Squeenix NieR: Automata from Yoko Taro and Platinum Games

[Hobo Elf]

Maybe they'll make the Nier farmville clone sequel that they originally planned on.

 

[Dayyālu]

Weren't the Nier extra materials chock-full of grimderp ideas for other games? Particularly the "mankind slowly loses battle against salt monsters"?

Maybe it would be the chance to resurrect Cavia's hatred for children.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

I wanted to check out Nier1 on PS3 while they patch Automata and the price drops. Of course there's no digital version and I'm not paying 40-50 bucks for a scratched dvd from ebay D:


Then again:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...s-have-yet-to-conquer-the-world/#66c7e7d834ec

“The Drakengard and Nier series are within the same world but this game takes place more than 10,000 years apart from the others. Please do not worry about having to play them all, as you can enjoy this without having any knowledge of the others. Actually, I think you’ll become more confused if you know all of those games.

 

[Anthedon]

Some intrepid modder produced a fix for the fullscreen resolution bug.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/524220/discussions/0/135512104777399045/?ctp=18

 

[ghostdog]

I wanted to check out Nier1 on PS3 while they patch Automata and the price drops. Of course there's no digital version and I'm not paying 40-50 bucks for a scratched dvd from ebay D:


Then again:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...s-have-yet-to-conquer-the-world/#66c7e7d834ec

“The Drakengard and Nier series are within the same world but this game takes place more than 10,000 years apart from the others. Please do not worry about having to play them all, as you can enjoy this without having any knowledge of the others. Actually, I think you’ll become more confused if you know all of those games.

Maybe you can find it used. I think I bought it used for 12 euros. Money well spent, Nier was unexpectedly good and it's on my top 3 of PS3 exclusives along with Dark Souls and RDRedemption.

 

[Hobo Elf]

When I bought Nier, it was super cheap. I'm somewhat surprised that its price has gone up so much. Even the Drakengard games are still pretty cheap.

 

[Saark]

“The Drakengard and Nier series are within the same world but this game takes place more than 10,000 years apart from the others. Please do not worry about having to play them all, as you can enjoy this without having any knowledge of the others. Actually, I think you’ll become more confused if you know all of those games.

Something I hear and read a lot, probably because Square forced Yoko Taro to perpetuate this lie so more people would buy Automata. Considering how many references to Drakengard 1/3/Nier there are in the game, I gotta say that this is utter bullshit. I understand it though, most people who are gonna play Automata will not have played Nier, and thats a blessing in disguise since those people will be surprised by some twists that people familiar with the setting should've seen coming.

I've seen plenty of people being confused by certain story elements in the game though because they didn't play the original. For example there's 11 Reports on Project Gestalt and a few other references to it that you simply will not understand unless you know about what happened prior to and during the first Nier. Sure, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but at certain points you get to read lore-fragments that you will just glance over because it doesn't make sense/matter to you. You will read about Gestalts and Replicants, have no clue what either of those are and just continue playing Automata. You're gonna read a report on some human girl named Yonah and you're not gonna care. You're gonna see a symbol manifest on one of the bosses and you're not gonna notice. You will read a novella about twin-androids and their hardships, it will end with "We cant stop. Nothing ever stops." and you're not gonna tumble to the floor weeping in despair.

You're still gonna enjoy Automata for what it has to offer, but there's just too many weapon descriptions, archives, lore-fragments, characters or references to keep pretending that knowledge of the franchise/first game wouldn't let you enjoy the game much more. I'm not at all surprised however that only very few reviews of the game actually mention this.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

I wanted to check out Nier1 on PS3 while they patch Automata and the price drops. Of course there's no digital version and I'm not paying 40-50 bucks for a scratched dvd from ebay D:


Then again:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...s-have-yet-to-conquer-the-world/#66c7e7d834ec

“The Drakengard and Nier series are within the same world but this game takes place more than 10,000 years apart from the others. Please do not worry about having to play them all, as you can enjoy this without having any knowledge of the others. Actually, I think you’ll become more confused if you know all of those games.

Maybe you can find it used. I think I bought it used for 12 euros. Money well spent, Nier was unexpectedly good and it's on my top 3 of PS3 exclusives along with Dark Souls and RDRedemption.

