Myth: A New Age CYOA

[Nevill]

The cunning, lucky and opportunistic can prosper greatly in chaos. Plus, lots of work for mercenary companies! When there's chaos we can more easily form alliances and put ourselves in a position of power. It's riskier but it's better for us than peace.

Well, then it's your lucky day. They did not yet restore order since the last war. There is chaos all around, as we've seen during the fire in Myrgard, or by the rise of necromancers in the dwarven kingdom. The opportunities are plenty, and I am sure our company in Muirthemne prospers, as would soon our business venture with Herr Mayer.

You have to have an oasis of stability to enjoy the power you've made among the chaos, though. Those who have the power create that stability around themselves, sooner or later.

That and letting TFM go seems like the least costly option available to us right now. All the others, if they fail, result in him not only being free, but hating us. That's a very bad place to be.

The least costly option would have been letting him inside our minds and take over our bodies several updates ago. Then we would have all the power and be best buddies with him. But then it would not be our story anymore, so no. We'll do it the hard way.

 

[Kz3r0]

Dii

 

[Smashing Axe]

I think we'd still maintain our independence if he gets that girl's body. There's no reason he'd want to possess more than one body after all. Past decisions are irrelevant to the present anyway.

 

[archaen]

D2

 

[Jester]

Him being one of the Ancient Evils aside, he betrayed us right in the middle of the mission, took one of us hostage, and tried to get free despite our clear desire to contain him (which is why he resorted to taking hostages in the first place).

And he peeped on us in the bathroom.

We didnt have option to free him before, i got impression that Derryth didnt wish him to look all time and prevent eventual body hijack. With will be deal with.
Ancient Evil like most archmages we set free? Mazz was most noble one, still closer to neutral and Nine was actually 2 master evils fusion, so that kill because Evil excuse dont hold to well. Faceless strike me as more i dont care type of guy, passive person.

Guy was in piece of cloth for how many years? If i would be trapped like that i would to grab rare chance to get out, even if my keeper would prefer to keep me locked. He did say he will help clear real Ole-whatever camp and take care of capturing prisoners. You could argue that we wish to keep him in bracelets for that magical heads up before death, but killing him wont do that.

 

[Nevill]

Look, if you don't want to kill him, just add a conditional preference to your vote, as D does not necessarily require it.

Myself I think this to be a very risky and silly idea. Archmages don't die easily, and those that do tend to take their assailants with them.

This is what was said about Mazzarin:

You are fairly certain you could 'kill' him at this exact moment if you wanted to. You are also certain that none of you would walk out of this room alive and that he almost certainly would not stay dead.

Of 100 berserks sent to chop the already petrified Watcher, none returned alive.

The Deceiver was blown up when he killed 'Shiver' with a Withering Dream.

I'd rather not even try, especially not in our circumstances. If he survives, a lot of our people would die.

I may not mant to kill him, but I don't want to free him at all. I feel very strongly about this one.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Being the direct cause of his continued imprisonment is the worst position we could put ourselves in. He'll hold a grudge against us where there is none now, and him being an immortal arch-mage, it's not a question of if he'll break free, but when. That is much worse than him free and happy with or indifferent to us.

I agree completely with your assessment of the effort it would take to kill him.

 

[Nevill]

Too bad we have a pair of gloves, Greater Heal spell and a connoisseur of ancient artefacts with ancient mages inside of them waiting for us in the real world.

He knows we can do worse than imprisonment. Does he want us to hold a grudge?

We didn't put him there, and we won't release him.

 

[Jester]

Being the direct cause of his continued imprisonment is the worst position we could put ourselves in. He'll hold a grudge against us where there is none now, and him being an immortal arch-mage, it's not a question of if he'll break free, but when. That is much worse than him free and happy with or indifferent to us.

I agree completely with your assessment of the effort it would take to kill him.

I agree with this assessment. The most likely to work offensive course of action would be to trap him in bracelets and destroy them afterwards and thats still risky.

The most beneficial course of action is letting him go, we arent enemy to each other so i doubt he will act against us. Killing him is fine. Risking a merging of demon with him is worst course of action. Collapsing portal is fine and dandy, but if he get away we are screwed big time, if we fail to kill him we are in bad position.

We didn't put him there, and we won't release him.

Do you think he will care about this if we prevent him from escaping? Either we let him go or kill him for good.

 

[Nevill]

So... don't kill him? Switch the portal off and have a nice talk like grown-ups that you are.

Letting him go benefits no one. I don't trust his word. If he thinks he can have his way with us if he takes a hostage, there is plenty of them waiting for us in the outside world. It won't end there.

Do you think he will care about this if we prevent him from escaping? Either we let him go or kill him for good.

I think he can't harm us if he can't get away. So he'll care about this if he does not want to see Papa Mazzarin.

