New Vegas review from NMA, too good to be true???

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Derper summed things up nicely on the last page. Click back one, bottom of page.

Does it mean that you agree with the following (which is a conclusion of made's points):

"The sad part is, there might be actually a decent game hidden underneath that pile of crap. Writing seemed decent from the little I saw of it, voice acting was spot on, and supposedly quests and world design are awesome. But I couldn't sit through even Arcanum or PST in this engine. It's unplayable."

If yes, please explain. If no, let go off my leg already.

As for Chris: Yes, I believe it has stopped you from opening up like you usually would on game faults. You can deny it until the cows come home, but too many times now I have noticed the differences in your posting tone when dealing with flops from different developers.

I only criticize blatant pre-release lies (see the quotes in my Oblivion review), not the pre-release enthusiasm, although, like I said, I don't recall Chris being guilty of that particular crime.

I noticed that he did make an effort not to mislead people about AP features, which is a plus in my book:

"It's not my intention to misrepresent the passive path - it will require the use of certain gadgets and weapons designed not to kill opponents. "

And I am not playing your linking game; you had almost exactly the same argument with Skyway roughly a month ago, perhaps earlier, perhaps later, where he provided all the links, and you ignored them. I am not falling for the same trap...

For what trap? Posting links is too much work now? You claim that MCA misrepresented his games. I assume you had some quotes in mind, so it shouldn't be hard for you to find them.

1.: Yes, there may be a decent game (for those that can enjoy this engine of course..) under the rubbish. I have already said in earlier posts that, if anyone enjoys this kind of thing, good for them. If you cannot admit a flaw however, what would you call that?

2.: What is the difference between pre release lies and pre release enthusiasm? Do you know what a game will be like before it is released? Do you have the Paladin ability to detect lies? Please explain more on how you can suddenly tell the difference, because to me it is all the same: If you look back on something a developer/shill said, then compare it with the game and what they say afterwards, that is where the truth lies, non?

3.: Your trap is where you ask people for links, then either a) ignore the link, or b) say what you said above and totally confuse the issue with your Zen statements on 'pre release lies vs entusiasm'. By the very fact you mentioned that above, it shows me quite well that you remember the links in question. Thanks for that.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You're already playing another game after suffering through all of Arcania? I figured you'd need a break from gaming in general after hearing your impressions of that abortion.

I hoped that after playing Arcania, everything would look like 10/10 material.

It wasn't the case, unfortunately It might have even left me more disenchanted and grumpy about just about everything.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Can we all just agree that cock is delicious and move on? FFS.

Totally, I especially like the taste of my own cock.

Why exactly do you transex people assume we want to know what you do with your severed cock?

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Where does it say story? I thought that most people liked Fallout for the setting, dialogues, and the quest design. No?

No. I cannot play a Fallout in the Oblibion engine, any other engine that is a travesty. Sorry. It needs more than setting, dialogues and quest design to me.

 

[chzr]

sup guize

so are there any other impressions aside from the tutorial dog?

 

[zeitgeist]

Topic just shows how useless the codex is.

This topic is about NV, i just want to know if it is worth it to play it or not.

That only depends on whether you enjoyed Fallout 3 "for what it was". If so, wait until all relevant mods have been updated, and play it as a paperdolling survival sandbox with horrible story/dialogue/quests/animations/everything else.

If you didn't like it at all, there's nothing to see here. No element has been improved enough that you could say it truly matters now. It's still best played with brain turned off.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Instead, here on the Codex of all places, there is a whining buzz of morons laughing and saying "haha! as if you would care about such a small thing ahahahaha!'. Yes, the incident in question is small; the fact that people are defending it is retarded. There is NO WAY that you fellows would be defending this if Bethesda had been the main contributor to this game (well, they are in a sense..). No way. Plenty of times there were smaller things nitpicked from Oblibion and Fallout 3. Suddenly, all these 'little things' should be forgiven.

