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Decline New King's Quest game - MASSIVE DECLINE Everything is shit

Joined
Aug 10, 2012
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5,894
You're reading too much into this.

You also don't need to knock Disney and/or Pixar down to make your point, even at their most saccharine, commercial worst they're 100x better than this tripe.

There's not much more to it - hipsters have no idea about what actually made the classic games good. It's the same with every reboot/remake out there right now, regardless of genre. Don't blame their cluelessness on a lack of "creative freedom", that's not it at all. I'm pretty sure they had full reign to do whatever the hell they wanted - they fucked up because they don't have a clue, and think too highly of themselves to ask the people who actually do have a clue for help.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
920
You're reading too much into this.

You also don't need to knock Disney and/or Pixar down to make your point, even at their most saccharine, commercial worst they're 100x better than this tripe.

There's not much more to it - hipsters have no idea about what actually made the classic games good. It's the same with every reboot/remake out there right now, regardless of genre. Don't blame their cluelessness on a lack of "creative freedom", that's not it at all. I'm pretty sure they had full reign to do whatever the hell they wanted - they fucked up because they don't have a clue, and think too highly of themselves to ask the people who actually do have a clue for help.

I'm referring not to the Disney classics of old, but to the recent Pixar-esque Disney films with their goofier, dumbed down humor. Compare say, the humorous bits in Sword and the Stone or Robin Hood to those in Frozen. It's a much goofier style of humor. Dumber. Sort of like Shrek. This game's humor is basically in the same style as that of Frozen, Tangled or Shrek; closest to Shrek. Also the deconstruction of classical fairy tale tropes and gender roles is present in both the recent Disney stuff and this game.

I really doubt with a soulless corporation like Activison helming it they had much freedom.
 

Jackalope

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inside a giant mech suit
All Activision wanted was to have a Telltale game. An old adventure game classic focusing on story and split into episodes. You can tell, it's pretty easy to notice the similiarities.

Not sure who decided to make the project into retelling of the entire King Graham story and messing up with the old games, but I'd guess it was the hipsters, trying to bite more than they could chew. I'm not really sure what ruins the game more - the stupid puzzles, the bad storytelling or the forced humor. Anyway, I don't hate the game either, it's just sad how much they missed the mark.

Honestly, if they made something smaller, maybe it would have worked. Something like a fairytale, a simple story. The hero needs to save some princess or beat some evil wizard or find some magical treasure...
 

Sceptic

Arcane
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10,872
Divinity: Original Sin
In retrospect, this game's failure isn't a surprise.
Why "in retrospect"? To those of us who didn't spend until a couple of weeks ago shilling for the game, this was obvious since day one (and the first page of this thread has some quality quotes, including felipe's spot-on "made by hipsters for tablets")
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
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In retrospect, this game's failure isn't a surprise.
Why "in retrospect"? To those of us who didn't spend until a couple of weeks ago shilling for the game, this was obvious since day one (and the first page of this thread has some quality quotes, including felipe's spot-on "made by hipsters for tablets")

Because I guess I should've seen it coming, in retrospect, it was easy to, but I really wanted to believe otherwise.
 
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I think we kind of expect too much. Outside of KQ6, the KQ series was all pretty sucky, wasn't it? Charming, but on closer examination, a bit on the sucky side....
KQ3 is, for me, one of the best adventure games of all time. KQ4 was pretty awesome too. I actually think KQ6 is overrated, although still a good game. KQ5 was kinda shit, the first two are pretty bad even on the early Sierra parser scale of things and I never played the later ones.

Still, I don't think people here "expected too much", except maybe for you. Pretty much everyone was sure this hipster shitshow was going to be exactly the absolute garbage that it turned out to be.
Well, fact is that when it comes to King's Quest, just like with Ultima, the third-to-last entry of the original (main) series run is generally the most fondly remembered (while for most other old series it's either the final entry or rather evenly distributed), so naturally most (UO maniacs aside) would want a sequel to resemble a prettied-up U7(-7.2)/KQ6, while some would rather see something resembling any one game of middle U4-6/KQ3-5 and almost nobody wants a return of early ventures U0-3/KQ0-2 or the respective wildly differing two-step decline of U8-9/KQ7-8, but we all knew that under the supervision of a major publisher (or almost any other) none of those wishes would ever come true, yet quite how (much) both this and Ultima Forever sucked still came as a surprise.