 

[Jester]

So... don't kill him? Switch the portal off and have a nice talk like grown-ups that you are.

"Yeah i know you are upset that we prevented you from getting out to get body, but it not our fault. Take it to people who put you there in first place." - its bad argument.

Have a nice talk like grown-ups? He consider us only a keeper of bracelets who get him out from hole in ground he was stuck for god knows how long, if we will stop him we will be considered jailers instead people guarding exit. He will give us "reparations" for running away in form of help with task at hand, i doubt we can persuade him for more. Not sure if that guard survive for long and she is needed for his escape.

 

[Nevill]

How difficult it is to understand that I. don't. intend. for. him. to. escape? It is irrelevant what kind of 'help' he offers.

And he knows we aren't too keen on the idea of him walking the land once again. It's why he has taken the hostage, though he didn't think it through.

The only way he is going to experience the world for a foreseeable future is through the bracelets. We aren't letting him out. If he objects, we can try to get rid of them and put them into an even deeper hole - let's see if he finds better 'charges'.

If he is not content with the bracelets' owners, he could have unlocked them and waited for the new batch of adventurers to pick him up after a hundred years or two. In fact, that is what we tried to do in the Magic Academy. He didn't let us go. So it is only appropriate that we show him as much affection as he did to us and not part ways.

 

[Kz3r0]

Anyone seriously believe that he will keep his word?

 

[Smashing Axe]

Anyone seriously believe that he will keep his word?

What do you think he'll do if we let him go?

 

[Nevill]

Off the top of my head, he might...

- Compel Derryth and Thais into service. This is unlikely, and it is more of a Deceiver's way of doing things, but there is nothing stopping him.
- Assume our identity to make use of considerable resources we have acquired to have a good head start in the world.
- Have us cross Mazzarin in some way. The story about his student should be telling. He liked him, too, by the way.
- Go say sup to his old buddy The Watcher.

None of these are particularly appealing.

But I can't shake off the feeling that the decision to try and kill him can only result in TPK, either from failure (Zero Credibility is hoping it won't get traced to us, but that's a gamble), or from success (the army upstairs and the spirit in the room do not qualify for good allies). I don't know everyone's motivation, but I am doing it with a 'let the spiders eat each other' kind of attitude. I don't want either of them winning, all I need is a distraction.

On that note, I'd like to ask you, Kz3r0, what really motivates you to choose this course of action? I get Zero Credibility's sentiment of 'when will you finally die, you bunch of old degenerates?!', but you did strike me as a more level-headed person.

I am really uneasy about Dii. Not that I am sure something else is better, of course.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Well the main reason I prefer Dii is that I think if we can pull it off it would be safer for the hostage. Taking him out for now (even if he could find a way back eventually) is just a bonus. I'd be willing to strike a deal with him to return to status quo and even not give him to Mazzarin just yet, but the hostage... he could kill her if we push him before he realises just how stupid that is. Here's the breakdown of what I think could happen in Dii:

1) The creature doesn't listen and drops the gate immediately or listens but drops it too soon. This then practically becomes Di.
2) The creature tries to do it but drops it too late. What TFM will do is anyone’s guess. Will he even notice this? The big tip off in F would be our spells flying at the gate as he is stepping through, this would be a much more subtle attempt. All he could notice is that the gate went dead really fast behind him. And we do have a very good reason for wanting to free or kill the creature as soon as possible anyway (to get out ourselves), so there's that. But yes, he might still realise what we have done and why.
3) It works and TFM is taken out or wounded really, really bad. I think this is the same best outcome we could expect in F, only the creature probably has better chances of pulling it off because it is much easier for it to drop the spell in the exactly right moment.

I think that's it. I don't know what the creature would do afterwards. But if it cooperated with us I think it would not be immediately hostile. Maybe. And if not, it would do whatever it wants anyway. D in general is a pretty big gamble.

 

[Nevill]

The creature doesn't listen and drops the gate immediately or listens but drops it too soon. This then practically becomes Di.

See, this is where I doubt it becomes Di. Not if the gate closes almost in TFM's face. If it becomes obvious we don't just free the creature, but actually wait for TFM to cross the gate to ambush him, this is going to be extremely bad for us. Right now we have a certain 'understanding' with the mage - even if we keep him imprisoned, he will not kill us, as he needs us alive to 'live'. All bets are off when we actually try to kill him. He can't have us alive and doing what we want if we want to get rid of him permanently.

And if we wound but not kill him, this is not going to make things any better for us. The archmage is stronger than us by an order of magnitude, he can easily take us with him if he feels he is going to die. Naturally, the safety of the hostage is a non-issue at this point where we can't even guarantee ours.

I have no problems if the creature does what it wants as long as we have a choice between allying with it or TFM. As I said, I don't want either of them to win - I want to switch the gate off and occupy TFM enough to get out of here.

