Decline Now that the dust has settled, can we admit that Disco Elysium is decline?

[Trashos]

One thing DE seems to have managed to do is make non-communists turn on each other. This surely counts for something.

 

[Owlish]

Semi-interesting story bogged down by reddit-tier political gommentary, a true lack of choice & consequences, progression railroaded behind repeatable skill checks, and an anticlimactic ending. The only reason it gets as much traction around here is twofold: First, the absolutely abysmal state of CRPGs (or CRPG-Likes in DE's case) and second, the propaganda efforts of the Disco cabal of communists, socialists, and anarcho-syndicalists. These people are willing to lie, cheat and steal if it means duping another person into accepting their ideology.

They tried to tell us the game had "immense C&C" when the consequences boil down mostly to being treated to a different piece of interrupting flavor text rather than anything actually substantial. They claim the game has a plethora of ideologies to choose from, but the only ideas that are written with any honesty are leftist ideologies, whereas anything to the right of Stalin is derided and clearly written by people whose entire understanding of right-wing ideologies comes from /r/chapotraphouse memes.

The game is also pushed and praised by the Marxist-Leninist GAMES MEDIA, which is clearly understood to be a source of decline, not only in crpgs, but in all of gaming. And yet in this instance, many on the codex are in lock step with the Lügenspielpresse. An influx of Marxist sympathizers have been slowly infiltrating this website over the last few years in a concerted effort to spread decline.

When The Outer Worlds was praised by the media, the codex laughed. When Divinity: OS was praised by the media, the codex cringed. But now, when the praises are lavished on the latest adventure game-cum-visual novel solely based on its political leanings, many on the Codex celebrated. Is this where RPG Codex is, now? Purveyors of milquetoast CRPGS? A slightly edgier RPGWatch?

IF YOU SEE SOMEONE PRAISING DISCO ELYSIUM, UPDATE YOUR .TXT, BECAUSE REST ASSURED THEY'VE ALREADY UPDATED THEIRS.

I said pretty much all of this and only got hated on by the fanboys

I'll add that it fails completely as a detective story, and felt like it took place inside of a matchbox.

 

[Junmarko]

Now I am tempted to play it just so I can trashtalk it.

It's much more enjoyable to boycott play but continue trashtalking it, because the cult wants you to play in hopes you'll be converted

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Again, Disco Elysium doesn't need "combat", this is not an action game, is a role-playing game, so the core of the gameplay is the role-playing. This is self-evident. You have every right to enjoy games like the old Dungeon and Dragons, overly focused around vermin extermination, but trying to turn every RPG on that is uninteresting and soulless.

"Again, Disco Adventure doesn't need puzzles, this is not a puzzle game, is an adventure game, so the core of the gameplay is the adventure. This is self-evident. You have every right to enjoy games like the old Zork, overly focused around solving puzzles, but trying to turn every adventure game on that is uninteresting and soulless."

"Again, Disco Fighting doesn't need player-versus-player, this is not a PvP game, is a fighting game, so the core of the gameplay is the fighting. This is self-evident. You have every right to enjoy games like the old Streetfighter II, overly focused around competition, but trying to turn every fighting game on that is uninteresting and soulless."

"Again, Disco Beat-'em'up doesn't need boss fights, this is not a boss game, is a beat-'em-up game, so the core of the gameplay is the beat-'em-up. This is self-evident. You have every right to enjoy games like the old Golden Axe, overly focused around tough bosses, but trying to turn every beat-'em-up on that is uninteresting and soulless."

It's almost as though not every genre has a name that in itself describes the genre and differentiates it from other genres. And this is above all true of the RPG, which has the most complex combination of fundamental mechanics, even if these can be grouped into the three categories of character, combat, and exploration.

 

[Stakhanov]

So if an RPG offers a non-combat path through the game, then that is like a non-RPG minigame or what? The combat mechanics in RPGs are not distinctive and therefore cannot serve to differentiate them from other genres, unless we turn RPGs into a sub-genre. The distinctive aspect is a stats and skills system that link to any type of actions the system wants to explore.

 

[Junmarko]

So if an RPG offers a non-combat path through the game, then that is like a non-RPG minigame or what? The combat mechanics in RPGs are not distinctive and therefore cannot serve to differentiate them from other genres, unless we turn RPGs into a sub-genre. The distinctive aspect is a stats and skills system that link to any type of actions the system wants to explore.

Not at all, there just needs to be a game involved. You still need to be playing against an A.I opponent.

Video Games became appealing as a medium because the platform offered an A.I opponent to challenge the player - RPGs benefit from this greatly because PnP counterparts can only offer so much challenge outside roleplay, CRPGs can give both roleplay and a tactical challenge. Whether it'd be Rtwp, Turn-based, FPP, FPP-with pause etc - whatever a dev chooses (Disco Homos will just dismiss the appeal of tactics as "violent combat porn" or some shit - because they are highbrow ponces)

 

[gestalt11]

Have y’all tried updating your graphics card? I noticed in addition to Disco some of the other gaems you mentioned (Divinity: OS, Outer Worlds) are somewhat graphically intense and if you’re running these off of integrated graphics i can see how they’d seem pretty frustrating.

