Nahlakh and Natuk

[Desktop Commander]

Nahlakh is one of those games that I always wanted to try but kept forgetting about, due to being distracted by other games and/or work. So thanks for this thread - just rolled my 8 characters and am ready to go!

this is one of those 'time limit' RPGs. The longer you take the more expensive everything becomes from merchants and I think the less money you get selling loot.

This is something I was wondering about: Could you or mondblut perhaps elaborate a bit on how far this goes (and how quickly it happens)? Will merchants eventually stop buying anything (or give you 0 money for selling loot)? Also, the hint book's paragraph about the time limit also talks about an increase in "green blooded enemies" over time - anyone know what this is about (demons maybe)?

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

Almost any enemy can be a demon. So for example you fight a group of 20 kobolds and 3 of them might be demons and thus more powerful, but you won't find out which ones until you hit them and they bleed green.

There's plenty of weapons around with "demon" prefix. They are quite powerful, but the catch is they don't work against demons. Might even heal them, don't remember. And the limited carry capacity means you might not want to carry around a full armory with you, so you might end up in a fight where all your fighters have completely useless weapons.

 

[mondblut]

This is something I was wondering about: Could you or mondblut perhaps elaborate a bit on how far this goes (and how quickly it happens)? Will merchants eventually stop buying anything (or give you 0 money for selling loot)?

I did not notice that. It's not like you can find anything useful in shops past a certain point anyway, it's an RPG after all so somewhere midway into the game money becomes irrelevant (ok, Natuk had enchanters to add plusses to your stuff and it was a colossal gold sink, but I can't remember if Nahlakh did... I vaguely remember Nahlakh having trainers raising your stats for money, but could be mistaken).

Also, the hint book's paragraph about the time limit also talks about an increase in "green blooded enemies" over time - anyone know what this is about (demons maybe)?

Yep, them. Basically what Joined-4-7 said above. Lategame features more of them, but I can't say whether it depends on time sunk in or merely plot/area progression.

 

[Desktop Commander]

Exactly the info I was looking for - thanks a lot, you two!

 

[Fowyr]

elaborate a bit on how far this goes (and how quickly it happens)? Will merchants eventually stop buying anything (or give you 0 money for selling loot)? Also, the hint book's paragraph about the time limit also talks about an increase in "green blooded enemies" over time - anyone know what this is about (demons maybe)?

Moneys are not important, but generally demon enemies are pain in the ass. Not even because of their toughness, but because they are immune to many status spells that are staple in mage's book and fight to death until lost all HP. Regular enemies can become unconscious, right?

 

[mondblut]

fight to death until lost all HP. Regular enemies can become unconscious, right?

Yup, precisely.

 

[SkeleTony]

Game is mostly pretty easy compared to Nahlakh but you can jack the difficulty up to %500 if you need.

Yes, and arbitrarily at any given time. And... it also jacks up experience to 500%. You now know what to do, no need to thank me for ruining your game

Oh i have beaten Natuk at leaast 16 times since 1998, mostly on %500 difficulty so you are not spoiling my game. It was Nahlakh that I never beat.


Edit: Also I have added to my post above about the games. Will add more later.

 

[mondblut]

Oh i have beaten Natuk at leaast 16 times since 1998, mostly on %500 difficulty so you are not spoiling my game. It was Nahlakh that I never beat.

That was addressed to the OP and other newcomers, I know you're pro

 

[octavius]

Character generation has been a major hurdle to starting this game for me, since the character generation system is really designed for players who already knows the game. And there is no pregenerated party, either.

Anyway, I finally decided on the following party:

Half-Ogre Fighter
Dwarf Fighter
Elf Fighter/Wizard
Human Priest
Human Priestess
Gnome Wizard
Halfling Wizard
Faun Thief/Bard/Archer
(Multi-culturalism is great - in CRPGs and in theory.)

Only problem is that the Elf doesn't get any Magic skill, even if I give him 100 IN. I tried all the different Elf icons, with the same result.
The cluebook says Elves "sometimes" get an increase in Magic skill, but if it does it doesn't show on the character generation screen despite rerolling about 100 times.
So is it not possible to make an Elf with Magic skill?