Noone is defending it like its a good thing. They are saying that a minor NPC during a tutorial not reacting to another NPC getting killed is pretty insignificant. Its nothing near the complete facepalm moments where Fallout 3 or Oblivion would nearly cause you brain damage. Its actually not too bad. You shoot a dog and the girl probably is just scared shitless and isn't going to attack you. You lose reputation with the town, and presumably if you lose enough they will go hostile or you will at least not be welcome there. A bunch of people are just bitching about the fact that there isn't a custom dialog reaction setup specifically for the occasion or that they don't think you lost enough reputation with the town for what you did. Big fucking deal.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Enough with your mindgames. Ur dum an i haet u

"In before Skyways Butt buddies come in to defend him"

Yeah, defend him, not his points or position that they happen to agree with. That picture was posted a few times already, and there's always one or two "baaaaaw dont u talk about skyway" guys.

Who defends him? If he suddenly starting posting like Cleave, only a select bunch of morons would defend him. If he says something I agree with, I chime in and agree. If he says things I think are stupid, I say so. Check the posting history if you like, I have had arguments with Skyway before and called him out on his next gen tendencies at times.

This all goes back to what I said earlier. Kids take it personally if you dare to disgree with them and start an ongoing vendetta. This usually reaches out to encompass other threads too, no matter that they are totally unrelated to what you disagreed with in an earlier argument.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

sup guize

so are there any other impressions aside from the tutorial dog?

Have you actually tried reading the threads that have "Impressions" and "New Vegas" in the title? Because I can let you in on a little secret; This one doesn't.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Instead, here on the Codex of all places, there is a whining buzz of morons laughing and saying "haha! as if you would care about such a small thing ahahahaha!'. Yes, the incident in question is small; the fact that people are defending it is retarded. There is NO WAY that you fellows would be defending this if Bethesda had been the main contributor to this game (well, they are in a sense..). No way. Plenty of times there were smaller things nitpicked from Oblibion and Fallout 3. Suddenly, all these 'little things' should be forgiven.

Noone is defending it like its a good thing. They are saying that a minor NPC during a tutorial not reacting to another NPC getting killed is pretty insignificant. Its nothing near the complete facepalm moments where Fallout 3 or Oblivion would nearly cause you brain damage. Its actually not too bad. You shoot a dog and the girl probably is just scared shitless and isn't going to attack you. You lose reputation with the town, and presumably if you lose enough they will go hostile or you will at least not be welcome there. A bunch of people are just bitching about the fact that there isn't a custom dialog reaction setup specifically for the occasion or that they don't think you lost enough reputation with the town for what you did. Big fucking deal.

They have said that having people/animals/objects react in a certain way is impossible in a game. I and others disagreed and gave examples. Said people continued their rant and here we are. This is the core of it. I couldn't give two hoots about the tutorial dog, nor even the 'based on Oblibion engine' game, but it makes me see Fanboyism when someone comes out with total BS and says "that isn't possible!!" when I know that it is, and has been for a long, long time.

Hopefully, after posting this simple message for the 50th time, you and other morons can allow it to sink in. Slowly if necessary.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Where does it say story? I thought that most people liked Fallout for the setting, dialogues, and the quest design. No?

No. I cannot play a Fallout in the Oblibion engine, any other engine that is a travesty. Sorry. It needs more than setting, dialogues and quest design to me.

Like?

If you cannot admit a flaw however, what would you call that?

The game has flaws. The next 5 RPGs would have flaws too. Yes, the dog thing is a flaw IF it's a confirmed "feature" and the gameworld doesn't react to you attacking NPCs (in which case I'd definitely mention it in the review). If it's a tutorial thing, it's hardly worth talking about.

What is the difference between pre release lies and pre release enthusiasm?

Enthusiasm - "we think it's a great game" (when it's not)
Lies - "the game has this awesome feature X" (when it doesn't).

Do you know what a game will be like before it is released? Do you have the Paladin ability to detect lies?

If you follow a game closely and there is enough info, anyone with a brain can get a good picture and know what's bullshit and what isn't.

Please explain more on how you can suddenly tell the difference...

