NWN2 OC was not bad as people make it out

[Tigranes]

.....................

 

[Average Manatee]

In one of his various interviews Josh said Obsidian was really worried about getting NWN2 to hit the 30 hour mark, and it took them by surprise during their complete playthrough playtests how it ended up twice that. It's hard to estimate how long something's going to be as you're making it, so they always err on the side of too much.

That's interesting. Anyone know more about this?

Do devs just shoot from the hip at playtimes? It seems like it would be fairly easy to make a spreadsheet listing stuff like "Area X, 10 rooms 4 battles 9 chests, est time 15-30 mins". Obviously a lot harder to do for non-combat areas with lots of dialog and backtracking, but you'd have a good estimate for most of the game.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

oh nwn2 oc is indeed miles better than PoE in everything...

I agree with that.

...but the combat department.

Actually, as NWN2 OC gave xp for kills, the combat was infinitely better than PoE as both are shit tier RTwP.

I don't think that's a "hot take" at all. NWN2 OC at least had actual characters and dialog that were memorable.

and speaking of nwn2 oc's villains i'd take that clusterfuck any day over the x-treme blandness and generic-ness of poe's antagonist jeeeeezuhs.

The detective/defense part was the highlight of the OC for me.

 

[Vlajdermen]

Camera & engine issues aside, it's a game that would've been MUCH better by simply making it shorter. More than the orc caves, you have those bullshit "clown-car houses" where it's a tiny house on the outside, but inside there are 400 rooms filled with bandits/guards/Githyanki... there's no encounter design or care, they are just thrown around to waste everyone's time.

It's the same shit that bothered me in Pillars of Eternity, this crazy need to make your 40hs RPG last 60hs by adding a shitton of filler content.

Absolutely. Condense NWN2 down to about half the size and with a bit more of the saved development time invested in those kept areas and it would be a significantly better game.

At a certain point the "badness" of a game has little to do with how bad it is in absolute terms. People enjoy bad movies all the time, and similarly enjoy games that aren't objectively great but are relaxing and easy to play. What makes a bad game truly awful is being too long with nothing memorable.

Couldn't agree more. So many devs these days keep rambling "muh playtime, muh size, muh quantity" that they either don't know or don't care about the quality of the stuff that's already there. Take a look at why Gothic 2 is better than Elex (or more to the point, better than Morrowind) and you'll see what I mean.

I blame hacky mainstream gaming sites like Gamespot that give filth like fo4 high praise because "teh warld iz beeg".

 

[eggdogg]

Every couple of years I do a playthrough and I always have fun. For me its the most engaging form of D&D on the computer. Lots of character builds and options. The dwarf is a great companion. The game is full of flaws but it also has a self awareness to it. Camera is bad but you get used it to after a bit. Its one of the few games (for me) that has gotten better over the years.

 

[Roguey]

I blame hacky mainstream gaming sites like Gamespot that give filth like fo4 high praise because "teh warld iz beeg".

It's entirely for the players' sake.

 

[DeepOcean]

I'm very fond of the NWN 2 OC, it reminded me of the first DnD adventure of my own making I tried to DM when I was 12 years old... man, good times.

 

[vivec]

I'm very fond of the NWN 2 OC, it reminded me of the first DnD adventure of my own making I tried to DM when I was 12 years old... man, good times.

Which is exactly what it is. It is literally designed with a brain of a 12 yo. Every enemy is rogues and/or undead.

 

[vivec]

Also, let me be clear. I don't think the plot of the NWN2 or its mechanics is at fault. Because they aren't. It's the f*cking terrible design of the dungeons and the encounters which is amateurish. It takes the patience of a Dalai Lama to go through it.

 

[DeepOcean]

The combat encounters are unadulterated shit but I don't think the story is anything decent too:
NWN 2 OC suffers from the worst case of LOL, it's DnD!
You start as a peasant and somehow is special, why? ... LOL, it's DnD!
You need to go to the fisher men city and then help peasant lady fighting lizard men.
Who are those lizard men?... LOL, it's DnD!
Why the lizard men are attacking?... LOL, it's DnD!
You have this druid that has the personality of a stock druid and this peasant woman that has the personality of a stock peasant woman, why? ... LOL, it's DnD!
You need to get to one of the biggest cities on the North but somehow, you need to go through an orc infested cave and kill an entire orc nation, why? I dunno, big cities aren't supposedly to have multiple entries? Why?... LOL, it's DnD!
You are attacked by extraplanar dudes, who are they and what they want? ...LOL, it's DnD!
You go on a trial and on the end of it, you are forced no matter what, even if proved innocent on a duel with some bad guy you barely know. Why? Is Never Winter judicial system insane?... LOL, it's Bioware!

 

[aweigh]

is that a limerick

 

[Lacrymas]

Well, you aren't really special, you just have a piece of the Sword of Gith inside you, so it's logical for the Githyanki to come to you, seeing as it is a holy relic. The lizardmen are attacking because the swamp is being digested by the Kind of Shadows, something that has been repeatedly stated and even shown, and they can't go near it anymore. You don't go through the orc caves to get to Neverwinter, you have to "prove yourself" to either the Thieves of Amn or the Knights of the Nine to be allowed into Blacklake, but it's completely unnecessary, nothing would be lost if the entire orc cave thing was deleted. There's also the bonus that you'll not run into Casavir and Grobnar if they do that. The orc caves really do feel like someone at Obs thought they had to extend the playtime, a lot of the OC feels like that. Had they not done a lot of the unnecessary filler, the OC could've been very good, more time to polish and think through the other areas.

