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Nioh 2

Dhaze

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You could, or you could just hang back and pelt him with kunai and poison shurikens (or rakansen coins if you like funny, useless shit like I do).

My point exactly. Because pelting him with kunai and shurikens—how do you achieve that on Dream Of The Nioh or in the Depths? Not with a naked character. You have to build for it. I've never done it, but I'm guessing Master Of Illusions or Dragon Ninja, Marici, Nekomata, Giant Toad, plus all the Untouched Ninjutsu/Ninjutsu Power/Shuriken & Kunai damage you can find or temper.

And no one finds themselves, by sheer luck, fully equipped with what must be one of the oddest, most specific builds there exists in that game. So even if the actual gameplay part of that plan isn't exactly riveting, you nonetheless have to learn how to get there, by interacting with the game beyond 'run away then poke once with a quick attack; repeat ad nauseam'.

I suppose my definition of the things you "need" to learn are the things that can't reasonably be circumvented.

Dodging is shoved out of the equation, then. You don't have to dodge; you can just run out of range, all the time, always.

Why willfully ignore 99,99% of a game's systems, then pretend there's nothing you need to learn?
 

Dhaze

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Know that I clapped very deliberately, with insistence. And was yelling internally, "Dont stop now; go after that knockdown!" around the 3:00 minute mark.

Too bad you didn't have to learn anything to get there. (he said sarcastically, refering to another poster's ideas)

Saito Toshimitsu has the one attack I truly consider as bullshit in that game. He propels a couple of energy arcs from his odachi, and despite seemingly being some sort of elemental attacks like many others they cannot be blocked at all; on top of that their hitboxes are kinda wonky. In Dream Of The Nioh, I've never survived getting hit by one of them, though it might be possible with Oyamatsumi.
 

Dhaze

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Well, it's been so long since I've played that I was actually confounding some of Saito Toshimitsu's attacks with one another. His arc of energy can indeed be blocked (still I was not mistaken about the kinda wonky, lingering hitboxes). edit: wait, no, it can't be blocked? I'm certain I've managed to block it at least once since it destroyed my ki bar but did not inflict actual damage, but just now time it erased 100% of my life through my guard. Uh. Not sure what's going on there.

But he has two other attacks that annoy me.

One is a cool variation of Bolting Boar during which he has some sort of blueish after-image; and if that one connects, block or no block, it takes about 80% of my tankiest build's health. It comes out lightning-fast, too.

The other attack is a variation of Devastating Rush (one of the multiples he uses), during which the tip of his odachi quickly and briefly takes a glint. That one can be blocked and does no damage to me, but very annoyingly it still counts as a hit for Saito, meaning I lose a stack of Rock Solid. But simultaneously it does indeed count as a block for me, since I can get that stack of Rock Solid by attacking back.

Also I don't know if it's because he's sped up so much in Dream Of The Nioh, but if I pancake him with Groundquake I don't always get the prompt for a Final Blow, despite him being clearly flat on the ground. He can get up so fast that my own animation is not yet finished. I vaguely recall this being the case with a few other human enemies as well.

And with a Brute Counter I cannot stop his Burst attacks on reaction, they come out way too fast. I have to anticipate when he's about to do it.

Damn it that's a good game.

Though I wish I could slap whoever at Team Ninja decided that humanoid bosses are not knocked down by Thunderbolt. Now that was a stupid decision. The entire point of that skill is to take a big risk, for a potential big reward—but if the boss isn't knocked down even when Thunderbolt connected at the right moment...
 
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Silverfish

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Because pelting him with kunai and shurikens—how do you achieve that on Dream Of The Nioh or in the Depths?

I don't know. My PS4 is exclusively offline, so I don't have any of the dlc.

Why willfully ignore 99,99% of a game's systems, then pretend there's nothing you need to learn?

I don't. I usually (barring the occasional ninja character) play Nioh in as much of a DMC or Dark Souls style as possible. But no one needs to learn to play it that way, when other methods are not only easier to execute, but more effective as well.

Too bad you didn't have to learn anything to get there. (he said sarcastically, refering to another poster's ideas)

Homo behavior.
 

Dhaze

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Rusty and crusty gameplay after so long, but it's fun to replay a bit. Still no elixir or onmyo or ninjutsu or yokai shift; that was the whole point of this Tatenashi+Acala build.





I really dislike the variation of Charging Bull he gains access to once brought below 50% of his health.

