Warhammer Necromunda: Underhive Wars - tactical RPG from Mordheim devs

[Mefi]

I really like the art they've done for this. With the gangs and there's some gorgeous looking maps as well. Particular favorite is a mushroom farm. But the near cut and paste symmetry to the gangs just kills any desire for me to even bother reinstalling. I can possibly see some of the differences between gangs mattering in a long campaign against human players but compstomping skirmishes you can build however you want and still be bored at how little effort is needed to roll over AI gangs who all have identical compositions and play styles. Shame it faceplanted as it did but they're charging a lot for what boil down to reskins and maybe one unique skill.

 

[Technomancer]

I really like the art they've done for this. With the gangs and there's some gorgeous looking maps as well. But the near cut and paste symmetry to the gangs just kills any desire for me to even bother reinstalling.

The saddest part of it all. All effort went into the visuals leaving the game a shallow shell. They really need to release modding tools, fans can't fix the fundamental issues but they can create a total overhaul that is much more enjoyable to play.

 

[Mefi]

The saddest part of it all. All effort went into the visuals leaving the game a shallow shell. They really need to release modding tools, fans can't fix the fundamental issues but they can create a total overhaul that is much more enjoyable to play.

The art style is really where Games Workshop are pretty prescriptive so I have a bit of sympathy towards why that needs to look like it does. Artists have had the grimdark down to a T for years, haven't they? It's only DoW3 which really managed to screw that up with its bright, factory fresh colours and visual effects overload. I'd be interested in what modders could do but, as you imply, it'd require a great deal of effort to gut what is there to even begin getting this working as an enjoyable TTB. Part which makes me really sad about the art is there's loading screens of the gangs in action and I want to play the game the artists drew for those.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

An actual squad based RPG campaign. Using the Necromunda engine, etc.

 

[Technomancer]

The art style is really where Games Workshop are pretty prescriptive so I have a bit of sympathy towards why that needs to look like it does.

They care most about the money like any proper soulless corporation. CA's Warhammer Fantasy game was so ridiculously successful that GW high on cash allowed them to do whatever. They still advise them and approve everything but they are basically creating full game races that were only mentioned in the background lore without having any army books or models. The new game will have fantasy chineese as a race for example.

But they did kill the fantasy setting anyway and they indeed are a bit more prescriptive with 40K.

 

[Mefi]

They care most about the money like any proper soulless corporation. CA's Warhammer Fantasy game was so ridiculously successful that GW high on cash allowed them to do whatever. They still advise them and approve everything but they are basically creating full game races that were only mentioned in the background lore without having any army books or models. The new game will have fantasy chineese as a race for example.

But they did kill the fantasy setting anyway and they indeed are a bit more prescriptive with 40K.

It's kind of off on a tangent but even for CA's WH it's Mark Bedford (GW's senior designer) who does the original concept art and style bible and then CA's concept artists work from that. They learned not to outsource other people designing their models for them a long, long way back when they had to go back and retcon a ton of stuff due to contested rights.

 

[baud]

They care most about the money like any proper soulless corporation. CA's Warhammer Fantasy game was so ridiculously successful that GW high on cash allowed them to do whatever. They still advise them and approve everything but they are basically creating full game races that were only mentioned in the background lore without having any army books or models. The new game will have fantasy chineese as a race for example.

But they did kill the fantasy setting anyway and they indeed are a bit more prescriptive with 40K.

It's kind of off on a tangent but even for CA's WH it's Mark Bedford (GW's senior designer) who does the original concept art and style bible and then CA's concept artists work from that. They learned not to outsource other people designing their models for them a long, long way back when they had to go back and retcon a ton of stuff due to contested rights.

yeah, it was visible on the TW:WH3 trailer where CA used designs for Kislev that were produced by GW for their reboot of Warhammer Fantasy

 

[Mefi]

yeah, it was visible on the TW:WH3 trailer where CA used designs for Kislev that were produced by GW for their reboot of Warhammer Fantasy

Yeah. eg The polar bear pic released by GW for WH Fantasy is by Kameliya Minkova, based on Bedford's original work on designing Kislev fully from ground up, and obviously intended to work both as a model on TT and in a computer game. It's a rare WH computer game which messes up visually as a result of them being pretty in control of how things should look. Masochist fanbase though who'll too readily forget that 'how it plays' matters too and throw money at some absolute tat. Or the 'Focus' business model using WH IP'.

 

[Elex]

They care most about the money like any proper soulless corporation. CA's Warhammer Fantasy game was so ridiculously successful that GW high on cash allowed them to do whatever. They still advise them and approve everything but they are basically creating full game races that were only mentioned in the background lore without having any army books or models. The new game will have fantasy chineese as a race for example.

But they did kill the fantasy setting anyway and they indeed are a bit more prescriptive with 40K.