 

[Desktop Commander]

I don't have any elves in my current party but all the magic users I had created started with the Magic skill in their list. The manual says that the Magic skill can't be increased/gained unless you start with it, but maybe elves start with a really low skill level so that it doesn't show in your list, since skill values below 34 aren't displayed (but you can still use the skills in question and increase their values).

Also, make sure that you have someone with a decent hunting skill in your party - that's the one skill I neglected and I kind of regret it now (hunting wastes a lot of time, is a pain to raise, and stores don't always stock enough food).

 

[TigerKnee]

You two started playing this game at the same time or something?

Give me some party gen tips once you gotten far enough to know what's "good"

 

[Desktop Commander]

I started my playthrough in March but am taking my time (work + other games keeping me busy). Make sure to cover all utility skills (some are unused though - check the manual/cluebook for those) and specialize wrt. combat skills.

Weapons other than swords, daggers, and spears (iirc) are hard to come by in the beginning, so consider that if you want to roll a polearms, axe, 2H-weaponse, etc. user (make sure they have a decent fallback melee skill for the early game). There is a guaranteed silver axe that can be found in the first town, though you need to search around a bit and pass at least one combat encounter.

But I'm not very far along yet, so you might want to ask Mondblut and/or Skeletony, who should be able to give you much better advice than me.

 

[mindx2]

Not sure if this was posted here or not but the full version of Natuk is now free: http://www.proudft.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=5.0

 

[Desktop Commander]

Not sure if this was posted here or not but the full version of Natuk is now free: http://www.proudft.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=5.0

It wasn't and I was just about to post a thread about this. It seems like this already happened a month ago or so but I, too, only discovered it today.

 

[CryptRat]

Not sure if this was posted here or not but the full version of Natuk is now free: http://www.proudft.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=5.0

Thanks a lot for the news, I have always wanted to play this one.

 

[octavius]

I don't have any elves in my current party but all the magic users I had created started with the Magic skill in their list. The manual says that the Magic skill can't be increased/gained unless you start with it, but maybe elves start with a really low skill level so that it doesn't show in your list, since skill values below 34 aren't displayed (but you can still use the skills in question and increase their values).

That's what I too thought at first, but then I reread the manual which says:

A character WILL NOT be able to
cast spells unless you pick one of the following images:

The red, blue, and gray wizards are mages.
The white, blue, green, and black priests are priests.
The purple and blue-robed women are priestesses.
The small brown halfling with glowing hands is a mage.
The black-robed woman is a mage.

None of these are elves or half-elves.
So the magic bonus for elves and half-elves are actually wasted!

Oh well, I've played around with the game a bit, and the combat is very similar to Wizard's Crown (inlcuding the very large packs of enemies you face), but unlike WC I feel that I have control, which is a huge improvement.

Talked to a pirate guy in the starting town who mentioned he'd lost his cutlass in the swamps. So I headed over there and got attacked by a pack of snakes and one of my guys got poisoned (funny how you always face poisonous critters before your priests learn Cure Poison). So I think I'll head south for the kobolds instead. Loot + no poison is so much more attractive.
But is there a dungeon in the swamps?

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

But is there a dungeon in the swamps?

No, you just need to

Spoiler

search one of the tiles on the overworld map to get the cutlass. (If I remember right)

 

[octavius]

But is there a dungeon in the swamps?

No, you just need to

Spoiler

search one of the tiles on the overworld map to get the cutlass. (If I remember right)

You were right; found a +1 Cutlass.
So much for the stupid cluebook saying the Search skill has no effect!

 

[octavius]

After learning a bit more about the game I decided to roll a new party, pretty much like the previous one, except I made a Priest with 80 INT to be a jack of all trades (except Lockpicks and Hunting). I reckon the low STR and HT, and poor combat skills will be more than comensated by high Merchant, Search, Prayer and Music skills.

The hint book lists all the spells, and Tom Proudfoot says it's not cheating to look them up. But doesn't it remove a fun aspect of the game - spell experimenting and finding new syllables from books?

