Neverwinter new pics - OH GAWD ITZ HEAVAN

[Zeriel]

WoW is a much better game than Neverwinter... and WoW is pretty bad these days.

The only thing that recommends Neverwinter is that it is free. For some people, that's highly important.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Neverwinter has probably the most genuinely meaningful character development around in present MMOs, precisely because instead of giving you everything at once as a lite version, each power or spell (even before getting into differences between classes) in NW has genuine and extremely noticiable effect like jagged-jimmy said. Add to this various permutations you can do with feat paths and class features picked, and you've got a very good example of less-is-more from a design perspective. There's two things Neverwinter does better than the rest: First is combat, second is the Foundry.

Furthermore, claiming NW is pay2win is pretty much nothing but a load of bullshit. Past T1 epic/blue mix, gear becomes secondary to player skill due to diminishing returns starting to kick in hard. Knowing WHAT and HOW you're going to do is vastly more important than getting Ancient armor sets or Fomorian weapon sets. This is even without mentioning the fact you have to be either a moron or a liar to think NW has noticiable grind. The only grind content is the Campaign system, where the daily grind is... ~15 minutes. It's timegated to just last for a long period of time. Cash and Astral Diamonds? You can use a website to queue up projects that get you boatloads of both.

There's one genuinely pay2win thing in the cash-shop. And that's character slots. Each additional character running Leadership at rank 20 is that much more daily cashflow.

 

[Xenich]

Neverwinter has probably the most genuinely meaningful character development around in present MMOs, precisely because instead of giving you everything at once as a lite version, each power or spell (even before getting into differences between classes) in NW has genuine and extremely noticiable effect like jagged-jimmy said. Add to this various permutations you can do with feat paths and class features picked, and you've got a very good example of less-is-more from a design perspective. There's two things Neverwinter does better than the rest: First is combat, second is the Foundry.

It is extremely linear in its design, it is "dumbed down" because they specifically focus your build options for you. Now granted I haven't played since release, so maybe they did some overhauls, but I hit the game pretty hard during that time looking at the details and the game was very limited, very narrow in character development and focus. Granted, WoW these days is just as dumbed down and linear in its design. When I talk about character development, I am talking about actual character development such as you see in DDO. DDO is hands down more complicated and in depth in its system than Neverwinter, there is no argument here.

Furthermore, claiming NW is pay2win is pretty much nothing but a load of bullshit. Past T1 epic/blue mix, gear becomes secondary to player skill due to diminishing returns starting to kick in hard. Knowing WHAT and HOW you're going to do is vastly more important than getting Ancient armor sets or Fomorian weapon sets. This is even without mentioning the fact you have to be either a moron or a liar to think NW has noticiable grind. The only grind content is the Campaign system, where the daily grind is... ~15 minutes. It's timegated to just last for a long period of time. Cash and Astral Diamonds? You can use a website to queue up projects that get you boatloads of both.

There's one genuinely pay2win thing in the cash-shop. And that's character slots. Each additional character running Leadership at rank 20 is that much more daily cashflow.

That is because people keep redefining what "pay2win" means. It means paying real money to bypass, enhance, gain advantage, etc... over actually playing within the game to achieve it. I know, I know, this gets lots of peoples panties in a bunch because they have convinced themselves that all these FTP game systems don't have these cheat gimmicks in them. They have conditioned themselves to believe that their game really isn't such when the fact is every game that is FTP IS pay to win as they can not survive on worthless non-advantage sales alone (ie The Secret World is an example).

Now even though I think DDO's character development is far superior, that game is just as PTW as well. I am not here to argue which is a better game, but Neverwinter is not a "deep" character development system, or... at least it wasn't at all when I tried it.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

It's only pay2win if you NEED to do it. Currently there is absolutely no need to do it. The only one redefining "pay2win" here is YOU, as currently your definition of it is roughly on the level "you can use money on the game".

