NovelAI - AI becomes gamemaster in text based RPG. And handles everything.

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

Oh so now you climbed down from "AI" is making artists obsolete to "AI" is a tool that fiverr artists can use to speed up furry portraits.

No, I'm pointing out that you think it's a magical blackbox.
If you trained a model to do what you want, it would produce the result you wanted.

So to get it to do isometric art assets, it needs a whole new technology basically.
If you have to rebuild it for every different art then its hardly replacing artists or saving costs is it?

And again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
"whole new technology" = renting a gpu for about $4 an hour from google or amazon to train a model

Maybe you have no idea what you're talking about?
Do you really believe this is going to work by just by providing a new training set?

...yes, that's how it works.
I know what I'm talking about because this has become a part of my job -- training models to recognize certain medical conditions because we aid in diagnoses. The main difference is we have our own GPU farm, which I use for funny koboldAI stuff when there's a free cluster(99% of the time)

Pray tell what on earth is the connection between pattern fitting for medical diagnosis and generating isometric tilesets?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Pray tell what on earth is the connection between pattern fitting for medical diagnosis and generating isometric tilesets?

They're both powered by machine learning.

I guarantee you could take SD and finetune it for isometric art within a few hours if you had a good dataset on hand to train it with.
How do you think "WaifuDiffusion" was made?

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

Pray tell what on earth is the connection between pattern fitting for medical diagnosis and generating isometric tilesets?

They're both powered by machine learning.

I guarantee you could take SD and finetune it for isometric art within a few hours if you had a good dataset on hand to train it with.
How do you think "WaifuDiffusion" was made?

With game assets the art aspects needs to be combined with precision, and planning. Something these art generators are spectacularly bad at. There is no evidence this approach would work, in fact the evidence suggests the opposite.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

 

[Perkel]

I started to play with with mentioned by me lorebooks. I downloaded Dragon Age one which has like few 100s of entries describing everything from magic, spells, places, people etc.
Without me prompting for specifics one of characters started to talk about how only mages can see into fade with potion (other character isn't mage). Scene was preparation for creating magic circle to connect to fade and try to talk with souls of academy member people. didn't even need to correct anything.

Still sometimes you get weird results but pretty much with lorebook full of entries and some summary it follows it pretty good with barely any correction. As long as numbers and counting isn't involved it handles stuff pretty well.

I imagine that some AAA rpg in future will implement something like that for non unique npcs as kind of morrowind esque system where you can ask people stuff.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Perkel, you would have flipped your lid had you played AID's Dragon back in the summer of 2019. It "knew" a lot more even without lorebooks, and was a lot more creative than NAI's best models. Gone now though.

I would suggest trying to play without Text Adventure mode though. Whatever they did to the module seems inferior to the vanilla model. Things just seem to come out simpler. You can use a second-person narrative even without the Text Adventure mode being on.

I think they are planning a second version of Text Adventure mode sometime after they release modules version 2 with their new hypernetworks though.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

everyone welcome the newest member of the codex, GamerChad.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

wait wait wait I take it back, go away gamerchad

stupid AI junk

 

[Sarathiour]

Create the avatar of consensus, end up blowing up his own contrarian position.

I'm pretty sure you saw that coming.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Create the avatar of consensus, end up blowing up his own contrarian position.

I'm pretty sure you saw that coming.

he agreed it's not an RPG though.

 

[Sarathiour]

Create the avatar of consensus, end up blowing up his own contrarian position.

I'm pretty sure you saw that coming.

he agreed it's not an RPG though.

it's just an rpg, but with a modern spin to it

So, it contradicted himself in just two post ?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Create the avatar of consensus, end up blowing up his own contrarian position.

I'm pretty sure you saw that coming.

he agreed it's not an RPG though.

it's just an rpg, but with a modern spin to it

So, it contradicted himself in just two post ?

He made the same argument that many codexers do: "it's not a traditional RPG" aka it's not an RPG.
It's more unique in that it's a game of a very niche genre that barely exists: Digital gamebooks, which is itself a digital adaptation of an offshoot of RPGs.

Of course then, it makes sense that it resembles an RPG, and for some may be hard to tell apart, but it is not an RPG.

 

[Sarathiour]

Rusty, I agree that your definition of " digital gamebooks" is probably the closest thing to an accurate definition of what genre DE belongs, but that's not what the AI is saying here, because the Ai does not think.