Cheapest option I have found is 20 EUR for new 360 disc but I don't have a 360. Used PS3 discs are 40-50 bucks with shipping for me.

I didn't get a cracked PS3 and this is what I get

 

[ghostdog]

Yeah, I guess it depends on where you are. Don't you have any stores that deal with console games near you? My policy with all the PS3 games I bought (I got a PS3 a bit before PS4 was released) was to get physical used copies from stores that either buy used games from people, or rent games and when the console is dying, they sell them. All these games cost me 10-15 euros, plus the gas I used to get to the store.

Also if I'm not mistaken, apart from an early model, with a firmware hack, I don't think it's possible to crack a PS3.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

The fuck is with all the disagreements my earlier post got? The characters in this game are objectively not as good as the protagonist and followers of the original game you stupid cocksuckers. These new ass holes barely even talk. They aint got no person-fucking-ality.

 

[Malpercio]

Come on guys use spoilers for this game

 

[Saark]

The fuck is with all the disagreements my earlier post got? The characters in this game are objectively not as good as the protagonist and followers of the original game you stupid cocksuckers. These new ass holes barely even talk. They aint got no person-fucking-ality.

Do you also complain about RPGWatch having shittier discussions about RPGs? Of course the androids are having less of a personality compared to actual human beings. There's no argument to be had here.

The whole point of the game is discussing how machines aswell as androids are incapable of creating new cultural, political and social values, instead opting for suicide once their purpose for existence has been met. Why do you think all the bosses are named after philosophers that discussed existentialism for the majority of their life?

 

[Hobo Elf]

The fuck is with all the disagreements my earlier post got? The characters in this game are objectively not as good as the protagonist and followers of the original game you stupid cocksuckers. These new ass holes barely even talk. They aint got no person-fucking-ality.

Do you also complain about RPGWatch having shittier discussions about RPGs? Of course the androids are having less of a personality compared to actual human beings. There's no argument to be had here.

The whole point of the game is discussing how machines aswell as androids are incapable of creating new cultural, political and social values, instead opting for suicide once their purpose for existence has been met. Why do you think all the bosses are named after philosophers that discussed existentialism for the majority of their life?

"it's shit on purpose".

And your explanation fails anyway because the original cast in Nier were not humans either but weren't such bland and boring characters.

 

[Saark]

I'm not saying I like the other direction that was taken here, I'm just pointing out that it's not the lack of writing/development or laziness, but a design decision.

And your explanation fails anyway because the original cast in Nier were not humans either but weren't such bland and boring characters.

Errr... what? Nier and Yonah both are human replicants, with Yonah being the Original. Kaine was half-human half-shade. Emil is a human that was experimented on together with his sister by the successor organization of Hamelin. Weiss was one of 12 Gestalts from the Hamelin Organizations child-crusaders infused with maso, bound to a book to eventually lead the merger of Replicants and Gestalts once the White Chlorination Syndrome was defeated. All of them are human.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'm not saying I like the other direction that was taken here, I'm just pointing out that it's not the lack of writing/development or laziness, but a design decision.



Errr... what? Nier and Yonah both are human replicants, with Yonah being the Original. Kaine was half-human half-shade. Emil is a human that was experimented on together with his sister by the successor organization of Hamelin. Weiss was one of 12 Gestalts from the Hamelin Organizations child-crusaders infused with maso, bound to a book to eventually lead the merger of Replicants and Gestalts once the White Chlorination Syndrome was defeated. All of them are human.

And the replicants are.. Robots. Shadowlord wad a human. Replicant Nier and Yonah were androids.

 

[Saark]

Their bodies were artificial, yes. Their origin was still human, as they were created from the data from the individuals Gestalt (their soul). The fact that they gained the ability for independant thought and emotion is what doomed the whole project in the first place. If they wouldn't have gone through this "evolution" they would've taken their assigned role until they won the war against the army of the WCS. Essentially they were supposed to be androids modeled after individuals, but evolved further. Something which androids and machines are incapable of. Hence the difference in depth of personality, critical thinking and emotions.

 

[sullynathan]

So this is actually a story fag game with good combat?