So I can see the horror show that is Outer Worlds character faces clearer? No thank you.

 

[gestalt11]

DE doesn't have plot RPC&C it has "how do you want the story told to you" C&C

it is that there is a concerted effort by ideologues to push the game as being better than it is for a variety of nefarious reasons, being agents of decline.

What ideologues? You actually think there is a communist conspiracy to push this game?

There is always a communist conspiracy. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with this game, but you can be sure its out there. Lurking. Plotting. Smelling its own farts and being up its own ass.

 

[Stakhanov]

So if an RPG offers a non-combat path through the game, then that is like a non-RPG minigame or what? The combat mechanics in RPGs are not distinctive and therefore cannot serve to differentiate them from other genres, unless we turn RPGs into a sub-genre. The distinctive aspect is a stats and skills system that link to any type of actions the system wants to explore.

Video Games became appealing as a medium because the platform offered an A.I opponent to challenge the player - RPGs benefit from this greatly because PnP counterparts can only offer so much challenge outside roleplay, CRPGs can give both roleplay and a tactical challenge. Whether it'd be Rtwp, Turn-based, FPP, FPP-with pause etc - whatever a dev chooses (Disco Homos will just dismiss the appeal of tactics as "violent combat porn" or some shit - because they are highbrow ponces)

You're confusing the origin of gaming's appeal with a definitional question. Yet you also separate roleplaying from tactics in your response, which was more or less my argument to begin with. Combat is not necessary for roleplaying to take place. That doesn't mean it can't provide enjoyment or that it can't be a major element of a good RPG. The issue is that so many RPGs have devolved into fetch and kill without much exploring other possibilities. As I've said elsewhere, I don't view DE as a model for all RPGs to emulate, it just turns the character-building and interactions of standard RPGs on their head and shows what would be possible if designers pushed themselves to be more creative.

The debate of "story-fag vs. combatfag" is not addressing the real issue of what DE has contributed to the genre. 99 percent of all RPGs will have action or strategy mechanics as core systems. But what we might see is a greater range of roleplaying possibilities and more attention paid to the craft of writing. I don't think anyone loses here, but for some DE has obviously committed the cardinal sin of being both non-traditional and popular.

 

[Lady_Error]

CRPGs can give both roleplay and a tactical challenge. Whether it'd be Rtwp, Turn-based, FPP, FPP-with pause etc - whatever a dev chooses (Disco Homos will just dismiss the appeal of tactics as "violent combat porn" or some shit - because they are highbrow ponces)

Nobody is dismissing combatfag RPG's, however some homos like you are trying hard to dismiss storyfag RPG's. Stats and skills that have an effect on gameplay is what makes an RPG - whether with or without combat. Combatfag communists want all RPG's to be the same - a totalitarian mindset that they project on the storyfags.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Did anyone ever complain about Quest for Glory being called an RPG btw?

Quest for Glory was presented as a combination of RPG and adventure game, with at least as much of the latter. And no-one would have complained about this, since it was true.

 

[Junmarko]

Combat is not necessary for roleplaying to take place.

Tactics and Roleplaying are both necessary for a CRPG to take place.

 

[Stakhanov]

Combat is not necessary for roleplaying to take place.

Tactics and Roleplaying are both necessary for a CRPG to take place.

So Gothic/Risen aren't RPGs then? Shall we just strike out all games that have action mechanics? What about Morrowind? Where were the tactics in Witcher 3?

If that's what you want to do, at least you'll be consistent, but on the other hand that is going to remove a lot of games that are top Codex RPGs of all time. When it comes down to it, this kind of attempt to stake out boundaries is absurd posturing that takes place far too often.

 

[Junmarko]

So Gothic/Risen aren't RPGs then? Shall we just strike out all games that have action mechanics? What about Morrowind? Where were the tactics in Witcher 3?

There are tactics. You have an A.I opponent that challenges your wits as a player. Action, turn-based, RtwP, FPP, whatever system a dev chooses to implement, the thing that makes CRPGs appealing is that the very best of them have some form of this combined with heavy roleplaying. Comparisons of each gameplay genre are an entirely different argument.

Disco Elysium has nada. There's no gameplay, no challenge, so no appeal to a very large portion of crpg grogs. Nothing wrong with being a point-and-click hybrid either, it's just as Zed Duke of Banville said above, just call it what it is.

Roguey calling it Disco Prententious was dead on

 

[Stakhanov]

So Gothic/Risen aren't RPGs then? Shall we just strike out all games that have action mechanics? What about Morrowind? Where were the tactics in Witcher 3?

