NWN2 OC was not bad as people make it out

[Lacrymas]

When you remove the motivation, the PC doesn't have a motivation anymore. Shocking and unexpected. I'd argue the shard in your chest only begins your journey. When you get to Neverwinter, you get caught up in other stuff and eventually the main plot does center around the KoS, but the KoS is a weak antagonist, so so much for that.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You guys actually want more motivation beyond gits to krump?

 

[fantadomat]

When you remove the motivation, the PC doesn't have a motivation anymore.

Yeah,you just removed it,why should he have it after that? Also the whole motivation is pretty stupid argument for games. People do different shit for no special reasons. Did you had some special live threatening motivation to move to germany?

 

[Lacrymas]

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Use spoiler tags pls ty

 

[rusty_shackleford]

How does the override folder work? Does it look for file names only and simply use directories as an alphabetical priority while ignoring the structure of them?

it seems this is correct, I'd suggest prefixing your override folders with something like a0, a1, ..., z9 etc., to properly order them to manually handle conflicts
edit: Just remembered xoreos has nwn2 support, they probably have this figured out. I'll go dig into that after a coffee.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

is there a way to cast spells without it being 'sticky' selection similar to IE games?
e.g., press spell hotkey, then select target

eh, seems like it works if you have no target. This is really clunky, is there a way to clear your target? There's no shortcut for it in options
Lilura

 

[rusty_shackleford]

confront thieves as member of city guard
intimidate them with "you're under arrest, come quietly or you'll die where you stand"
they respond with "we don't want any trouble" and just walk away
get chaotic point

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the amount of DC 99/need-a-key locked things is really frustrating, should have just disabled interaction with it if I'm not intended to go there yet

 

[rusty_shackleford]

to avoid missing party member plot stuff increase your party size with

rs ga_party_limit(#)

and just put them on puppet at a far follow distance

 

[rusty_shackleford]

it's actually not that bad with mods after you get to the city, might finish it if the quality doesn't nosedive
tonyk AI mod is mandatory imo

 

[Lacrymas]

If you generally like it, don't give up during the orc caves.

 

[Cael]

Getting alerts on this old ass thread made me reflect further on my beef with Obsidian's game design.

I started to mull over Baldur's Gate and why I love it so much. For one thing, I just don't appreciate being railroaded in RPGs. I guess that's the main gripe I have. I want to be able to just soak in the atmosphere and explore on my own time. Baldur's Gate allows me to do that but it also has a storyline which is deeply connected with my character. It's a real driving force. Whether it's vengeance, self-preservation or altruism: the reason for going after Sarevok can be interpreted in many ways. At the very least, there's something driving - not pushing - you forward.

In contrast, what is the motivation behind all the nonsense you have to endure in the NWN2 OC? What's driving you forward? What's your personal investment in that story? Well, there's shiny shards. One of them is lodged in your chest. I guess that's the reason why you do things in that game. You literally have a Macguffin embedded in your chest that you can't really remove without dying. That's your motivation right there. I mean, that's great, right? Why are people after you? Because of you? Nope. Because of the shard inside you. That's the only reason why things are happening to you. Hypothetically, let's just say that by some miracle the shard had been discovered in good time and subsequently removed. Now, what ties does the main character have with the plot? None. Absolutely none. You know, if this game had been designed in such a way that it is the coming of the Shadow King that is the focal point of the story - I could at least respect that. That I go through the motions because I don't want an ancient entity engulfing everything in shadow and death - myself included. Simple but reasonably effective. But nope, there always has to be a plot device holding you hostage.

MotB is in the same boat. What is your driving motivation for travelling long distances and fighting seemingly impossible odds against ancient beings? Even risk your IRL sanity in the Skein? Is it vengeance? Duty? Or is it because you're suddenly a Spirit Eater - a curse that can only be lifted when you've gone through a certain number of seemingly arbitrary obstacles? Let's just say Elminster, for some reason, finds you in the burial cavern and removes the curse - because he's a nice guy - and then teleports you out of there. Now, is there any reason whatsoever for you to investigate the story of the Betrayer and the Crusade? Any reason at all for even staying in that region? Any reason for caring about any of the shit that goes on? Would the main plot of the game really suffer in your character's absence? Or does it just get on with things? Would the story even care in the slightest if you were to go to Tethyr on vacation instead? Or would the main character of the game - Akachi - just go find another patsy? In any event, you ARE the Spirit Eater and now it's a race against the clock. Not unlike the latter half of Baldur's Gate 2, which I'm not overly fond of either. However, at least in that game you had real history with the antagonist. It wasn't just about your soul being retardedly transplanted. You wanted to defeat him for a myriad of reasons.