Your comments about NW character development reek more about the kind of shallow viewpoint that more = better. If that was the qualifier of any game mechanic, FATAL would be the best PnP game ever made instead of the very worst. Neverwinter's character system is a very good example of less-is-more, as the number of choices is correlated by the meaningfulness of those choices and the amount of synergy options presented by them. A good example of this is the recent addition of Sword Master paragon path for Guardian Fighter, where there was much talk about the tradeoff of the very excellent AoE attack power Frontline Surge that the Iron Vanguard paragon path has. But on a different level, you can realize that Guardian Fighter can actually make superior use of Steel Defense class feature, as a Guardian Fighter can be specced to build up AP *really* fast and has a certain something called Supremacy of Steel as a daily, which can trigger the feature twice and directly benefits from it due to being a counter damage ability that would normally depend just on your ability to use Guard effectively, but now gives you a five second freebie counter time you can use to recover your Guard gauge and attract aggro with impunity. A very simple and effective example of the simple but meaningful choices you have to make with your build, and which has direct and noticiable effect in combat.

 

[Gerrard]

Sure is /v/ around here.

When I talk about character development, I am talking about actual character development such as you see in DDO. DDO is hands down more complicated and in depth in its system than Neverwinter, there is no argument here.

Complexity for complexity's sake does not equal depth. Just because you have the option to fuck your character up in 50 different ways does not make it better.

 

[Xenich]

It's only pay2win if you NEED to do it. Currently there is absolutely no need to do it. The only one redefining "pay2win" here is YOU, as currently your definition of it is roughly on the level "you can use money on the game".

???

Umm... you just redefined it there. Pay to win is paying real money to circumvent gameplay. Period. If it is not a mechanic within the game, then you are cheating the game by doing it.

Your comments about NW character development reek more about the kind of shallow viewpoint that more = better.
If that was the qualifier of any game mechanic, FATAL would be the best PnP game ever made instead of the very worst. Neverwinter's character system is a very good example of less-is-more, as the number of choices is correlated by the meaningfulness of those choices and the amount of synergy options presented by them. A good example of this is the recent addition of Sword Master paragon path for Guardian Fighter, where there was much talk about the tradeoff of the very excellent AoE attack power Frontline Surge that the Iron Vanguard paragon path has. But on a different level, you can realize that Guardian Fighter can actually make superior use of Steel Defense class feature, as a Guardian Fighter can be specced to build up AP *really* fast and has a certain something called Supremacy of Steel as a daily, which can trigger the feature twice and directly benefits from it due to being a counter damage ability that would normally depend just on your ability to use Guard effectively, but now gives you a five second freebie counter time you can use to recover your Guard gauge and attract aggro with impunity. A very simple and effective example of the simple but meaningful choices you have to make with your build, and which has direct and noticiable effect in combat.

Not sure what your point is. So, a tank class with a defense skill that well... builds aggro? Oh... what to choose while one is rolling ones face over their keyboard! /boggle

 

[Gerrard]

Redefined your, retarded, definition maybe.

 

[Xenich]

Sure is /v/ around here.

When I talk about character development, I am talking about actual character development such as you see in DDO. DDO is hands down more complicated and in depth in its system than Neverwinter, there is no argument here.

Complexity for complexity's sake does not equal depth. Just because you have the option to fuck your character up in 50 different ways does not make it better.

Can't screw your character up if you pre-plan it and considering that is how the pen and paper game was played (ie you outlined how you would build your character up the levels before you even started playing them), I would say those who are "fucking up their characters" are likely at fault.

As for "complex for complexities sake", care to provide some examples?

 

[Bubbles]

Maybe we should compromise on "pay to greatly improve your character"?

 

[Gerrard]

What does that have to do with anything? My point was that it doesn't matter how many possibilities you have when there are only 1 or 2 optimal builds. In Neverwinter every class has at least 2, but the game doesn't dangle fake possibilities in front of you.

