still have the admin status and no "what the fuck is wrong with you, asshole" type messages. Saint did mention in another thread that I could have been more tactful, and I noted that. Case closed. I'm still an asshole, Pete is still full of shit. Status Quo.

Merely asking why Pete Hines seems to be under your aim in that way.

Well, I like to trash them politicians too, but it's an RPG site, so I'll have to stick with trashing the PR folks exclusively.

If you don't tolerate lies, even when it is someone's job, that's fine, but wouldn't years of knowing that PRs supposedly lie lessen the rabidness against them? Possibly not, but then again, I don't recall many other such outbursts against other PRs on your behalf.

Outbursts? Rabidness? Whatcha talking about? I said the guy is full of shit. It's a remark. Outburst is something like: "OMG! I can't take that lying motherfucking cocksucker anymore! Why won't he fucking DIE!!!!!" lol

Yet, to my knowledge, only one person in the staff - the utmost representative faction of the site - has publicly belittled him like that. You. They may agree with you on it, but how you phrase it when compared to others of the same station is still in bad taste.

Well, maybe. I'll give you that. Still, we are all different, and that one of the things I like about Codex. If all staff members here were exactly the same, it would be boring, wouldn't you think? Overall, you can't say that every word and post I made is unreasonably offensive and unprofessional.

The big picture is still that we don't what it is, other than an RPG. We know things it supposedly will have, but those don't lead to any great conclusions.

I disagree. There's been a number of interviews/previews/comments that point to one thing. It will be neither isometric nor turn-based. Not that I would expect them to make such a game. They made a name, money, and a solid customer base making FP open-ended exploration-focused games. Why anyone would think that they might consider something other then a proven formula with a few tweaks is a mystery to me.

 

[jiujitsu]

It's a very well known fact that consoles are incapable of text output.

People often forget that there's a game called KOTOR, and it's on the console, and it also has dialogue choices. But obviously this doesn't count for anything, because... (I'm sure someone will find some dumb reason as to why KOTOR doesn't count.)

Kotor's dialogue was fucking stupid. It didn't matter at all what you said. You always end up with the same shit in the end. It was a boat load better than Morrowind's, but it wasn't even close to Fallout. I don't think consoles can go that far. I don't think they would even bother to try. The big money is not with the customers who like to read, it's with the customers who like to watch.

 

[Sol Invictus]

If a person is full of shit, it's not an offense, but a fact. Telling somebody (you) to fuck off is definitely offensive, so I take that back. I added a smiley to lessen the impact though :wink:

How nice of you to present your opinions here as fact. They're not facts - they're opinions. How would you know if Pete is lying anyhow? I don't suppose you have a Wayback Machine from the year 2007, do you?

 

[Sol Invictus]

PS - I've seen you do other shit, which is what I was referring to. Also, you are the biggest internet crybaby I think I have ever met. Get over yourself.

Crybaby? Hah, what a laugh riot. I make a couple of posts about World of Warcraft sucking and suddenly I'm the world's biggest crybaby. Check yourself, bitch. At least I'm not incessantly bitching non stop about how Pete Hines is full of shit and how Bethesda lied to us even though the game isn't in development yet. Boo hoo. Talk about drama.

Saint is definitely campaigning for a Fallout we want to see, and it and he knows how to put his case into close, organized form - he presents arguments that I completely agree with. I just don't agree with the infantile drivel some of you constantly spew. You hardly even pierce the subject. If you were to put your arguments into proper format people would at least spend some time reading them instead of glossing over the constant slurs and the occasional baseless accusation/conclusion. Saint's zeal on the subject seems a lot more valid than any of those of you who only see fit to troll about, and he certainly doesn't accomplish his arguments through any use of personal slander. More importantly, he doesn't come off as rabid. As for Bethesda's PR, considering the recent 'fallouts', they seem unequipped to handle hordes of screaming rabid fanbabies. Then again, I can't think of any PR department which would be able to deal with a rabid mob.

The following advice is for all of you, not just VD: TACT IS VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOUR OPINION.

