Interview Oblivion interview at Games.net

[kris]

Only thing I could agree with Tintin on was that radiant AI will make the world more interesting. Now as mentioned, if the dialoge is as uninteresting as the last then that is just a little immersement factor that is not enoguh to convince me.

Radiant AI tough can't give the NPCs personality, it can only give them some purpose.

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

My favourite argument. We heard it so many times before: giev FOBOS teh chance! U can't say it's shit because u didn't play teh gaem yet!!!!
Riiight.

Personally, that's my favorite argument of the arrogant elitists (people like Rosh who cry "FOPOS" non-stop at NMA to every argument, using it in any way possible no matter how stupid or irrelevent). FOBOS was such a clear money grab from a company in it's dying breath to pump out a turd of a game in the least amount of time to get revenue, anyone who thought otherwise at any point or said it had any merit or promise whatsoever is a gullible idiot.

I'm sure you won't agree, but this is quite the different scenario. A company who has plenty of resources to take their time and make a good game, and the possiblity of maturity and advancement as a designer since Morrowind.

The exclusion of "xbows and mounted combat" and the addition of a "quest compass" (or whatever other dumbing down points you have) is not enough for me to know they're dumbing the game down (as opposed to quality over quantity, and in the case of the compass, cut tedium in the large world instead of holding your hand). I don't know how well they've implimented bows to justify the exclusion of crossbows, I don't know how well they've implimented combat this time around as opposed to the crapfest in morrowind. I don't know how well they've implimented the finishing of quests in as different ways in as many cases as possible as they've said they're aiming for. Or how well they've improved stealth, dialogue, or magic.

I must be one stupid mother fucker to miss all of the things in the interviews and previews to see how this game will surely be a downgrade from Morrowind. But really, I am a fucking idiot, so, I guess it's not surprising. The only negative thing that's really hit me is that Todd isn't the best choice for PR (at least, to codex standards, and my own, he seems fine for the masses).

 

[mechafox]

I'm assuming that since Oblivion will obviously suck so badly because the gameplay will be complete shit means that there is another game out there that has really wicked gameplay? Do share this game. I would like to know of the greatness. Because obviously I'm living under a rock, here.

I'm serious. Share this game of great gameplay. I would like to play it.

 

[Claw]

Syndicate. Now crawl back into the darkness you came from.

 

[bryce777]

I'm assuming that since Oblivion will obviously suck so badly because the gameplay will be complete shit means that there is another game out there that has really wicked gameplay? Do share this game. I would like to know of the greatness. Because obviously I'm living under a rock, here.

I'm serious. Share this game of great gameplay. I would like to play it.

Fallout, baldur's gate II, about 75 other rpgs.

As for other big budget socalled RPGs, there are none in the works so there can be no comparison, but this one will still almost undoubtedly suck.

 

[Atrokkus]

Fallout (1,2), PS:Torment, Baldur's Gate 2, Arcanum, Deus Ex, Gothic - now those are golden standarts of RPG gameplay.
It's about time to know (play) them, if you consider yourself an RPG fan.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Missed this post somehow:

Personally, that's my favorite argument of the arrogant elitists (people like Rosh who cry "FOPOS" non-stop at NMA to every argument, using it in any way possible no matter how stupid or irrelevent). FOBOS was such a clear money grab from a company in it's dying breath to pump out a turd of a game in the least amount of time to get revenue, anyone who thought otherwise at any point or said it had any merit or promise whatsoever is a gullible idiot.

It was clear to you, but not to many people who claimed that you can't bash a game that's not even out yet and that we should give it a chance, which is what Tintin said about Oblivion. The only difference is now you agree with him, while it's clear that the gameplay is being dumbed down and replaced with graphics and special affects.

I'm sure you won't agree, but this is quite the different scenario. A company who has plenty of resources to take their time and make a good game

Plenty doesn't mean infinite.

From Todd's interview:
The game is shorter. Why? First, because "the enhanced graphics will require more time" while the development time and budget remained the same. Second, because "statistically gamers prefer shorter games and often do not finish more involved titles"

"So we trade having several types of ranged combat done in an average way, and get bows done in a grand way." (Grand means special effects: "You feel the string draw, arrows arc properly, bounce realistically, and stick deep into the right materials")

I must be one stupid mother fucker to miss all of the things in the interviews and previews to see how this game will surely be a downgrade from Morrowind. But really, I am a fucking idiot, so, I guess it's not surprising. The only negative thing that's really hit me is that Todd isn't the best choice for PR (at least, to codex standards, and my own, he seems fine for the masses).

The masses are known for low standards, as for missing stuff, here is something for you:

The game is shorter. Why? First, because "the enhanced graphics will require more time" while the development time and budget remained the same. Second, because "statistically gamers prefer shorter games and often do not finish more involved titles"

This quote is my favourite for obvious reasons. Sounds very promising

We just need to do a better job of clarifying and showing the player what to do to progress in the game

Success in activities like picking locks, mixing potions, and forging armor will no longer be determined by dice-roll, each of these activities will be a separate mini-game which will be completed through skill and luck

The combat will be every bit as exciting as it is in a first-person shooter. Contrary to the RPG convention, the outcome of combat will not be decided by virtual dice rolls

the timing of it becomes a key strategy in fighting.