My impression so far is that magic is rather overpowered. It doesn't take much in-game time to regain "mana" or ST, and attack spells have unlimited range. So if you can find a good defensible position and block it with a few unconcious enemies, you can just cast spells, rest a bit, and cast spells again.

 

[octavius]

Fuck is this...my bard's harp broke?!? Is that normal, and does it happen to every instrument?

Also, does the program tell which spells enemies cast, if any? I'm facing lots of Kobold Shamans, but they don't seem to be casting any spells.

 

[SkeleTony]

I have never had a musical instrument break (but I have rarely used such) but can you 'r'epair it with blacksmith skill (if nahlakh even has such a skill as I do not remember ATM) like in Natuk?

It appears from that walkthrough someone above posted (Thanks for that!) I only made it almost half way through the game (not the 2/3rds I originally thought).

Kobold shamans should be casting spells (IIRC low level magical missile type spells and healing) but Nahlakh may not give great indication of this. The casters single frame of animation (the 'attack' frame) is usually them raising their glowing hands up and I think a sound effect occurs.

Elf characters: Does seem odd that they cannot start as 'Wizards' but their increased magic skill can come into play as long as you find some spell books and then repeatedly try to cast those spells in combat (or outside of combat?), thus raising the skill.

You are correct that, for a new-ish player it is more fun to actually learn the spells in game and experiment. The lists in the hint book are just a convenience for veterans mostly.

I am currently destroying the dwarf fortress in Natuk (again!) at 500% so Nahlakh will have to wait for me.

Of minor interest: Tom was remaking Nahlakh like 10 years ago (sometime after he released POWS) and I had done like a dozen or so new icons for the game (which was only going to use 3 frames of 'standing/guarding, attack and death) but my HD got wiped by some nasty virus a lot of people were hit with back then and health issues kind of got in my way anyway after that. As placeholder graphics he was using those freeware roguelike tiles by...David someone-or-other IIRC (same ones used in the TKed Angband variants).

 

[Desktop Commander]

Yup, spells are super useful and also the reason why I didn't roll another party: My melee dudes can't hit the broad side of a barn but it doesn't matter, since all they need to do is block everyone + swing and miss to train their skills while my spellcasters slowly whittle everyone down.

You can also learn spells by observing your enemies - the game actually tells you the name of each spell as it is cast. Unfortunately, it only does so for a split second and I haven't found a way to display them for longer without slowing loading times down to a crawl.

After learning a bit more about the game I decided to roll a new party, pretty much like the previous one, except I made a Priest with 80 INT to be a jack of all trades (except Lockpicks and Hunting). I reckon the low STR and HT, and poor combat skills will be more than comensated by high Merchant, Search, Prayer and Music skills.

Wait, isn't Search one of the skills that doesn't actually do anything? I seem to recall the Search command to always work, regardless of your skill level in it (though I might be mistaken).

 

[octavius]

According to the hint book Search "has no effect", which obviosuly is wrong, as you need to do the Search command to find the +1 Cutlass in the swamp and the secret door in the first town.
But I guess it can be construed to mean that the skill has no effect, and as you say the Search command always work. Oh well, having one Priest with high Prayer seems to make Healing Up quite effective, so I still think it was worth maxing out INT on one of my priests.

 

[Desktop Commander]

Yes, that's rather misleading, unfortunately. I just checked the hintbook again and it states Search as one of the skills with no effect, which is separate from the Search command (i.e., (S)earch works as intended but doesn't take your skill levels into account).

Maxing INT was definitely a good choice on your part - my max INT witch is doing significantly better than my other spell casters. If I had to roll a new party, I would mostly go for high/max DEX on my melee dudes and INT for my spell casters, with maybe one late-bloomer hybrid, since skill levels are super important and take some time to raise.

 

[octavius]

I must have killed more kobolds than I did in Pool of Radiance now, but I have yet to see a Kobold Shaman cast a spell, even when turning CPU cycles down to 500.
It's a pity every combat so far is nearly the same, with huge numbers of weak enemies. Usually I enjoy massacring hordes of weaklings, but not when it takes so bloody long time. There should have been a Sweep attack like in the Gold Box games. Lack of crowd control spells like a simple Sleep does not help either.