You play the game and see if all the promises are there. Duh.

If you look back on something a developer/shill said, then compare it with the game and what they say afterwards, that is where the truth lies, non?

Sure. Post the quotes already.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Instead, here on the Codex of all places, there is a whining buzz of morons laughing and saying "haha! as if you would care about such a small thing ahahahaha!'. Yes, the incident in question is small; the fact that people are defending it is retarded. There is NO WAY that you fellows would be defending this if Bethesda had been the main contributor to this game (well, they are in a sense..). No way. Plenty of times there were smaller things nitpicked from Oblibion and Fallout 3. Suddenly, all these 'little things' should be forgiven.

Noone is defending it like its a good thing. They are saying that a minor NPC during a tutorial not reacting to another NPC getting killed is pretty insignificant. Its nothing near the complete facepalm moments where Fallout 3 or Oblivion would nearly cause you brain damage. Its actually not too bad. You shoot a dog and the girl probably is just scared shitless and isn't going to attack you. You lose reputation with the town, and presumably if you lose enough they will go hostile or you will at least not be welcome there. A bunch of people are just bitching about the fact that there isn't a custom dialog reaction setup specifically for the occasion or that they don't think you lost enough reputation with the town for what you did. Big fucking deal.

They have said that having people/animals/objects react in a certain way is impossible in a game. I and others disagreed and gave examples. Said people continued their rant and here we are.

So, why did you drag me into it? Have I said anything about the fucking dog or the arguments before you went all "et tu" on me?

 

[Derper]

Where does it say story? I thought that most people liked Fallout for the setting, dialogues, and the quest design. No?

No. I cannot play a Fallout in the Oblibion engine, any other engine that is a travesty. Sorry. It needs more than setting, dialogues and quest design to me.

Like?

Even though you're quoting Blackadder, I'd just like to add my two cents: Graphics have a large impact on the atmosphere off a game, and wonky glitches and shitty mechanics detracts from the atmosphere and immersion. I know some people who would cringe at the word immersion, but IMHO it's an important part. The graphics add to the atmosphere which adds to the experience, just like a great setting, great dialogue and quest design does.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Where does it say story? I thought that most people liked Fallout for the setting, dialogues, and the quest design. No?

No. I cannot play a Fallout in the Oblibion engine, any other engine that is a travesty. Sorry. It needs more than setting, dialogues and quest design to me.

Like?

If you cannot admit a flaw however, what would you call that?

The game has flaws. The next 5 RPGs would have flaws too. Yes, the dog thing is a flaw IF it's a confirmed "feature" and the gameworld doesn't react to you attacking NPCs (in which case I'd definitely mention it in the review). If it's a tutorial thing, it's hardly worth talking about.

What is the difference between pre release lies and pre release enthusiasm?

Enthusiasm - "we think it's a great game" (when it's not)
Lies - "the game has this awesome feature X" (when it doesn't).

Do you know what a game will be like before it is released? Do you have the Paladin ability to detect lies?

If you follow a game closely and there is enough info, anyone with a brain can get a good picture and know what's bullshit and what isn't.

Please explain more on how you can suddenly tell the difference...

You play the game and see if all the promises are there. Duh.

If you look back on something a developer/shill said, then compare it with the game and what they say afterwards, that is where the truth lies, non?

Sure. Post the quotes already.

1: A decent engine, like Fallout's, or an updated Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm like engine.

2: Fair enough. More to come answering your second post.

3: Ok, fair enough. General lie vs Specific lie. They are both lies to me though, especially when they turn around later and admit that they knew there were problems.

4:Agreed, which is why I know this game won't be for me, and always knew. It has the Oblibion engine, it (according to many users) has the Obsidian bugs, and nothing really new apart from some writing. Not good enough, and I knew this before. Doesn't stop every other hero in here saying "give the game a fair go!". Why should we? Based on what past achievements? You yourself even spouted this a few posts ago.