 

[jiujitsu]

As I've suggested on IRC:

The Codex should make a forum section called 'Exitium vs. The World'.

Almost every thread would be moved there making the rest of the forum obsolete.

:D

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Why are people harping on Rex? Seriously. Does it stop making him 'one of the boys' because he thinks one of the staff members and several forum users were out of line? If that merits a special board for him to vent, I'm entitled to at least three boards of my own, and I assume others here would be getting the same.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How would you know if Pete is lying anyhow? I don't suppose you have a Wayback Machine from the year 2007, do you?

Once again, Saint's quote:

Look at it this way. Bethesda PR's been saying there's no design work done on Fallout 3 at all and they don't have any idea what they're going to do with it yet. They've been saying that since the beginning when they announced it. Yet they gave gaming magazines info about being a survival horror-esque RPG and bits of info on goggle wearing player characters. Then they claim that info given to those magazines were given at the time of the announcement, so they've had months to correct those magazines on the subject of what they originally told them - which still doesn't fit what's been said, does it?

 

[Sol Invictus]

Well, I like to trash them politicians too, but it's an RPG site, so I'll have to stick with trashing the PR folks exclusively.

I'll just quote Rich "Lowtax" Kyanka of SomethingAwful on this subject. I have highlighted the parts most pertinent to this thread. Read the whole thing for good measure:


Anti-Republican protestors

I cringe whenever hearing that the Republicans are planning some upcoming meeting, convention, or fundraiser to earn more money for the "Buy Jesus Christ a New Diamond Beard Foundation," not because I hate Republicans, but because I hate anti-Republican protestors even more. These loudmouthed, braindead raving cliches make me want to start voting Republican just to spite them, but naturally I avoid doing so because that would only ensure four more years of unwashed horse-like creatures parading down busy intersections while waving "BU$H IS EVIL" signs they drew with their parents' Magic Markers. The general idea here seems to be that if you are too fucking stupid to intelligently explain your position on a few political issues because you often break down into tears when losing arguments to eight-year olds regarding the quality of Willie Wonkie candy in the Hy-Vee parking lot, you can compensate for your lack of debate skills by being as loud and belligerent as possible. I mean, hell, that tactic works all the time, doesn't it? Do you know how many women have been converted to the ranks of Christianity thanks to the ceaseless efforts of the anti-abortion lobby and their rock-solid tactic of "standing outside abortion clinics in the middle of the rain and shrieking like the Pod People from 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' whenever they spot a pregnant woman walking within a 20-mile radius of the clinic"? I'm guessing somewhere between nine and ten hundred million billion thousand. Maybe even more if you count fat women as two people each.
Wow! Suddenly I hate George Bush and think America is just like Nazi Germany, all thanks to a fucking posterboard sign held by some fat unemployed shithead! The power of advertising in action!

The insane liberals, despite how much they claim to loathe insane conservatives, seem to have absolutely no qualms with adopting their awesome policy of forming large groups waving crudely misspelled signs, stomping around public places to disrupt the daily routines of normal non-insane folks, and screaming at everybody they see with the ultimate goal of annoying them into submitting to their wills. If people have to choose between George Bush and a crowd of furious bicyclists whose biggest claim to fame is that one of their blogs was mentioned in passing by Al Franken on that one AM radio station nobody turns on because it's about as exciting as listening to NPR at 50% speed, they'll either choose George Bush or they'll choose to look away when the riot police start caving in skulls with their nightclubs.

Here's a newsflash you guys and gals who believe George Bush is going to physically break into your bathroom and steal the awesome weed you have hidden in that prescription gout medication bottle next to the Drano: most people might actually listen to you if you present your facts clearly and act confident enough in what you believe in to know that these facts will speak for themselves. Most people will NOT listen to you if you're stomping around and blocking traffic while shouting tremendously catchy slogans like "two, four, six, eight, George Bush is a fucking liar and is Hitler and Satan and fuck you George Bush you cocksucking father of whores." Whenever chucklefucks like you begin blocking up traffic and causing me to be delayed, my first two priorities instantly switch to running you down with my car and voting Republican across the boards, not necessarily in that order.