You're projecting your own opinions on a vague statement.

reminder :

Many say it's not a rpg, but I disagree

It's just an rpg

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Rusty, I agree that your definition of " digital gamebooks" is probably the closest thing to an accurate definition of what genre DE belongs, but that's not what the AI is saying here, because the Ai does not think.

You're projecting your own opinions on a vague statement.

reminder :

Many say it's not a rpg, but I disagree

It's just an rpg

Why would you insult GamerChad like that?

 

[Sarathiour]

Why would he insult himself like that ?

 

[Serus]

That was precisely my point, they look incredibly bland despite being handmade. I have no doubt that it will be quite easy to get something that look barely distinct from ubi map using machine learning.

And it would just as much shit.

AI could potentially make stuff better than most people make for games. Be it stories, graphics, whatever. Not all content can be of equal quality even in a good product. Financial limitations, time constraints or lack of available talent makes it impossible. AI could create the lesser parts "well enough". That would leave the real author(s) with more resources to do the important parts. In the end - increase the quality overall. Think of some renowned artists from the past who had helpers. Especially ones painting big stuff. The "genius", the master painter, devised the idea for the painting and made important work, apprentices made the rest. Not geniuses themselves but good enough to do reasonably well. Alone they would make derivative and bland art but instead they helped created masterpieces. Isn't that what AI is or could be? The issue is, although the companies often do "procedural" content, the tools used to do it are primitive, few resources goes there. Perhaps AI can change that in the future - It uses algorithms light years ahead of what game companies use.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

The increase in quality would mainly come from the current crop of pinko artists and screenwriters no longer having as much input, or being forced to entertain suggestions models that were trained on centuries of literature and art, rather than the tumblr blogs they grew up with.

For example, NAI's image gen has a bias toward attractive women with large breasts. You can be as liberal as you like, but when half of what you generate ends up good-looking and big-breasted, you're probably going to have at least one attractive woman in your game.

Compare that to hiring your liberal art student dropout friend from college: even if you want "her" to draw an attractive woman, it's still probably going to come out fat, short-haired and wearing problem glasses.

 

[Sarathiour]

That was precisely my point, they look incredibly bland despite being handmade. I have no doubt that it will be quite easy to get something that look barely distinct from ubi map using machine learning.

And it would just as much shit.

AI could potentially make stuff better than most people make for games. Be it stories, graphics, whatever. Not all content can be of equal quality even in a good product. Financial limitations, time constraints or lack of available talent makes it impossible. AI could create the lesser parts "well enough". That would leave the real author(s) with more resources to do the important parts. In the end - increase the quality overall. Think of some renowned artists from the past who had helpers. Especially ones painting big stuff. The "genius", the master painter, devised the idea for the painting and made important work, apprentices made the rest. Not geniuses themselves but good enough to do reasonably well. Alone they would make derivative and bland art but instead they helped created masterpieces. Isn't that what AI is or could be? The issue is, although the companies often do "procedural" content, the tools used to do it are primitive, few resources goes there. Perhaps AI can change that in the future - It uses algorithms light years ahead of what game companies use.

I never denied that machine learning ai would serve as an useful tool, they're going to put a rather hard limit on how low quality could get for any decent production, ie can't get worse than ai-generated. The rest of your comparison is pretty good, that's also how I'm seeing it : its's going to help lay the "groundwork" in a task, but you're still going to need human input to turn this into a quality product.

 

[Sarathiour]

Yeah, don't worry NEG, machine learning will do a fine job churning out even more isekai for you to enjoy

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

ie can't get worse than ai-generated.

Never outsourced much work, I take it?

but you're still going to need human input to turn this into a quality product.

You need human input just to generate something. You need human input to train and refine the models.

When will you guys quit pretending we're saying this is a "true AI" that operates on its own and prints magic images out of nowhere?

And quit talking like it's going to happen in the future. You use machine learning products EVERY DAY.

Ever looked at a street map in Google? Do you realize that most of the building footprints were generated using machine learning?

Ever looked at traffic in Google? Machine learning came up with the travel time estimate based on past and current conditions.

Is Google Maps a quality product? Quality enough to be used by billions of people worldwide.

 

[Sarathiour]

Never outsourced much work, I take it?

I did not think there could be any confusion about my statement, yet here we are:

Machine learning ai will set a standard for outsourcing, if you they can't do a better job than that, third-worlder are going to get the axe. Do you understand ?

You need human input just to generate something. You need human input to train and refine the models.

When will you guys quit pretending we're saying this is a "true AI" that operates on its own and prints magic images out of nowhere?