He often uses it after a specific variation of Devastating Rush, and in that case it's mostly ok, since it's at least predictable. But I've also seen him use that Super Mega Ultra Charging Bull completely out of the blue, sometimes to extend his most basic combos. Since it instantly gives him complete hyper armor, and obliterates 95%+ of this build's health despite the huge amount of damage reduction mods I've stacked, that pretty much spells guaranteed death. And it's a 4-hits attack, so even something like Damage Taken Halved (Unscathed) would prove of little to no help.

And I don't understand why, in identical circumstances, using Hard-Headed from the Konaki-Jiji soul core sometimes nets me a knockback, but sometimes does not. In the second video, at the 4:32 mark Saito uses his variation of Cuckoo's Call, after which I immediately use Hard-Headed and get a knockback. Then he does it again at 4:46 and I respond in the exact same way, at the exact same time, but I don't get a knockback. I suspect there's a sort of hidden timer or gauge that makes bosses impervious to the same effect for xx amount of time after first suffering from it, and hidden things like that always bug me.

Aside from that, even in Dream Of The Nioh it's not too bad of a fight. Given the amount of damage he causes I can't take too much risks of powering through his hits, so that greatly limits what I can try—but he could have access to lightning on top of fire and water, so at least there's that.
 
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Sjukob

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Sorry if I snapped guys. The vet had to euthanize my elderly cat, and it's the fucking shittiest day amongst all fucking shitty days.
Sucks man, I had to do same with my cat 2 years ago, because it was terminally ill.

Saito Toshimitsu has the one attack I truly consider as bullshit in that game. He propels a couple of energy arcs from his odachi, and despite seemingly being some sort of elemental attacks like many others they cannot be blocked at all; on top of that their hitboxes are kinda wonky. In Dream Of The Nioh, I've never survived getting hit by one of them, though it might be possible with Oyamatsumi.
To each his own. The attack that gave me the most trouble was his variation of quickdraw or whatever it's called, it's when he sheathes his odaichi, powers up and does a half circle slash forward. It's super fast, has massive reach, fully super armored and he can do it at any time, if you are commited to anything at all when he does it, you are guaranteed to eat it and it hits hard. And his dodges are insane, it's like he's playing Dark Souls or something, he dodges very far and has massive amount of i-frames while doing it. You can press him against a wall and he can still easily avoid your attacks due to the big invulnerability window he gets, when he evades.

Given the amount of damage he causes I can't take too much risks of powering through his hits, so that greatly limits what I can try
Huh, I actually was suprised to see that his damage is generally low, save for a few telegraphed attacks. I mean he doesn't one or two shot you, even in full light armor, so by Nioh metrics he does no damage.

Actually this fight reminds me of Nelo Angelo 3 from DMC1. The same guy with a massive sword, has big reach, a couple of slower attacks that hit extra hard, occasionally throws projectiles, has a good amount of super armor, only that he doesn't dodge/block as much and has a very annoying sword summoning phase. But I liked it a lot nonetheless, now looking back at other bosses I feel like they were too slow and linear in comparison to Toshimitsu.
 
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Lambach

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Hats off to any nigga that can beat Toshimitsu with no cheese. On any difficulty higher than Dream of the Samurai, the only way I can win is by actively denying him the chance to do anything for the entire fight. I buff my weapon (usually Odachi) with Purity, then hit him with Sloth + Lifeseal Talisman. I rarely ever see Lifeseal mentioned anywhere, but against powerful human Bosses, it's a godsend. It severely reduces the target's Ki regeneration.

With the Purity buff chunking his Ki constantly, Sloth making him possible to hit and Lifeseal making sure he never gets the chance to recover Ki, he's pretty much always too low on it to attack and I break his posture for a Final blow all the time.

Fuck all that "honorable duel" jazz, that guy is insane. Him and Ren Hayabusa are the only two Bosses I have to use this tactic against, because I'd never in a million years beat them otherwise.
 

Dhaze

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To each his own. The attack that gave me the most trouble was his variation of quickdraw or whatever it's called, it's when he sheathes his odaichi, powers up and does a half circle slash forward. It's super fast, has massive reach, fully super armored and he can do it at any time, if you are commited to anything at all when he does it, you are guaranteed to eat it and it hits hard.

Imperative Strike. Every odachi user can do it, though Saito does it at something like 5 times the speed.