5: "The tutorial could be broken though! Play the proper game or shut up!" Oh, sorry, I don't think you actually said that, just the moron legion. My original question related to the game before it was released. Good old VD traps and marketing tricks in action.

6: Keep trying. You brought up the 'enthusiasm vs outright lies', so you know what I am talking about.

Stuff it: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0

 

[Silellak]

Just for fun, and because I all you guys so much, I fired up a saved game post-tutorial, walked into the starting tavern, and attacked the dog.

The result? The dog went hostile after a couple of shots. Another NPC in the tavern, not part of the town's faction, helped me kill it. The town faction NPCs did nothing to help or hinder it.

After attacking a town faction NPC in the same tavern, the other town faction NPC turned hostile to me the same instant the attacked NPC did. The non-faction NPC did not intervene, though he did seem annoyed by the nearby violence.

So, it's probably just a faction flag thing. Either the dog isn't flagged the same faction as the town (just flagged friendly to it), or "creatures" in a faction don't trigger the same reaction as "people". I think the second scenario is more likely, but either one is plausible.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Instead, here on the Codex of all places, there is a whining buzz of morons laughing and saying "haha! as if you would care about such a small thing ahahahaha!'. Yes, the incident in question is small; the fact that people are defending it is retarded. There is NO WAY that you fellows would be defending this if Bethesda had been the main contributor to this game (well, they are in a sense..). No way. Plenty of times there were smaller things nitpicked from Oblibion and Fallout 3. Suddenly, all these 'little things' should be forgiven.

Noone is defending it like its a good thing. They are saying that a minor NPC during a tutorial not reacting to another NPC getting killed is pretty insignificant. Its nothing near the complete facepalm moments where Fallout 3 or Oblivion would nearly cause you brain damage. Its actually not too bad. You shoot a dog and the girl probably is just scared shitless and isn't going to attack you. You lose reputation with the town, and presumably if you lose enough they will go hostile or you will at least not be welcome there. A bunch of people are just bitching about the fact that there isn't a custom dialog reaction setup specifically for the occasion or that they don't think you lost enough reputation with the town for what you did. Big fucking deal.

They have said that having people/animals/objects react in a certain way is impossible in a game. I and others disagreed and gave examples. Said people continued their rant and here we are.

So, why did you drag me into it? Have I said anything about the fucking dog or the arguments before you went all "et tu" on me?

I didn't mean to drag you into that argument per se. I brought up the fact that you rattled off a sarcastic one liner, about the weakest elements in the post, when there were other juicy elements that would normally have you at your sarcastic finest...and not in defence of the game either.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Even though you're quoting Blackadder, I'd just like to add my two cents: Graphics have a large impact on the atmosphere off a game, and wonky glitches and shitty mechanics detracts from the atmosphere and immersion. I know some people who would cringe at the word immersion, but IMHO it's an important part. The graphics add to the atmosphere which adds to the experience, just like a great setting, great dialogue and quest design does.

I was slowly replaying Gothic 2 recently. The graphics are shitty, the models are blocky, and the glitches are numerous. Yet it's a very enjoyable game with a great atmosphere. See my point?

Good graphics add quite a lot, but it's not a mandatory element. At least for me.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Where does it say story? I thought that most people liked Fallout for the setting, dialogues, and the quest design. No?

No. I cannot play a Fallout in the Oblibion engine, any other engine that is a travesty. Sorry. It needs more than setting, dialogues and quest design to me.

Like?

Even though you're quoting Blackadder, I'd just like to add my two cents: Graphics have a large impact on the atmosphere off a game, and wonky glitches and shitty mechanics detracts from the atmosphere and immersion. I know some people who would cringe at the word immersion, but IMHO it's an important part. The graphics add to the atmosphere which adds to the experience, just like a great setting, great dialogue and quest design does.

Needless to say, I disagree. The mechanics of the game, the system used, is much more important. If the graphics are wonderful, well and good, but if they take effort away from the underlying mechanics and what is under the hood of the game, then that is a minus to me and unnecessary icing on a poorly baked cake.