...become the head of every faction all during the course of one game...

The majority of the game, like all the enemies and treasure, randomize themselves based on your character, so even though you have this huge world, you'll be doing things that feel right for your character. I know that's hard to really imagine without playing it, but it's that balance between going to a city, getting a quest, finding the dungeon, hacking through it, and returning to town. That's a key RPG game experience that sounds simple -- but one that we wanted to make perfect.

I think you can look at the changes we made from Daggerfall to Morrowind and expect a similar jump from Morrowind to Oblivion.

This one is very ironic for those who had a chance to play both Daggerfall and Morrowind.

 

[Shevek]

Wow, I didnt think Bethesda would sink far lower after Morrowind (since it sold so well and recieved so much critical acclaim) but, heh, I guess I was wrong. So long as people keep propagating the myth that stats and dice rolls are not necessary in rpgs, however, this will allow others to continue to turn the genre into little more than an industry buzzword.

 

[Vykromond]

How is a shorter game a dumbed-down game?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not how, why. "because statistically gamers prefer shorter games and often do not finish MORE INVOLVED titles"

Translation: deep & involved = boring & bad. Fast action & mini-games = awesome & entertaining.

 

[Tintin]

Stats are neccessary, Morrowind dice rolls are not. It's more fun to hit the enemy and have stats determine only how much damage you actually do (as in Oblivion)

Translation: deep & involved = boring & bad. Fast action & mini-games = awesome & entertaining.

\

Actually now, what he meant was more like "long, boring, where the player has to get involved in = bad & boring" "easy to get into, and doesn't take forever to complete = awesome and entertaining"

He doesn't mean involved as in plots, he means the level of commitment the player must give to the game.

Actually, I myself am a little disappointed by that too, but, oh well.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

Arcanum had pre-determined attack damage, and that was boring (trust me).

 

[Vault Dweller]

Stats are neccessary, Morrowind dice rolls are not. It's more fun to hit the enemy and have stats determine only how much damage you actually do (as in Oblivion)

Why bother having stats then? The harder you click, the more damage you cause! Teh revolushun in RPGs!

Actually now, what he meant was more like "long, boring, where the player has to get involved in = bad & boring"

And players getting involved in is wrong because...?

"easy to get into, and doesn't take forever to complete = awesome and entertaining"

Easy to get into when massmarket is involved usually means simplified aka dumbed down.

He doesn't mean involved as in plots, he means the level of commitment the player must give to the game.

Don't you think that the level of commitment depends entirely on gameplay?

Actually, I myself am a little disappointed by that too, but, oh well.

There you go, that's the first step toward enlightenment

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Oh, for pete's sake. How many times do I have to repeat myself. There are PLENTY of die rolls against stats in Oblivion. We took out the "to hit" roll and changed it so that instead of missing at close range, the amount of damage you might do changes depending on your stats.

And how many times do I have to reiterate that there are PLENTY of people working on other things besides the graphics and special effects? A tremendous amount of effort has gone in to Oblivion's AI and game systems, not to mention the quests, dialogue and gameplay. We are NOT sacrificing graphics for game play. In fact, in the 3 years I've been working on Oblivion, for example, I haven't written a single line of graphics related code, and the same goes for several other programmers here. There are two reasons people assume we're emphasizing graphics over game play. 1, because the graphics look really good and the screenshots are the most obvious facet of the game that's been revealed, and 2, because we haven't revealed everything about the game yet, and people either ignore, downplay, or don't know about the non-graphical features we HAVE revealed.

 

[Ap_Jolly]

You have to go back in time and fix Morrowind before anyone here will believe your lies, mister! FALLOUT 3 WILL BE MORROWIND WITH GUNS!!!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Oh, for pete's sake. How many times do I have to repeat myself. There are PLENTY of die rolls against stats in Oblivion.

Who said there aren't?

And how many times do I have to reiterate that there are PLENTY of people working on other things besides the graphics and special effects?

There are OTHER things besides the graphics and special effects? Does Todd know? I heard that the magic system is totally awesome though :wink:

There are two reasons people assume we're emphasizing graphics over game play. 1, because the graphics look really good and the screenshots are the most obvious facet of the game that's been revealed, and 2, because we haven't revealed everything about the game yet, and people either ignore, downplay, or don't know about the non-graphical features we HAVE revealed.

Uh, no. The main reason why people assume that is because that's what Todd stated repeatedly in the past. And because MW's graphics have replaced a large portion of DF's gameplay.

 

[Tintin]

Why bother having stats then? The harder you click, the more damage you cause! Teh revolushun in RPGs!

I don't get people sometimes. The number one negative factor of MW's combat was the fact that you could swing, and your weapon would go right through the enemy, and basically that's all you did for the length of the fight. They fixed it. We should celebrate. Stats are there to determine how much damage you do. If your stats are crap, you'll end up making little difference in your fight and get destroyed. If you have good stats, you'll kill them. If they didn't have stats, you would just be equally as strong with no difference. In reality, if you punch someone, your strength determines how much they are hurt. If you're not strong, does your hand go through the enemy? No. And so they fixed it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why bother having stats then? The harder you click, the more damage you cause! Teh revolushun in RPGs!