Wow! Suddenly I hate George Bush and think America is just like Nazi Germany, all thanks to a fucking posterboard sign held by some fat unemployed shithead! The power of advertising in action!

 

[Sol Invictus]

Kotor's dialogue was fucking stupid. It didn't matter at all what you said. You always end up with the same shit in the end. It was a boat load better than Morrowind's, but it wasn't even close to Fallout. I don't think consoles can go that far. I don't think they would even bother to try. The big money is not with the customers who like to read, it's with the customers who like to watch.

To steal a quote from some homosexual fashion designer: Girl, you walk like you on crack!

I never said KOTOR was perfect, as the choices were a tad hackneyed for the Dark Side - but since when did you 'end up with the same shit in the end' as you so aptly put? Unless my memory is failing me, which I assure you it is not, could you not create several different outcomes for the Romeo & Juliet scenario? What of the endgame - sure, it was kind of sudden, but it was a result wasn't it? In any case, this is all besides the point. The point I made was that consoles and their games are perfectly capable of dialogue. It's up to the designers to make the dialogue good and engaging.

By the way, as much as I liked Planescape Torment, I refuse to play it again because I don't feel very comfortable reading giant blocks of 6p sized text over and over again on my monitor.

Besides, Morrowind had more text than Fallout. What have you to say to that?

 

[FireWolf]

So does this board always degenerate into a social drama like this? I thought it was a games-news discussion site.

Another little nit-pick:
In the interview it doesn't mention a vault anywhere. Does the protagonist have to have come from a vault? Or could he just be like the scrags in Fallout 2...

Simply this interview is extremely vague and therefore wide open to speculation upon the details. It is hardly an in-depth cover story, now is it? It is merely a couple of paragraphs spewed out at the same time as all the excitement over the licence being taken up by Beth.

 

[Araanor]

The following advice is for all of you, not just VD: TACT IS VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO RESPECT YOUR OPINION.

It's not a bad advice; I suggest you consider it yourself. Calling the people you disagree with crybabies and whatnot and putting it forward as you do isn't helping your cause.

So does this board always degenerate into a social drama like this? I thought it was a games-news discussion site.

No, it happens, but it's not a common occurence.

 

[jiujitsu]

To steal a quote from some homosexual fashion designer: Girl, you walk like you on crack!

I never said KOTOR was perfect, as the choices were a tad hackneyed for the Dark Side - but since when did you 'end up with the same shit in the end' as you so aptly put? Unless my memory is failing me, which I assure you it is not, could you not create several different outcomes for the Romeo & Juliet scenario? What of the endgame - sure, it was kind of sudden, but it was a result wasn't it? In any case, this is all besides the point. The point I made was that consoles and their games are perfectly capable of dialogue. It's up to the designers to make the dialogue good and engaging.

By the way, as much as I liked Planescape Torment, I refuse to play it again because I don't feel very comfortable reading giant blocks of 6p sized text over and over again on my monitor.

Besides, Morrowind had more text than Fallout. What have you to say to that?

Morrowind had more 'text', but text !== dialogue. I want to talk to a person(you know what I mean..) not an encyclopedia.

Consoles are not capable of Fallout caliber dialogue.

Your opinion about Torment. I, personally, wish every game had such great writing and dialogue. There is no way in hell we would ever see something that great on a console. The console gamers just aren't into that.

Do you honestly think that they would put dialogue as complex as Fallout's in a console game?

 

[Sol Invictus]

Please elaborate on what is so 'complex' about Fallout's dialogue.

 

[FireWolf]

the half working "ask me about" option?

Perhaps he's refering to the speech skill and related perks. The language used was more complex, the dialogues were often fairly long and you weren't set in a specific path from the outset. You could be evil in one particular then nice as pie in another and the character sometimes reacted to that. I think everything in Fallout was more involved. Everything you did affected the way the world responded to you, or at least was meant to.

 

[Sol Invictus]

It's simply evidence of a well designed game, not evidence that similar design can't be implemented on a next-gen console.