CRPG's need to revert to the way they used to be: Engine and mechanics number 1, other areas following with graphics being the end game. The natural law always had CRPG's using last generation graphics or earlier, and this was an industry accepted standard, provided these resources were used to other effect including depth to the engine itself and the gameplay.

 

[Derper]

Even though you're quoting Blackadder, I'd just like to add my two cents: Graphics have a large impact on the atmosphere off a game, and wonky glitches and shitty mechanics detracts from the atmosphere and immersion. I know some people who would cringe at the word immersion, but IMHO it's an important part. The graphics add to the atmosphere which adds to the experience, just like a great setting, great dialogue and quest design does.

I was slowly replaying Gothic 2 recently. The graphics are shitty, the models are blocky, and the glitches are numerous. Yet it's a very enjoyable game with a great atmosphere. See my point?

Good graphics add quite a lot, but it's not a mandatory element. At least for me.

Agreed. BaK is one of my favourite RPGs, and it had some quite blocky traps, horrible wigs and more. Not being a mandatory element isn't the same as it not mattering. ITS changed the graphics engine or textures on AoD, right? And wouldn't you feel the immersion was broken if you encountered floating brahmin?
You decided that Graphics, animations, and your character's face are very important in RPGs, especially those where you see your character's face only when you rotate your character. Got it. was all that was to made's post, when there was in fact valid criticism, hence whiteknighting and fanboyism...

 

[Vault Dweller]

I didn't mean to drag you into that argument per se. I brought up the fact that you rattled off a sarcastic one liner, about the weakest elements in the post, when there were other juicy elements that would normally have you at your sarcastic finest...and not in defence of the game either.

It was 90% of the fucking post with a conclusion that even though the game is probably good he can't play it and not because of the fucking dog but because of the graphics.

A decent engine, like Fallout's, or an updated Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm like engine.

Do you play only isometric games and can't enjoy a first person RPG?

3: Ok, fair enough. General lie vs Specific lie. They are both lies to me though, especially when they turn around later and admit that they knew there were problems.

Not general vs specific. The first example was an opinion, the second a blatant lie.

4:Agreed, which is why I know this game won't be for me, and always knew. It has the Oblibion engine, it (according to many users) has the Obsidian bugs, and nothing really new apart from some writing. Not good enough, and I knew this before. Doesn't stop every other hero in here saying "give the game a fair go!". Why should we? Based on what past achievements? You yourself even spouted this a few posts ago.

I'm not inviting anyone to try the game. I'm playing it now and will write a review in 2-3 weeks. One of the reasons I'm playing it is because Obsidian had spent a lot of time on the design (talking about Van Buren here), so I hope that the overall quality (minus the engine and the hardcoded Fallout 3 stuff) is high.

5: "The tutorial could be broken though! Play the proper game or shut up!" Oh, sorry, I don't think you actually said that, just the moron legion. My original question related to the game before it was released. Good old VD traps and marketing tricks in action.

Related to NV? I barely followed it, so I honestly have no idea what's been said/promised about the game. If you think that Obsidian mislead people, please post the links with quotes.

6: Keep trying. You brought up the 'enthusiasm vs outright lies', so you know what I am talking about.

Jesus. One last time, I have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Would you please stop role-playing a young maiden and tell me what you know?

 

[Vault Dweller]

ITS changed the graphics engine or textures on AoD, right?

Because the reaction to the graphics was very negative. The game in its original state wouldn't have sold more than a few hundred copies. If that.

And wouldn't you feel the immersion was broken if you encountered floating brahmin?

Yes.

You decided that Graphics, animations, and your character's face are very important in RPGs, especially those where you see your character's face only when you rotate your character. Got it. was all that was to made's post, when there was in fact valid criticism, hence whiteknighting and fanboyism...

Once again: 90% of made's post (and his conclusion that the game is unplayable) was about the graphics.

 

[chzr]

ui =/= graphics






just sayin'

 

[Derper]

Where does it say story? I thought that most people liked Fallout for the setting, dialogues, and the quest design. No?