I don't get people sometimes. The number one negative factor of MW's combat was the fact that you could swing, and your weapon would go right through the enemy, and basically that's all you did for the length of the fight. They fixed it. We should celebrate.

And the #1 complaint about PST was that there was too reading. And that Fallout was turn-based. They fixed that in FOBOS. Yay!!!

Stats are there to determine how much damage you do.

That's all? One stat called Teh D4M4G3!?

In reality, if you punch someone, your strength determines how much they are hurt.

In reality, you may miss if you are unskilled.

 

[Tintin]

In reality, you may miss if you are unskilled.

And in Oblivion, you may miss if you are unskilled. You can make your opponent miss if you are skilled. In Oblivion, however, your weapon does not magically fly through the opponents body if you are unskilled.

 

[Atrokkus]

Why bother having stats then? The harder you click, the more damage you cause! Teh revolushun in RPGs!

No, it was like that in Morrwind. And it was because the thing you're now proposing: pure stat-based combat. See, Morrowind and Oblivion are *FULL REAL TIME* and semi-FIRST PERSON! Purely stat-based combat like in classic rpgs just doesn't work with full real time action, alright? And Bethesda forgot about it in Morrowind, and teh result was fights where in order to succeed you had to literally rape your mouse to death.
So, your actual complaint about Oblivion is that it's FULL-REAL-TIME ACTION_RPG, the Oblivion combat system is alright, it's just you.
That's your business what you like or do not. Me, I lov e both concepts, just as long as the game itself is good.

 

[bryce777]

Damn, there are lots of things that sounded bad, but when you line them all up like this they may as well call it supermario oblivion.

As for not finishing, statistically if a game fucking sucks you never finish it no matter the length but if it's good you'll play it for hundreds of hours.

 

[Claw]

In reality, you may miss if you are unskilled.

Don't be silly. That may be true for archery, but give me a sword or an axe and a target that doesn't dodge or block my attack, and I'll hit. Dodging and blocking should be something the opponent does, and stats can be tied into that nicely.

I liked how Gothic did it by having an unskilled character hold a weapon with two hands and only being able to make a single swing followed by a delay - to regain balance, or whatever. I felt that was a better display of lacking skill than missing a target repeatedly.

 

[triCritical]

We took out the "to hit" roll and changed it so that instead of missing at close range, the amount of damage you might do changes depending on your stats.

This is like removing then RPG from RPG. I mean nothing speaks RPG like bringing a giant claymore above your head sweeping it across to decapitate your opponent and then missing them! I don't understand why you can't miss at close range? Did the marketing department find that XBOX gamers would grow impatient, if there subpar controllers did not hit every time? Keep in mind it will be blockbuster buying their copies, so its not like it would show in loss of sales.

But on a serious note, it seems like it would totally effect the balance of a game. If the longer you hold down the mouse button is still in the game, then without missing, it makes sense to hold the mouse button as long as possible to always do the maximum damage.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

We took out the "to hit" roll and changed it so that instead of missing at close range, the amount of damage you might do changes depending on your stats.

This is like removing then RPG from RPG. I mean nothing speaks RPG like bringing a giant claymore above your head sweeping it across to decapitate your opponent and then missing them! I don't understand why you can't miss at close range? Did the marketing department find that XBOX gamers would grow impatient, if there subpar controllers did not hit every time? Keep in mind it will be blockbuster buying their copies, so its not like it would show in loss of sales.

But on a serious note, it seems like it would totally effect the balance of a game. If the longer you hold down the mouse button is still in the game, then without missing, it makes sense to hold the mouse button as long as possible to always do the maximum damage.

When you hold the attack button for longer than a click, you do a "power attack", which can indeed do more damage, and at higher levels have some pretty cool skill perks associated with them. However, they are slower to perform, leaving you vulnerable, and they consume a large amount of fatigue, which means you'll do less damage on your next attack.

So you really have to balance normal attacks, active blocking and power attacks, so you can keep your fatigue level up and thus be able to do the most amount of damage to an opponent.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Purely stat-based combat like in classic rpgs just doesn't work with full real time action, alright?

Is that a fact? Care to explain why?

And Bethesda forgot about it in Morrowind, and teh result was fights where in order to succeed you had to literally rape your mouse to death.

Bad design of a concept doesn't mean that the concept itself is fucked

So, your actual complaint about Oblivion is that it's FULL-REAL-TIME ACTION_RPG, the Oblivion combat system is alright, it's just you.

Thank God you clarified that for me. D2 was also a FULL_REAL_TIME_HAWT_NON-STOP_AKSHUN_ RPG, and it was stat-based and without any mouse raping side-effects.

That's your business what you like or do not. Me, I lov e both concepts, just as long as the game itself is good.

I enjoy playing an FPS every now and then, but when I'm playing an RPG I prefer and expect to actually play an RPG. Weird, eh?