 

[DeepOcean]

Jesus, its been a long time an I forgot most of the story of NWN 2 but anyway, most of NWN 2 oc is a waste of time of needless complications.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

It didn't really matter what I did in that game nor why I was doing it, my emotion throughout was 1/10 on the give-a-fuck-a-meter. Literally the only decent part of the game was building my own character, and luckily that aspect was consistently an aspect which occurred throughout. cRPGs implementation of 3rd ed rules of D&D are a bit like the last couple of season of Dr.Who - best central character, worst everything else. IWD2, the 'worst' (? weirdest? clunkiest? oddest? whatever the right word is) of the IE games, the horrors of Homlet in ToEE, and the two desperately lacking NWN OCs. The best full game to ever use 3rd ed was some bastardised non-official version used by some reclusive French Clevogealike. You have to go looking for specific expansions and modules to even get something 'normal'.

 

[anvi]

People thought it was bad? I thought NWN1 was the OC people didn't like? I actually got bored of NWN2 OC near the end and just quit but I figured that was just me. I do that a lot. I think NWN2 OC would be a LOT more fun if it was played on a high difficulty where friendly fire mattered. Whatever setting I chose, the friendly fire hardly did any damage so it was really boring. You just go to a battle and click all the massive fireballs, ice storms, cones of cold, blast living fuck out of everything. Rest. Repeat.

 

[Karwelas]

I liked the keep, the construct and the spider

I mean how can you not like the spider?

It literally knits you fucking cloak. Best spider pet ever.

Also M. devil was pretty cool guy for a devil. I totally would drink with him.

Meming aside: I quite like NWN 2 OC, but I must agree - it is prolonged by shitty filler features and weakass sections with orcs in first act, also little bit shitty SUPER TWISTS during plot. Seriously, you could you get Garus to be main villain, because he was quite charismatic bastard for what he was during game and settle with it. There was no need for SHADOWZORD.

I'm also surprised that nobody mentioned really few great moments from this OC - Luskan trial with that bitch name I forgot is probably one of best Charisma/Social skills use in any D&D game (provoking her to undermine herself by being sarcastic twat is probably the best route... fuck, if you are bard and have big enough perform, you can do it RHYMING), Ammon Jerro was quite fun part of the game, the bard contest in the castle district.

 

[Neanderthal]

I've always thought o NWN2 OC as one o them big arse modern fantasy novels where they throw walls o text at you and hope some of em stick, and end up being utterly forgettable. Crosses arms under tits and pulls on braid thing.

MotB in contrast was like a Howard short story, laser focused with every scene invaluable an exciting.

I think devs need to start thinking about moment to moment gameplay, what rhythm they want, when they want to ramp up shit, and how they devalue stuff when they pour it on like manure on a field. Give more gameplay options, make the world more lively, and stop wi cheap, nasty use o padding like combat an trash loot.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Actually, as NWN2 OC gave xp for kills, the combat was infinitely better than PoE as both are shit tier RTwP.

I keep forgetting about that.
No combat xp, because we couldn't have the players actually have a purpose in fighting all our trash mobs besides seeing the next amazing narrative our quality writers shat out. That would be "degenerate". Or god forbid... fun.

 

[Starwars]

The NWN2 OC is also one of the most maddening examples of games forcing companions on you.

No game, I don't want Bishop on my team. I don't trust that guy. No Duncan, don't force him on me, NOOOOOOOOO!

And then he betrays you in the end of course and you just sit there going... goddamnit game, goddamnit.

EDIT: And a nice example of a game where you can actually break the story completely in character creation if you choose an older age.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Actually, as NWN2 OC gave xp for kills, the combat was infinitely better than PoE as both are shit tier RTwP.

I keep forgetting about that.
No combat xp, because we couldn't have the players actually have a purpose in fighting all our trash mobs besides seeing the next amazing narrative our quality writers shat out. That would be "degenerate". Or god forbid... fun.

On one hand there is shit, but some money is hidden in it. As you have to wade through the shit anyway...the money is nice.

On the other hand you have only shit with no chances of money in it. You have to wade through the shit and you better enjoy it, otherwise you are a degenerate.

 

[Lacrymas]

You do get xp for combat in PoE.......................... It's called "filling the bestiary", this is the hundredth time I say this. We got excited by "no xp for combat" because we thought it would reduce trash mobs and will give ways around some fights, like skills checks or choices. Turns out we are naive and we got the most trash-mob filled game in existence. I also vaguely remember the orcs not giving that much xp, so it's doubly shitty. The NWN2 OC also suffers from too many plot threads that don't connect very well and the problem is the King of Shadows. It's a stupid antagonist that hogs too much of the third act, if it wasn't there the other things would make more sense and be connected better. As it stands now, the Luskan plotline simply exists and it culminates in the trial, but for what? What narrative purpose does it serve? Some other, more interesting, plot threads were also dropped, like Qara's insane power level that spooked Sand. It feels like the game could've had a much more character-focused narrative, like a political struggle with Luskan, but the KoS ruins it and it gobbled up too much development time.

 

[Roguey]

Turns out we are naive and we got the most trash-mob filled game in existence.

PoE isn't literally Dragon Age: Origins.

 

[FeelTheRads]

We got excited by "no xp for combat" because we thought it would reduce trash mobs and will give ways around some fights, like skills checks or choices.

The ONLY reason there was no xp for combat is that it makes it easier to balance. That's it.
Expecting the game to have no trash combat was lol

 

[Lacrymas]

There is xp for combat, so so much for that. It's impossible to have no trash combat, but it could've been less than there is. I did forget about DA:O in the trash mob category, but that's because I think only the Deep Roads and the Fade really ramped up the trashiness to the extreme. Everything else suffered from too few enemy types in general, but I don't think it beats PoE in terms of sheer quantity of pointless fights.

 

[ilitarist]

There is xp for combat, so so much for that. It's impossible to have no trash combat...

Have you played Divinity Original Sin 2? Blackguards? Grimoire?