NWN2 OC was not bad as people make it out

[Cael]

I forgot how damn good the siege is, felt like Druss on Eldibar fighting back the undead and destroying the towers. Damn well implemented how they did that, seeing the towers rolling across the fields and then crashing into the wall, really good use o engine.

Kind of goes downhill a bit after that.

The one place where Qara's pyromania really shines :D

 

[Cael]

Thing is that if Beamdog aquired time travel, went back and stole the main campaign story and prevented NWN2 from being created - then came back and created a IE expansion with the NWN2 campaign and its story...most RPG fans would probably consider it to be 'alright'. I expect the Codex reviewers would.

There's a statement begging to be shit rated. But you all know deep down that it's true. And no I'm not a Beamdog fan.

Don't be a fucking idiot.

If Beamdog did the NWN2 OC, Sand would be gay, Qara would be a tranny, Elanee would die a horrible death, Neeshka would be hyper hyper, Casavir and Bishop would openly want to bone your male MC... in a threesome, and the final battle would include the King of Shadows in an orgy with all characters plus Nasher and Nevalle involved.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Neeshka would be hyper hyper

Basically the same.

 

[Cael]

Neeshka would be hyper hyper

Basically the same.

Even more hyper. Think Dragonlance gnome crossed with a kender.

To believe that cuckdog is capable of anything other than Flanderising everything they touch and/or turn it into alphabet soup is overly optimistic by far.

 

[Fedora Master]

The only thing NWN2 needs is a slight technical touch-up for modern systems (Which Beamdog are too incompetent do to) and maybe Steam Workshop support.

 

[Chippy]

Thing is that if Beamdog aquired time travel, went back and stole the main campaign story and prevented NWN2 from being created - then came back and created a IE expansion with the NWN2 campaign and its story...most RPG fans would probably consider it to be 'alright'. I expect the Codex reviewers would.

There's a statement begging to be shit rated. But you all know deep down that it's true. And no I'm not a Beamdog fan.

Don't be a fucking idiot.

If Beamdog did the NWN2 OC, Sand would be gay, Qara would be a tranny, Elanee would die a horrible death, Neeshka would be hyper hyper, Casavir and Bishop would openly want to bone your male MC... in a threesome, and the final battle would include the King of Shadows in an orgy with all characters plus Nasher and Nevalle involved.

The problem with letting you innermost desires shine through to the surface like that is that Beamdog are probably - at this moment - taking notes and inspiration from them.

 

[M. AQVILA]

At first I thought you were talking about Bioware's NWN so I rated disagree, that game was a turd.

But yeah I agree, NWN 2 wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. It was certainly enjoyable and far better than any of the modern kickstarter games released recently like PoE, Tyranny, the InXile games, etc. And way better, by far, than Storm of Zehir.

 

[Max Damage]

That's one real faint praise.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Well, it wasn't great but at the very least it was enjoyable. Unlike the other games I mentioned.

 

[Fedora Master]

The OC is just your average by-the-numbers Bioware story that they've recycled since Baldur's Gate, complete with the Standard Set of Bioware Characters.
>Kooky crazy warrior -> Minsk/Khelgar
>Hyped up female rogue -> Imoen/Neeshka
>Matronly older woman -> Jaheira/Elanee
>Stick-in-the-ass paladin -> Ajantis/Casavir
and so forth.

 

[Santander02]

On the subject of the wall, I don't see what exactly makes it "evil". Souls who don't resist it quickly dissolve into it and...stop existing, ie. what (most) atheists believe happens after death. When you meet Bishop in it you actually hear him say how he actually welcomes oblivion ("that's paradise!") and blames beings like Kaelyn and the crusade for "infecting" the souls with hope and prolonging their suffering.


(More MotB derailing incoming, sorry 'bout that)

 

[Neanderthal]

Being tortured into non existence must be a bit painful and galling, especially when it's done based not on morality or conduct but on worshipping a fellow mortal who got lucky in God lottery of Faerun.

 

[laclongquan]

The OC is just your average by-the-numbers Bioware story that they've recycled since Baldur's Gate, complete with the Standard Set of Bioware Characters.
>Kooky crazy warrior -> Minsk/Khelgar
>Hyped up female rogue -> Imoen/Neeshka
>Matronly older woman -> Jaheira/Elanee
>Stick-in-the-ass paladin -> Ajantis/Casavir
and so forth.

You are talking about archetype of characters, something exist in SF/fantasy and most especially in games.
It's like you are complain about water is wet or something. yeah, it's wet. so?

And Bioware do not have ownership right on these ideas~

 

[Average Manatee]

On the subject of the wall, I don't see what exactly makes it "evil". Souls who don't resist it quickly dissolve into it and...stop existing, ie. what (most) atheists believe happens after death. When you meet Bishop in it you actually hear him say how he actually welcomes oblivion ("that's paradise!") and blames beings like Kaelyn and the crusade for "infecting" the souls with hope and prolonging their suffering.


(More MotB derailing incoming, sorry 'bout that)

Yeah. It's also not clear what the alternative is supposed to be. So you took down the wall. Great. Now where do the souls go? Can't go to D&D heaven because that's the domains of the gods. Most people aren't going to be raised from the dead. Reincarnation requires some god-like force to be helping you out (if anything the wall is this, except first your consciousness gets merged with the rest). So without the wall the multiverse just has an ever increasing amount of souls of level 1 commoners who hang out unable to do anything? I guess eventually some kind of soul-eater monster will evolve or be spawned somewhere and just have lunch.

The intention seems to be the that the wall is inherently bad because it's something the gods forced on the mortals, but it's not like dead mortals have many options.