 

[Hobo Elf]

Their bodies were artificial, yes. Their origin was still human, as they were created from the data from the individuals Gestalt (their soul). The fact that they gained the ability for independant thought and emotion is what doomed the whole project in the first place. If they wouldn't have gone through this "evolution" they would've taken their assigned role until they won the war against the army of the WCS. Essentially they were supposed to be androids modeled after individuals, but evolved further. Something which androids and machines are incapable of. Hence the difference in depth of personality, critical thinking and emotions.

1) They were soulless artificial bodies. I don't think it was specified exactly what they meant by artificial, but in Automata it was said that after the humans died, the androids became lost, which lead to the creation of yorha to give them some purpose. We can infer from here that this means that the replicants were probably androids.

2) 9S experiences rapid heartbeat when he sees 2B , and 2B cries tears over 9S. So I don't know what you mean when you say that they don't have emotions in Automata. When you play as 9S in the B route he shows critical thinking throughout the whole time by secretly poking through classified intel trying to piece together what is truth, and making observations over the robots being more evolved now rather than being simple machines of war.

You're coming up with conclusions that contradicts the logic of the games' themselves and ignoring the reality that the characters in Automata are simply not interesting.

 

[Talby]

Glad I didn't get this, it seems like a flop.

 

[Saark]

1) They were soulless artificial bodies. I don't think it was specified exactly what they meant by artificial, but in Automata it was said that after the humans died, the androids became lost, which lead to the creation of yorha to give them some purpose. We can infer from here that this means that the replicants were probably androids.

2) 9S experiences rapid heartbeat when he sees 2B , and 2B cries tears over 9S. So I don't know what you mean when you say that they don't have emotions in Automata. When you play as 9S in the B route he shows critical thinking throughout the whole time by secretly poking through classified intel trying to piece together what is truth, and making observations over the robots being more evolved now rather than being simple machines of war.

You're coming up with conclusions that contradicts the logic of the games' themselves and ignoring the reality that the characters in Automata are simply not interesting.

Replicants were most likely androids, yes. They kept most of their individuality though, since each of them was modeled with data from their individual Gestalt. YoRHa androids, and I would imagine almost all the other androids aswell, are mass-produced though. There is no left-over personal human data, which is why I think they are in fact quite different compared to Replicants.

For the most part we're arguing the same point here. I totally agree, Automatas characters are less fleshed out and interesting than Niers. I think that this is intended design, since the origins of the protagonists of Nier and Automata are quite different and thus they couldn't be as emotionally engaging, you think they should be similar in depth since you believe there is no or very little difference between androids/replicants.
Nier was heavily reliant on the characters to drive forward the plot. Automata, for the most part, has a moving plot and the characters are swept away with it. The latter tries to engage on another level compared to Nier, not focusing on individuals. Instead it tries to discuss the whole predicament of existential angst und anxiety based on fulfilling your "designed" role, or taking away the sole reason why someone existed in the first place. Obviously this isn't gonna work the same for everyone. I would however like to mention that there is no reason to believe one is simply "better" or "worse" than the other from a game design standpoint. I also like to mention that the way the original Nier managed to capture you as a player by making you care about the characters more than any game I have ever played was nothing else than majestic(TM). Yoko Taro never makes the same game twice, and if he tried the same approach in Automata, he would've most likely failed on the premise of the game alone and we would all be hugely disappointed.

As to your second point:

Spoiler

obviously they aren't incapable of emotions. During multiple side-quests we can see quite clearly that 2B is somewhat suffering from the role that she was "destined" to do, or rather created to do by actually being an E model. There's a certain nihilism coming with her reactions to, for example, the 11B questline, executing the 3 'rogue' YoRHa or her reaction during 'Amnesia'. She still shows emotions when she's by herself, for example in the final scene of route A/B. She didn't expect 9S to come back via the machine network, he was supposed to just be backed up. By that time she would have regained her composure. As long as she is with others, she simply tries to hide whatever shes thinking/feeling because in her mind nothing really matters anyway. You might start contemplating whether she ultimately was right at the start of Route C.