Fantasy was never killed, they planned a full reboot while splitting the game in 2 ages. Like war 40k also have a horus heresy setting.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

I admit I havent folowed Warhammer Fantasy that closely in the last years (being a 40K person) so someone might correct me, but it was my understanding that the world in which WHF took place was litteraly destroyed and ceased to exist - there was a series of novels published by Black Library that dealt with the whole thing. I didnt read those novels but I saw some TLDR summary and IIRC the Empire was pretty much overan by all the baddies (like Skaven conquering Nuln and such) and then there was some kind of a fight between the gods that destroyed the world itself.

So I would say that WHF is a dead setting and it was replaced by Age of Shitmar as a prequel, because WHF sales werent that good (this was however largely GW´s fault due to highly complex rules, bad balance between armies and poor support in general) and also because of the IP/trademark problems that werent as easy to solve as in case of 40K (ie you can rename Stormtroopers to Tempestus Scions, but they could hardly rename stuff like Empire or Greatswords, so they came up with Stormcast Eternals etc instead).

Regarding the reboot, GW announced Warhammer: Old World in 2019 with expected release in 2022 - this should bring back WHF with new army books and minis, we will see if they retcon the end of the world story-wise or not. In any case Total War: Warhammer was likely the main reason for this reboot, as it shown that the setting can be popular if marketed properly.

 

[Storyfag]

So I would say that WHF is a dead setting and it was replaced by Age of Shitmar as a prequel

Sequel, as a matter of fact. Despite the name, the Age of Sigmar is not about the time Sigmar was a not!Conan roaming the world, but about what came after the destruction of the Warhammer world.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

When Cawdor comes, I'll upgrade.

I think I'll wait for Scotland then.

 

[Fedora Master]

I don't understand how they could fuck up Necromunda when Mordheim was a solid game.

 

[Elex]

it was my understanding that the world in which WHF took place was litteraly destroyed and ceased to exist - there was a series of novels published by Black Library that dealt with the whole thing. I didnt read those novels but I saw some TLDR summary and IIRC the Empire was pretty much overan by all the baddies (like Skaven conquering Nuln and such) and then there was some kind of a fight between the gods that destroyed the world itself.

You know, fantasy settings don’t work like that.
Look at horus heresy.

stop looking at the retard that burned the books because they got no new update.
Only because sonething is not updated because not generating money din’t mean they throw away an IP.

 

[Tyranicon]

I don't understand how they could fuck up Necromunda when Mordheim was a solid game.

Probably something to do with personnel changes if I'm in a gambling mood. Talented devs left, project gets mired in suck. Story as old as time.

 

[baud]

I admit I havent folowed Warhammer Fantasy that closely in the last years (being a 40K person) so someone might correct me, but it was my understanding that the world in which WHF took place was litteraly destroyed and ceased to exist - there was a series of novels published by Black Library that dealt with the whole thing. I didnt read those novels but I saw some TLDR summary and IIRC the Empire was pretty much overan by all the baddies (like Skaven conquering Nuln and such) and then there was some kind of a fight between the gods that destroyed the world itself.

So I would say that WHF is a dead setting and it was replaced by Age of Shitmar as a prequel, because WHF sales werent that good (this was however largely GW´s fault due to highly complex rules, bad balance between armies and poor support in general) and also because of the IP/trademark problems that werent as easy to solve as in case of 40K (ie you can rename Stormtroopers to Tempestus Scions, but they could hardly rename stuff like Empire or Greatswords, so they came up with Stormcast Eternals etc instead).

Regarding the reboot, GW announced Warhammer: Old World in 2019 with expected release in 2022 - this should bring back WHF with new army books and minis, we will see if they retcon the end of the world story-wise or not. In any case Total War: Warhammer was likely the main reason for this reboot, as it shown that the setting can be popular if marketed properly.

From what I remember of GW's announcement and what I read about it, they're putting the rebooted setting 300 years before the old timeline (or something like that, during the time of the three Emperors), so apparently they're not retconning the End Times for WH: The Old World.

 

[Citizen]

but it was my understanding that the world in which WHF took place was litteraly destroyed and ceased to exist

Madmen actually pulled out a HoMM4?

 

[Parsimonious cook]

Probably something to do with personnel changes if I'm in a gambling mood. Talented devs left, project gets mired in suck. Story as old as time.

Yeah this is pretty jarring to me as well - I looked forward to Necromunda since I liked Mordheim a lot and thought that they will follow the same formula which is pretty great for a skirmish game, ie. random missions where you grind for loot and XP which are meat and potatoes of the game accompanied by a series of carefully handcrafted story missions. You select your faction/gang, decide the combat team composition, level your gangers up etc, if they added some kind of turf/base management this would be golden. Instead they came up with a linear campaign where you switch sides every five minutes, so there is no way to create attachment to your gang, the AI was ridiculously bad and the game was janky as fuck (even in comparison to Mordheim, which says a lot). This was supposed to be a slam dunk and the fact that the devs fucked up this bad is just sad.

You know, fantasy settings don’t work like that.
Look at horus heresy.

stop looking at the retard that burned the books because they got no new update.
Only because sonething is not updated because not generating money din’t mean they throw away an IP.