As someone not familiar really with the Ultima series, can you explain why Ultima Forever sucked?
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
920
I think the saddest part of this saga is how much potential there was for a really great game. You take the idea, the basic idea, of an elderly Graham telling stories which took place between the original games, and it's literally a license to tell epic stories that don't need to rely on the old games. There can be subtle, subtle winks and nods at the old games in hotspot interactions, but anything that needs to be told about the events of previous games could've been done so through exposition. The old games need not have been touched upon in any real way, positively or negativity; no retconning nor direct sequeling needed. I was rereading the original "fairy tale" story which came in the KQ1 manual, and it's amazing just how far they missed the enchanting nature of the series:

"A long, long time ago, when unicorns still roamed the forests and the merfolk still dwelt in the shallow waters frequented by men, there ruled in the kingdom of Daventry, King Edward and his lovely Queen. The people of Daventry were prosperous and happy, and everywhere peace reigned. But the King and Queen were sad because they were childless. They had no son to inherit the throne, nor a daughter to gladden their hearts.

One bright, sunny day, King Edward the Benevolent (for so he was called) and his Queen were walking in the castle garden when suddenly before them appeared a powerful sorceror.

"I know your problem, and I can cast a spell that will bring you a child," he said.

"Oh, great sorceror, if you can help us, we will be everlastingly grateful," said the Queen.

"We will bestow upon you many honors, and great riches," said the King.

"I have no use for honors or riches. My payment will not be so great. All I ask in return is the mahogany-framed Mirror that hangs in your private chamber."


The sorcerer's words gave them pause, for that Mirror was priceless. It had the power to read the future, and helped to keep Daventry prosperous. The royal couple used it to foretell the weather for planting and harvest, as had the kings and queens before them. It had been hundreds of years since a crop had been planted before the last frost, or had been ruined by autumn rain. What the sorcerer desired was indeed valuable. The King and Queen retired to their chamber to consult the magic Mirror.

King Edward and his wife gazed into the Mirror's depths and saw a young princely figure with a gold crown upon his head. Imagining the youth to be the son they yearned for, the royal couple gladly bestowed the Mirror upon the sorcerer. He took it to his dwelling, where he set one of his beasts to guard over it.

The months passed and the Queen did not conceive a child. For the first time in four hundred years, Daventry lost the harvest to an early autumn rainstorm. The King and Queen wept, and everyone tightened their belts. Instead of having excess produce to sell to neighboring kingdoms, the people of Daventry had to supplement their stores with food bought elsewhere.

With famine came the dreaded Plague, and the Queen was stricken. For three days she lay in the grip of a great fever, with Edward maintaining a constant vigil by her side.

On the fourth day of the Queen's illness, a diminutive figure pushed his way between the legs of the castle guards.

"I have a cure for the Queen," he claimed. Quickly the courtiers ushered him into the Queen's chamber, where the King despaired.

"I have traveled a great distance to bring relief to your dear wife. This powerful root known only to the dwarves will cure any plague."

The dwarf leaned over the Queen and touched the root to her lips. Her eyes fluttered open and she smiled at Edward.

The Queen's attendants looked at each other in wonderment. "Only a touch revived her," they whispered. "Imagine how fast she will recover when given the whole root."

"Ask any reward for this miraculous gift, oh small one," exclaimed King Edward.

"I ask in repayment the Shield left you by your father when he died," said the dwarf softly.

The King paled at the thought. The Shield, made of titanium and set with emeralds, was traditionally carried in battle by the ruler of Daventry. Legend held that he who bore the Shield was invincible, and his army always victorious. Thus there had been no successful attack on the kingdom of Daventry for over five hundred years.

"Ask again, little man. I will give you your weight in gold, but please do not ask for the Shield," said the King.

"You do not appear to value your wife's life, Your Highness," said the dwarf. "I will take no other reward than that which I have requested." Haughtily he turned to go.