 

[Xenich]

Redefined your, retarded, definition maybe.

Not my definition, it is the definition.

A game has rules. To win a game, you play by the rules achieving the objectives. If you do not play the game by the rules and pay money to circumvent them to achieve your objective, you are... "Paying to win", rather than... "playing to win".

See, a little logic will go a long ways.

 

[Xenich]

What does that have to do with anything? My point was that it doesn't matter how many possibilities you have when there are only 1 or 2 optimal builds. In Neverwinter every class has at least 2, but the game doesn't dangle fake possibilities in front of you.

Examples please. What are these fake possibilities?

 

[Xenich]

Maybe we should compromise on "pay to greatly improve your character"?

Same problem. One of the primary objectives in an MMORPG is to develop your character (Gear, Levels, Skills, etc...) and so... if one "pays" to gain those (Exp, boosts, etc...), then one is circumventing the requirements of winning an objective by paying... ie "Pay to Win"

 

[Gerrard]

Redefined your, retarded, definition maybe.

Not my definition, it is the definition.

The definition is "A game in which it is possible to purchase gameplay advantages using real money that cannot be acquired otherwise.".

Now fuck off back to /v/ already.

 

[Xenich]

Redefined your, retarded, definition maybe.

Not my definition, it is the definition.

The definition is "A game in which it is possible to purchase gameplay advantages using real money that cannot be acquired otherwise.".

Now fuck off back to /v/ already.

So, I use logic and you use wikipedia. Are you really that fucking stupid that you think quoting a wikipedia page means anything? I mean, especially one that specifically states the content within the page is contested?

Wow... you kids these days, fucking as dumb as they come.

 

[eklektyk]

obligatory :

Joined:
Mar 21, 2013
Messages:
103
.

 

[Xenich]

obligatory :

Joined:
Mar 21, 2013
Messages:
103
.

Not sure I follow you?

 

[jagged-jimmy]

obligatory :

Joined:
Mar 21, 2013
Messages:
103
.

Not sure I follow you?

We know you don't.

 

[yeye]

Have they fixed the queue system? Astral diamond refinement limit? The horrible daily grind? Have they removed the p2w enchants giving 30% extra damage you have to grind months for if you don't pay? Have they optimized the game so it doesn't drag while looking like a 2008 game? Have they added the other paragon paths for all classes? I played this on release and it was a mess I wouldn't recommend anyone. I just cannot reconcile the positivity I read here with my experience of the game.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Astral diamond refinement limit? The horrible daily grind? Have they removed the p2w enchants giving 30% extra damage you have to grind months for if you don't pay? Have they optimized the game so it doesn't drag while looking like a 2008 game? Have they added the other paragon paths for all classes?

1) Astral Diamond refining limit is just fine. Unless you're a madman that grinds too much with a single alt.
2) There's barely any daily grind, unless 15 minutes is a horrifying amount of effort you need to put in to make daily campaign progression.
3) 30% is a *vast* misunderstanding (or just an ignorant lie) for the effect enchantments have. Nobody is going to start winning just by getting a better enchantment. Moreover, the need for Coalescent Wards was reduced in the newest module.
4) The game's drag is mostly due to Jews. Namely, the fact they never upgrade their server capacity liberally and so you end with so many fucking people on Protector's Enclave the game can't keep up rendering the environment due to all the PCs and their companions.
5) All the classes (except the Ranger) got a second paragon path to choose from.

 

[yeye]

And you happen to miss the most important question? Why is that?

 

[jagged-jimmy]

What, queue system? It works fine, now you also do not require tank or cleric for skirmishes.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I'm not entirely really sure what exactly is wrong with it. You could always just go and find a team of reliable players. Playing with pugs comes with a price.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

I think he meant the issue, where you had full team in que and the dungeon did not start anyway. It was one of the problems at the very begining.

 

[Gerrard]

At first it didn't even have the class requirement so you'd end up with 5 DPS.