Baldur's Gate presented a big world for you to explore - in your own time - and when you wanted to get down to business it was perfectly clear WHAT you had to do and WHY you had to do it. Avert the crisis on the Sword Coast, open up the city of Baldur's Gate and defeat Sarevok. For whatever reason. It was up to you. Now, imagine if Baldur's Gate had only been Candlekeep - Beregost - Nashkel (Mines) - Bandit Camp - Cloakwood - Baldur's Gate - Candlekeep Redux - Bhaal Temple. In that order. And the reason for you going through all of that is because you're afflicted with acute magic AIDS and only Sarevok has the cure. Will you make it in time? #MissedOpportunities.

Son, the game literally tells you something along the lines of: Well, I have no idea, so let's go to Nashkel and investigate the rumoured iron problem. Maybe we will turn up something.

If Nashkel had nothing to do with Sarevok, you literally have no reason to go after the guy. By your own definition, BG is nothing but a string of plot devices.

 

[Dux]

You get hints that something is going on in Nashkel and it would perhaps be a good idea to investigate. If only to kill time or make money.

However, that's not why you're on the road in the first place. As you step outside Candlekeep you're ambushed by Sarevok and your foster father sacrifices himself so that you can escape. THEN things start to unravel. You're being hunted by your assailant, as you come to find out in Beregost. You don't even know why and there's no-one to guide you. All the while you're hearing about the iron crisis and the bandit infestation. Again, you don't really know why it's happening or if it is any way connected with previous events. Nonetheless, it's standard stuff for a budding adventurer: a theme which the game strongly hints at. Making your fortune on the Sword Coast. The iron crisis is a trail of breadcrumbs and there is some contrivance, I'll admit; however, at the end of the day the story is about you and the inevitable confrontation with Sarevok. You actually have a reason to go after the guy and he has a reason to go after you. It's not immediately apparent, though, which is why you're basically directionless in the beginning of the game. That's where Nashkel comes in, because it's a game at the end of the day and BioWare wanted to nudge you in the right direction.

 

[Shadenuat]

One thing I wish developers would take from NWN2 is its over the screen Spellbook interface with a row per level and icon for every memorized spell. It is better than IE bar, ToEE and PST radial menu, or anything else done yet for isometric D&D game.

 

[Cael]

You get hints that something is going on in Nashkel and it would perhaps be a good idea to investigate. If only to kill time or make money.

However, that's not why you're on the road in the first place. As you step outside Candlekeep you're ambushed by Sarevok and your foster father sacrifices himself so that you can escape. THEN things start to unravel. You're being hunted by your assailant, as you come to find out in Beregost. You don't even know why and there's no-one to guide you. All the while you're hearing about the iron crisis and the bandit infestation. Again, you don't really know why it's happening or if it is any way connected with previous events. Nonetheless, it's standard stuff for a budding adventurer: a theme which the game strongly hints at. Making your fortune on the Sword Coast. The iron crisis is a trail of breadcrumbs and there is some contrivance, I'll admit; however, at the end of the day the story is about you and the inevitable confrontation with Sarevok. You actually have a reason to go after the guy and he has a reason to go after you. It's not immediately apparent, though, which is why you're basically directionless in the beginning of the game. That's where Nashkel comes in, because it's a game at the end of the day and BioWare wanted to nudge you in the right direction.

And if Gorion fell down and broke his neck walking down the library steps, you won't be on the adventure at all. How is that different to having someone magic the shard out of you that you claim is a big no-no in NWN2?

 

[Dux]

Sarevok would've come for you regardless and you'd probably be deader than shit. Or maybe the taint of Bhaal would've seen you cast out of Candlekeep pretty damn quickly, especially without Gorion's influence. Who knows what would've happened next. The fact is that the main character of Baldur's Gate never could escape his fate no matter what he did, while there are clear loopholes in both NWN2 and MotB. Take out the shard and you're just another swamp farmer. Take away the Spirit Eater curse and there's nothing compelling you to solve whatever is happening in Rashemen - apart from curiosity, I guess. Okku wouldn't give a shit about you. Nobody would, quite honestly. You could charter a ship up to the Sword Coast and nothing would really change.

Can you say the same for Baldur's Gate?

However, the implications of MotB's narrative are far more nebulous than NWN2's so it's more of a philosophical question. It's because of divine intervention and meddling, which brings in providence, destiny and all that shit. I'm not saying MotB is as cheap as NWN2, far from it, but I don't feel any real urgency or agency playing that game if I were to disregard the Spirit Eater aspect.