And his dodges are insane, it's like he's playing Dark Souls or something, he dodges very far and has massive amount of i-frames while doing it. You can press him against a wall and he can still easily avoid your attacks due to the big invulnerability window he gets, when he evades.

His dodges are the one thing that reduces the pool of moves I can use against him to almost nothing.

With an odachi, quick attacks when in middle stance don't bounce off of an enemy's guard. So, using that to my advantage against human enemies, starting from neutral I can reliably force them to guard with two or three quick attacks, then use Charging Bull to end that combo, which causes huge Ki damage if it is guarded and a knockdown if it depletes their Ki bar.

But 70% of the time, Saito can just decide to dodge out of Charging Bull's range. And that move has a long recovery

Huh, I actually was suprised to see that his damage is generally low, save for a few telegraphed attacks. I mean he doesn't one or two shot you, even in full light armor, so by Nioh metrics he does no damage.

Damage in Nioh 2 is overall quite low compared to Nioh 1, at least in the first two difficulties. It doesn't start to ramp up before Dream Of The Demon.

But in Dream Of The Nioh, the number of one-shots suddenly go through the roof. Grabs become especially deadly. I mean, look at my first video against Saito around the 2:33 mark: killed in an instant from 95% health on the tankiest build I've ever put together.

But I liked it a lot nonetheless, now looking back at other bosses I feel like they were too slow and linear in comparison to Toshimitsu.

There are a few human bosses not entirely unlike Saito Toshimitsu towards the end of the game. Though you'll only fight him if you want to master the odachi, Shisenin Kosen is a bit on the insane side with what he can do; big damage, quick dodges and cancels, and sped up animations. In the third and final DLC, Kukai makes for a very good fight, as he can hit really hard and fast, on top of having good range (splitstaff user) and great mobility.

Towards the end of the story, you'll fight a guy called Shuten Doji. Fun boss, if very simple and on the underpowered side. But in the second DLC, Darkness In The Capital there is a mission called The Revelry Ends, in which you'll fight Shuten Doji at the height of his power. He's very fast and aggressive, but with clear tells and punish windows; it's by far one of the best fights in the entire game.

On any difficulty higher than Dream of the Samurai, the only way I can win is by actively denying him the chance to do anything for the entire fight. I buff my weapon (usually Odachi) with Purity, then hit him with Sloth + Lifeseal Talisman. I rarely ever see Lifeseal mentioned anywhere, but against powerful human Bosses, it's a godsend. It severely reduces the target's Ki regeneration.

With the Purity buff chunking his Ki constantly, Sloth making him possible to hit and Lifeseal making sure he never gets the chance to recover Ki, he's pretty much always too low on it to attack and I break his posture for a Final blow all the time.

Oh Lifeseal is indeed a lifesaver. Combining Corruption, Lifeseal, Sloth, and a Familiar Talisman is basically the way to steamroll any human boss who gives you trouble.

Hats off to any nigga that can beat Toshimitsu with no cheese. (...) Fuck all that "honorable duel" jazz, that guy is insane. Him and Ren Hayabusa are the only two Bosses I have to use this tactic against, because I'd never in a million years beat them otherwise.

Ren in particular is kind of a piece of shit. In the time necessary for you to attack once, he can do a 7-hit combo that knock you down and takes 80%+ of your health. I know he's a joke boss in a way, more of a wink wink on the developers' part, but damn, he really is fast as hell.

I actually put that build together because I find it cathartic to beat the likes of Saito Toshimitsu and Ren Hayabusa without any tools other than your weapon and a couple of Yokai skills. It's peculiar to play since you brute force through a lot of things, and it can take some time to gather all the pieces, but I highly encourage anyone to give it a try.
 

Dhaze

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Short video to show one of the funnest build I played with. It's centered around the idea of Paralysis, Sword Of Meditation, Iai Quickdraw, and Night Rain. Goes all over the place gear-wise, since it uses full Futsunushi, plus one piece of National Unity, two pieces of Profligate Sinner, and two pieces of One For All, All For One.



Very gimmicky, and often requires a lot of setup and precise timing in accord with the paralysis buildup. It works absolute wonders against some human enemies, but struggles a bit against others. Terribly frustrating to play anytime an NPC accompanies you, since they just break the paralysis you inflict without leaving you time enough to capitalize on it.
 

Lambach

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Props to you for managing to pull it off, because Paralysis in Nioh 2 has to be the most useless effect I've ever seen in any video-game, ever. Hellishly difficult to actually proc on the vast majority of enemies and once you do, you get the benefit of a grand total of one (1) free hit. And it's not even a Final Blow.
 