There are tactics. You have an A.I opponent that challenges your wits as a player. Action, turn-based, RtwP, FPP, whatever system a dev chooses to implement, the thing that makes CRPGs appealing is that the very best of them have some form of this combined with heavy roleplaying. Comparisons of each gameplay genre are an entirely different argument.

Disco Elysium has nada. There's no challenge, so no appeal to a very large portion of crpg grogs. Nothing wrong with being a point-and-click hybrid either, it's just as Zed Duke of Banville said above, just call it what it is.

Roguey calling it Disco Prententious was dead on

Tactics makes it sound like you mean strategy games btw, so just stick to saying combat. But again, no one who enjoys RPGs tends to rave about how awesome it is that you get to press buttons to engage in hack and slash. Very few games have "heavy" roleplaying because there are no options besides killing. You get that, right? If you make combat the focus, you are pouring all of your design resources into that basket.

If we judge RPGs like Fallout or Arcanum from the lens of their strategy combat, they would probably be amongst the worst RPGs of all time, for obvious reasons. But they are often considered among the best. I wonder why that is, maybe because they do a lot of other things right that align with good RPG design?

I agree that Disco Elysium is most likely the easiest RPG of all time. The whole premise of the game is about dealing with and overcoming failure. But if you had to save up skillpoints as in AoD for really punishing checks, would that be enough for you to think it's a good game? If it had really punishing checks, that would be terrible design, because it has so many different skills and possible combinations that you're just fucking over the player at that point. The "failing forward" idea is a good way of getting around that problem, by allowing players to get by with a variety of possible builds. It works for the kind of narrative and tabletop roleplaying system they were going for. But if you just want to apply the same standards to every game regardless of their differences, you do you.

 

[jebsmoker]

If we judge RPGs like Fallout or Arcanum from the lens of their strategy combat, they would probably be amongst the worst RPGs of all time, for obvious reasons. But they are often considered among the best. I wonder why that is, maybe because they do a lot of other things right that align with good RPG design?

hold on there bucko. fallout 1 and 2 have great hex-and-counter based combat that's accented by the great sound design and impactful animations

 

[AwesomeButton]

Remind me why should I care a bunch of tryhards don't like DE.

 

[Latro]

Remind me why should I care a bunch of tryhards don't like DE.

The argument is that it is not an RPG, not whether the game is good or not.

 

[Stakhanov]

If we judge RPGs like Fallout or Arcanum from the lens of their strategy combat, they would probably be amongst the worst RPGs of all time, for obvious reasons. But they are often considered among the best. I wonder why that is, maybe because they do a lot of other things right that align with good RPG design?

hold on there bucko. fallout 1 and 2 have great hex-and-counter based combat that's accented by the great sound design and impactful animations

I'm not saying they're bad. I'm saying if I applied the same out-of-context standards to FO 1/2 (as inspired by XCOM), I could make the argument that they're simplistic and unchallenging in comparison to XCOM, where you control more than 1 character and have a lot more things to manage. But I wouldn't do that, because I'm not simple-minded enough to think that RPGs require a checklist of specific mechanics that are accidental to roleplaying.

 

[Harthwain]

Remind me why should I care a bunch of tryhards don't like DE.

The argument is that it is not an RPG, not whether the game is good or not.

Not in this thread, no. In this thread Disco is decline, because communists.

 

[Junmarko]

The argument is that it is not an RPG, not whether the game is good or not.

Lol. There's no argument dude. Just a lot of amusement. It's like Scientologists releasing a visual-novel as a CRPG and them trying to convince everyone it's anything more than a tribute piece to the philosophy of L. Ron Hubbard.

Ignoring that people wouldn't really give a shit, as long as there was gameplay, they'd probably still play it. Disco Elysium 2 will probably be codex #1 if they actually be smart and attach a game to it.

I like how they praised thier deity Karl Marx at the game awards too

 

[Prime Junta]

Soooo what do you do when someone tells you stop bothering him with your butthurt bitch melodrama about a fucking game?

Don’t worry comrade, he’s not butthurt. It’s just friendly banter. He said so himself in this very thread.

Spoiler

 

[Prime Junta]

/me catches up

Good, good. I was starting to worry this thread wouldn’t deliver.

Disco and Communism are serious business.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

The answer to this question is hidden near the end of Disco Elysium. Now go forth and search for enlightenment, o blessed truthseeker.

Didn't read your take on Disco, only on ATOM, but I think it is saying that the game is awesome, because this is awesome and everybody need to buy Disco Elysium and vote for it as GOTY.

 

[Prime Junta]

Didn't read your take on Disco, only on ATOM, but I think it is saying that the game is awesome, because this is awesome and everybody need to buy Disco Elysium and vote for it as GOTY.

Read it now, zoomer.