I believe Dii crosses a certain threshold of what we are allowed to do without TFM taking revenge on us. As long as we aren't trying to kill him, we are acting within the unwritten 'rules' that allow us to be a bother to each other without being outright enemies, and are thus 'safe'.

 

[Azira]

If we manage to pull this off in a manner that keeps the status quo, then we need TFM out of the bracelets, or the bracelets off. It might be time for the proton gun and the ghost trap...

 

[Zero Credibility]

He is less then two fucking meters from the gate and walking into it, right now. Even if we free the creature right this moment and it drops the spell immediately, the gate would still slam right into his face. So yes, in this regard Dii is pretty much exactly the same as Di. We are left with one pissed off mage and one free creature.

 

[Nevill]

If we manage to pull this off in a manner that keeps the status quo, then we need TFM out of the bracelets, or the bracelets off. It might be time for the proton gun and the ghost trap...

Why? I mean, eventually we want them off, yes, just not to end in the same situation again, but if we keep the SQ, why can't we go about things as we did before until then?

Actually, we have a ritual for limb restoration on hand, so it's not like we can't deal with it right now if we wanted to.

He is less then two fucking meters from the gate and walking into it, right now. Even if we free the creature right this moment and it drops the spell immediately, the gate would still slam right into his face. So yes, in this regard Dii is pretty much exactly the same as Di. We are left with one pissed off mage and one free creature.

Well, then I'll rename the outcome I am talking about into 'the creature drops the spell but it fails to hurt the archmage'. Makes sense that it would be on the cards, since we aren't destroying the gates with extreme force as in E/F to fuck everything up, we just unravel the spell.

What I am trying to say is that it is best not to have hostile intentions. I do not believe in our abilities to hide them from him, and given the difference in our powers ('dose stats, damn!), it could ruin us with more certainity than it would ruin him.

Di risks the hostage (but perhaps less so than C). Dii risks everything. They are both gambles, but not on the same level.

 

[Zero Credibility]

How does Di not risk everything? He can then kill the hostage and kill or disable us right here and now, capture the creature and reconnect it to the gate (as you have pointed out) and walk right out. If you want a choice that doesn’t risk everything, D is not it.

 

[Nevill]

He can't afford to kill us until he captures the creature. He is still in the bracelets and still depends on our lives. Even if we threatened to kill him, he only promised to incapacitate us.

He does not know with certainity if he can force the creature in his service again - or if he can even overcome it on its turf, really. He can hope to do so and lash at us anyway, but that would be too risky. He has too much to lose for choosing poorly.

Theoretically, we would be able to ask the creature to power up the spell one last time for TFM to cross on the other side (we won't, but that's besides the point). I don't think he can afford risking to kill the hostage and alienate us in those circumstances, and that gives us time to remind him just how stupid threatening us is.

Di provides us with uncertainities to play upon. There is a multitude of outcomes, and each can be used by a smart person to their advantage. If the creature attacks us, TFM would not have time for the hostage. If the creature tries to escape, TFM would not have time for the hostage. If the creature attacks him... you get the idea. It is meant as a distraction, something that shuffles the cards, and it does its job.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Yes, there's a multitude of possibilities of what could happen. Honestly, I think a very (if not most) likely outcome in Dii will be to default to Di as the creature will immediately drop the gate. Not because of some malice or because it is not grateful, but because there is no time to properly explain to it what it needs to do. We can literally only say a couple of words while we are freeing it and hope it understands and is ready and able to act. But in that case we are in exactly the same position we would be in Di. Hell, with TFM so close to passing through Di could very well turn into Dii with a bit of luck. He is only a couple of steps from the gate, and it will take at least some time to release the creature. Dii is just about increasing the odds of that happening.

 

[Nevill]

It was said that we have time to free/kill the creature before TFM crosses the gate, and that it is in pain from maintaining it. Unless told otherwise, it will drop the spell the moment we free it.

Di won't magically turn into Dii, though the opposite might happen. I just prefer the possibilities of the former to the ones of the latter.

But I guess I am not convincing anyone, so...

 

[Kz3r0]

On that note, I'd like to ask you, Kz3r0, what really motivates you to choose this course of action? I get Zero Credibility's sentiment of 'when will you finally die, you bunch of old degenerates?!', but you did strike me as a more level-headed person.

We already wasted the opportunity to dispose of Mazzarin when we could.
There aren't many opportunities to off an archmage, this is a one in a million of that opportunities, and we have already passed on to get rid of him by giving the bracelets to Mazzarin, let's face it, sooner or later The Faceless Man will manage to overcome us if we continue to wear them.
For the timing we can just to wait to free the creature when he enters the gate, no need to ask for anything, and if it fails we can just pretend that we thought that he had already passed through the gate when we freed the creature.