Dhaze

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There's a bit of shenanigans going on with Paralysis.

It's possible to hit a paralysed enemy multiple times without breaking him out of it. With Night Rain for example; it's a 4-hit skill, but even if the first hit inflicts paralysis, the subsequent hits won't break that paralysis, while benefiting from any +% Melee Damage Vs. Paralyzed Enemy you might have. Flowing Shadow and Morning Moon work in the same way (I want to say that Sword Of Discernment also does it, but I might be misremembering). The Kiryoki soul core can achieve the same effect when used with the Itokuri guardian spirit.

And with a bit of know-how you can also consistently make a Yokai enemy alternate between the states of 'out of Ki and thus collapsing to ground' and 'paralysed'. So you paralyse him when he's out of Ki, then hit him hard thus breaking his paralysis, but while he's collapsing to the ground because he's out of Ki you inflict him with paralysis anew; rince and repeat. It's extremely effective when you can pull it off. It can melt bosses.

But it's quintessentially a one-trick pony kind of character. If you can't apply paralysis or fail to capitalize on it, well, you're back to playing your character like a regular sword user, and much of your damage potential is gone.

I'll try to record a couple more short videos later. Who knows, it might intrigue someone into playing the game.
 

Lambach

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I'll try to record a couple more short videos later. Who knows, it might intrigue someone into playing the game.

You already got me temped to come back to Nioh 2 from Elden Ring and continue my abandoned Dream of Nioh run. I got a bit tired of it after some ~300 hours since the start of the year and I'm enjoying my ER run very much, but something about that frantic, cheesy, animu-style combat just draws me in.
 

Dhaze

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Embrace the animu; unsheathe your glolious japanese steelu, folded 1000 times; let the sexy waifus corrupt your thoughts.

Here's another recording, not perfect by any means—I'm still too rusty for that—but good enough to show some stuff. This is a Yokai Shift build and though very much unfinished, once shifted, it can bring any Yokai boss down from 100% to 0 with little effort, and without reverting to human form.

For those who don't have the patience, the real fun starts at the 1:07 mark.

 

somerandomdude

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Embrace the animu; unsheathe your glolious japanese steelu, folded 1000 times; let the sexy waifus corrupt your thoughts.

Here's another recording, not perfect by any means—I'm still too rusty for that—but good enough to show some stuff. This is a Yokai Shift build and though very much unfinished, once shifted, it can bring any Yokai boss down from 100% to 0 with little effort, and without reverting to human form.

For those who don't have the patience, the real fun starts at the 1:07 mark.



It took forever to down that boss though, even factoring in that you didn't use cats. Which difficulty/area were you playing in? And how much room for improvement is there to be had damage wise with better equipment?

Ryomen Sukuna was one of the bosses I saw as a free win on depths floors when he showed up. 2 minutes on depths 30 nyotengu or bird bro wouldn't be too bad, but Ryomen Sukuna is supposed to get deleted.
 
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Dhaze

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Any footage I might provide comes from Dream Of The Nioh. As far as damage goes, that build is nowhere near finished so there's a lot of room for improvement. Not everything is about damage, though; and I don't care much for optimising something if it takes fifty hours of farming or more to get there, nor do I care about stacking every possible buff and debuff under the sun.
 

Sjukob

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Short video to show one of the funnest build I played with. It's centered around the idea of Paralysis, Sword Of Meditation, Iai Quickdraw, and Night Rain. Goes all over the place gear-wise, since it uses full Futsunushi, plus one piece of National Unity, two pieces of Profligate Sinner, and two pieces of One For All, All For One.
Nice, that one looked pretty sick.


Here's another recording, not perfect by any means—I'm still too rusty for that—but good enough to show some stuff. This is a Yokai Shift build and though very much unfinished, once shifted, it can bring any Yokai boss down from 100% to 0 with little effort, and without reverting to human form.
For those who don't have the patience, the real fun starts at the 1:07 mark.
From what I've seen, yokai shift stuff can never approach humanoid form in terms of damage dealing, it's moveset is also much more limited, although I think it's pretty fair, since you are invincible as long as you stay in demon form. I think it's nice to be able to play like that, but it appears to be a pretty boring playstyle.
 

cruel

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Nioh isn't a skill-based game and thus doesn't need to be "learned".