9S himself is a different beast entirely, being a scanner model. It's said multiple times that S models are the most advanced models yet, and I feel that his capability to feel emotions is larger than the ones of regular androids. He's usually working alone so they wouldn't be able to get in the way as often anyway. It's not explicitly stated, but I think androids could be programmed to "feel" more, most androids just seem to be designed to only allow limited emotional range and depth. During the A2/Anomone novella it is said that it is because of their emotions that they surpassed their expected combat power. Seeing how many existential crises many different androids regularly go through, I can understand why they would limit that impact unless absolutely necessary. The premise of the game however requires the androids to commit more than ever, which is why models like 9S exist now - and we all see how that ended.

The real question is this: Are you not enjoying the game because it didn't live up to your expectations since it is a Nier sequel? Would you have enjoyed the game more if it wasn't called Nier:Automata, but only Automata, only to realize during the later parts of the game that it is in fact set in the same universe/timeline?

 

[Hobo Elf]

Spoilers about the final boss and the game's ending

Spoiler

lol the final boss is a bullet hell segment vs the credits of the game. Got stuck in the end stretch of it and kept dying until the game just threw me in the title screen. No desire to retry again, fuck this. The only way you could concievably beat this is if someone deletes their save data to give you a power boost, but since I don't pay for PSN, I'm not sure if this option is available to me or not (it was never offered to me). But if you do beat it then 9S, 2B and A2 are recreated and survive. A happy and hopeful ending? In a Yoko Taro game? You better believe it, bub.

The real question is this: Are you not enjoying the game because it didn't live up to your expectations since it is a Nier sequel? Would you have enjoyed the game more if it wasn't called Nier:Automata, but only Automata, only to realize during the later parts of the game that it is in fact set in the same universe/timeline?

Regardless of what the game is called, it still has quite boring gameplay. Whatever name they wish to slap on the box won't fix that. The only reason I did thunder on with the game is because it is Nier, or at least because it's a Yoko Taro game. But a highly disappointing one at that. There were no interesting plot twists or revelations, nor did any of the characters play with my emotional strings, or make me care about at all. The big "twist" everyone saw coming miles away and the one plot point that was somewhat interesting to me, the alien invastion, was completely swept under the rug once you discovered that they were already dead.

 

[Saark]

Spoilers about the final boss and the game's ending

Spoiler

lol the final boss is a bullet hell segment vs the credits of the game. Got stuck in the end stretch of it and kept dying until the game just threw me in the title screen. No desire to retry again, fuck this. The only way you could concievably beat this is if someone deletes their save data to give you a power boost, but since I don't pay for PSN, I'm not sure if this option is available to me or not (it was never offered to me). But if you do beat it then 9S, 2B and A2 are recreated and survive. A happy and hopeful ending? In a Yoko Taro game? You better believe it, bub.

Spoiler

You're supposed to geta help offer during that section of the gameplay, yes. It should not require connection to the network, not sure if something bugged out on you here. Once you do accept the offer, you're invincible and get to fire multiple bullets, the song changes to have a chorus in addition to the vocals, all giving a sense of unity to achieve your goal during the final ending.
Which is kinda hilarious in the first place, considering you're playing the pod during this section, killing off the entire development team just so you can eventually get this happy ending once you're done. I'm not sure if this was planned to be in the game from the beginning, it feels out of place in a Yoko Taro game. Then again you have to kill him to get it so it sort of makes sense as a 5th ending that is about as fourth wall breaking as it can get.

All in all I think with the scope of the game being much bigger this time around, the budget would've had to match the scope to make it as good a game as the first Nier. I still think it's a great one anyway, but it still could've been much more. Sadly the budget for this title was still tiny compared to the steaming pile of turd FFXV was or how much they invested into Scalebound only to ultimately cancel the entire project. Shame.