No. I cannot play a Fallout in the Oblibion engine, any other engine that is a travesty. Sorry. It needs more than setting, dialogues and quest design to me.

Like?

Even though you're quoting Blackadder, I'd just like to add my two cents: Graphics have a large impact on the atmosphere off a game, and wonky glitches and shitty mechanics detracts from the atmosphere and immersion. I know some people who would cringe at the word immersion, but IMHO it's an important part. The graphics add to the atmosphere which adds to the experience, just like a great setting, great dialogue and quest design does.

Needless to say, I disagree. The mechanics of the game, the system used, is much more important. If the graphics are wonderful, well and good, but if they take effort away from the underlying mechanics and what is under the hood of the game, then that is a minus to me and unnecessary icing on a poorly baked cake.

CRPG's need to revert to the way they used to be: Engine and mechanics number 1, other areas following with graphics being the end game. The natural law always had CRPG's using last generation graphics or earlier, and this was an industry accepted standard, provided these resources were used to other effect including depth to the engine itself and the gameplay.

I didn't say mechanics weren't important, and I happen to agree that they should be priority number one. The problem is that VD seemed to argue graphics didn't matter at all, which I disagreed with. FFS. If New Vegas had used mechanics and graphics from F2 with a new world to explore and wellwritten quests, you'd see happy campers all over codexistan, DAC and NMA.
The mechanics of NV have been dumbed down, the graphics seem barely tolerable and glitchy (and have completely retarded ragdollism). The story is probably better and more wellwritten than in F3, but that can't save this shit from sinking.

 

[Vault Dweller]

He complains that the inventory is text-based and there are no icons. That's graphics.

Just sayin'

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

I didn't mean to drag you into that argument per se. I brought up the fact that you rattled off a sarcastic one liner, about the weakest elements in the post, when there were other juicy elements that would normally have you at your sarcastic finest...and not in defence of the game either.

It was 90% of the fucking post with a conclusion that even though the game is probably good he can't play it and not because of the fucking dog but because of the graphics.

A decent engine, like Fallout's, or an updated Jagged Alliance or Silent Storm like engine.

Do you play only isometric games and can't enjoy a first person RPG?

3: Ok, fair enough. General lie vs Specific lie. They are both lies to me though, especially when they turn around later and admit that they knew there were problems.

Not general vs specific. The first example was an opinion, the second a blatant lie.

4:Agreed, which is why I know this game won't be for me, and always knew. It has the Oblibion engine, it (according to many users) has the Obsidian bugs, and nothing really new apart from some writing. Not good enough, and I knew this before. Doesn't stop every other hero in here saying "give the game a fair go!". Why should we? Based on what past achievements? You yourself even spouted this a few posts ago.

I'm not inviting anyone to try the game. I'm playing it now and will write a review in 2-3 weeks. One of the reasons I'm playing it is because Obsidian had spent a lot of time on the design (talking about Van Buren here), so I hope that the overall quality (minus the engine and the hardcoded Fallout 3 stuff) is high.

5: "The tutorial could be broken though! Play the proper game or shut up!" Oh, sorry, I don't think you actually said that, just the moron legion. My original question related to the game before it was released. Good old VD traps and marketing tricks in action.

Related to NV? I barely followed it, so I honestly have no idea what's been said/promised about the game. If you think that Obsidian mislead people, please post the links with quotes.

6: Keep trying. You brought up the 'enthusiasm vs outright lies', so you know what I am talking about.

Jesus. One last time, I have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Would you please stop role-playing a young maiden and tell me what you know?

1: No, it wasn't 90% of the post. Knock it off.

2: No, I can enjoy decent first person CRPG's. They stretch back to the 80's and right up to, so far, Risen. I just cannot stand the Bethesda variety and dislike the way they handle gameplay, challenge, mechanics and combat systems.

3: It isn't an opinion if you know better....read link I gave. I will post it again for your reading pleasure at the end of this post.

4: Fair enough.

5:Link provided. Will provide again.

6: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0