I just need to comment on this. Measure the average amount of time it took any new player to beat, say, Hino-Enma or Yuki-Onna, and then measure how much it took on the second playthrough, with similar character, level, equipment etc. You will get something like 10+ vs 2-3, give or take. Equipment matters, sure, but saying Nioh is not a skill-based game is completely untrue. Anybody who plays it like Souls game and refuses to learn will suffer greatly.
 

Silverfish

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Playing Nioh like a souls game is explicitly gimping yourself (I know from experience). Ninjutsu / Onmyo spam is the key to success, but I'd hardly call it skillful.
 

Suicidal

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The only game shown during this summer shit fest I'm excited for so far. Dragon's Dogma 2 tomorrow, right guys?

FGwoewgWUAoY0OS
 

Dhaze

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Proof that From Software is a couple steps behind Team Ninja, who already did The Loathsome Dung-Eater!

Anyway, I've tinkered a bit with my Yokai build.

Adding to the pieces of Crime Of Patricide as well as Shadows Of a Dream I already possessed, I now have a full set of Sarutahiko's grace after a bit of mayhem through The Underworld. Currently using Itsumade, Lady Osakabe, and Ubume as soul cores attached to Yumehami; and Yatsu-no-Kami plus whatever has +% Amrita Earned attached to Saoirse. I've also overhauled the temperings on my gear, and am considering dropping the Dual Swords in favor of the Splitstaff, since I'm very much after Ki damage to get that first Yokai grab.

Main takeaways for now:

– Downtime between Yokai Shifts is now reduced to almost nothing; under favorable conditions, I can fill the Amrita Gauge from 0% to 100% in two seconds without ever using Spirit Stones, and even when unfavorable it doesn't take much longer than that.
– Cursed enemies in The Depths have become a joke; even threats like Ongyoki, Fuki, and the king-of-all-bastards Itsumade can't so much as act unless I make a huge mistake.

I still have to get a good Lady Osakabe core with Nullify Damage (Yokai Shift), but I don't have her on a scroll, so I'm forced to run through The Golden Castle to get one measly drop... Would love to attune Kasha (cast-and-forget) + Osakabe (stunlock and damage) + Ubume (ki destroyer) as it would be hilariously powerful, but unless I find all three with -1 Attunement Requirement that's not gonna happen—and I'm not going to farm for days. Also, I might try Path Of The Beast, if I can get it on a scroll.

Here's a vid against Ryomen Sukuna, more precisely his Cursed version in a Scroll Of The Damned, meaning a whole lotta health:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5zNQhIvAw8 — (media embed is fucked for now, I guess?)


All in all, I think the Attunement limit on Guardian Spirits was a mistake on Team Ninja's part. As well, the chunk of amrita gauge that disappear every time you switch from one Spirit Guardian to the other while in Yokai Shift is dreadfully dumb; I see no valid reason for its existence whatsoever.
 

Sjukob

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I haven't had much time to play lately, so my progress was very slow. I took down Shibata 2 days ago, I've seen a lot of people say that he was extremely bullshit boss fight, but I think that if you managed to get past Enenra and Yatsu-No-Kami then it's pretty much guaranteed that you can beat the game no problem.

But frankly, I can't remember the last time the game managed to make me this assmad. I remember feeling agitated playing DMC1 on DmD or SoRR on mania, but it's not even remotely comparable to what Nioh does to me. I guess rage is the prime motivation for me to play further.
 

Sjukob

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I haven't had much time to play lately, so my progress was very slow. I took down Shibata 2 days ago, I've seen a lot of people say that he was extremely bullshit boss fight, but I think that if you managed to get past Enenra and Yatsu-No-Kami then it's pretty much guaranteed that you can beat the game no problem.
Yeah, I've just returned to Shibata and proceeded to die on him on purpose just to see what he can do. If you made it that far, and especially beaten Toshimitsu, there's just no way that this boss can stop you, all of his attacks are slow, very distinct and clearly telegraphed. I think the only tricky part about the fight is that you can break his tusks to stop him from charging and you can't just use any attack to do that, you have to know exactly which attacks you can use, because the hitboxes are very finicky. Oh and you have to figure out that you have to attack him while he's charging at you. After looking at his attacks I killed him without taking a single hit on my first real attempt, previously I just salted him and used ninjutsu feathers to nuke him. I might record a video sometime this week.

This guy here explains the strategy to fight him pretty well:
 
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