 

[Cael]

Sarevok would've come for you regardless and you'd probably be deader than shit. Or maybe the taint of Bhaal would've seen you cast out of Candlekeep pretty damn quickly, especially without Gorion's influence. Who knows what would've happened next. The fact is that the main character of Baldur's Gate never could escape his fate no matter what he did, while there are clear loopholes in both NWN2 and MotB. Take out the shard and you're just another swamp farmer. Take away the Spirit Eater curse and there's nothing compelling you to solve whatever is happening in Rashemen - apart from curiosity, I guess. Okku wouldn't give a shit about you. Nobody would, quite honestly. You could charter a ship up to the Sword Coast and nothing would really change.

Can you say the same for Baldur's Gate?

However, the implications of MotB's narrative are far more nebulous than NWN2's so it's more of a philosophical question. It's because of divine intervention and meddling, which brings in providence, destiny and all that shit. I'm not saying MotB is as cheap as NWN2, far from it, but I don't feel any real urgency or agency playing that game if I were to disregard the Spirit Eater aspect.

If you disregard the central part of the game, of course there is no motivation for the PC. What if you were not Bhaalspawn, just some random baby of a priestess of Bhaal that Gorion found? Sarevok would not have come after you, and you would have no motivation to do anything. What if you were like Imoen, whom nobody knew was a Bhaalspawn until BG2? Not even Sarevok suspected. Opps! No motivation.

You make excuses for one, but insist that the same type of contrivance is bad for another.

 

[Dux]

The Bhaalspawn theme is absolutely central to the entire series. It envelopes everything. Take away the Bhaalspawn aspect and there's nothing. There's no game. Sarevok would never have come and the main character would do whatever. Although, if the game actually did it like that, suggesting that you were a progeny of a dead god only to reveal that it was just a mistake: that would be pretty damn cool. I digress. The point that Baldur's Gate seems to make is that the Bhaalspawn war is basically inevitable, just like Bhaal intended. It's in the blood.

Playing NWN2 you're continually hounded that you need to do this and that. Not because it's necessarily the right or wrong thing to do. Or that it has anything to do with your character's feelings. It's because of a Macguffin - or Macguffins. Those Macguffins are integral - as it turns out - in the grander scheme of things. But why couldn't Obsidian just put you in the midst of this brewing conflict in Neverwinter and let you decide your own role in it? Whether it's revenge or duty. Baldur's Gate is about providence, let's be honest, so it can be quite overbearing at times. Nevertheless, there was no reason for the shard contrivance. None. It's basically just a cheap method to keep the player in line. It's sub-standard storytelling, in my opinion, but it's not wrong. It's just what it is. I just believe Obsidian could have done so much better with NWN2.

For example, let's say some people torches the swamp village. Cliché as fuck but it could like Conan the Barbarian, at least initially. Conan wanted revenge but eventually it all becomes larger than himself and he has to readjust. You're hitting the road because you're basically homeless but you want revenge or justice - which is the driving force. Then you come across some shards but you don't know what they represent. Then shit hits the fan and you eventually come into contact with the people who slaughtered your friends - because they want the shards. The shards' significance becomes more important to you because they are now connected with your own motivations of finding the killers. They're not embedded into you but they connect you to the marauders nonetheless. Then the Shadow War begins and all of a sudden the bigger picture comes into view and the shards are revealed to be a source of power against the invasion. Etcetera. It's not perfect by any means but it would be better, in my opinion.

Listen, I'm not going to spam this thread anymore because arguing about something so subjective is pretty pointless. I'm never going to prove anything because there's nothing to prove. It's just an opinion - not science. It's just how I feel about these games.

 

[biggestboss]

Haven't read through this thread yet but I do want to mention that I love that you are allowed to shit on that bitch Bevil throughout the entire prologue through dialogue and other means.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Listen, I'm not going to spam this thread anymore because arguing about something so subjective is pretty pointless.

Bullshit, this is the Codex. Knock yourself out.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the trial questline was pretty good
anyone know who wrote it?

Spoiler

 

[Roguey]

the trial questline was pretty good
anyone know who wrote it?

Fenstermaker and Husges.

 

[anvi]

the trial questline was pretty good
anyone know who wrote it?

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Feels like an entirely different team worked on the game after reaching the city compared to before it.
Going to revise my opinion on the OC -- not bad at all if you can stomach the first handful of hours.