 

[Durandal]

I finally bought a wireless receiver for my wireless 360 controller so I could play this without having to deal with the c̃aͧͤ̊̈ͦ͆ͫ̃n͌ͩͬͮ͑̐̀͏͢c̶͂́eͫ̆̑͒̓̉̾ͣ́rͥ̍ͩͫͬ ̑̃ͥt̷̡͂̏̈ͥ̋ͬͣ̀͆h͌̒͐̑̚͠a͛͐̽͋̂̃ͬ͒ẗ̸̨́̓ͯ̒ͫ ̨͗͛̈̍͞҉iͦͬͥ̀͝s̡ͬͨ̉̽͐ͪ́ ̨ͧ̽ͮͣ̈͛̊͢͝dͪ͗͊ͨ̾̀͡ö̡͆̅̿͒̀̄̒̀uͭ̑b̓͘lͦ̕͟ë̴́ͮͤ͂ͩ-̷̢̄ͪͫ̚t̄̑̂͏a̍̆̽́̉͒҉p̔̉͌́͏̕ ̶ͥ̅͐͆̊i̎̈́̎̊̅͠n̡̈͆͆͋̽̄͜p̶͗͗̉̾̄͛̍̑u̔t̶̐̒̐̿ͨ̅s͛̆̌ͩͯ̓͂͂̂͏ ̷̃̎f͋̇ͦͥ͐̐͑̉͏҉͞oͬ̄̚͞͞r̢̎ͨ͋̋ͮͣ̂͆ ͑͛̉͛ͣ҉̷̧fͦ͒͋ͧ͠uͬ̆͆ͦͧ̋č̊̌ͥ̔̌̈́͂͏k̔͌̔͐̉̎̎̀͟i̵̎ͩ͂ͭ̄ͫ҉ň̨͗ͤͩ̉ͥ͒͌͗͜͝g͑ͧ̎̃̂ͨͣ̎͘ ̉̾ͭ̂͗̈́͘d̵̨̈́̇o̶̅̃͗͟d͌̃ͤͭg͐͠͏́ī̵ͫͣ̔̓̔ͭ́͠nͩ͞g̸ͯ͠, so now I have a much easier time of spamming my dodge button.

I'm only 12 hours in (no endings achieved yet), and I gotta say it starts rather slowly with having you going around doing sidequests before dealing with serious story stuff at a pace like in the prologue. The sidequests do show an overall more variety than in the first game in terms of what you actually do, but it's still largely the kind of quests you'd be doing in an MMO even though there are some decisions you can make which don't seem to affect the plot strongly (unfortunately). The world design is okay-ish? It's not that huge to the point where walking from point A to point B takes way too fucking long, and there's still plenty of secrets and items you can find through exploration even if the exploration feels rather underwhelming when most of the shit you find in chests ends up being a meager amount of gold or the umpteenth material only useful for upgrading a weapon you probably will never use. Aside from some hard to reach areas which you have to do some tricky jumps to reach, there's not a lot of hidden stashes protected by powerful foes or something. Unfortunately the world is barren enough that you'll mostly have to rely on point-of-interest markers do 'discover' some stuff.

But one thing that irks me the most is that Automata has next to no sense of natural quest progression. What I'm talking about is that out of the zillion quests you might accept at one time only a few of them are actually more suitable towards your current levels than others. So what ends up happening that at one point you'll be facing enemies who are ten levels higher than you, have ten times more HP than you, and kill you in one hit. In any other WRPG like Gothic the presence of really strong enemies you can barely put a dent in meant that you just had to take another approach or get stronger before you come back, resulting in soft-locked areas where you aren't blocked by invisible walls but just really strong opponents.

Unfortunately interesting things only present themselves in the world if you have accepted a quest which involves you fucking about in that area, meaning that in a previous point in time you might have explored that very place already and found nothing, but now it's inhabited by enemies ten times your size, making the world feel rather artificial and lifeless (no pun intended). But instead of appearing like threats you should avoid until later, the combat in Automata is forgiving enough that you only need to dodge when the flash appears and continue your eternal quest to bring the enemy's infinite HP to zero. One encounter pitted you against one guy with a lot of HP, and it just came down to dodging at the right moment while continuing my small sword light+SSL+SSL+SSL+Large Sword Heavy combo. It was the very definition of repetitive. On Hard difficulty most enemies your level will take you down in four hits already, so it's not like dying in two hits instead is that much of a deal when you have a zillion health items.

But most of all, I miss the banter. They're what made the fetch quests in the first Nier bearable to me, but here nobody but 9S feels like talking to the point where he might as well be the main character. 2B is silent emotionless girl and Pod has no personality aside from some black humor-ish moments. I don't know how likely this is to change as the game goes on, but I do miss the lovable band of degenerates.