"Come back," Edward called. "I'll give you the Shield." The dwarf took the Shield, and secreted it away in a hole in the ground, in the way of dwarves.

The Queen partook of the root, but to no avail. She worsened and died. Daventry's church bells tolled in mourning, and the King vowed vengeance against the false dwarf. Years passed, and the news of the loss of the Shield spread. Armies attacked the weakened Daventry, and the King went out to lead his armies without the Shield. Never before did they have need of the Mirror to foretell enemy moves. Now, that too was gone.

Many years passed, and the King was very lonely. One day, while out riding with his courtiers, Edward came upon a pack of wolves tearing at the lower limbs of a big tree. When the group approached, the wolves scattered to reveal a beautiful young woman perched in the tree. She descended regally.

"I thank you for the rescue, kind sirs. I am the Princess Dahlia, of Cumberland. I was traveling through this land when that pack of wolves fell upon my group. My bodyguard fled in terror from their fangs, leaving me quite alone. I owe you my life, and my heartfelt gratitude."

The King was charmed with the Princess Dahlia, and brought her back to his castle to visit. He felt new life coursing through his veins, and knew it was because he had met someone who might fill the loneliness left by his late Queen.

In due time Edward asked Dahlia to marry him, and she accepted. The people of Daventry were wildly excited at the prospect of a new Queen (and hopeful again of an heir), and made preparations for a glorious wedding celebration.

On the night before the wedding, when the air was thick with toasts and merriment, Princess Dahlia bid Edward good night. He never noticed her hand stealing up to his belt and extracting the ring of keys hanging there. Much later, the Royal treasurer approached the King with alarming news.

He had discovered the treasury door standing open, with the King's own key in the lock. The Princess Dahlia had been inside, holding a small Chest of gold.

The treasurer stood frozen to the spot. The Princess' bright laughter changed to a witch's cackle as her form grew old and withered. She grasped the Chest and mounted her broom to fly out the open window. The treasurer watched in dismay as she swooped up through the clouds and disappeared.

When the King heard the news, he wept in despair. That Chest was magic, and the last great treasure remaining in Daventry. No matter how much was taken from it, the Chest always remained brimful of golden coins. Without the Chest he could buy no more food, pay no more soldiers.

Many more years passed, and Daventry grew poor and weak. King Edward was old and feeble, and saw that his end was near. Fearing that the country would fall into even greater disorder when he died, he sent for his favorite knight, Sir Graham.

"You are the bravest and truest knight in my kingdom, Sir Graham. Long ago I envisioned your form in my magic Mirror, and thought I was seeing my son and heir. The years have proven me at least half wrong. But the prophecy may yet be fulfilled.

"To prove yourself worthy of my crown, I command you to journey out into the world and retrieve the three great treasures taken from Daventry by treachery and stealth. Succeed in this great quest, and you shall become King upon my death. Fail, and our beautiful Daventry will grow ever weaker until it is invaded and conquered by unfriendly nations. This I promise by all that is honorable and right.

"May you return victorious, Sir Graham
!"
 

Blackthorne

Infamous Quests
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Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Yeah, just what a King's Quest game needs - moralizing about death (life) and a fever dream with badly interpreted graphics of prior games in the series. This last "episode" of this game literally celebrated itself, as if it was already a cherished member of the the pantheon of King's Quest games. That's bold. I don't think most people will remember this train wreck.


Bt
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
920
Yeah, just what a King's Quest game needs - moralizing about death (life) and a fever dream with badly interpreted graphics of prior games in the series. This last "episode" of this game literally celebrated itself, as if it was already a cherished member of the the pantheon of King's Quest games. That's bold. I don't think most people will remember this train wreck.


Bt

"I sobbed harder than I have ever sobbed in a video game ... or movie, or book... in my life. I am in a strange emotional state right now. It was a work of art on every level. It puts the original series of games to shame for me, even 6. I'm sorry to all the nostalgic fans. I have nostalgia sometimes too, but pure genius is pure genius.

God the wad of tear-filled toilet paper i had made me get the plunger out.."
 