Okay, missing the point again.

If you think machine learning should be used as the sole tool, you're a retard. No, just feeding it the "correct" amount of data to train and the "correct" prompt won't be enough.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I did not think there could be any confusion about my statement, yet here we are:

You're writing in broken English in half your posts, friendo. Don't blame me if my universal translator acts up now and again.

When you say stuff like:

I never denied that machine learning ai would serve as an useful too, they're going to put a rather hard limit on how low quality could get for any decent production, ie can't get worse than ai-generated.

There just might be some confusion about what the heck you're saying.

Machine learning ai will set a standard for outsourcing, if you they can't do a better job than that, third-worlder are going to get the axe. Do you understand ?

Now that you actually mentioned employees and their getting fired, yes. I'll try to put more points into my telepathy skill in the future.

If you think machine learning should be used as the sole tool, you're a retard. No, just feeding it the "correct" amount of data to train and the "correct" prompt won't be enough.

That's literally what Google does though, and they have a gross revenue that dwarfs many countries. There is still human input and human refinement, don't get me wrong, but it takes place on a different level than you're implying is possible.

That predictive search algorithm you see is literally just that - the correct amount of data, combined with the correct prompt. You're writing both and not even realizing it.

No one has to sit and watch every individual output it generates. The product is delivered to the end user without them even having to think about it.

 

[Sarathiour]

I'll concede your points about me having a terrible grammar, I unfortunately don't have that much opportunity to correct myself, everyone in my country suck at English.
I nevertheless thought that "get worse" is a correct idiom, feel free to enlighten me on that.

Now that you actually mentioned employees and their getting fired, yes. I'll try to put more points into my telepathy skill in the future.

I can got trough the hassle to digging out my old post in one of the bazillon AI thread if needed, but I'm gonna try to argue in good faith and suppose you missed it. When you're outsourcing, you're rarely expecting the result to be pristine work, you're trying to cut cost on either time or money. Hence the outsourcing to company that are located in Asia most of the time.

hat's literally what Google does though, and they have a gross revenue that dwarfs many countries

You're talking about the search engines itself or the way advertisement work ? Either way, the real feat was the scale upon which it was permitted, not the end result itself. Google has became a dogshit search engine, because the result are way too much curated, I'm pretty sure there is already a thread about it on the SCIENCE subforum. Targeted advertisement is hardly an innovation, opening any kind of magazines from 40 years ago will prove that.

So, to reiterate, it's an interesting and powerful tool, but I'm exhausted from seeing all of this snake-peddling shit and clickbaiting thread loudly claiming that the overlord AI reckoning's day is upon us.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I nevertheless thought that "get worse" is a correct idiom, feel free to enlighten me on that.

It's not. It's not an idiom either, but that's beside the point. "Do worse" is correct in this context. But the sentence is still unclear that the subject is a person and not a product.

When you're outsourcing, you're rarely expecting the result to be pristine work, you're trying to cut cost on either time or money.

No. It depends on the product and the field. And candidates will outright lie about their abilities, and you can get back work that looks NOTHING like what you wanted and is completely unusable.

High turnover with new hires matters less with outsourcing than with local hiring. In the majority of cases, you just fire the bad apple and grab another one with your total costs far less than a bad American hire.

AI is the same concept, but an order of magnitude faster and cheaper. There is no hiring or firing, just generate a new image.

And in the case of Google's applications, the work simply can't be done by humans. Can you imagine how many people it would take to go over every satellite image of the entire planet and outline the buildings? Or to plan traffic routes in real-time? It's just unrealistic.

Google has became a dogshit search engine, because the result are way too much curated, I'm pretty sure there is already a thread about it on the SCIENCE subforum.

Do you think it's curated by humans? lol. Maybe some results are in a way, but the vast majority are curated using machine learning.

The same can be done with text generation and image generation AIs. Stable Diffusion has a built-in censor option, and both it and GPT have the ability to ban individual tokens, though you don't really need machine learning for the latter.

Targeted advertisement is hardly an innovation, opening any kind of magazines from 40 years ago will prove that.

When you're so mad at AI that you say stuff like this, it's hard to take you seriously.

So, to reiterate, it's an interesting and powerful tool, but I'm exhausted from seeing all of this snake-peddling shit and clickbaiting thread loudly claiming that the overlord AI reckoning's day is upon us.

So exhausted that you're in every AI thread on this website.

 

[grimace]

Is gamerchadd a user pleaser?

Always agreeing with the input from it's master.