The game seems rather passive when it comes to how you should use your items. I prefer to not use them, but in some cases where I'm about to retrieve my dead body and its plug-in chips I'd really prefer to not die and not having to manually reload my save if I do fuck up in the process of retrieving my body and end up permanently losing all my potato chips. I fought really hard to fuse those high-ranking chips together, man.

I guess dodging is unique as it lets you counter attack with a light strike, heavy strike, and a pod shot, although the effects seem to depend on the weapon type. A small weapon counter attack will perform a guaranteed launcher attack, but some enemies seem completely impervious to being launched at all with no visual indication of what enemy type is unlaunchable or not (a reskin of the basic enemy type is not launchable while a boss enemy is? go to hell), so when you do perform a small sword counterattack you'll probably end up just hanging in the air like a dunce while the enemies are chilling on the ground. Not even normal launcher attacks apply in these cases. I'm probably doing something wrong here, but I wouldn't know what.

A counterattack with a large sword or spear seems to perform a straightforward lunge attack. This stuns some enemies, but most robots I fought were apparently not affected at all. You can go all out on stunned enemies for a while, but when you get close to a stunned enemy the Use prompt appears, which lets you perform a pre-baked attack sequence on them similar to the attacks you perform in Furi when you hit an opponent with a charged attack. This flurry attack is also possible when an enemy is low on health, but it's usually faster to just manually slash them until they die, and more than often you'll kill the enemy before you even see the opportunity for a flurry to arise. The thing is that the flurry attack doesn't seem to deal all that much damage in the first place, but it also ends the stun state on the enemy. So you want to deal as much damage to an enemy before the invisible stagger state runs out and then finish it off with the flurry attack.

You can also perform a pod shot counterattack, which just fires one powerful shot at the enemy. I find it to be rather slow and damage output questionable, so I don't use it too much. Most of the time I stick to large sword/spear counterattacks instead of launching only myself into the air, I think there's supposed to be a tactical choice to make here between the three options but I don't see it.

The shmup sections in this game are euroshmup-tier, fancy but not to be taken seriously. It's mostly Yoko Taro trying to shove in as many homages as he can. The usage of bullets during melee combat still feels largely the same like in the first game, where your pod will cancel most of the bullets as you close in and finish the deal, with the occasional uncancelable bullets forcing you to stay back. There's now somewhat more variety here like enemies firing large and fast clusters of bullets and other kind of shit I forgot, but most enemies prefer to just punch you. The enemy variety is rather commendable and isn't just reskinned enemies with more HP (though that does happen).

I like the plug-in chips systems and how sometimes you have to take out some of your system chips to make place for others at the cost of HUD elements. I did notice there's a Counter chips which lets you perform a parry similar to the MGR parry and then follow it up with a counterattack as if you just dodged the opponent, though I don't really see the difference between countering and dodging aside from the required inputs. Higher ranked Counter chips speak of returning a certain amount of damage back to the enemy, just where are the tutorials when you need them?

The weapon set switching mechanic is quite nice as well in terms of what you can do with it to lengthen your combo, although I wish you had dodge offset (which I hear is available as a chip).

Nonetheless, Automata remains an intriguing game. There's still a lot about the premise and story I want to uncover (and the developers' intentions for the combat design decisions) despite how the game seems to focus more on worldbuilding for the first part. I still think Platinum shouldn't bother with stuff like leveling, weapons farming in Transformers Devastation wasn't all that fun either and I'd rather Automata didn't bother with leveling at all, or instead gave you a fixed amount of health and damage output to fuck around with using plug-in chips and pods.

 

[Whisky]

Got Ending A. Enjoying the game so far though I have to agree with a lot of people's complaints that the main characters don't have nearly as interesting banter as Nier did.

I actually like the machines. The good ones actually seem like innocent children who are trying to be adults, except in this case they're robots trying to be humans.

Still, the game is giving me plenty of Yoko Taro crazy and I'm enjoying that.

Spoiler

Robot Jonestown was great!

BECOME AS GODS

 

[janior]