Of course - they wont throw the IP away, which is the funny part of this whole deal. GW thought that people dont like the setting anymore because it doesnt hold up, they failed to realise that WHF sales were dropping because of their shitty approach to it. WHF as an IP is still worth much more than Age of Shitmar, there is plenty of successful vidya (Vermintide and TW: WH being the best examples) and the generaly high interest WHF generated lately (I mean TW: WH could have easily ended like the Thrones of Britannia, if people didnt like the setting anymore) is a proof that setting itself was never a problem. I wonder if GW regrets killing the storyline now (I sure hope they do). Still, as it is the setting itself can go no further since there is a canonical ending to it in which the world gets nuked (if they set the Old World 300 years before the original time-line it is a further proof of this). I am just glad they didnt nuke 40K in the same way (though of course they came close to it).

As for the Horus Heresy comparison, the HH is constantly getting new Black Library books and as a setting it seems pretty lively, if I am not mistaken WHF is only getting re-releases of the classic books which are now being branded as Warhammer Chronicles.

Madmen actually pulled out a HoMM4?

Yeah, its pretty similar to Enroth being destroyed in HoMM4 actually.

 

[baud]

I am just glad they didnt nuke 40K in the same way (though of course they came close to it).

I don't think GW had any reason to nuke the 40k universe, in recent history it has apparently been the biggest earner compared to WHFB.

 

[Parsimonious cook]

Yes, 40K has been their main money maker since the 90s I guess.

The thing is that the storyline was also stagnant for a pretty long time and they apparently wanted to move the setting forward somehow. What they did is somewhat similar to the WHF situation, except Chaos didnt win completely, they only broke through the Cadian Gate and cut half of the Imperium off from the Astronomican, but its not all bad, since Roboute Guilliman is back, Primaris Marines are a thing etc. I was kinda afraid that GW will pull something like "the universe ended and now we are in a new dimension," which is what I meant by nuking. What happened in the end isnt as far reaching, but the timeline of 40K setting still moved quite a lot in new direction.

 

[Storyfag]

From what I remember of GW's announcement and what I read about it, they're putting the rebooted setting 300 years before the old timeline (or something like that, during the time of the three Emperors)

Vampire Wars galore, then. Wise choice. Before the foundation of the Colour Colleges. Very wise choice.

 

[baud]

Yes, 40K has been their main money maker since the 90s I guess.

The thing is that the storyline was also stagnant for a pretty long time and they apparently wanted to move the setting forward somehow. What they did is somewhat similar to the WHF situation, except Chaos didnt win completely, they only broke through the Cadian Gate and cut half of the Imperium off from the Astronomican, but its not all bad, since Roboute Guilliman is back, Primaris Marines are a thing etc. I was kinda afraid that GW will pull something like "the universe ended and now we are in a new dimension," which is what I meant by nuking. What happened in the end isnt as far reaching, but the timeline of 40K setting still moved quite a lot in new direction.

yeah, the changes with the timeline advancing were mostly good, but I'm not a big fan of the primaris marines, if they really wanted to sell new marine models, they could just have explained it as the mechanicus stopping to fondle toasters for a few decades and building up a new armor generation and some new tanks. Though now that ships has sailed and I don't think GW will ever retcon this.

 

[Storyfag]

Yes, 40K has been their main money maker since the 90s I guess.

The thing is that the storyline was also stagnant for a pretty long time and they apparently wanted to move the setting forward somehow. What they did is somewhat similar to the WHF situation, except Chaos didnt win completely, they only broke through the Cadian Gate and cut half of the Imperium off from the Astronomican, but its not all bad, since Roboute Guilliman is back, Primaris Marines are a thing etc. I was kinda afraid that GW will pull something like "the universe ended and now we are in a new dimension," which is what I meant by nuking. What happened in the end isnt as far reaching, but the timeline of 40K setting still moved quite a lot in new direction.

yeah, the changes with the timeline advancing were mostly good, but I'm not a big fan of the primaris marines, if they really wanted to sell new marine models, they could just have explained it as the mechanicus stopping to fondle toasters for a few decades and building up a new armor generation and some new tanks. Though now that ships has sailed and I don't think GW will ever retcon this.

The best Change of all happened to the Fenris system. Remember Prospero!

 

[Technomancer]

 

[Mefi]

Probably something to do with personnel changes if I'm in a gambling mood. Talented devs left, project gets mired in suck. Story as old as time.

No idea about personnel, but designing a system which didn't work and fell to bits in alpha testing which in turn left under a year til a non-negotiable release date for Mordheim to be bolted on wholesale while also working on a second game started under the assumption Necromunda was on its way to a smooth launch...

Even now they've not released patch notes for what they've changed in the patch this morning. People waiting on finding out if MP is finally stable enough to be worth trying again or whether the bug corrupting campaign saves (enforced ironman too) has finally been identified and fixed. It all feels overstretched and under-resourced for what they'd been hoping to do.