 

[Neanderthal]

Dead will travel to plane which their soul aligns to, become petitioners and usually eventually merge wi plane under ad&d 2nd ed rules.

 

[laclongquan]

Didnt the souls just go on to different paths as in 2nd DnD?
- If you got good deals with gods, you got taken to god's turfs.
- If you got deals with devils, you got taken by the devils.
- If you got big resonance (alignment) with planes you got reincarnated there: from Mechanus to Abyssal Plains etc..

The resonance/alignment thing ensure that you have someplace to go (reincarnation), you just lose memory/personality. The other two options ensure you have a chance of retain memory/personality, which is a kind of eternal life.

And with the long history of the Wall, I have my very big doubt that the player can take down the Wall. Because face it, what you deal with in MOTB is a curse that might affect a region surround the bearer. It might be bigger than the Immortality curse of The Nameless One, but it's no way threaten the existence of Faerun. That kind of scale of power suggest tearing down the Wall is just impossible.

 

[Neanderthal]

Wall weren't there for long.

 

[TemplarGR]

NWN2 OC wasn't "that bad", i agree. But we need what "that bad" means...

In reality it was probably a mediocre slog. Not "bad", not "good", just an average slog. The reason people reacted poorly to it was probably because the game engine and camera sucked, and the game was terribly unoptimized, so that average slog was more painful than it should be when played today on powerful computers and after lots of patches.

In the end, NWN2 OC is just passable today. It is not a must-play game. You are not losing much if you don't play it. And Mask of the Betrayer is overrated. So unless someone is a huge DnD nerd, NWN2's jankiness is too much and thus the bad reputation.

 

[Cael]

NWN2 OC wasn't "that bad", i agree. But we need what "that bad" means...

In reality it was probably a mediocre slog. Not "bad", not "good", just an average slog. The reason people reacted poorly to it was probably because the game engine and camera sucked, and the game was terribly unoptimized, so that average slog was more painful than it should be when played today on powerful computers and after lots of patches.

In the end, NWN2 OC is just passable today. It is not a must-play game. You are not losing much if you don't play it. And Mask of the Betrayer is overrated. So unless someone is a huge DnD nerd, NWN2's jankiness is too much and thus the bad reputation.

A huge DnD nerd would find MotB laughable at best. Anti-canon at worst.

 

[Fedora Master]

The OC is just your average by-the-numbers Bioware story that they've recycled since Baldur's Gate, complete with the Standard Set of Bioware Characters.
>Kooky crazy warrior -> Minsk/Khelgar
>Hyped up female rogue -> Imoen/Neeshka
>Matronly older woman -> Jaheira/Elanee
>Stick-in-the-ass paladin -> Ajantis/Casavir
and so forth.

You are talking about archetype of characters, something exist in SF/fantasy and most especially in games.
It's like you are complain about water is wet or something. yeah, it's wet. so?

And Bioware do not have ownership right on these ideas~

The way these characters are written is very typical of Bioware specifically though. Also there are more archetypes than just he ones I mentioned. Would be nice to see something else for a change.

 

[111111111]

The OC is just your average by-the-numbers Bioware story that they've recycled since Baldur's Gate, complete with the Standard Set of Bioware Characters.
>Kooky crazy warrior -> Minsk/Khelgar
>Hyped up female rogue -> Imoen/Neeshka
>Matronly older woman -> Jaheira/Elanee
>Stick-in-the-ass paladin -> Ajantis/Casavir
and so forth.

You are talking about archetype of characters, something exist in SF/fantasy and most especially in games.
It's like you are complain about water is wet or something. yeah, it's wet. so?

And Bioware do not have ownership right on these ideas~

The way these characters are written is very typical of Bioware specifically though. Also there are more archetypes than just he ones I mentioned. Would be nice to see something else for a change.

What is worse is the 'zombie infestation in a city district' plot that has been rehashed in so many fucking CRPGs that it is a permanent shitstain on the overall plot of the game. It is in Baldurs gate, NWN and even fucking POE!

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Inderesting video:

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Inderesting video:

3 hours is going to put people off from watching, should have added a timestamp for each different game's section of the review.

I've timestamped the Hoards of the Underdark segment here:



Its not very long, maybe 10-15 or so minutes & is spoiler ridden but also interesting. He even goes so far as to compare it to Planescape: Torment & suggest it's one of the closest a game has ever got to recreating the vibe of PS:T.

Food for thought on this forum...

 

[Neanderthal]

There's a lot of strange artifacts left in the OC's modules, characters, items etc. Wonder what kind of content were cut.

Fuck me dev tools are unintuitive though, powerful but bloody awkward.

 

[laclongquan]

The OC is just your average by-the-numbers Bioware story that they've recycled since Baldur's Gate, complete with the Standard Set of Bioware Characters.
>Kooky crazy warrior -> Minsk/Khelgar
>Hyped up female rogue -> Imoen/Neeshka
>Matronly older woman -> Jaheira/Elanee
>Stick-in-the-ass paladin -> Ajantis/Casavir
and so forth.

You are talking about archetype of characters, something exist in SF/fantasy and most especially in games.
It's like you are complain about water is wet or something. yeah, it's wet. so?

And Bioware do not have ownership right on these ideas~

The way these characters are written is very typical of Bioware specifically though. Also there are more archetypes than just he ones I mentioned. Would be nice to see something else for a change.

Dear lord no! That would lead to les/gay/trannie characters looking for the meaning of their existence. And force fed romance in player's face.

I have enough of amateur writers trying their "original" ideas on unsuspecting players. Gimme some archetypes any time of the game~