Jackalope

Arcane
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inside a giant mech suit
Let's have Graham as a grumpy senile old man retelling all his adventures to his grandchildren! And let's make sure he's retelling everything wrong! And let's not have any good puzzles! And make it episodic so it takes two years.

BTW, Christopher Lloyd is way too old to be doing all this voicework. I love the guy, but he can hardly even say his lines at this point and it's breaking my heart.
 

Blackthorne

Infamous Quests
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Codex 2014 Divinity: Original Sin 2
"I sobbed harder than I have ever sobbed in a video game ... or movie, or book... in my life. I am in a strange emotional state right now. It was a work of art on every level. It puts the original series of games to shame for me, even 6. I'm sorry to all the nostalgic fans. I have nostalgia sometimes too, but pure genius is pure genius.

God the wad of tear-filled toilet paper i had made me get the plunger out.."

Yeah, I saw that dude's quote on facebook. He was a regular at the TSL forums for years, and he's always been a bit.... hyperbolic, to say the least.


Bt
 
Joined
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Messages
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Let's have Graham as a grumpy senile old man retelling all his adventures to his grandchildren! And let's make sure he's retelling everything wrong! And let's not have any good puzzles! And make it episodic so it takes two years.

BTW, Christopher Lloyd is way too old to be doing all this voicework. I love the guy, but he can hardly even say his lines at this point and it's breaking my heart.

Honestly I had no problem understanding him...He was the best aspect of the whole thing.
 
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Also, they totally ignored a major plot point they themselves created:

In Chapter I, you have a choice as to whether to free the dragon, shoot it in the eye, or distract it. It is said either choice would effect the rest of the game.
The dragon is seen in a flash-forward into the future, showing the dragon burning Daventry and choosing elderly Graham. It is mentioned in Chapter III. It is not seen, or mentioned, at all in Chapter V. Basically the whole moral choice upon which the game depended was utterly ignored and forgotten about.
 
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
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920
Also, when you're wandering around Daventry as Old Graham, they use the same whimsical and peaceful musical cues for the forests and paths that they used in the first episode. Even though you're supposed to be on an urgent mission to stop Manny from terrorizing your family and Kingdom. There's no sense of urgency or pathos considering the dark content.
 
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Jul 4, 2015
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It's like they just took the model of Daventry from Chapter I and threw an old Graham model in it. Every special effect seems really poorly rendered compared to past chapters, as well.
 
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It's sad. They failed so hard with this, and fucked up so badly, that I don't think Activision will touch the series - or any of the classic Sierra IPs - probably for the rest of our lifetimes.
 
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Oh, and by the way? Mordack apparently survived your fight with him in KQ5. You know, where he turned into fire and you put him out with rain water? In this chapter, he says he survived by "hiding under the floorboards." Another classic KQ game undercut. The Three Headed Daventry which terrorized Daventry, and Alexander's rescuing of his sister from the Dragon? Retconned out of existence. Rosella bravely defying danger after danger to save her father in KQ4? Gone.

They couldn't even get Graham to pronounce Cassima's name right, or Samhain's. Cassima is now Cassema, and Samhain is now Somhone.
 

Jackalope

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There's still the bonus chapter... Some season pass bullshit. Probably going to be bad.

Chapters really feel rushed and padded to increase time:

Chapter 1 hides a lot of characters in knight and guard armor. That way animators have less work to do. There's also a lot of needless walking. Every time you cross a bridge you need a horn.

In Chapter 2 you were stuck in a bunch of tunnels walking back and forth forever and doing the same thing day after day. The goblins all wore the same armor, so no one would have to animate their faces.

Chapter 4 was all about some variations on a sliding puzzle. And it really got old.

Chapter 5 recycles characters and locations from previous chapters, and at the end has this grand battle, which is basically a few brain teasers from a crossword book. Amaya's partner we see in this chapter is probably some unused model they had laying around. And those white backgrounds are a clever way to have animators do less stuff.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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5,119
Just as I'm downloading the game, now that it's completed, I discover they still have the epilogue planned for the end of the year? Fucking hell.

Postponed, again.
 

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